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Replying To munsterchamps: "if tipp and waterford will be back stronger next year and cork also with a new manager is it a possability that clare may not get out of munster next year." Of course there is, Munster is a hugely competitive even Limerick could struggle too if they had an off day or bad start.
it is very hard to peak every day & manage the mental tiredness in Clare we never got to pitch necessary after the Munster Final.
Limerick had a more in-depth panel also more experienced more sq. could manage it
If every Managers ambition is not to win the Munster Final then they are not worth the wages so anything can happen next year.
clooney (Clare) - Posts: 960 - 21/07/2022 13:55:59
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Replying To tiobraid: "We will agree to differ on this one. I undertand though where your points are coming from.
But can you go to 1min 20 seconds into this youtube video and tell me was this the score of the championship - at least up to Hegartys goal last Sunday? He demonstrated a lot more than loose hurling in this..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHdhqGzp2Wk" 100% he did and it was a fantastic score. He just needs to do it more than once a year.
Let's move on as you said. I think he's an incredible hurler as I've said numerous times today.
daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 21/07/2022 14:01:15
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Replying To Oldtourman: "Nil focal ar bith le rath agam air gheall an fear sin. Silim go bfuil se, cosuil leis na duine go leir, den 'Tribes' ag feachaint amach go dti an Cluich Mor san Domnach seo ciuin. Ta an Katsar fear an- cluise, an cneasta ar fad. Nil droc cnamh ar a chorp." An ceart ar fad agat, a dhuine chóir! Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile!
baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 21/07/2022 14:06:27
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Replying To tiobraid: "Its hard to see Tipp getting close to Clare next year, never mind Limerick so getting out of Munster doesnt look likely for Tipp anyway" I would disagree. I see a big bounce in Tipp. I see Cahill year one being his most successful year. He'll trim down the squad and get them really fit. Hunger will be enormous after this year and I see huge buy in from the players. He'll know early enough the 35 lads he wants to build with. I see some retirements, some willing some not. I fancy Tipp and Limerick to come out next year (albeit very early days) and 1 from the others. I think cahill might have an immediate effect on a group that wears thin very quickly.
daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 21/07/2022 14:07:42
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Replying To daveboy: "I would disagree. I see a big bounce in Tipp. I see Cahill year one being his most successful year. He'll trim down the squad and get them really fit. Hunger will be enormous after this year and I see huge buy in from the players. He'll know early enough the 35 lads he wants to build with. I see some retirements, some willing some not. I fancy Tipp and Limerick to come out next year (albeit very early days) and 1 from the others. I think cahill might have an immediate effect on a group that wears thin very quickly." agreed i see a huge improvement in tipp next year look what he did in 2020 with waterford carrying them all the way to the all ireland final after been beaten in the previous 8 round robin matches in 18 and 19......id be looking at limerick tipp and a toss up between cork waterford and clare for the 3rd remaining spot.
munsterchamps (Limerick) - Posts: 1130 - 21/07/2022 14:37:44
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Replying To daveboy: "I would disagree. I see a big bounce in Tipp. I see Cahill year one being his most successful year. He'll trim down the squad and get them really fit. Hunger will be enormous after this year and I see huge buy in from the players. He'll know early enough the 35 lads he wants to build with. I see some retirements, some willing some not. I fancy Tipp and Limerick to come out next year (albeit very early days) and 1 from the others. I think cahill might have an immediate effect on a group that wears thin very quickly." I think Cahills management style suits less games. He seems to drive lads hard from the get go. A bit like Davy Fitzgerald. Week on week it's hard to maintain his pressing style at championship intensity. It suited u20s who only had to play 5 games to win an u20 AI. And during the covid years there were alot less championship games too. There will be buy in and a bounce for sure. But alot of those Tipp u20 players haven't made the step up to Senior standard and some probably never will. And his style of play won't suit Bubbles. Likely won't suit Callinan or Forde either. Or Noel Mcgrath. Barrett plays that way anyway so would probably make a good captain.
Hard to know how it will go. Alot of the Senior Tipp lads are used to a completely different style of play and set up. A more traditional set up. One that requires alot less running. And alot of the newer lads frankly just haven't looked good enough. I think it will be harder for him going into the Tipp job than it was with Waterford, whose players were used to a more total style of hurling already (as used by DMG).
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13874 - 21/07/2022 15:30:15
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Replying To Viking66: "Not sure Tipp and Waterford will be much better tbh. It will be hard for Cahill to blend in the new with the old. He will probably go with the lads he knows from u20/1 but it will take time to get the S and C into them and make a Senior team out of them. He will have them very fit and motivated though.
Hard to see where Waterford go from here. They have talented hurlers for sure but if Cahill couldn't get them to play as a team come Championship who will? Alot of the players are in their peak years and if the Board fluff the managerial appointment this time maybe their window will be shut for years to come." Viking 66 it is ironic when a Waterford player gets to his mid 20's the team is deemed to be a past their best. When a Kilkenny player gets to 30 he is in his prime. Iarlath Daly is 23 and his brother Cartlach is 20 and they will be further experienced next year. Fitzgerald has now tasted championship hurling at 20. Kiely is 21,Barron, Gleeson, Curran, Bennetts, Lyons, Hutchison etc. are all in the second half of their 20s. I followed the under 20s and seen probably about four who are ready to come up. The full back from Roanmore, Furlong stood out. I know underage does not always follow through. I will be the first to say not sure we can get over the line and as much as I criticize some things, an excellent job is being done in developing players. I don't see Waterford falling off the face of the earth like before but could be wrong. We have contested eight All-Ireland's and numerous semi finals and I''ll agree have a small return.
I had to laugh before the ALL-Ireland one of our esteemed analysts stated Limerick are a long time on the road and getting up there. If that is not a team in its prime I don't know what is. They may get beaten but writing them off on that pretence is hilarious.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2866 - 21/07/2022 16:50:44
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Replying To Canuck: "Viking 66 it is ironic when a Waterford player gets to his mid 20's the team is deemed to be a past their best. When a Kilkenny player gets to 30 he is in his prime. Iarlath Daly is 23 and his brother Cartlach is 20 and they will be further experienced next year. Fitzgerald has now tasted championship hurling at 20. Kiely is 21,Barron, Gleeson, Curran, Bennetts, Lyons, Hutchison etc. are all in the second half of their 20s. I followed the under 20s and seen probably about four who are ready to come up. The full back from Roanmore, Furlong stood out. I know underage does not always follow through. I will be the first to say not sure we can get over the line and as much as I criticize some things, an excellent job is being done in developing players. I don't see Waterford falling off the face of the earth like before but could be wrong. We have contested eight All-Ireland's and numerous semi finals and I''ll agree have a small return.
I had to laugh before the ALL-Ireland one of our esteemed analysts stated Limerick are a long time on the road and getting up there. If that is not a team in its prime I don't know what is. They may get beaten but writing them off on that pretence is hilarious." I agree 100%. You didn't read the post. I said alot of your best players are in their peak years. For me that's between 25 and 30 odds. So, assuming the new manager gets the usual 3 years, this appointment is a really important one to get right for these players. If it is got wrong then this window of opportunity, which is possibly an AI winning one, might be closed in 3 years time for this group of players. That's all I said. At the end of the day you have won recent enough Munsters and Leagues. You might not have as good a chance to break the AI drought for a number of years after this next 3 years. Whatever about the flop in this year's round robin the fact, as pointed out after the League by every pundit in the country, remains that you have one of the better squads, if maybe not the outright best, right now.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13874 - 21/07/2022 17:11:40
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Replying To tiobraid: "No All star from a Tipp man, quelle surprise! Jamsie O' Connor doesn't agree with you and he knows a thing or two about forwards!
This is what you said. How could I have misread your post in the way you said when I picked Thomas Monaghan on my team? I never claimed Whelan didnt score in the championship - blatant lies. Tony Kelly scored 12 points from play in the championship against Limerick - I forgot the side line was a placed ball. 13 insteand of 12 is hardly outrageous!
You have a serious chip on your shoulder about Tipperary. I'm not too sure why Tipp would come into a discussion about All Stars this year only for your hatred of us. It was a well known fact that Ollie was Eoins most difficult opponent but he did score 1-1 from play off him in Croke Park. You're obviously mixing it up with Pearse Stadium years before. Serious levels of immaturuty in your post. I'd consider Tipps rivalry with Limerick far greater than with Galway, yet I selected 13 Limerick players on my team of 2021. You have managed to turn a post about team of the year into Galway v Tipperary! Well done!" Don't give me that trope about Galway hating Tipperary, that's well past its sell by date. My reply to you had nothing to do with Tipp. It had everything to do with you and your bullying tactics. When you asked me in your derogatory and condescending tone how old I was what type of answer did you expect?
You call this form of interaction a 'discussion'. You're not interested in a discussion, your game is one-upmanship, outsmarting, correcting, telling me that I have shot myself in the foot, that I have " Serious levels of immaturuty " etc. People who wish to engage in a discussion don't use that type of language.
Slán leat anois!
baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 21/07/2022 18:29:20
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Replying To Viking66: "I agree 100%. You didn't read the post. I said alot of your best players are in their peak years. For me that's between 25 and 30 odds. So, assuming the new manager gets the usual 3 years, this appointment is a really important one to get right for these players. If it is got wrong then this window of opportunity, which is possibly an AI winning one, might be closed in 3 years time for this group of players. That's all I said. At the end of the day you have won recent enough Munsters and Leagues. You might not have as good a chance to break the AI drought for a number of years after this next 3 years. Whatever about the flop in this year's round robin the fact, as pointed out after the League by every pundit in the country, remains that you have one of the better squads, if maybe not the outright best, right now." Viking 66 I was making a point how things are interrupted in general by some. Limerick comment an example. Not necessarily your comments. I got what you are saying. The window is closing for this squad but I believe upgrades are in progress. Being honest I am not over optimistic ever with any squad we have at getting an All-Ireland. Lots of things would have to line up, luck included. We would have to have a good team like the last 25 years and everyone else have the same. Great teams will always be a problem for us. Waterford does not have the pick with 12 senior teams and in reality 8 real ones is a stretch. I think they have done a great job in going into the junior and intermediate clubs and finding talent. I know of a 14 year old in our junior club who is being targeted already. Played minor with the county this year, too young.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2866 - 21/07/2022 21:20:17
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Don't you have to be turned 16 to play County Minor?
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1955 - 22/07/2022 10:19:39
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Replying To Canuck: "Viking 66 I was making a point how things are interrupted in general by some. Limerick comment an example. Not necessarily your comments. I got what you are saying. The window is closing for this squad but I believe upgrades are in progress. Being honest I am not over optimistic ever with any squad we have at getting an All-Ireland. Lots of things would have to line up, luck included. We would have to have a good team like the last 25 years and everyone else have the same. Great teams will always be a problem for us. Waterford does not have the pick with 12 senior teams and in reality 8 real ones is a stretch. I think they have done a great job in going into the junior and intermediate clubs and finding talent. I know of a 14 year old in our junior club who is being targeted already. Played minor with the county this year, too young." Waterford are like us, realistically are not contenders every year, but each decade or so produce a good team.
IMO your current team is well capable of winning an All Ireland, were amazing in the League, diden't do them selves justice in Championship, thought there attitude in Ennis was appalling though.
IMO thought Liam Cahill was a bit overrated as manager plenty of lads over the border in Kilkenny that would do a great job Eddie Brennan for one. Austin Gleeson has the capacity to be one of the really great hurlers of our time but he needs to show it consistently like TG does of course he gets targeted but has to learn to cope with that.
Would be better to concede home advantage as Thurles suits them far better than Fraher Field.
I look forward to see yere progress next year
clooney (Clare) - Posts: 960 - 22/07/2022 10:47:13
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Replying To Canuck: "Viking 66 I was making a point how things are interrupted in general by some. Limerick comment an example. Not necessarily your comments. I got what you are saying. The window is closing for this squad but I believe upgrades are in progress. Being honest I am not over optimistic ever with any squad we have at getting an All-Ireland. Lots of things would have to line up, luck included. We would have to have a good team like the last 25 years and everyone else have the same. Great teams will always be a problem for us. Waterford does not have the pick with 12 senior teams and in reality 8 real ones is a stretch. I think they have done a great job in going into the junior and intermediate clubs and finding talent. I know of a 14 year old in our junior club who is being targeted already. Played minor with the county this year, too young." I think you are the county most like us in number of hurlers, clubs, etc. It's always going to take a bit of luck for us to win an AI. Or a golden generation. You have close to the latter at the minute.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13874 - 22/07/2022 11:02:38
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Replying To clooney: "Waterford are like us, realistically are not contenders every year, but each decade or so produce a good team.
IMO your current team is well capable of winning an All Ireland, were amazing in the League, diden't do them selves justice in Championship, thought there attitude in Ennis was appalling though.
IMO thought Liam Cahill was a bit overrated as manager plenty of lads over the border in Kilkenny that would do a great job Eddie Brennan for one. Austin Gleeson has the capacity to be one of the really great hurlers of our time but he needs to show it consistently like TG does of course he gets targeted but has to learn to cope with that.
Would be better to concede home advantage as Thurles suits them far better than Fraher Field.
I look forward to see yere progress next year" Is Walsh Park getting a bigger pitch? Or is it just the infrastructure getting upgraded?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13874 - 22/07/2022 11:03:54
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Replying To baire: " Replying To tiobraid: "No All star from a Tipp man, quelle surprise! Jamsie O' Connor doesn't agree with you and he knows a thing or two about forwards!
This is what you said. How could I have misread your post in the way you said when I picked Thomas Monaghan on my team? I never claimed Whelan didnt score in the championship - blatant lies. Tony Kelly scored 12 points from play in the championship against Limerick - I forgot the side line was a placed ball. 13 insteand of 12 is hardly outrageous!
You have a serious chip on your shoulder about Tipperary. I'm not too sure why Tipp would come into a discussion about All Stars this year only for your hatred of us. It was a well known fact that Ollie was Eoins most difficult opponent but he did score 1-1 from play off him in Croke Park. You're obviously mixing it up with Pearse Stadium years before. Serious levels of immaturuty in your post. I'd consider Tipps rivalry with Limerick far greater than with Galway, yet I selected 13 Limerick players on my team of 2021. You have managed to turn a post about team of the year into Galway v Tipperary! Well done!" Don't give me that trope about Galway hating Tipperary, that's well past its sell by date. My reply to you had nothing to do with Tipp. It had everything to do with you and your bullying tactics. When you asked me in your derogatory and condescending tone how old I was what type of answer did you expect? You call this form of interaction a 'discussion'. You're not interested in a discussion, your game is one-upmanship, outsmarting, correcting, telling me that I have shot myself in the foot, that I have " Serious levels of immaturuty " etc. People who wish to engage in a discussion don't use that type of language. Slán leat anois!"
The funny thing was though you failed to recognise that I had a Galway player in my team! I also have Kilkenny players, Clare players and Limerick players in my team. All bigger rivals of Tipp in my time growing up. Two of the players I criticised numerous times over the last few years - Gillane and Hegarty but recognised both are serious hurlers and had great years.
You did not wish to engage in a discussion from your first post! You went out of your way to get a dig in. "No All star from a Tipp man, quelle surprise!"
That was your first line/point and you went on from that to get dig after dig at Tipp and I never once put Galway down. The gas thing about it is I have been in social circles of former Galway hurlers more than Tipp ones and I have great time for them. I'll leave it at that as you dont seem to want to engage in a proper debate like some of the Wexford and Limerick posters here do.
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 22/07/2022 11:22:48
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Replying To baire: " Replying To tiobraid: "No All star from a Tipp man, quelle surprise! Jamsie O' Connor doesn't agree with you and he knows a thing or two about forwards!
This is what you said. How could I have misread your post in the way you said when I picked Thomas Monaghan on my team? I never claimed Whelan didnt score in the championship - blatant lies. Tony Kelly scored 12 points from play in the championship against Limerick - I forgot the side line was a placed ball. 13 insteand of 12 is hardly outrageous!
You have a serious chip on your shoulder about Tipperary. I'm not too sure why Tipp would come into a discussion about All Stars this year only for your hatred of us. It was a well known fact that Ollie was Eoins most difficult opponent but he did score 1-1 from play off him in Croke Park. You're obviously mixing it up with Pearse Stadium years before. Serious levels of immaturuty in your post. I'd consider Tipps rivalry with Limerick far greater than with Galway, yet I selected 13 Limerick players on my team of 2021. You have managed to turn a post about team of the year into Galway v Tipperary! Well done!" Don't give me that trope about Galway hating Tipperary, that's well past its sell by date. My reply to you had nothing to do with Tipp. It had everything to do with you and your bullying tactics. When you asked me in your derogatory and condescending tone how old I was what type of answer did you expect? You call this form of interaction a 'discussion'. You're not interested in a discussion, your game is one-upmanship, outsmarting, correcting, telling me that I have shot myself in the foot, that I have " Serious levels of immaturuty " etc. People who wish to engage in a discussion don't use that type of language. Slán leat anois!"
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 22/07/2022 11:24:20
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Replying To Viking66: "I think Cahills management style suits less games. He seems to drive lads hard from the get go. A bit like Davy Fitzgerald. Week on week it's hard to maintain his pressing style at championship intensity. It suited u20s who only had to play 5 games to win an u20 AI. And during the covid years there were alot less championship games too. There will be buy in and a bounce for sure. But alot of those Tipp u20 players haven't made the step up to Senior standard and some probably never will. And his style of play won't suit Bubbles. Likely won't suit Callinan or Forde either. Or Noel Mcgrath. Barrett plays that way anyway so would probably make a good captain.
Hard to know how it will go. Alot of the Senior Tipp lads are used to a completely different style of play and set up. A more traditional set up. One that requires alot less running. And alot of the newer lads frankly just haven't looked good enough. I think it will be harder for him going into the Tipp job than it was with Waterford, whose players were used to a more total style of hurling already (as used by DMG)." I'd fully agree with every single bit of that post. However, it does remain to be seen, and the U20/21 all Irelands were won playing a really attractive brand of hurling but with huge amounts of running.
The benefit Cahill will likely have is that he will have more options next year and the likes of Browne, Bowe, Kehoe and Morgan will be a year older. Bryan O'Mara coming back hopefully will also give us another option and he will probably replace Barry Heffernan who picked up a bad injury recently. I think we have the makings of a really strong back line with Eoghan Connly nailing down a place as well. From Midfield up needs a lot of work too but I'd be expecting the likes of Conor Bowe to nail down the number 10 position next year and give us an option at wing forward that we haven't seen in years/my life time.
I said this year that it was vital that Tipp get out of Munster. We didn't but for the development of these lads we must finish in the top 3 next year but we will most definitely the least fav of the 5 teams and it looks a very difficult task
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 22/07/2022 11:46:29
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Replying To clooney: "Waterford are like us, realistically are not contenders every year, but each decade or so produce a good team.
IMO your current team is well capable of winning an All Ireland, were amazing in the League, diden't do them selves justice in Championship, thought there attitude in Ennis was appalling though.
IMO thought Liam Cahill was a bit overrated as manager plenty of lads over the border in Kilkenny that would do a great job Eddie Brennan for one. Austin Gleeson has the capacity to be one of the really great hurlers of our time but he needs to show it consistently like TG does of course he gets targeted but has to learn to cope with that.
Would be better to concede home advantage as Thurles suits them far better than Fraher Field.
I look forward to see yere progress next year" I think clare and Waterford are two squads capable right now of winning an AI. I think Waterford need an outside manager and like you said Brennan to me would be a great fit. He was asked in a podcast during the week about it and I felt he didn't dismiss it at all and said it was a very attractive proposition. They have the squad now but what they need is the correct preparation both physically and psychologically . They peaked way too soon physically and put too much into the Limerick match in the round Robin. Cahills interview after that match I felt was very poor.
Clare are right there. They have the personnel. They have the squad and they definitely have the manager. They were caught out v kk and again similarly to Waterford they peaked for Limerick and again I felt lohans interview after the munster final could have been better. I think clare went full on to win munster and they were correct to do it but it broke them. Next year I think they will recognise that and be better prepared.
The issue if I may is I see a resurgent Tipp next year under cahill. I think munster again will be very tricky but of clare and Waterford can get their prep right they have the tools to win now
daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 22/07/2022 11:53:20
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Replying To tiobraid: " Replying To baire: "[quote=tiobraid: "No All star from a Tipp man, quelle surprise! Jamsie O' Connor doesn't agree with you and he knows a thing or two about forwards!
This is what you said. How could I have misread your post in the way you said when I picked Thomas Monaghan on my team? I never claimed Whelan didnt score in the championship - blatant lies. Tony Kelly scored 12 points from play in the championship against Limerick - I forgot the side line was a placed ball. 13 insteand of 12 is hardly outrageous!
You have a serious chip on your shoulder about Tipperary. I'm not too sure why Tipp would come into a discussion about All Stars this year only for your hatred of us. It was a well known fact that Ollie was Eoins most difficult opponent but he did score 1-1 from play off him in Croke Park. You're obviously mixing it up with Pearse Stadium years before. Serious levels of immaturuty in your post. I'd consider Tipps rivalry with Limerick far greater than with Galway, yet I selected 13 Limerick players on my team of 2021. You have managed to turn a post about team of the year into Galway v Tipperary! Well done!" Don't give me that trope about Galway hating Tipperary, that's well past its sell by date. My reply to you had nothing to do with Tipp. It had everything to do with you and your bullying tactics. When you asked me in your derogatory and condescending tone how old I was what type of answer did you expect? You call this form of interaction a 'discussion'. You're not interested in a discussion, your game is one-upmanship, outsmarting, correcting, telling me that I have shot myself in the foot, that I have " Serious levels of immaturuty " etc. People who wish to engage in a discussion don't use that type of language. Slán leat anois!"
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 727 - 22/07/2022 12:19:26
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Replying To Viking66: "Is Walsh Park getting a bigger pitch? Or is it just the infrastructure getting upgraded?" Google says 142 m x 80 m
Thurles 145 M X 90 M
Dont know for sure
clooney (Clare) - Posts: 960 - 22/07/2022 12:34:47
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