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Yeah basically the main motivation for what I've gone for would be to get even more competitive fixtures whilst not having it get boring. You'd be talking 14 matches minimum and 4 championship matches. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4206 - 08/04/2022 11:32:01 2410225 Link 7 |
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Antrim could do a unique McDonagh-Tailteann double this year. Naturally I don't want to see that in the hurling. It'll be great to see Kerry host a Preliminary Quarter-final and get a play-off shot against the 5th team in Munster. If Antrim are not promoted from Division 3 next year, qualification for the Top 16 through the Tailteann '23 will be attainable. Antrim will have at least 7 important league games, at least 1 important provincial game and then at least 3 important Tailteann games. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 08/04/2022 12:54:46 2410242 Link 0 |
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Yeah, I think the new system is a big improvement for Antrim in terms of getting us more meaningful games. It'd be improved further by the league and Provincials being played off in parallel up to the start of May. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4206 - 08/04/2022 14:24:00 2410259 Link 6 |
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Agree with "Whamore", Provincials and NFLs should be played in same time frame, with 4 specific weekends set aside for Provincials. Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1397 - 08/04/2022 15:42:01 2410277 Link 0 |
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The provincial championships being played out over 5 weeks is a streamlined big improvement for '23. The advantage of getting through a few provincial rounds is more quality game time before the respective group stages. The hurling league tried a parallel league and championship years ago. It didn't work out. The overall appetite is for league and championship as they are. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 08/04/2022 16:52:51 2410292 Link 0 |
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Difference now is that the Football League is also a Qualification route for the main Competition.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1397 - 09/04/2022 11:14:11 2410343 Link 0 |
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Yeah that's my thoughts too. The Provincials and League are both roughly equal avenues to the All Ireland and so they can have parity of esteem. It just makes sense then for players not to have to wait around for weeks to play championship once knocked out of the Provincials. League and Provincials become a bit of a regular season with the All Ireland competitions then the business end of things. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4206 - 09/04/2022 11:44:05 2410347 Link 6 |
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Seanfanbocht and Whammo86, you make fair points and there is merit in what ye say. After the league though, all counties start the provincial championships with the possibility of winning the Sam Maguire. The provincial 8 are ranked higher than the League qualifier 8. The provincial championships have retained that aspect of higher status. Avoiding waiting around after provincial knockout is a carrot for progression in the provincial championships. I wouldn't be complaining about that. There has to be some drawback for provincial knockout, regardless of league ranking. It'll be interesting to see the composition of home, neutral and away ties. Will provincial champions be at home to the higher ranked league qualifier? Will the provincial champion take on a provincial runner-up in a neutral venue? We've been told that the provincial champions will have home advantage in round 1. Does that mean Round 2 will be the neutral venue round? Round 3 in a neutral venue might not attract a crowd if the first 2 rounds have not set up a grand finale. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 09/04/2022 18:15:52 2410395 Link 0 |
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Since the leagues were restructured in 2008, the highest division achieved (including 2023) for each county is: Division 1 for 17 counties (Armagh, Cavan, Cork, Derry, Donegal, Down, Dublin, Galway, Kerry, Kildare, Laois, Mayo, Meath, Monaghan, Roscommon, Tyrone, Westmeath) Division 2 for 10 counties (Antrim, Clare, Fermanagh, Limerick, Longford, Louth, Offaly, Sligo, Tipperary, Wexford) Division 3 for 4 counties (Carlow, Leitrim, Waterford, Wicklow) Division 4 for 2 counties (Kilkenny [until 2012], London) With 53% of the counties currently competing having played in the top division and 84% in the top two divisions, that's a very fluid league system and certainly doesn't look like a closed shop. CeachtPeile (Cavan) - Posts: 96 - 11/04/2022 10:32:14 2410496 Link 7 |
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, London) With 53% of the counties currently competing having played in the top division and 84% in the top two divisions, that's a very fluid league system and certainly doesn't look like a closed shop."]How many of the teams who got to Division 1 after being promoted were relegated straight away? Straight off the bat, Cavan, Laois, Westmeath, Armagh, Meath all went up and straight back down the season after. Others such as Down, Armagh, Roscommon managed at one point to stay up for a single season, before getting relegated the next season. So take these 8 away and further take out teams who were decent around 2010 (e.g. Derry, Cork) but have faded away since, and you're starting to see your closed shop take outline. That was always the point I was making above when I started the thread. The stats may show it looks fluid, but the current League structure only really works for the few, and seems to widen the gap in my opinion so that others can't catch up. And now that it is linked to Championship, it doesn't mirror it properly, and will only widen things while those down below and in Tailteann will be promptly forgotten about. Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2378 - 11/04/2022 11:22:13 2410505 Link 0 |
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How many of the teams who got to Division 1 after being promoted were relegated straight away? Straight off the bat, Cavan, Laois, Westmeath, Armagh, Meath all went up and straight back down the season after. Others such as Down, Armagh, Roscommon managed at one point to stay up for a single season, before getting relegated the next season. So take these 8 away and further take out teams who were decent around 2010 (e.g. Derry, Cork) but have faded away since, and you're starting to see your closed shop take outline. That was always the point I was making above when I started the thread. The stats may show it looks fluid, but the current League structure only really works for the few, and seems to widen the gap in my opinion so that others can't catch up. And now that it is linked to Championship, it doesn't mirror it properly, and will only widen things while those down below and in Tailteann will be promptly forgotten about."]Loughduff Lad, your fellow Cavanman CeachtPeile has already received multiple likes for his comment. The current football league is popular by the majority. Everyone is where they are at on merit. Universal agreement is rare in the GAA. What's rare is wonderful! legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 11/04/2022 11:46:01 2410510 Link 1 |
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How many of the teams who got to Division 1 after being promoted were relegated straight away? Straight off the bat, Cavan, Laois, Westmeath, Armagh, Meath all went up and straight back down the season after. Others such as Down, Armagh, Roscommon managed at one point to stay up for a single season, before getting relegated the next season. So take these 8 away and further take out teams who were decent around 2010 (e.g. Derry, Cork) but have faded away since, and you're starting to see your closed shop take outline. That was always the point I was making above when I started the thread. The stats may show it looks fluid, but the current League structure only really works for the few, and seems to widen the gap in my opinion so that others can't catch up. And now that it is linked to Championship, it doesn't mirror it properly, and will only widen things while those down below and in Tailteann will be promptly forgotten about."]Loughduff Lad, your fellow Cavanman CeachtPeile has already received multiple likes for his comment. The current football league is popular by the majority. Everyone is where they are at on merit. Universal agreement is rare in the GAA. What's rare is wonderful!"]Are you seriously equating likes on this? Come on. As often mentioned on many threads, a lot of people here don't care about the likes on this. I don't use them, or care about them. I'll use my own judgement thanks, not what posts a few like. Although it's not surprising. Like why would turkeys vote for Christmas? The current system suits those in the closed shop, so of course supporters of those counties will like something that will keep suiting them. With the new tiered Championship the system isn't fair, as much as you yourself like it. And it's not good for teh sport in the long term if a gap continues to widen. Why would you not want to try something that could help competitiveness? Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2378 - 11/04/2022 12:42:40 2410518 Link 0 |
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Loughduff Lad, it is crazy that the hurling Division 2A winners are going into Division 1. A few people have likened it to going from Division 3 to Division 1. Hurling are going to have to return to Divisions 1A and 1B on a metric system. Teams 10 to 12 need to be taking on teams 7 to 9. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 11/04/2022 14:08:26 2410535 Link 0 |
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Hurling a very different sport with only a small number of strong counties. So why do you keep referring to it? It's completely different when we discuss football, where we're seemingly actively trying to turn it into as closed a shop as hurling is. I'm saying we should bring in measure's to prevent this. But you're cheerleading it instead as it suits you
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2378 - 11/04/2022 14:12:12 2410536 Link 3 |
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Enjoy the away trip to Antrim! Let's just get on with the game.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 11/04/2022 14:37:00 2410544 Link 0 |
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I don't see why the leagues should be changed because some teams are to good for others and it's hard for promoted teams to stay in Division 1. Is that not the whole idea of a league system that the best teams will be in the top Division? RHF (Cavan) - Posts: 845 - 11/04/2022 15:24:28 2410552 Link 1 |
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Exactly. If you want a " Social Welfare" system just draw 4 random groups of 8. There should be some right hammerings then. The present system is as good a competition as there is. Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1397 - 11/04/2022 16:38:07 2410564 Link 1 |
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By my count, which was done quickly, I reckon that in the 14 season's from 2009 on (the first with promoted division 2 teams from the previous season). 17 of the 28 promoted teams have managed to stay up. Less than half of teams are up to go straight back down. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4206 - 11/04/2022 17:39:53 2410574 Link 7 |
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25% of teams in Division 1 are relegated. 50% of the teams in Division 2 and 3 will be playing in a different division in the following year. 25% of the teams in Division 4 are promoted. This is a very fluid league. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 11/04/2022 21:40:46 2410597 Link 0 |
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You could look from 2008, the first season of the 4 division system. And I've already outlined how many sides come straight back down, and how many manage one season and then come straight back down, so you're figures there start to look dodgy. My point is, it is becoming a closed shop. And by any measure, it is. Look at the divisions through every season since 2008, and you see the same bunch of 5 or so teams over and over. We can literally only see that one team has broken though and stayed over the last number of years, and that's Monaghan. They came up and stayed up on the back of a strong team who won 2 Ulster titles and 2 league titles, and they've since been clinging on for dear life (essentially been relegated last 3 seasons heading into injury time last game, only to pull it out of the bag). We have one example of how it's not a closed shop, and even so they're finding it hard to close the gap and keep it tight. Not really very convincing, is it? That data doesn't back you up. And I feel it'll get worse Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2378 - 12/04/2022 08:27:45 2410605 Link 0 |