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Tis mad alright that thy're doing so well and after living in the parish for 7 years i can see why they've flourished. Their facilities would be the envy of any club here in Meath and i'm basing that of seeing what they had in 2014... so i can only imagine how good they are now. I suppose the Hutchinson's and Fitzgerald's are trying to play at the highest level, i dunno if they started with Passage and moved into Ballygunner so I'll not comment on poaching etc and give the benefit of the doubt. I think the lads who came into Mt Sion back in the day were more country and other county lads rather than locals if you get me, although i do laugh about some of the things.that happened at the time as Flannery used to live right in the heart of Ballygunner whilst hurling for Mt Sion.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 08/09/2022 14:33:28 2440038 Link 0 |
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Yes brian there is more than numbers responsible for their success. It is very narrow minded for anyone to say that their success is bad for hurling in Waterford. You have to always try to get the better of the best and the best are just pushing ther standard up. The present generation of Hutchisons played from the start with Ballygunner and I believe Patrick Fitzgerald also who looks like we will be hearing a lot about.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 10/09/2022 15:10:10 2440237 Link 0 |
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What i find weird is that Ballygunner are so dominant and yet they're barely getting a handful of lads into the current set up, now maybe that'll change when Davy assembles his squad for 2023, but given their experience in tight games, high pressure situations and ability to win those tight games which you'll experience in the Munster championship, getting as many of those lads into the team matters. Or maybe there's some of them just want to hurl with the gunners and leave it at that. Fitzgerald is a name even we up here in Meath have heard about and hear great things but don't want to rush him just yet. I think Shane Bennett was the great hope after Aussie and it's never gone his way. Hopefully Fitzgerald gets bled into the team gradually over a couple of years With both Bennetts gone and Callum Lyons emigrating (has that been confirmed) if i've heard right a few of those in and around the panel need to step up. Has De Burca anything left to give to the jersey with the injuries piling up in recent years. I'm still not convinced about the GK spot since SOK retired and we've no top class CB to lock down an opposing player and the plan of Jack Fagan on Morrissey or Hegarty never came to fruition. Hopefully Mikey Kiely, Dessie Hutchison and Stephen bennet rediscover their best form off 2022, as they had looked good for long parts of the league and early championship. Concern i would have is that Cahill and Davy are almost diametrically opposed in their playing styles and where Cahill was all about getting goals, taking on your man and taking risks Davy is all about not conceding goals and building from there. It's going to be a very interesting 2023 for all of us Deise fans. brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 12/09/2022 15:46:45 2440435 Link 0 |
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I agree. Though Ballygunner has supplied many fine hurlers back as far as the Ahearn's and others but not in the numbers you would expect from this dominent side. I also believe they are structured and play suited for club hurling. Mount Sion new that too and were intent on bullying them but could not sustain it and were like a dog chasing a swallow in the end. If it was a dry day they would have taken a bigger hammering. Socky is still the best keeper in Ireland. Others have got that accolade because of their teams success. However Shaun O'Brien and Billy Nolan are very good keepers. No fears there. I would worry for sure about DeBurca but the two Dalys have just arrived. We have many players of similiar statue so no worries about these ones moving on. The question still is can they be brought to the next level. MCGrath had them when they were learning. Liam Cahill had them in their prime but may be they are a little bit north of that now for Davy. Two very different type of managers. Waterford style was always flambuoyant and Davy may stiffle that. I had great time for Cahill but in the end he blew it big time. My great, great grandmother could win a league with this talented group of players. Putting a team out in a vital championship game with one player in his normal position was throwing in the towel. I knew it as a supporter and the body language of the players showed it. If he does that in Tipp they will get no where either. I will support Davy but tha All-Irlands we have in all grades were won with Waterford men steering the ship. If Molumphy can do it in Kerry,Queally good enough to be involved and now Dan coach and trainer in Laois why can we not do it with our own. Kelly was a fabulous player but making our management team the united nations is pushing it a bit too far for me. Especially with Tony Browne and others sitting in the wings. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 13/09/2022 14:50:49 2440537 Link 0 |
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Cahill's reign flickered out more quickly and quietly than many had imagined. However, he did have Waterford motoring great for a lot of his time there! There should be enough of guys who've been there for 7-8 years by now, and who should have the cop-on and experience not to entertain a game plan that might restrict Waterford's hurling style, i.e. stand up to Davy. Do Barron, the Gleesons, De Burca, etc. want a repeat of 2017, where it was clear that this formulaic, restrictive style that was imposed on the players by Derek McGrath was a major reason why Waterford didn't have the capacity to win the AI? I believe that Waterford had the hurlers that day, and still do, to do it, but were mismanaged. So, hopefully Waterford go out with an attitude and a flamboyance, and they have both plus an abundance of skill and experience, to take on teams and beat them, rather than an attitude of 'let's try and not be beaten today; try and keep the score down'. While I don't believe that Wexford has the same talent as Waterford, I do believe that Davy did hold Wexford back by being too defensively orientated. foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1903 - 13/09/2022 15:50:21 2440556 Link 0 |
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I agree to a point about Derek McGrath. He brought these players from Harty cup winners to county players. Prior to his time and after the Ken, Dan era heavy defeats were the order and he did not want that for this young team. So he devised a system. After all he brought them the closest with a three point loss and some bad luck. Where I would fault him as they matured he did not modify to allow them play the game that is in their genes. Davy has his attributes but something about this set does not seem right. Hopefully I am the one to be wrong.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 13/09/2022 16:19:15 2440563 Link 0 |
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I agree with you Canuck re set up. As you said previously the flamboyance and swashbuckling style of Waterford is the opposite of how Davey plays and sets up his teams. Will he be willing to change his approach for the players he has. History suggests he won't and that is why this could be doomed before it gets going. Teams these days are putting up scores of 30 points and upwards a game to win and that's not Davey's game, never has been. He'll set the them up with structure and a game plan but when push comes to shove will he let the shackles off when its required. I don't see it happening. I'd love to see how Molumphy does with Kerry this year with an eye to him coming in as manager soon. All the underage success was with Sean Power, Derek McGrath and Jason Ryan at underage and schools level, so why are we looking for another "big name" as manager. Cahill was a great choice but it went south so fast the chairs are still circling, but he wasn't a big name. They gave him a chance and were right to do so. We need to start believing in the guys within Waterford and stop chasing big names, we have the guys there who could win if given half a chance. But maybe the sponsors and the county board want the bright and shiny toy on the sideline, not the guy who's gonna bring home Liam McCarthy. brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 14/09/2022 11:51:22 2440628 Link 0 |
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Whatever about the reason's or otherwise for there success and it's not Ballygunner's fault in anyway but I think a clubs 2nd team being 13th on the overall ladder in a county is not a healthy situation. Problem from the outside for me is other clubs losing heart or interest. This isn't a golden generation like we've seen with Oulart in Wexford or Portumna in Galway, Ballygunner are dominating underage too so hard to see where it all stops.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1676 - 14/09/2022 12:30:56 2440638 Link 0 |
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Jason Ryan is an excellent manager with many years experience managing hurling and football teams at club and intercounty.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 14/09/2022 14:06:23 2440657 Link 0 |
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Well, then it is time for club hurling in Waterford to knuckle down, get down and take down. There was a fear at once stage that Na Piarsaigh were gonna completely take over the club scene in Limerick. The Well, the Balbec, Oola and almost ever single club in Limerick never agreed with that script, TG. It's not a manager who is gonna win an AI for Waterford. More, more than ever it's gonna have to be the players who are involved. Austin and his contemporaries need to realize that it's now or never. It could be 'now' if Waterford's leaders like Gleeson are allowed to do it. If not, 2059 will happen. foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1903 - 14/09/2022 15:12:13 2440667 Link 0 |
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Ballysaggart were unlucky in the final against them but if they had beaten them would be gone up senior and weakened that grade more. It is concerning in the east alone where traditional strong clubs like Erin's Own, Portlaw, Ballyduff, Butlerstown, Ferrybank , Mollerans (Carrickbeg) cannot top them at this grade. Tramore for its size has always under achieved in hurling bur showing a bit of a stir now.. I dont think Dunhill if relegated would beat them either. Clanna Gael the combination of Dunhill, Butlerstown and Fenor used to be the kings in under age but now are not. Ballygunner look in pole position for some time and that is their good fortune. It will stop sometime as it did for Mount Sion. The new all county premier Intermediate might bring stronger challenge. Anyway two divisional boards in Waterford is riduculous but that is another subject.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 14/09/2022 15:29:26 2440673 Link 0 |
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Well haven't the semi finalists in Limerick for the last number of years been the same 4 teams so wouldn't say anyone outside of those 4 didn't agree to that script.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1676 - 14/09/2022 17:14:24 2440690 Link 0 |
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Yes, but Quaid, Finn, the two Morrissey's, Nash, Hannon, Hegarty, O'Neill, Flanagan and Hayes all come from clubs outside the main four. Just a thought.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4317 - 14/09/2022 21:02:31 2440707 Link 0 |
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That's not related to the discussion really, sure Dessie Hutchinson was the only Ballygunner player who started in the championship against Tipp, Limerick and Cork. 4 Ballygunner players did start alright v Clare.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1676 - 15/09/2022 10:17:57 2440730 Link 0 |
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In the counties where hurling is strong four contenders for the county title is quite healthy. There was a time in Limerick hurling when there was only one team: 15 senior titles in an 18-year period, incl. 8-in-a-row and 6-in-a-row). Below these four top teams, 6-7 teams are quite evenly matched at senior level, on any given day could only a puck of the ball might separate them. I hear that it's the same for the 8 teams at premier intermediate level who are producing close-run and exciting games, it seems. And I do expect Kildimo-Pallaskenry to make the step up to challenge the top four, sooner rather than later. In my own estimation and from what I am hearing on the ground, club hurling in Limerick has never been in a healthier state. But thank you for caring, all the way from Wexford. foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1903 - 15/09/2022 11:03:15 2440737 Link 0 |
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It is in so far as it highlights the fact that Limerick have plenty good players, who are from the four clubs st the top of late.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4317 - 15/09/2022 11:39:58 2440741 Link 0 |
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So the Vale has dropped and the American poster is actually a Limerick man?
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1676 - 15/09/2022 12:04:06 2440746 Link 0 |
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Canuck I watched the final last Sunday and I thought the gap between the two clubs was enormous..would I be right in saying mount sion are probably the club who are closest to challenging ballygunner??i thought if ballygunner even played a bit more direct they'd have won handier..our own scene here in limerick is probably going to be dominated by 2 clubs with the odd time some other team getting to a final..even the well are struggling..are there a few players in Waterford who you might expect to get a chance who people in limerick might know nothing about?? CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2208 - 15/09/2022 13:50:24 2440758 Link 0 |
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? Nope. I'm American, the greatest nationality of them all, and not a Limerick man. However, I also do happen to have Irish citizenship, and I associate with county Limerick, where my late father was from. Things could be a lot worse. I could be a yalla-belly. And it's 'veil' by the way, not 'vale'. Please try to brush up on both your English and your deductive reasoning skills, before posting again. foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1903 - 15/09/2022 13:53:20 2440760 Link 0 |
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Paddy Fitzgerald an 18 year old with Ballygunner is probably the big name coming through, heard Ballygunner rated him as there best underage player since Paul Flynn and Derek Mcgrath said he's probably the most talented player in de la salle school since Aussie Gleeson.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1676 - 15/09/2022 14:24:55 2440769 Link 0 |