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Have to feel this is a serious injustice for McGuigan, and it seems to boil down to poor officiating.
His actions is confronting David Gough was wrong and shouldn't be condoned, but common sense should have prevailed the linesman should have accepted that he was wrong in what he saw, accept that McGuigan said it in pure frustration at the injustice suffered by him and let it slide, but instead the linesman instead of holding his hands up and saying maybe i got this wrong, ( the player's reaction would certainly but doubt in any reasonable person's mind) he went and drove the boot in instead.
This is not the first time in 2022 that this official as linesman has got a major decision wrong. The Kilcoo players sent off in the All Ireland semi final was overturned due to the linesman thinking he seen something, this is the same case with McGuigan.
It's maybe time referees who make massive judgement of errors on a continuous basing are stood down for a few weeks to understand that Inter county football is not for the ego of the referee.
I still believe that if Tyrone and Armagh were in the heat of Championship and followed the full line of appeals available to them, that this particular referee would have been involved in sending off 7 players in the wrong in the space of 3 months.
Hopefully Derry don't have their chance to player Division 1 next year wiped out by an ego.
shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1928 - 19/03/2022 12:43:40
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Replying To shaggylegend: "Have to feel this is a serious injustice for McGuigan, and it seems to boil down to poor officiating.
His actions is confronting David Gough was wrong and shouldn't be condoned, but common sense should have prevailed the linesman should have accepted that he was wrong in what he saw, accept that McGuigan said it in pure frustration at the injustice suffered by him and let it slide, but instead the linesman instead of holding his hands up and saying maybe i got this wrong, ( the player's reaction would certainly but doubt in any reasonable person's mind) he went and drove the boot in instead.
This is not the first time in 2022 that this official as linesman has got a major decision wrong. The Kilcoo players sent off in the All Ireland semi final was overturned due to the linesman thinking he seen something, this is the same case with McGuigan.
It's maybe time referees who make massive judgement of errors on a continuous basing are stood down for a few weeks to understand that Inter county football is not for the ego of the referee.
I still believe that if Tyrone and Armagh were in the heat of Championship and followed the full line of appeals available to them, that this particular referee would have been involved in sending off 7 players in the wrong in the space of 3 months.
Hopefully Derry don't have their chance to player Division 1 next year wiped out by an ego." Them refs and linesmen eh?
Poor innocent players eh?
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1399 - 19/03/2022 14:03:04
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Them refs and linesmen eh?
Poor innocent players eh?" Just another example of this official wanting to be the centre of attention. Three incidences of this already this year, all involving Ulster players! Coincidence?
midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 541 - 19/03/2022 14:38:53
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As a Galway fan I want McGuigan to play. He's a fine footballer. I don't want a cheap win against Derry with him not playing. I want Derry to have their full team and may the best team win. No excuses. Galway Abu.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2113 - 19/03/2022 14:51:11
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I saw it on TV. As bad a decision as I've ever seen. Quite apart from the fact that McGuigan was the person fouled, as an incredulous Pat Spillane pointed out, why in the name of sanity, as he was running forward to join in a Derry attack, would McGuigan suddenly turn back and foul a defender who was behind him? Decision was 100% wrong.
So much in GAA has improved, but we're still stuck with these parish-pump referees.
Anyone can make an error, but it's the arrogance and the lack of communication during and after that is infuriating. Rugby does this better - if a rugby ref sees nonsense developing in the pitch, he stops the game, calls the captains together, and lets them know bluntly that he's wise to what's happening and any more carry on will see players being sent off. Our refs never do that. And when rugby refs make a big decision, they explain it. And TV viewers and pundits can hear what's going on. The technology is there to be as open in the GAA; but the real snag is too many refs have no wish to ever have to justify or explain a decision.
And I remember an experienced rugby coach a few years ago, drafted in to assist with some GAA team, saying everything was great apart from the Gaelic tackle, which he thought was too vague to be capable of being enforced sensibly. Plenty in the GAA world would agree, but if you attempt to say so, you're always shouted down. But it was interesting to see what a very experienced coach from another code thought of it.
Players deserve better.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 19/03/2022 16:44:29
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Replying To shaggylegend: "Have to feel this is a serious injustice for McGuigan, and it seems to boil down to poor officiating.
His actions is confronting David Gough was wrong and shouldn't be condoned, but common sense should have prevailed the linesman should have accepted that he was wrong in what he saw, accept that McGuigan said it in pure frustration at the injustice suffered by him and let it slide, but instead the linesman instead of holding his hands up and saying maybe i got this wrong, ( the player's reaction would certainly but doubt in any reasonable person's mind) he went and drove the boot in instead.
This is not the first time in 2022 that this official as linesman has got a major decision wrong. The Kilcoo players sent off in the All Ireland semi final was overturned due to the linesman thinking he seen something, this is the same case with McGuigan.
It's maybe time referees who make massive judgement of errors on a continuous basing are stood down for a few weeks to understand that Inter county football is not for the ego of the referee.
I still believe that if Tyrone and Armagh were in the heat of Championship and followed the full line of appeals available to them, that this particular referee would have been involved in sending off 7 players in the wrong in the space of 3 months.
Hopefully Derry don't have their chance to player Division 1 next year wiped out by an ego." One word or name sums up refs and umpires, Scully. 7 officials and still they get wrong man black carded. Umpires spend most of their time gawking at each other to see who'll make the call for a point. Refs making names for themselves just because they can blow a whistle.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2006 - 19/03/2022 16:52:55
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Replying To Saynothing: "One word or name sums up refs and umpires, Scully. 7 officials and still they get wrong man black carded. Umpires spend most of their time gawking at each other to see who'll make the call for a point. Refs making names for themselves just because they can blow a whistle." What wrong man got black carded?
Only one I recall being wrongly black carded was Cian McKeon for helping a team mate who was being assaulted, which doesn't come under the black card rule.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1399 - 20/03/2022 10:33:52
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Replying To shaggylegend: "Have to feel this is a serious injustice for McGuigan, and it seems to boil down to poor officiating.
His actions is confronting David Gough was wrong and shouldn't be condoned, but common sense should have prevailed the linesman should have accepted that he was wrong in what he saw, accept that McGuigan said it in pure frustration at the injustice suffered by him and let it slide, but instead the linesman instead of holding his hands up and saying maybe i got this wrong, ( the player's reaction would certainly but doubt in any reasonable person's mind) he went and drove the boot in instead.
This is not the first time in 2022 that this official as linesman has got a major decision wrong. The Kilcoo players sent off in the All Ireland semi final was overturned due to the linesman thinking he seen something, this is the same case with McGuigan.
It's maybe time referees who make massive judgement of errors on a continuous basing are stood down for a few weeks to understand that Inter county football is not for the ego of the referee.
I still believe that if Tyrone and Armagh were in the heat of Championship and followed the full line of appeals available to them, that this particular referee would have been involved in sending off 7 players in the wrong in the space of 3 months.
Hopefully Derry don't have their chance to player Division 1 next year wiped out by an ego." What did McGuigan say to the linesman? Did you miss the reason for the suspension? I would rather he played today but I think there are rules. The GAA would be in worse shape if verbal abuse of officials was not punished. Even society in general would devolve.
maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1196 - 20/03/2022 10:59:43
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "What wrong man got black carded?
Only one I recall being wrongly black carded was Cian McKeon for helping a team mate who was being assaulted, which doesn't come under the black card rule." It would seem clear mcguigan was hard done by. He won't be the first and he won't be the last. The defender blocking and taking out the attacking player is very frustrating. In saying that a player can't lose the run of themselves, or they can but have to take what's coming. Nobody ever seems to reference that and that's definitely one of the problems. There tends to be very little respect for the ref in gaa.
Scully and rugby refs have been mentioned. Scully had the wrong man injustice against kerry and he just took the black card, walked off and said nothing. It was actually a credit to him to have kept his composure. I'm not sure I would have. I'm sure the refs and the other officials were disappointed by it. Also when does a player ever give the ref an earful or lose the plot in rugby. Pretty much never is the answer and if they did they'd be off and facing suspension.
Shane mcguigan doesn't behave like that and of course you have sympathy but there's a line you can't cross.
There is shortage of refs and possibly a shortage of quality refs. Refs being constantly berated and given hard time on social media and at matches is hardly going to encourage more people to take up the role and maybe doesn't encourage people who'd be good refs.
The tackle is very challenging with it being loose enough, overcarrying is another area that needs to be reffed tighter. These almost discretionary areas means refs have to decide a little themselves and that is not ideal. The gaa could do more here to help the refs on the rules or how to at least apply them consistently. The lines men should be used more as well and allowed call frees when ref can't see.
More generally I wonder does having someone like rory gallagher on the linesway refs and linesmen against his team a bit. He never shuts up and us very irritating to listen to and pushes the boundaries a lot. I know it shouldn't sway a linesman or ref but it's hard not to be human.
Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 687 - 20/03/2022 11:52:09
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Replying To maroondiesel: "What did McGuigan say to the linesman? Did you miss the reason for the suspension? I would rather he played today but I think there are rules. The GAA would be in worse shape if verbal abuse of officials was not punished. Even society in general would devolve." There wouldn't have been any verbals if he wasn't wrongly given a second yellow card.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7335 - 20/03/2022 13:17:18
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Replying To GreenandRed: "There wouldn't have been any verbals if he wasn't wrongly given a second yellow card." everybody knows that but it is still not good
maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1196 - 20/03/2022 13:43:36
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Replying To maroondiesel: "everybody knows that but it is still not good" You're right, it's not. Who'd want to be a GAA official at any level when they'll rarely be praised for good officiating, letting a game flow, or getting tough calls correct? They're abused when they make a call that's wrong or even right but opposing team's supporters disagree. I only saw the Sunday Game highlights of the game, listened to second half commentary on Radio One. Very good too, animated commentator. Was glad though to see Rossies get at least a point. Listening to podcasts, checking Ross page here, seems McGuigan lucky not to have a second yellow earlier, but not saying he should, just listened to second hand accounts. If a mistake was made earlier then officials shouldn't be making up infringements later though to even things up. His second yellow was a bad call. They should stop looking for reasons to make themselves look good. Admit a mistake was made, that they're not happy about the verbal but maybe understandable in that case and at least overturn the suspension. Fair play should work both ways.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7335 - 20/03/2022 14:22:57
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Replying To Ulsterchamps_32: "It would seem clear mcguigan was hard done by. He won't be the first and he won't be the last. The defender blocking and taking out the attacking player is very frustrating. In saying that a player can't lose the run of themselves, or they can but have to take what's coming. Nobody ever seems to reference that and that's definitely one of the problems. There tends to be very little respect for the ref in gaa.
Scully and rugby refs have been mentioned. Scully had the wrong man injustice against kerry and he just took the black card, walked off and said nothing. It was actually a credit to him to have kept his composure. I'm not sure I would have. I'm sure the refs and the other officials were disappointed by it. Also when does a player ever give the ref an earful or lose the plot in rugby. Pretty much never is the answer and if they did they'd be off and facing suspension.
Shane mcguigan doesn't behave like that and of course you have sympathy but there's a line you can't cross.
There is shortage of refs and possibly a shortage of quality refs. Refs being constantly berated and given hard time on social media and at matches is hardly going to encourage more people to take up the role and maybe doesn't encourage people who'd be good refs.
The tackle is very challenging with it being loose enough, overcarrying is another area that needs to be reffed tighter. These almost discretionary areas means refs have to decide a little themselves and that is not ideal. The gaa could do more here to help the refs on the rules or how to at least apply them consistently. The lines men should be used more as well and allowed call frees when ref can't see.
More generally I wonder does having someone like rory gallagher on the linesway refs and linesmen against his team a bit. He never shuts up and us very irritating to listen to and pushes the boundaries a lot. I know it shouldn't sway a linesman or ref but it's hard not to be human." You can't use rugby as a comparison in official terms as the consequence for getting offside with the officials has massive consequences in the moment for a rugby team.
Rugby teams depend on territory and referees interpretation and backchatting their referee sees penalties overturned and hard won possession squandered so you learn quickly to stfu even if hard done by.
There are no similar consequences in either GAA or soccer so the referees get far less respect as the consequences of verbals are less severe.
Stool Pigeon (Galway) - Posts: 828 - 20/03/2022 15:43:10
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Replying To Stool Pigeon: "You can't use rugby as a comparison in official terms as the consequence for getting offside with the officials has massive consequences in the moment for a rugby team.
Rugby teams depend on territory and referees interpretation and backchatting their referee sees penalties overturned and hard won possession squandered so you learn quickly to stfu even if hard done by.
There are no similar consequences in either GAA or soccer so the referees get far less respect as the consequences of verbals are less severe." I'm not sure what you mean by that point. Back chat to a ref in gaa and the free is moved up to a kickable position is consequence. Get on the wrong side of a ref no doubt sways how a team is reffed in a gaa match. There was consequence to mcguigan losing his discipline in the verbals to the linesnan last week.
Rugby just has more real respect for the ref and gaa could learn from that. They could though also probably learn from holding refs and linesmen a little accountable for poor reffing. It would seem teams have the right to reviews and challenge it after the fact but not in the public eye. A little more transparency and honesty there would help refs and teams.
Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 687 - 20/03/2022 20:57:27
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So let's talk about Derrys discipline yesterday, most notably the eye gouging incident on Sean Kelly.
Belclare (Galway) - Posts: 904 - 21/03/2022 08:29:18
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Replying To Belclare: "So let's talk about Derrys discipline yesterday, most notably the eye gouging incident on Sean Kelly." All the Ref's fault no doubt!!
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1399 - 21/03/2022 11:05:11
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Replying To Belclare: "So let's talk about Derrys discipline yesterday, most notably the eye gouging incident on Sean Kelly." They were just as bad the week before only the ref didn't punish them and the Sunday game made out Derry were hard done by.
sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1143 - 21/03/2022 11:20:59
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "All the Ref's fault no doubt!!" Cynical Galway....
D.Hyde (Roscommon) - Posts: 143 - 21/03/2022 11:45:29
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Replying To essmac: "I saw it on TV. As bad a decision as I've ever seen. Quite apart from the fact that McGuigan was the person fouled, as an incredulous Pat Spillane pointed out, why in the name of sanity, as he was running forward to join in a Derry attack, would McGuigan suddenly turn back and foul a defender who was behind him? Decision was 100% wrong.
So much in GAA has improved, but we're still stuck with these parish-pump referees.
Anyone can make an error, but it's the arrogance and the lack of communication during and after that is infuriating. Rugby does this better - if a rugby ref sees nonsense developing in the pitch, he stops the game, calls the captains together, and lets them know bluntly that he's wise to what's happening and any more carry on will see players being sent off. Our refs never do that. And when rugby refs make a big decision, they explain it. And TV viewers and pundits can hear what's going on. The technology is there to be as open in the GAA; but the real snag is too many refs have no wish to ever have to justify or explain a decision.
And I remember an experienced rugby coach a few years ago, drafted in to assist with some GAA team, saying everything was great apart from the Gaelic tackle, which he thought was too vague to be capable of being enforced sensibly. Plenty in the GAA world would agree, but if you attempt to say so, you're always shouted down. But it was interesting to see what a very experienced coach from another code thought of it.
Players deserve better." Everyone seems to be in agreement that the ref made a mistake regarding McGuigan, regarding the point not counting for Fermanagh yesterday, and all the decisions that go in favor of the big teams esp the Dubs. But are they mistakes? Here again is the RTE Documentary showing the match officials being prepared for a big match by the Administrators of the game, start watching at 9 minutes in. The match officials being shown footage of Kerry getting "soft frees". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhNzf31pgc0
giveitlong (Galway) - Posts: 1217 - 21/03/2022 11:49:09
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the eye gouger has previous at club level especially. excuse the pun, he's got a bad eye in his head
Blitzkrig (Fermanagh) - Posts: 39 - 21/03/2022 12:27:32
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