National Forum

Football Super 16 For 2023 Onwards

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "A very good move. There's no perfect system. However, there is a very imperfect system; the current one.

I'd actually have 3 tiers: Senior, intermediate and junior, but one step at a time. I don't expect CP to be able to run before it can walk."
The gaa have failed to market second tier football competitions for years. Three would be completely out of their depth.

Leitrim_12 (USA) - Posts: 207 - 27/02/2022 10:13:27    2402630

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The essence of the new format is based on formats which have already failed. Pundits are already saying that if teams aren't careful they could end up playing in the Tailteann Cup.

I feel we've just passed on an opportunity to develop something great here I feel. Hope I'm wrong.

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 27/02/2022 10:32:51    2402632

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Am I right in saying it looks like cork would be in tailteann cup,they play Kerry in semi in munster so cant make final..they are struggling in the league,or will they play in Sam Maguire because they are a division 2 team?

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2226 - 27/02/2022 10:51:05    2402633

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As the champions league has evolved over the last 30 years, the group stage has become the weak point of the competition as it is predictable and boring. Including a similar stage in the GAA competition is a mistake and will probably be even worse as with only one team getting eliminated it will be full of dead rubbers.
Also, the top teams from the league know they are in the later stages of the championship before it even starts. Does anyone really think managers will then send their important players into provincial action. It will be a competition for their squad players to improve and increase the gap. It does render the already meaningless provincial championships even more meaningless I suppose, so that is some trick.
If you are a division 3 or 4 team, why bother with league now as it can't get you a championship spot, but a push in a weakened provincial campaign could get them there. So the league, the only good competition we have at the minute, is also getting watered down.
Overall, a hatchet job on the league for the sake of the provincial sacred cows and a move towards a summer full of meaningless matches.
But keep spending your money to go watch this nonsense.

Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 27/02/2022 11:22:59    2402642

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Delighted, takes away the long grass Counties can hide in in easier provinces and makes the Championship fairer, you have to trust quality will rise to the All Ireland Series. The Championship will be fairer and better because of it.

What way will the the groups work - the places dedicated to the league positions will be wild cards as it were of course - but will it be an open draw or will the GAA rotate the combos between the provincial winner and runners up year on year i.e. Leinster winners play Munster Runners up one year and Connacht the next etc.

Right off to Newbridge - likely to get nowhere!

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 27/02/2022 11:34:24    2402644

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I can't make up my mind about it, something had to change, not sure if this is going to work either, not easy getting it right I suppose, try this first and then maybe tweak it as it goes,
is it just the normal back door system for this year?

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2756 - 27/02/2022 12:08:18    2402652

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I dont know about other people
But im no wiser about this new Championship
Its a very confusing set up to be honest

rhudson (Galway) - Posts: 1478 - 27/02/2022 12:16:20    2402656

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Replying To kentuckytucky:  "The death knell for div 3 and 4 players. And the sheep have voted it in"
It appears from what Seán Kelly wrote in The Examiner that if a Division 3 or 4 county win the Tailteann Cup, they will qualify for the Top 16 of the following year. That's the fairest carrot they can ask for and they have gotten it.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 27/02/2022 12:25:13    2402659

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Replying To kentuckytucky:  "The gaa have failed to market second tier football competitions for years. Three would be completely out of their depth."
You're undervaluing the status of All-Ireland Intermediate and Junior Club championships in recent years. The Tailteann Cup final will reward a winner coming from Div. 3 or 4 a place in the Top 16 table.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 27/02/2022 12:27:13    2402661

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I feel this dividing of counties is all about television rights and absolutely nothing to do with improving 'weak' counties prospects. There'll be about a minute's highlights of Tailteann Cup games on the Sunday game, it is already doomed with a terrible name.

The gaa can go now and market a more glamorous first grade football comp to the TV networks when the rights come up for sale and there's no danger of div 3 or 4 teams lowering the tone. And being in a competition or not based on places on the lesser grade competition of the league is bonkers too. Good enough for the counties that wanted it though. Means div 2 will become an absolute bear pit of a division.

Leitrim_12 (USA) - Posts: 207 - 27/02/2022 12:28:11    2402662

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Replying To Greenfield:  "As the champions league has evolved over the last 30 years, the group stage has become the weak point of the competition as it is predictable and boring. Including a similar stage in the GAA competition is a mistake and will probably be even worse as with only one team getting eliminated it will be full of dead rubbers.
Also, the top teams from the league know they are in the later stages of the championship before it even starts. Does anyone really think managers will then send their important players into provincial action. It will be a competition for their squad players to improve and increase the gap. It does render the already meaningless provincial championships even more meaningless I suppose, so that is some trick.
If you are a division 3 or 4 team, why bother with league now as it can't get you a championship spot, but a push in a weakened provincial campaign could get them there. So the league, the only good competition we have at the minute, is also getting watered down.
Overall, a hatchet job on the league for the sake of the provincial sacred cows and a move towards a summer full of meaningless matches.
But keep spending your money to go watch this nonsense."
If counties want to avoid other provincial champions, the best route is to win their province. Provincial winners are to have their first match at home.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 27/02/2022 12:30:14    2402663

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Replying To rhudson:  "I dont know about other people
But im no wiser about this new Championship
Its a very confusing set up to be honest"
It is initially but a clear picture is starting to emerge.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 27/02/2022 12:31:11    2402664

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Are the GAA and Congress incapable of fixing what is wrong with championship structure? Maybe it is politics but how can anyone believe that a rehash of the Tommy Murphy cup is the solution. No disrespect to Meath, Down or Cork but people seem to be more concerned about them being in the Tailteann Cup than they are about the weaker counties progressing the main competition. This is the issue in the GAA, the whole idea is to keep the traditionally strong in situ and relegating the weaker counties to a mickey mouse competition away from the premier competition. Should i expect anything else or anything new at this stage?

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1915 - 27/02/2022 12:32:15    2402666

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Replying To rhudson:  "I dont know about other people
But im no wiser about this new Championship
Its a very confusing set up to be honest"
Compared to what we have this year. 2023 means the pre season competitions are scrapped with the NFL starting in early January instead.

After the provincial championships we'll have four group of 4 to decide who reaches the last 8 of the championship.

In summary a format that makes its harder for a underdog (non division 1 team or top two in Div 2 team) to reach the 8 of the championship.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3353 - 27/02/2022 12:47:18    2402668

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "Are the GAA and Congress incapable of fixing what is wrong with championship structure? Maybe it is politics but how can anyone believe that a rehash of the Tommy Murphy cup is the solution. No disrespect to Meath, Down or Cork but people seem to be more concerned about them being in the Tailteann Cup than they are about the weaker counties progressing the main competition. This is the issue in the GAA, the whole idea is to keep the traditionally strong in situ and relegating the weaker counties to a mickey mouse competition away from the premier competition. Should i expect anything else or anything new at this stage?"
The weaker counties continue to vote these things in. After being told by the top counties this is good medicine for them. I had great hopes this new gaa president would change things for the better, alas they are going to get worse.

Leitrim_12 (USA) - Posts: 207 - 27/02/2022 12:52:43    2402669

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Replying To legendzxix:  "It appears from what Seán Kelly wrote in The Examiner that if a Division 3 or 4 county win the Tailteann Cup, they will qualify for the Top 16 of the following year. That's the fairest carrot they can ask for and they have gotten it."
The fairest carrot that a County could get is open draw, conducted fairly and all above board and if a div 4 team was drawn out with all div 1 teams in their group, so be it. That's the chance of the draw

Leitrim_12 (USA) - Posts: 207 - 27/02/2022 13:12:07    2402675

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Replying To legendzxix:  "You're undervaluing the status of All-Ireland Intermediate and Junior Club championships in recent years. The Tailteann Cup final will reward a winner coming from Div. 3 or 4 a place in the Top 16 table."
I'm not mentioning club games, I'm talking about county

Leitrim_12 (USA) - Posts: 207 - 27/02/2022 13:12:51    2402676

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Replying To kentuckytucky:  "I'm not mentioning club games, I'm talking about county"
If the Tailteann Cup doesn't work out, counties can bring a motion to scrap it. UEFA have the Europa League. The rugby equivalent have a Challenge Cup. I would just ask people to give the Tailteann Cup an opportunity.
The important point is that a Division 3 or 4 county who win the Tailteann Cup will qualify for the Super 16 in the following year.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 27/02/2022 16:24:04    2402736

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "Are the GAA and Congress incapable of fixing what is wrong with championship structure? Maybe it is politics but how can anyone believe that a rehash of the Tommy Murphy cup is the solution. No disrespect to Meath, Down or Cork but people seem to be more concerned about them being in the Tailteann Cup than they are about the weaker counties progressing the main competition. This is the issue in the GAA, the whole idea is to keep the traditionally strong in situ and relegating the weaker counties to a mickey mouse competition away from the premier competition. Should i expect anything else or anything new at this stage?"
I think you are being too cynical. I say this as someone who attends Division 2A hurling and lower tier championship hurling.
Wicklow are bottom of Div. 3 at the moment. If they go on a run in the Tailteann Cup next year and win the tournament, they'll be in the Super 16 in the following year. Surely passionate Wicklow supporters will get behind their county in the Tailteann final as they stand 70 minutes away from the Super 16?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 27/02/2022 16:28:45    2402741

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They had to find a system, that kept the provincial championships, a system that had fairness and a system that had the potential to increase revenue. In the end meeting those requirements was the only way to get change voted through, so they have did well.

The split season, was always an opportunity for the GAA to increase the fixture list at inter county level, as club games aren't an issue for the first seven months of the year; inter county managers will have exclusive access to players.

Every inter county team has a pathway into the All Ireland championship, either through promotion in the leagues to give themselves a chance to make the top 8 on league placing, or to make their provincial final. There is also an opportunity to win the secondary competition to gain promotion the year after.

Congress has put a good system in place, in sport it's important for every team to have a realistic chance of success, and this system gives that relative to where each team is at, in any given year.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 27/02/2022 20:12:22    2402817

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