National Forum

Integration

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Replying To [email protected]:  "Not disputing the fact they are decent pundits,my point is they should stick to talking about their own game and not be in a tv studio commenting on a mens game or worse co commenting on a live match involving either soccer or Gaelic involving men that's my point."
Why shouldn't they? It's the same game. Plenty of females go to watch the mens game too.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 6759 - 25/02/2022 12:49:42    2402340

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Big day for Congress tomorrow, will they vote for integration allowing equality & gender balance, or will they use the lack or transparency around voting & vote against it.

Congress, Central Council & hierarchy of Association should now become 50% female to reflect representation from the Camogie & LGFA. The Presidency of the GAA should then be rotated every term allowing female representation. The next Ard Stiurothoir should be female as well reflecting the acceptance of women Into the Association.

All capital grants, county funding, provincial funding, TV rights, should also be divided 3 ways now. Inter County monies to male players should be made equal with the female groups, even if it means reducing the grant given to male Inter County players.
Clubs & counties should now be making access to grounds & dressing rooms available on an equal basis to the ladies, infrastructural changes needed should be put in place ASAP as well, such as toilets etc.
TV & Print media outlets should be making sure that with the analysts there is equal gender representation in both.
About time this happened, looking forward to seeing the ladies getting to use the centres of excellence now around the country.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 25/02/2022 13:56:08    2402352

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Big day for Congress tomorrow, will they vote for integration allowing equality & gender balance, or will they use the lack or transparency around voting & vote against it.

Congress, Central Council & hierarchy of Association should now become 50% female to reflect representation from the Camogie & LGFA. The Presidency of the GAA should then be rotated every term allowing female representation. The next Ard Stiurothoir should be female as well reflecting the acceptance of women Into the Association.

All capital grants, county funding, provincial funding, TV rights, should also be divided 3 ways now. Inter County monies to male players should be made equal with the female groups, even if it means reducing the grant given to male Inter County players.
Clubs & counties should now be making access to grounds & dressing rooms available on an equal basis to the ladies, infrastructural changes needed should be put in place ASAP as well, such as toilets etc.
TV & Print media outlets should be making sure that with the analysts there is equal gender representation in both.
About time this happened, looking forward to seeing the ladies getting to use the centres of excellence now around the country."
This crude equalitarianism does not work in any sphere of life.

If the associations are integrated then equality means equality of opportunity, Not quotas and an "affirmative action" redistribution of resources that do not reflect the reality of the games concerned.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 659 - 25/02/2022 16:32:29    2402378

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Some of them are better pundits than the male pundits. Not afraid to give their opinion and not looking to say great things about former colleagues and talk lrss nonsense. Karen Carney is a very good pundit. N"
Having said that, Joe Brolly wasn't afraid to give his opinion but it selectively wasn't appreciated, was it.?

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2608 - 25/02/2022 18:38:23    2402397

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There is the not insignificant aspect of finances in all of this. The women's games generate next to nothing in comparison with the men's. They're facts, not opinion. I've no issue with players being treated equally but the portion of the pie for players cannot be increased, that's a non negotiable. The men supporting integration can't expect approx 35% of funds to go towards player expenses, welfare. At the moment it's 12.5%, that's acceptable but no more.

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 676 - 25/02/2022 18:44:32    2402399

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Big day for Congress tomorrow, will they vote for integration allowing equality & gender balance, or will they use the lack or transparency around voting & vote against it.

Congress, Central Council & hierarchy of Association should now become 50% female to reflect representation from the Camogie & LGFA. The Presidency of the GAA should then be rotated every term allowing female representation. The next Ard Stiurothoir should be female as well reflecting the acceptance of women Into the Association.

All capital grants, county funding, provincial funding, TV rights, should also be divided 3 ways now. Inter County monies to male players should be made equal with the female groups, even if it means reducing the grant given to male Inter County players.
Clubs & counties should now be making access to grounds & dressing rooms available on an equal basis to the ladies, infrastructural changes needed should be put in place ASAP as well, such as toilets etc.
TV & Print media outlets should be making sure that with the analysts there is equal gender representation in both.
About time this happened, looking forward to seeing the ladies getting to use the centres of excellence now around the country."
A lot of men are slow to speak their minds on all this for fear of being labelled misogynist. That would never do.

worple (Roscommon) - Posts: 311 - 25/02/2022 21:04:44    2402420

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Big day for Congress tomorrow, will they vote for integration allowing equality & gender balance, or will they use the lack or transparency around voting & vote against it.

Congress, Central Council & hierarchy of Association should now become 50% female to reflect representation from the Camogie & LGFA. The Presidency of the GAA should then be rotated every term allowing female representation. The next Ard Stiurothoir should be female as well reflecting the acceptance of women Into the Association.

All capital grants, county funding, provincial funding, TV rights, should also be divided 3 ways now. Inter County monies to male players should be made equal with the female groups, even if it means reducing the grant given to male Inter County players.
Clubs & counties should now be making access to grounds & dressing rooms available on an equal basis to the ladies, infrastructural changes needed should be put in place ASAP as well, such as toilets etc.
TV & Print media outlets should be making sure that with the analysts there is equal gender representation in both.
About time this happened, looking forward to seeing the ladies getting to use the centres of excellence now around the country."
Divided 3 ways? There would be 4 sports to consider, men's football, men's hurling, ladies' football and camogie, if they are under the same umbrella.
I'll repeat the point that the GAA have been urging for this to happen for some time and rightly so, but it has been the other 2 associations who have been reluctant. Your post seems to insinuate the opposite.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1489 - 26/02/2022 11:06:52    2402444

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "This crude equalitarianism does not work in any sphere of life.

If the associations are integrated then equality means equality of opportunity, Not quotas and an "affirmative action" redistribution of resources that do not reflect the reality of the games concerned."
In fairness once you start talking about men and women being equal in the sporting arena reality kind of takes a back seat.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1262 - 26/02/2022 11:20:51    2402448

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "Divided 3 ways? There would be 4 sports to consider, men's football, men's hurling, ladies' football and camogie, if they are under the same umbrella.
I'll repeat the point that the GAA have been urging for this to happen for some time and rightly so, but it has been the other 2 associations who have been reluctant. Your post seems to insinuate the opposite."
That's the way it's been played in the media. People with ulterior motives and no interest in the GAA - to put it kindly - are attempting to make out that the GAA has been doing down the sisters since 1884.

There are very valid reasons why camogie and women's football choose to be separate and it worked. The reasons for the elite in those sports to want to be part of the GAA formally has to do with their interests, not those of most women and girls.

Same as with the GPA to be quite blunt and from same motivations and sources.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 659 - 26/02/2022 11:29:45    2402450

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Why shouldn't they? It's the same game. Plenty of females go to watch the mens game too."
Of course they go and watch the games but do you seriously think that the mens and womens games are the same because physically there different it's played at a different pace with different rules ie picking the ball of the ground is allowed in the ladies game and surly you don't think for instance Kerry women could compete v Kerry men as an example the same in soccer,so therefore they should comment on their own game.

[email protected] (Cavan) - Posts: 128 - 26/02/2022 11:47:07    2402455

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "Divided 3 ways? There would be 4 sports to consider, men's football, men's hurling, ladies' football and camogie, if they are under the same umbrella.
I'll repeat the point that the GAA have been urging for this to happen for some time and rightly so, but it has been the other 2 associations who have been reluctant. Your post seems to insinuate the opposite."
Good lad, always keen to have a pop. you have to learn that it is ok for other people to have a different point of view to yourself. Some day you might see that it is good to speak your mind or be principled about something rather than being everything to everybody.
No problem, 4 ways if you like, I was basing it on 3 organisations, but no problem with 4 ways, I agree with that.
Maybe you can point to where I stated the GAA were against this in my post, I was merely saying that it was about time it happened.
I take it from your post that you are blaming the Ladies organisations for this not happening earlier. Easy to apportion blame, especially if you have never had to beg for a pitch or dressing room or have your gear thrown out of a dressing room, maybe reservations are based on past experience or talks where real equality was not going to be given.
The problem in the GAA is that we hear people saying I am all for it but the funding cannot be equitable, the mans game turns over all the money. If it was on that basis would the Leitrim hurlers get less than the Dublin ladies footballers or should the Kilkenny footballers earn more than the Galway camogie team. Is LGFA deserving of higher funding than Camogie, where do you stop & if you were to tier it, who decides. It has to be equitable to all, be it the Leitrim hurlers, Kilkenny footballers, Dublin ladies, Galway camogie or Tyrone footballers.
All sides are going to lose out in this integration & the men's game especially & some people who talk out of both sides of their mouth publicly don't like that but that is the cost of true integration to make it one Association.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 26/02/2022 12:25:08    2402459

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The GPA had no interest in the Leitrim hurlers or the Kilkenny footballers, so don't be using that one now!

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 659 - 26/02/2022 12:37:24    2402460

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Big day for Congress tomorrow, will they vote for integration allowing equality & gender balance, or will they use the lack or transparency around voting & vote against it.

Congress, Central Council & hierarchy of Association should now become 50% female to reflect representation from the Camogie & LGFA. The Presidency of the GAA should then be rotated every term allowing female representation. The next Ard Stiurothoir should be female as well reflecting the acceptance of women Into the Association.

All capital grants, county funding, provincial funding, TV rights, should also be divided 3 ways now. Inter County monies to male players should be made equal with the female groups, even if it means reducing the grant given to male Inter County players.
Clubs & counties should now be making access to grounds & dressing rooms available on an equal basis to the ladies, infrastructural changes needed should be put in place ASAP as well, such as toilets etc.
TV & Print media outlets should be making sure that with the analysts there is equal gender representation in both.
About time this happened, looking forward to seeing the ladies getting to use the centres of excellence now around the country."
Complete nonsense

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 372 - 26/02/2022 12:59:09    2402466

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Good lad, always keen to have a pop. you have to learn that it is ok for other people to have a different point of view to yourself. Some day you might see that it is good to speak your mind or be principled about something rather than being everything to everybody.
No problem, 4 ways if you like, I was basing it on 3 organisations, but no problem with 4 ways, I agree with that.
Maybe you can point to where I stated the GAA were against this in my post, I was merely saying that it was about time it happened.
I take it from your post that you are blaming the Ladies organisations for this not happening earlier. Easy to apportion blame, especially if you have never had to beg for a pitch or dressing room or have your gear thrown out of a dressing room, maybe reservations are based on past experience or talks where real equality was not going to be given.
The problem in the GAA is that we hear people saying I am all for it but the funding cannot be equitable, the mans game turns over all the money. If it was on that basis would the Leitrim hurlers get less than the Dublin ladies footballers or should the Kilkenny footballers earn more than the Galway camogie team. Is LGFA deserving of higher funding than Camogie, where do you stop & if you were to tier it, who decides. It has to be equitable to all, be it the Leitrim hurlers, Kilkenny footballers, Dublin ladies, Galway camogie or Tyrone footballers.
All sides are going to lose out in this integration & the men's game especially & some people who talk out of both sides of their mouth publicly don't like that but that is the cost of true integration to make it one Association."
I think you might be replying to the wrong person. All I did was correct you that there would be 4 main sports under the same umbrella, not 3. Also stating that the GAA have been the most progressive in terms to trying to make it happen, which is the case.
Where else have I had a pop, given that "I'm always keen", according to you.
I have no reservations at all about all of the organisations being centralised. It's a complete no-brainer as far as I'm concerned. I've already mentioned that in this thread. You might want to pay a bit more attention before "having a pop" yourself.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1489 - 26/02/2022 13:29:14    2402471

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Must be tough being a sexist these days. "I hear you're a sexist now, Father".

All this drivel about standards. The best player in our club is on our women's team. They train like dogs and our women are the backbone of our club in general, coaching the underage wee ones as much if not more so than the men.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 26/02/2022 14:58:53    2402485

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Replying To essmac:  "Must be tough being a sexist these days. "I hear you're a sexist now, Father".

All this drivel about standards. The best player in our club is on our women's team. They train like dogs and our women are the backbone of our club in general, coaching the underage wee ones as much if not more so than the men."
Are you claiming that women who are members of the GAA are discriminated against? How so?

Looking for the same benefits for elite women players as elite men has nothing to do with that and will make no difference to women club members.

No more than the GPA model has benefitted anyone other than elite male county players.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 659 - 26/02/2022 16:32:38    2402501

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Replying To essmac:  "Must be tough being a sexist these days. "I hear you're a sexist now, Father".

All this drivel about standards. The best player in our club is on our women's team. They train like dogs and our women are the backbone of our club in general, coaching the underage wee ones as much if not more so than the men."
I'm assuming that lady has competed with the men, and bested them, for you to say she's your clubs best player? Our best ladies player would struggle to mix it with our minor boys.
When you say they train like dogs,, what does that mean exactly? Do they train as hard as the men or have you just made a bland hollow statement? I'm guessing the latter. I'm almost certain it wouldn't even be advisable to make the ladies train as hard as the men. They wouldn't be able for it.
Let it hit you, gender equality in the sporting arena is a delusion, a social construct created by silly progressives who can't face the realities of the world.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1262 - 26/02/2022 18:28:49    2402532

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Replying To [email protected]:  "Of course they go and watch the games but do you seriously think that the mens and womens games are the same because physically there different it's played at a different pace with different rules ie picking the ball of the ground is allowed in the ladies game and surly you don't think for instance Kerry women could compete v Kerry men as an example the same in soccer,so therefore they should comment on their own game."
There's a big difference between women playing in the men's game and women doing analysis of the men's game. There's poor analysts male and female and there's good ones. A lot of sports reporters, male and female, have never played the sports they report on, to a top level. Doesn't make them bad reporters, maybe even better because they're in awe of the sportsmen and women they write about.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 6759 - 26/02/2022 20:33:17    2402576

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