National Forum

"All-Ireland" Junior Football Championship?

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My tuppence worth:
Tailteann Cup before a semi-final as planned. The Junior final can be played before the second semi-final.
The Tailteann Cup final and an All-Ireland semi-final should sell out Croke Park.
The Tailteann Cup will start soon after the provincial semi-finals. It will be completed a couple of weeks before the All-Ireland with that timescale. Teams are waiting around needlessly otherwise and there is an obligation to get players back to their clubs in a fair timescale also.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8766 - 09/05/2022 14:08:03    2415950

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16 teams can not realistically win the Senior.

Senior: 12
Tailteann: 16
Junior: 8 (bottom 4 in div 4, NY, KK and top 2 from all britain.) Or you could just put all the british teams in.

It'd make all the tiers far more spicy.

And promotion should be limited to the winners. No more league crap.

skirge7 (UK) - Posts: 254 - 09/05/2022 17:24:31    2416047

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Replying To skirge7:  "16 teams can not realistically win the Senior.

Senior: 12
Tailteann: 16
Junior: 8 (bottom 4 in div 4, NY, KK and top 2 from all britain.) Or you could just put all the british teams in.

It'd make all the tiers far more spicy.

And promotion should be limited to the winners. No more league crap."
There are 16 teams in Senior (Tier 1 / Sam Maguire) today.

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 606 - 11/05/2022 12:26:46    2416472

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "There are 16 teams in Senior (Tier 1 / Sam Maguire) today."
I know but are teams 13-16 at the same level as the division 1 teams really?

Louth, Limerick, Cork, Meath, Clare. Are they really capable of making a quarter final or a semi? Let alone win the senior.

Put 4 down intermediate/Tailteann and that becomes a great championship.

Send the bottom 4 in the Tailteann down junior and that becomes a better championship too.

Far more level for all involved. It gives teams like Carlow, London or Waterford something aim for and build off.

skirge7 (UK) - Posts: 254 - 14/05/2022 10:37:31    2416956

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Replying To skirge7:  "I know but are teams 13-16 at the same level as the division 1 teams really?

Louth, Limerick, Cork, Meath, Clare. Are they really capable of making a quarter final or a semi? Let alone win the senior.

Put 4 down intermediate/Tailteann and that becomes a great championship.

Send the bottom 4 in the Tailteann down junior and that becomes a better championship too.

Far more level for all involved. It gives teams like Carlow, London or Waterford something aim for and build off."
Ah sure that would be doing the right thing.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2294 - 14/05/2022 13:08:55    2416997

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Anyone know why Scotland gave Warks the walkover? Embarrassing

WestAwake88 (Galway) - Posts: 115 - 14/05/2022 19:08:46    2417066

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Replying To WestAwake88:  "Anyone know why Scotland gave Warks the walkover? Embarrassing"
The could not get the players to travel, most likely not wanting to get beat again, considering the 3-12 - 1-05 loss on the 30th.

Brummie_b (Donegal) - Posts: 5 - 16/05/2022 13:10:05    2417673

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Replying To skirge7:  "16 teams can not realistically win the Senior.

Senior: 12
Tailteann: 16
Junior: 8 (bottom 4 in div 4, NY, KK and top 2 from all britain.) Or you could just put all the british teams in.

It'd make all the tiers far more spicy.

And promotion should be limited to the winners. No more league crap."
I think you are severely underestimating the difference in quality between the bottom 4 sides in the NL and teams from Britain like Scotland, Lancashire, Warks etc + Kilkenny. The difference is huge and the S&C is way off where it would need to be.

Brummie_b (Donegal) - Posts: 5 - 16/05/2022 13:18:40    2417678

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Replying To Brummie_b:  "I think you are severely underestimating the difference in quality between the bottom 4 sides in the NL and teams from Britain like Scotland, Lancashire, Warks etc + Kilkenny. The difference is huge and the S&C is way off where it would need to be."
Agreed Brummie_b. The gulf in class even with the bottom 4 and the teams you reference would be huge. London are likely to win the AB this year, and they are playing a very young homegrown side as a development tool. Not even the strongest homegrown available to them. That tells you everything to know about the other sides.

The idea is a good one in theory, but would cut adrift those at the bottom of Div 4, which can vary year to year.

fancyaride (Mayo) - Posts: 182 - 16/05/2022 15:18:46    2417780

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Replying To fancyaride:  "Agreed Brummie_b. The gulf in class even with the bottom 4 and the teams you reference would be huge. London are likely to win the AB this year, and they are playing a very young homegrown side as a development tool. Not even the strongest homegrown available to them. That tells you everything to know about the other sides.

The idea is a good one in theory, but would cut adrift those at the bottom of Div 4, which can vary year to year."
Exactly. kicking a div 4 county into this junior championship would set their inter county setup back lightyears.
promotion to the Tailteann would be a nice prize for the junior champions, some handy ex-pat and homegrown players on every team that would love the opportunity but a lot of social footballers that would not give the time/commitment to compete with intercounty teams bar kilkenny, who wont be going into div 4 again any time soon.

gaelsboy (Leitrim) - Posts: 629 - 17/05/2022 10:56:54    2418025

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Replying To fancyaride:  "Agreed Brummie_b. The gulf in class even with the bottom 4 and the teams you reference would be huge. London are likely to win the AB this year, and they are playing a very young homegrown side as a development tool. Not even the strongest homegrown available to them. That tells you everything to know about the other sides.

The idea is a good one in theory, but would cut adrift those at the bottom of Div 4, which can vary year to year."
Would you have london down as favourites to win the whole thing?

Would be interesting to know if the New york team would be homegrown players also?

JustSaying. (UK) - Posts: 55 - 17/05/2022 11:04:16    2418031

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Replying To JustSaying.:  "Would you have london down as favourites to win the whole thing?

Would be interesting to know if the New york team would be homegrown players also?"
New York will be playing with an all American born team.

Source: https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2022/0413/1292197-orchard-neighbours-bite-into-connachts-big-apple-clash/

The vast amount of players London have to pick from and the superior sponsorship money involved would be why London would be favourites.

Brummie_b (Donegal) - Posts: 5 - 17/05/2022 11:48:13    2418060

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Replying To JustSaying.:  "Would you have london down as favourites to win the whole thing?

Would be interesting to know if the New york team would be homegrown players also?"
You'd be right. New York are fielding all home grown players for the Junior championship. It will not be the same squad of players as that playing in the Tailteann cup. Granted, there are already a number of home grown players on the Tailteann cup squad anyway but the JFC team will be all home grown.

https://www.gaa.ie/news/new-york-gaa-are-growing-a-generation-of-homegrown-heroes/

HandballRef (Donegal) - Posts: 523 - 17/05/2022 11:52:00    2418064

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Replying To HandballRef:  "You'd be right. New York are fielding all home grown players for the Junior championship. It will not be the same squad of players as that playing in the Tailteann cup. Granted, there are already a number of home grown players on the Tailteann cup squad anyway but the JFC team will be all home grown.

https://www.gaa.ie/news/new-york-gaa-are-growing-a-generation-of-homegrown-heroes/"
Assume that New York won't be allowed to play homegrown players that have played in the Connacht Championship and upcoming Tailteann cup?
My understanding is London won't be allowed to field those homegrown players who'll have played for their seniors.

Would be unfair on the other teams competing in the Junior as these players will have been involved in intercounty senior competitions in the same year.

Offtheball10 (Meath) - Posts: 60 - 17/05/2022 12:22:38    2418083

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Replying To Brummie_b:  "New York will be playing with an all American born team.

Source: https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2022/0413/1292197-orchard-neighbours-bite-into-connachts-big-apple-clash/

The vast amount of players London have to pick from and the superior sponsorship money involved would be why London would be favourites."
Londons pick wouldn't be as large as you think - Only homegrown players are eligible - and of them its only those that have not been involved with the senior team so it is quite restricted.

If you compare that to Warwickshire who have a decent amount of clubs many with B teams who can pick any player within the county regardless of where they are born or what level they have played at then Warwickshire would likely have a larger pool to pick from.

Offtheball10 (Meath) - Posts: 60 - 17/05/2022 12:33:40    2418089

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Replying To Offtheball10:  "Londons pick wouldn't be as large as you think - Only homegrown players are eligible - and of them its only those that have not been involved with the senior team so it is quite restricted.

If you compare that to Warwickshire who have a decent amount of clubs many with B teams who can pick any player within the county regardless of where they are born or what level they have played at then Warwickshire would likely have a larger pool to pick from."
In terms of outright winner, if New York are allowed to field all of their homegrown lads including those who have played for the Connacht then imagine they would have to be favourites. Does anyone know if they can?

Offtheball10 is right in that London cannot field lads who are on the senior panel and indeed there are a few players who havent played for the london seniors who don't appear to be lining out for the Junior team either who be starters, so it makes it very interesting. As said the london side is a young one with emphasis on development and most of those lads wouldnt even have experience of senior club football. Warwickshire would have a fairly equal pick, but the overall standard and skill set in Warwickshire isn't great compared with London.

The strength of Kilkenny will be interesting, which could depend on how many hurlers with cross-code interest they can tempt in for a potential show down in Croker.

fancyaride (Mayo) - Posts: 182 - 17/05/2022 13:19:08    2418106

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Replying To fancyaride:  "In terms of outright winner, if New York are allowed to field all of their homegrown lads including those who have played for the Connacht then imagine they would have to be favourites. Does anyone know if they can?

Offtheball10 is right in that London cannot field lads who are on the senior panel and indeed there are a few players who havent played for the london seniors who don't appear to be lining out for the Junior team either who be starters, so it makes it very interesting. As said the london side is a young one with emphasis on development and most of those lads wouldnt even have experience of senior club football. Warwickshire would have a fairly equal pick, but the overall standard and skill set in Warwickshire isn't great compared with London.

The strength of Kilkenny will be interesting, which could depend on how many hurlers with cross-code interest they can tempt in for a potential show down in Croker."
If I remember rightly Kilkenny won a All Britain Competition a few years ago?

Does anyone know how the draw works? Who will London & Warwickshire play in the Semifinals?

JustSaying. (UK) - Posts: 55 - 17/05/2022 14:10:40    2418129

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Replying To JustSaying.:  "If I remember rightly Kilkenny won a All Britain Competition a few years ago?

Does anyone know how the draw works? Who will London & Warwickshire play in the Semifinals?"
This article here says that Kilkenny will be playing Warwickshire on the 8th July in Abbottstown in Dublin. The other tie being NY vs London.

https://scoreline.ie/paul-murphy-lining-out-for-kilkenny-in-all-ireland-junior-football-championship-this-summer/

Don't know for sure if that is correct but that is all I have seen!

Brummie_b (Donegal) - Posts: 5 - 17/05/2022 15:53:38    2418180

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Replying To fancyaride:  "In terms of outright winner, if New York are allowed to field all of their homegrown lads including those who have played for the Connacht then imagine they would have to be favourites. Does anyone know if they can?

Offtheball10 is right in that London cannot field lads who are on the senior panel and indeed there are a few players who havent played for the london seniors who don't appear to be lining out for the Junior team either who be starters, so it makes it very interesting. As said the london side is a young one with emphasis on development and most of those lads wouldnt even have experience of senior club football. Warwickshire would have a fairly equal pick, but the overall standard and skill set in Warwickshire isn't great compared with London.

The strength of Kilkenny will be interesting, which could depend on how many hurlers with cross-code interest they can tempt in for a potential show down in Croker."
"The strength of Kilkenny will be interesting, which could depend on how many hurlers with cross-code interest they can tempt in for a potential show down in Croker."

This is an interesting one and I have no doubt many of them will be well up for a showdown in Croke Park. Paul Murphy has already committed to the Kilkenny football panel as he announced on the OTB podcast the other day.

Brummie_b (Donegal) - Posts: 5 - 17/05/2022 15:55:30    2418181

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Out of the 4 counties I'd expect Warwickshire to be the weakest. Think it'll be between New York and London, although Kilkenny are a bit of an unknown quantity.

London's panel might be comprised of players with very limited or no senior club experience but I'd put them ahead of Warwickshire. Senior football in Warwickshire doesn't stack up very high against club football in London.

WestAwake88 (Galway) - Posts: 115 - 17/05/2022 16:30:46    2418197

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