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"All-Ireland" Junior Football Championship?

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I was looking at the Fixtures page on this site and this intrigued me:

All-Ireland JFC semi-finals
Britain Winners v Kilkenny/New York
Britain Runners Up v Kilkenny/New York

Does this mean the All-Ireland Junior Championship has been transformed into the All-Britain championship plus Kilkenny and New York? Does anyone know?

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1040 - 13/02/2022 15:42:20    2400115

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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  "I was looking at the Fixtures page on this site and this intrigued me:

All-Ireland JFC semi-finals
Britain Winners v Kilkenny/New York
Britain Runners Up v Kilkenny/New York

Does this mean the All-Ireland Junior Championship has been transformed into the All-Britain championship plus Kilkenny and New York? Does anyone know?"
Oops, just found the answer in this informative article: https://www.echolive.ie/corksport/arid-40236800.html

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1040 - 13/02/2022 17:15:35    2400141

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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  "Oops, just found the answer in this informative article: https://www.echolive.ie/corksport/arid-40236800.html"
A few results and standings from across the Irish Sea:

B1. Lancashire 6-20v0-05 Yorkshire
A1. Scotland 0-13v0-12 Gloucestershire
A1. London 3-14v3-08 Warwickshire

A2. GloucestershirevWarwickshire
B2. HertfordshirevLancashire
A2. ScotlandvLondon

A3. WarwickshirevScotland
A3. GloucestershirevLondon
B3. YorkshirevHertfordshire

A: Scotland, Gloucestershire, Warwickshire & London.
B: Lancashire, Yorkshire & Hertfordshire.

Group A:
Lancashire 1, 2, +35
Yorkshire 1, 0, -35
Hertfordshire 0, 0, 0

Group B:
London 1, 2, +6
Scotland 1, 2, +1
Gloucestershire 1, 0, -1
Warwickshire 1, 0, -6

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7868 - 20/04/2022 07:05:41    2411679

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Could we have the strange outcome of Scotland winning an All Ireland??

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1431 - 20/04/2022 10:53:48    2411727

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Could we have the strange outcome of Scotland winning an All Ireland??"
Scotland v New York in an All-Ireland final!!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7868 - 20/04/2022 11:37:28    2411747

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Scotland v New York in an All-Ireland final!!"
Well we've had Galway winning a Leinster title before, we also had Cavan I think competing in a Leinster junior football championship if I remember correctly?

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1736 - 20/04/2022 13:07:35    2411802

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Scotland v New York in an All-Ireland final!!"
They'd need to get past the mighty Kilkenny first!

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1040 - 22/04/2022 15:19:46    2412306

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B1. Lancashire 6-20v0-05 Yorkshire
A1. Scotland 0-13v0-12 Gloucestershire
A1. London 3-14v3-08 Warwickshire

A2. Gloucestershire1-6v2-19Warwickshire
B2. HertfordshirevLancashire (Tragically abandoned.)
A2. Scotland0-3vLondon6-8

A3. WarwickshirevScotland
A3. GloucestershirevLondon
B3. YorkshirevHertfordshire

Group A:
Lancashire 1, 2, +35
Yorkshire 1, 0, -35
Hertfordshire 0, 0, 0

Group B:
London 2, 4, +29
Warwickshire 2, 2, +10
Scotland 2, 2, -22
Gloucestershire 2, 0, -17

Referee passes away after taking ill during match
Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam dílis.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7868 - 24/04/2022 16:45:14    2412767

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Replying To legendzxix:  "B1. Lancashire 6-20v0-05 Yorkshire
A1. Scotland 0-13v0-12 Gloucestershire
A1. London 3-14v3-08 Warwickshire

A2. Gloucestershire1-6v2-19Warwickshire
B2. HertfordshirevLancashire (Tragically abandoned.)
A2. Scotland0-3vLondon6-8

A3. WarwickshirevScotland
A3. GloucestershirevLondon
B3. YorkshirevHertfordshire

Group A:
Lancashire 1, 2, +35
Yorkshire 1, 0, -35
Hertfordshire 0, 0, 0

Group B:
London 2, 4, +29
Warwickshire 2, 2, +10
Scotland 2, 2, -22
Gloucestershire 2, 0, -17

Referee passes away after taking ill during match
Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam dílis."
Very sad news about Mattie Maher. One of the best referees I've come across in London. Thoughts with his family.

WestAwake88 (Galway) - Posts: 115 - 24/04/2022 18:10:14    2412814

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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  "I was looking at the Fixtures page on this site and this intrigued me:

All-Ireland JFC semi-finals
Britain Winners v Kilkenny/New York
Britain Runners Up v Kilkenny/New York

Does this mean the All-Ireland Junior Championship has been transformed into the All-Britain championship plus Kilkenny and New York? Does anyone know?"
Does anyone know if the All-Ireland Junior Championship was played last year in 2021, or has it not been played for 2 years now and this is first year of the new format with 4 overseas + Kilkenny?

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 473 - 26/04/2022 18:50:32    2413439

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "Does anyone know if the All-Ireland Junior Championship was played last year in 2021, or has it not been played for 2 years now and this is first year of the new format with 4 overseas + Kilkenny?"
No idea. But I've no idea why they bothered changing it. I thought they could have just left it as it was, and tidy could have played a home final just like back in the day, and then played the final proper between the home final winners and, say, the winners of a semifinal between New York and the All-Britain championship.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1040 - 27/04/2022 08:20:08    2413478

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "Does anyone know if the All-Ireland Junior Championship was played last year in 2021, or has it not been played for 2 years now and this is first year of the new format with 4 overseas + Kilkenny?"
it was not as far as i know. I like the idea of this tbh, when it was 2nd string/ junior clubs players it was still fairly one sided and same teams getting to business end so nice to see change

gaelsboy (Leitrim) - Posts: 461 - 28/04/2022 13:44:56    2413867

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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  "No idea. But I've no idea why they bothered changing it. I thought they could have just left it as it was, and tidy could have played a home final just like back in the day, and then played the final proper between the home final winners and, say, the winners of a semifinal between New York and the All-Britain championship."
I never understood why counties never took it more seriously. It was ideal for a younger fella who wasn't quite ready to make the step up to senior level. Kerry at the moment have a few lads who benefited from it. Dublin and Cork had a few lads on their All Ireland winner teams in the last decade.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 28/04/2022 15:49:09    2413909

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Replying To gaelsboy:  "it was not as far as i know. I like the idea of this tbh, when it was 2nd string/ junior clubs players it was still fairly one sided and same teams getting to business end so nice to see change"
If I remember correctly most counties were allowed to use their "second string" players. However this did not apply to Kerry and I think two other counties. They had to use players from who played intermediate or junior at club level only. The two counties who took it very seriously were Cork and Kerry.
This was the main reason the competition was scuppered. They had won it, between them, thirteen times in the last twenty years. Numerous Kerry players won junior all-Irelands prior to winning senior ones.

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 749 - 28/04/2022 16:01:24    2413915

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Could we have the strange outcome of Scotland winning an All Ireland??"
Strange? London have won a Senior All-Ireland.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2478 - 28/04/2022 21:15:37    2413969

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Replying To Gaa Fan:  "If I remember correctly most counties were allowed to use their "second string" players. However this did not apply to Kerry and I think two other counties. They had to use players from who played intermediate or junior at club level only. The two counties who took it very seriously were Cork and Kerry.
This was the main reason the competition was scuppered. They had won it, between them, thirteen times in the last twenty years. Numerous Kerry players won junior all-Irelands prior to winning senior ones."
Correct. Large counties had it sewn up as they could still pick players that were senior county standard.
I think Dublin would have been an interesting entrant as they would have plenty of decent junior players that could never get near the county setup because of being from junior clubs, but they stopped entering a team in the latter end so yeah, the old format was scuppered for a very good reason.

gaelsboy (Leitrim) - Posts: 461 - 29/04/2022 14:33:41    2414067

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Replying To oneoff:  "I never understood why counties never took it more seriously. It was ideal for a younger fella who wasn't quite ready to make the step up to senior level. Kerry at the moment have a few lads who benefited from it. Dublin and Cork had a few lads on their All Ireland winner teams in the last decade."
A check of the recent Kerry players to benefit from the Junior Championship show the following names:
Conor Cox, now with Roscommon, won All-Irealnds in 2012, 2015 and 2017.
Tadgh Morley, Gavin Crowley, Adrian Spillane, Jason Foley, Killian Spillane and Mike Breen were winners also.

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 749 - 29/04/2022 19:25:53    2414088

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Replying To Gaa Fan:  "A check of the recent Kerry players to benefit from the Junior Championship show the following names:
Conor Cox, now with Roscommon, won All-Irealnds in 2012, 2015 and 2017.
Tadgh Morley, Gavin Crowley, Adrian Spillane, Jason Foley, Killian Spillane and Mike Breen were winners also."
interesting info, thanks for that.
So yes, it appears that it benefitted the larger counties, i believe leitrim did not enter a few times and was forgotten about despite some very good runs to all ireland semis, so as well leave it to overseas competitors and kilkenny who dont look like coming back to the leinster championship or leagues any time soon

gaelsboy (Leitrim) - Posts: 461 - 03/05/2022 11:41:22    2414517

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The all ireland junior used to be the play thing for the top counties to prepare non senior club players did senior county football.
Kerry dominated because they have so few senior clubs.

Now the competition has been resigned to exiles and Kilkenny- which doesn't give them much hope of improvement either.

For me there should be 4 senior inter county competitions

1. senior (16 Sam maguire)
2. Senior B (16 tailteann cup)
3. Intermediate (16 Sam maguire counties - junior club players only) plus New York
4. Junior (tailteann cup counties (non senior club players) plus Kilkenny, Boston, Chicago, Scotland, Warwickshire)

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1115 - 08/05/2022 20:12:46    2415715

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "The all ireland junior used to be the play thing for the top counties to prepare non senior club players did senior county football.
Kerry dominated because they have so few senior clubs.

Now the competition has been resigned to exiles and Kilkenny- which doesn't give them much hope of improvement either.

For me there should be 4 senior inter county competitions

1. senior (16 Sam maguire)
2. Senior B (16 tailteann cup)
3. Intermediate (16 Sam maguire counties - junior club players only) plus New York
4. Junior (tailteann cup counties (non senior club players) plus Kilkenny, Boston, Chicago, Scotland, Warwickshire)"
I would tweak it as follows...

- All Ireland Senior Championship (Sam Maguire Cup - 16 teams)
- All Ireland Intermediate Championship (Tailteann Cup - 17 teams)
- All Ireland Junior Championship (Kilkenny, New York, UK Winner, UK Runner Up)

Play the Senior and Intermediate finals in Croker on the same day.
Play the Junior final in Croker on same day as the Minor final.

Doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. If you are bringing Chicago into it, why not Dubai who arguably have a stronger GAA team than Chicago. The Junior could expand as and when other entitles prove strong enough to compete in it, but right now it feels about right.

We had an All Ireland Senior B Championship back in the 1990's. It was a disaster. Wrong name, wrong branding, wrong level of importance, no investment in making it feel substantial, it died a death. Nothing kills a competition faster than using 'B' or 'Shield' or some such in the title.

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 473 - 09/05/2022 12:43:33    2415907

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