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Hurling Black Card

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Implying that someone on the interweb is this. that or the other is silly in the extreme! Play the ball, not the man :-) Regardless of who is on the downside of the penalty/black card thing it is a rule that is nailed down to be a cause of controversy. Last year's Clare/Tipp incident was just absurd, and while the Parnell one was not as bad, it genuinely annoys people. There was no outrage over the second penalty as nine times out of ten a goalkeeper will be off to the sideline anyway for that. A referee should be able to use his own discretion where a foul is almost certain to have prevented a goal, not to feel that he has to black card and penalise a foul anywhere within the 21 yard line no matter how implausible a goal actually is. BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2554 - 08/02/2022 09:42:06 2399214 Link
Replying To BarneyGrant: "Implying that someone on the interweb is this. that or the other is silly in the extreme! Play the ball, not the man :-) Regardless of who is on the downside of the penalty/black card thing it is a rule that is nailed down to be a cause of controversy. Last year's Clare/Tipp incident was just absurd, and while the Parnell one was not as bad, it genuinely annoys people. There was no outrage over the second penalty as nine times out of ten a goalkeeper will be off to the sideline anyway for that. A referee should be able to use his own discretion where a foul is almost certain to have prevented a goal, not to feel that he has to black card and penalise a foul anywhere within the 21 yard line no matter how implausible a goal actually is." Barney it id difficult to make a rule that will not be exploited and believe that coaching to do it is now common practice. Why do I say that ? At first I thought it was just coincidence but then there were so many repeats. Barry Coughlan first and then Shane O'Sullivan pulled a player down just outside the penalty area. Actually Shane's was the worst as the player had gone past him and dragged him down from behind. If you are the last line of defence and have any inclination that you can not stop the player get out there quickly and foul him before he gets into that penalty area. A foot will do. Take one for the team. Experienced players can read danger much quicker. A yellow or black or even red card means nothing with a minute to go. May be if you are conceding the free to T.J. but than won't happen too often. I agree the Clare one was horrible, ridiculous what ever you want to call it but does it not show the inability to make rules or think them out properly. I think the greatest joke of all is trial periods for rules. If you have to trial it you are not convinced about it to begin with and don't do it. Poor rule makers making undefined rules that are impossible to do. Refs not trained well enough and not their fault, taking the fall out when they follow what was given to them. Too many nods and winks to the existing rules i.e. steps and throwing the ball. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 08/02/2022 14:36:53 2399328 Link
Neither black card was an actual correct decision last Sunday. The Dublin goalkeeper didn't pull down, trip or use hurl around opponent's body. They're the criteria. Wrong decision. Definitely not black or red. The Cian O' Callaghan one was also not in the category of trip, pull down or using hurl. Both were goal scoring opportunities but that's not enough. The O' Callaghan one could easily have been red as he used significant force and there was zero attempt to tackle properly. Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1489 - 08/02/2022 15:24:23 2399348 Link
Ps. The person who thinks Dublin keeper fouled inside the penalty area doesn't know the rules. Penalty area is up to 13 metres, penalty is from 20 metres. Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1489 - 08/02/2022 15:26:28 2399350 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "Ps. The person who thinks Dublin keeper fouled inside the penalty area doesn't know the rules. Penalty area is up to 13 metres, penalty is from 20 metres." Count the steps he took. If he got out beyond 13 meters from where he started he is in the wrong sport. Anyway he injured the player and should have got a red. I know there are people who think a hit to the face drawing blood is not a foul. Or them Waterford fellows embellishing it. One went as far as say the Waterford player who went to assist him was trying to make it look worse. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 08/02/2022 16:16:25 2399361 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "Neither black card was an actual correct decision last Sunday. The Dublin goalkeeper didn't pull down, trip or use hurl around opponent's body. They're the criteria. Wrong decision. Definitely not black or red. The Cian O' Callaghan one was also not in the category of trip, pull down or using hurl. Both were goal scoring opportunities but that's not enough. The O' Callaghan one could easily have been red as he used significant force and there was zero attempt to tackle properly." Actually what do you consider the Dublin keeper did ? as you have ruled out everything other than giving his a kiss. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 08/02/2022 16:18:17 2399365 Link
The keeper fouled his opponent fifteen metres from the goals. A yellow card and a free in. Pretty straightforward. There are lines on the pitch for a reason. Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1489 - 08/02/2022 16:47:32 2399371 Link
The fact that the GAA defined cynical play under 3 headings is now becoming an issue. If they had left it at 'cynical foul' then both incidents were black cards. If you cynically push a player backwards or pull his jersey to prevent a goal is that not as bad as hauling them to the ground? A cynical foul is a deliberate act to stop the player illegally and needs to be stamped out. For me any cynical foul in that area is a penalty and black card and we get more goals. ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 08/02/2022 19:21:01 2399410 Link
Replying To Canuck: "I have never agreed with the black card and said so from the start. The penalty is a severe punishment enough without a double slammy. In yesterday's game both were penalties. In fact the goaltender should have probable got a straight red. The Waterford player had blood running out of his mouth. O may be he bit his lip or had a food colour tablet in his mouth waiting for the right moment to use. On both occasions goals would have been scored if the fouls were not committed. There should be an uproar if either penalty was not called. Some poster went as far as to say Dublin were robbed and would have won only for the penalty won calls. We used to use blame for our losses one time and where did that get us." I agree. Goalie should've got a red but that isnt in the rules as they are. Was definitely a penalty. And a black card under the rules as outlined by the 1st poster. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11842 - 09/02/2022 10:05:48 2399457 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "Ps. The person who thinks Dublin keeper fouled inside the penalty area doesn't know the rules. Penalty area is up to 13 metres, penalty is from 20 metres." Was the Jake Morris incident in the 13 metre line? I know it wasnt a goalscoring opportunity in any real sense. But afterwards we were all told it was within the letter of the rules. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11842 - 09/02/2022 10:11:52 2399458 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "The keeper fouled his opponent fifteen metres from the goals. A yellow card and a free in. Pretty straightforward. There are lines on the pitch for a reason." Your are right about the line and that is what was used. Pretty straight forward. Were you closer than the three people who made this call and a better view of the line in a mucky pitch ? I don't like black cards and have said all reds and penalties should be reviewed but you know what some people would still not agree. In fact there was a third one when the full back (the best in the game) cross checked a Waterford player in the back out over the end line.But so be it you get some and you don't. I attempt to be as objective as possible and would not complain if those penalties were called against us. When Conor Gleeson pulled on Joe's hand I said straight off it was a red card and believe a one game suspension was light. Joe like the Waterford player continued but his hand could have been broken. Down playing the incident on Sunday is selective interputation because it does not fit into the narrative some want to give. Black cards did nor decide the result of this game. Goal scoring chances and penalties conceded did. Waterford had five. Two penalties that were going to be goals anyway. A great save. A dropped ball and a third penalty for hitting in the back. Nolan had no save to make. Dublin scored some of the better points and are a serious team that I wish all the best to. There are always facts and sometimes alternative facts. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 09/02/2022 14:49:27 2399532 Link
The keeper's foul was not in the rules criteria for a black card. That's not an opinion. It's fact. Referees can't make up rules Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1489 - 09/02/2022 15:10:55 2399540 Link
Replying To Viking66: "I agree. Goalie should've got a red but that isnt in the rules as they are. Was definitely a penalty. And a black card under the rules as outlined by the 1st poster." I have a bit of a problem with that Viking. if you pull on the guys head with your stick it is only a black card ? But if you do it out the field you get red. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 09/02/2022 15:17:36 2399543 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "The keeper's foul was not in the rules criteria for a black card. That's not an opinion. It's fact. Referees can't make up rules" Only in your world. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 09/02/2022 16:21:27 2399555 Link
Can you not simply understand the rules? It's not that difficult. Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1489 - 09/02/2022 18:36:45 2399582 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "Can you not simply understand the rules? It's not that difficult." Let it go you are a one man rule interruptor of what occurred on this occasion. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 10/02/2022 19:16:11 2399728 Link
I don't know wording of rules however if in doubt as to the sanction I.e. was it or wasn't it a goal scoring opportunity I think the benefit of the doubt should go to team that was fouled Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1829 - 10/02/2022 21:25:17 2399743 Link
Replying To Mayonman: "I don't know wording of rules however if in doubt as to the sanction I.e. was it or wasn't it a goal scoring opportunity I think the benefit of the doubt should go to team that was fouled" Well maybe read the rule I posted it at the start. Neither offence was a black card/penalty if the ref follows the rule. He went on a solo run and just did his own thing. Similar decisions won't be made later in the year. dubshurling7 (Dublin) - Posts: 1017 - 11/02/2022 10:29:14 2399767 Link
Replying To dubshurling7: "Yesterday Dublin had two players given a black card and a penalty given to Waterford for each offence. Why? Both were frees and both were cynical fouls but neither are under the rules for a black card offence. Both fouls should have been yellow cards and 21 metre frees. How are referees allowed take charge of games when they clearly don't understand the rules. Dublin had a player less for 20 minutes and Waterford gained an advantage of 4 points (6 but Bennett would have got both frees to make it 4). Not a mention of it on the Sunday Game. If this was a championship game there would be uproar. Below is the rule If any of the following infractions are committed, on an attacking player with a goal-scoring opportunity, either inside the 20-metre line or the semi-circular arc: (a) To pull down an opponent or (b) To trip an opponent with hands, arm, leg, foot, or hurley or (c) To use the hurley in a careless manner" Keeper pulled the lad down with his abdomen. Rule (a). Should really be a red but is only a black card under the current rules. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11842 - 11/02/2022 12:08:38 2399782 Link
Replying To dubshurling7: "Yesterday Dublin had two players given a black card and a penalty given to Waterford for each offence. Why? Both were frees and both were cynical fouls but neither are under the rules for a black card offence. Both fouls should have been yellow cards and 21 metre frees. How are referees allowed take charge of games when they clearly don't understand the rules. Dublin had a player less for 20 minutes and Waterford gained an advantage of 4 points (6 but Bennett would have got both frees to make it 4). Not a mention of it on the Sunday Game. If this was a championship game there would be uproar. Below is the rule If any of the following infractions are committed, on an attacking player with a goal-scoring opportunity, either inside the 20-metre line or the semi-circular arc: (a) To pull down an opponent or (b) To trip an opponent with hands, arm, leg, foot, or hurley or (c) To use the hurley in a careless manner" Keeper pulled the lad down with his abdomen. Rule (a). Should really be a red but is only a black card under the current rules. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11842 - 11/02/2022 12:10:57 2399784 Link