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Hurling Black Card

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Yesterday Dublin had two players given a black card and a penalty given to Waterford for each offence. Why? Both were frees and both were cynical fouls but neither are under the rules for a black card offence. Both fouls should have been yellow cards and 21 metre frees. How are referees allowed take charge of games when they clearly don't understand the rules. Dublin had a player less for 20 minutes and Waterford gained an advantage of 4 points (6 but Bennett would have got both frees to make it 4). Not a mention of it on the Sunday Game. If this was a championship game there would be uproar. Below is the rule

If any of the following infractions are committed, on an attacking player with a goal-scoring opportunity, either inside the 20-metre line or the semi-circular arc:

(a) To pull down an opponent or
(b) To trip an opponent with hands, arm, leg, foot, or hurley or
(c) To use the hurley in a careless manner

dubshurling7 (Dublin) - Posts: 1017 - 07/02/2022 13:58:53    2398928

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Replying To dubshurling7:  "Yesterday Dublin had two players given a black card and a penalty given to Waterford for each offence. Why? Both were frees and both were cynical fouls but neither are under the rules for a black card offence. Both fouls should have been yellow cards and 21 metre frees. How are referees allowed take charge of games when they clearly don't understand the rules. Dublin had a player less for 20 minutes and Waterford gained an advantage of 4 points (6 but Bennett would have got both frees to make it 4). Not a mention of it on the Sunday Game. If this was a championship game there would be uproar. Below is the rule

If any of the following infractions are committed, on an attacking player with a goal-scoring opportunity, either inside the 20-metre line or the semi-circular arc:

(a) To pull down an opponent or
(b) To trip an opponent with hands, arm, leg, foot, or hurley or
(c) To use the hurley in a careless manner"
Are a to c when a black card is to be issued? If so then I cant see any complaints for the goalie walking...

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 07/02/2022 14:30:59    2398949

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Replying To dubshurling7:  "Yesterday Dublin had two players given a black card and a penalty given to Waterford for each offence. Why? Both were frees and both were cynical fouls but neither are under the rules for a black card offence. Both fouls should have been yellow cards and 21 metre frees. How are referees allowed take charge of games when they clearly don't understand the rules. Dublin had a player less for 20 minutes and Waterford gained an advantage of 4 points (6 but Bennett would have got both frees to make it 4). Not a mention of it on the Sunday Game. If this was a championship game there would be uproar. Below is the rule

If any of the following infractions are committed, on an attacking player with a goal-scoring opportunity, either inside the 20-metre line or the semi-circular arc:

(a) To pull down an opponent or
(b) To trip an opponent with hands, arm, leg, foot, or hurley or
(c) To use the hurley in a careless manner"
I have never agreed with the black card and said so from the start. The penalty is a severe punishment enough without a double slammy. In yesterday's game both were penalties. In fact the goaltender should have probable got a straight red. The Waterford player had blood running out of his mouth. O may be he bit his lip or had a food colour tablet in his mouth waiting for the right moment to use.
On both occasions goals would have been scored if the fouls were not committed. There should be an uproar if either penalty was not called. Some poster went as far as to say Dublin were robbed and would have won only for the penalty won calls. We used to use blame for our losses one time and where did that get us.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 07/02/2022 14:36:20    2398953

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Replying To Canuck:  "I have never agreed with the black card and said so from the start. The penalty is a severe punishment enough without a double slammy. In yesterday's game both were penalties. In fact the goaltender should have probable got a straight red. The Waterford player had blood running out of his mouth. O may be he bit his lip or had a food colour tablet in his mouth waiting for the right moment to use.
On both occasions goals would have been scored if the fouls were not committed. There should be an uproar if either penalty was not called. Some poster went as far as to say Dublin were robbed and would have won only for the penalty won calls. We used to use blame for our losses one time and where did that get us."
Well that's a problem with the rulebook. Neither were in the penalty area. Neither should have been a black card and therefore neither should be a penalty as the foul was committed outside the penalty area.

I have clearly posted what the rule is for a black card in hurling and neither offence occurred yesterday

dubshurling7 (Dublin) - Posts: 1017 - 07/02/2022 15:44:15    2398992

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Are a to c when a black card is to be issued? If so then I cant see any complaints for the goalie walking..."
Brennan didn't use the hurl or pull down the Waterford player. He fouled him with his body. Is it a free. Yes. Is it cynical. Yes. But it is not deemed a black card under the rule.

If this was a All Ireland semi final between Tipp and Galway for instance a 21 yard free would have been given for both offences as per the rules.

dubshurling7 (Dublin) - Posts: 1017 - 07/02/2022 15:51:05    2399001

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Replying To Canuck:  "I have never agreed with the black card and said so from the start. The penalty is a severe punishment enough without a double slammy. In yesterday's game both were penalties. In fact the goaltender should have probable got a straight red. The Waterford player had blood running out of his mouth. O may be he bit his lip or had a food colour tablet in his mouth waiting for the right moment to use.
On both occasions goals would have been scored if the fouls were not committed. There should be an uproar if either penalty was not called. Some poster went as far as to say Dublin were robbed and would have won only for the penalty won calls. We used to use blame for our losses one time and where did that get us."
Brennan would have gotten a straight red from other refs no doubt.

The other one was dodgy. As you say, its triple double punishment and the criteria as we saw last year in the Tipp/Clare game are really being stretched. Talking about the first one, not the second.



Oh, and we didn't lose :-)

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2524 - 07/02/2022 17:04:30    2399066

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Brennan would have gotten a straight red from other refs no doubt.

The other one was dodgy. As you say, its triple double punishment and the criteria as we saw last year in the Tipp/Clare game are really being stretched. Talking about the first one, not the second.



Oh, and we didn't lose :-)"
If two reds were given for both challenges then that's the decision of the ref as both were dangerous. Similar to Daly kneeing the Dublin lad in the second half.

But my point is still the same neither were a black card as neither were an offence under the rules for a black card. Its either a yellow and a 21 yard free or a red and a 21 yard free. Neither were black card offences and the ref can't just make up rules based on what he thinks would have happened if the challenges didn't happen

dubshurling7 (Dublin) - Posts: 1017 - 07/02/2022 17:12:49    2399069

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Replying To dubshurling7:  "If two reds were given for both challenges then that's the decision of the ref as both were dangerous. Similar to Daly kneeing the Dublin lad in the second half.

But my point is still the same neither were a black card as neither were an offence under the rules for a black card. Its either a yellow and a 21 yard free or a red and a 21 yard free. Neither were black card offences and the ref can't just make up rules based on what he thinks would have happened if the challenges didn't happen"
You really are something. The ref choose to even up yellows for both teams in the melee.What was done to Daly on the round should have been a straight red.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 07/02/2022 17:35:30    2399083

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Replying To dubshurling7:  "Well that's a problem with the rulebook. Neither were in the penalty area. Neither should have been a black card and therefore neither should be a penalty as the foul was committed outside the penalty area.

I have clearly posted what the rule is for a black card in hurling and neither offence occurred yesterday"
O my god !!! one was right on the gaol line.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 07/02/2022 17:37:24    2399084

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Brennan would have gotten a straight red from other refs no doubt.

The other one was dodgy. As you say, its triple double punishment and the criteria as we saw last year in the Tipp/Clare game are really being stretched. Talking about the first one, not the second.



Oh, and we didn't lose :-)"
I used the term would have won. The loss or lose inference was about us.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 07/02/2022 18:05:19    2399096

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Replying To dubshurling7:  "If two reds were given for both challenges then that's the decision of the ref as both were dangerous. Similar to Daly kneeing the Dublin lad in the second half.

But my point is still the same neither were a black card as neither were an offence under the rules for a black card. Its either a yellow and a 21 yard free or a red and a 21 yard free. Neither were black card offences and the ref can't just make up rules based on what he thinks would have happened if the challenges didn't happen"
" the ref can't just make up rules based on what he thinks would have happened if the challenges didn't happen"

The penalty rule was brought in to penalize for stopping a goal opportunity as a lined goal and a point was not a deterrent. Not other person saw these infringements outside the designated penalty area. I have no time for the black card but the rules are the rules.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 07/02/2022 18:16:11    2399101

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Replying To dubshurling7:  "If two reds were given for both challenges then that's the decision of the ref as both were dangerous. Similar to Daly kneeing the Dublin lad in the second half.

But my point is still the same neither were a black card as neither were an offence under the rules for a black card. Its either a yellow and a 21 yard free or a red and a 21 yard free. Neither were black card offences and the ref can't just make up rules based on what he thinks would have happened if the challenges didn't happen"
Sure the refs are as confused about the rules as everybody else, they need to scrap this black card carry on.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1898 - 07/02/2022 18:22:07    2399104

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Replying To Canuck:  "You really are something. The ref choose to even up yellows for both teams in the melee.What was done to Daly on the round should have been a straight red."
The same chap was lucky to stay on himself let's be honest. Did he even get a card for the melee?

Which was harmless enough and it was a wonder there weren't more of them given the amount of rucks in the mud.

Anyway, we got snatched a draw having been down a man for 42 and a half minutes and playing into Hurricane Katrina. So we'll leave it there ...

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2524 - 07/02/2022 19:55:31    2399141

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Replying To Canuck:  "O my god !!! one was right on the gaol line."
Both were outside the area for a penalty to be given. You may not have ever played the game but look at the rule and come back me

dubshurling7 (Dublin) - Posts: 1017 - 07/02/2022 20:16:43    2399149

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Replying To Canuck:  "You really are something. The ref choose to even up yellows for both teams in the melee.What was done to Daly on the round should have been a straight red."
I'm sure you were at the match to see all the off the ball stuff from Daly. You are taking this personally when my issue is the ref didn't no the rules. My father played for Waterford in an u21 final and 4 years senior so it definitely isnt a gripe with them. My issue is the referee doesn't know the rules of the game and is making it up as he goes. Neither were black card offences under the rulebook no matter what way you look at it

dubshurling7 (Dublin) - Posts: 1017 - 07/02/2022 20:20:29    2399153

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Replying To dubshurling7:  "Both were outside the area for a penalty to be given. You may not have ever played the game but look at the rule and come back me"
O now we are back to the auld "you may not have ever played the game". It is usually when not being able to support the opinion with facts. I tel you what come back to me when you have a number of people like you who think the fouls were outside the penalty are. Neither have I seen too many goalies lunging outside the penalty area to take down the attacking forward.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 07/02/2022 21:12:01    2399173

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "The same chap was lucky to stay on himself let's be honest. Did he even get a card for the melee?

Which was harmless enough and it was a wonder there weren't more of them given the amount of rucks in the mud.

Anyway, we got snatched a draw having been down a man for 42 and a half minutes and playing into Hurricane Katrina. So we'll leave it there ..."
Yes there were a few incidents that could have been subject to heavier penalty. I believe we were the lucky one's to snatch a draw against a Dublin team that is flying at the moment with some exceptional players. I believe ye will be in the league shake up but hope ye will not have invested too much to be a force in the championship. Believed with my bias that my nephew should have got a chance at minor but he certainly drifted away. I think he would have in Waterford. Not sure if that club is significant up there.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 07/02/2022 21:22:53    2399174

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Replying To dubshurling7:  "Both were outside the area for a penalty to be given. You may not have ever played the game but look at the rule and come back me"
O now we are back to the auld "you may not have ever played the game". It is usually when not being able to support the opinion with facts. I tel you what come back to me when you have a number of people like you who think the fouls were outside the penalty are. Neither have I seen too many goalies lunging outside the penalty area to take down the attacking forward.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 07/02/2022 21:36:07    2399182

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Replying To dubshurling7:  "Both were outside the area for a penalty to be given. You may not have ever played the game but look at the rule and come back me"
O now we are back to the auld "you may not have ever played the game". It is usually when not being able to support the opinion with facts. I tel you what come back to me when you have a number of people like you who think the fouls were outside the penalty are. Neither have I seen too many goalies lunging outside the penalty area to take down the attacking forward.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 07/02/2022 21:36:12    2399183

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I'm reading with interest on this topic..after the controversy in tipp/Clare last year,thought it had been cleared up..if a player is fouled where a clear goal scoring chance is stopped then the ref is fully entitled to hand out the black cards.we are now into a new season and it looks as if the rule derinitely needs to be clarified again..I remember an interview with Sean Finn last year and when he was told a penalty and a black card even if foul was out on sideline,he was shocked and said he'd have to learn about it himself..up to the match yesterday I had completely forgot about the black card..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2208 - 07/02/2022 21:53:08    2399187

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