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That Tyrone/Armagh Row

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Replying To HuddHastings:  "I knew when i heard about the 5 red cards that David Gough would be the ref involved,"
I knew when I heard there was a game yesterday with 5 red cards Armagh and Tyrone would be involved.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 07/02/2022 17:01:42    2399065

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Replying To daytona11:  "I knew when I heard there was a game yesterday with 5 red cards Armagh and Tyrone would be involved."
Handbags, sticking in you for letting Mc Geeney go .

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2017 - 07/02/2022 17:28:15    2399076

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Armagh were by far the better team, if that will last deeper into the season is anyone's guess but you could see the frustration, in Tyrone players as the game went on. Tyrone had a good second half but Armagh always looked comfortable and I think Tyrone's frustration boiled over at the end, not a great look; my reading of it was Tyrone were annoyed losing to Armagh which was confirmed by the melee. I agree with O'Rourke on the Sunday Game, the ref was correct to stand up to Tyrone in particular and try to send a message out you can't be dragging players in head locks when you've lost a match. The GAA should try and ensure the red cards stick.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 07/02/2022 17:52:49    2399090

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Replying To Highandmighty:  "Dunno where this narrative of Gough being a good ref has come out of, he's always been average at best and dreadful at worst. And also has a tendency to be seen way too much, put it this way, when a ref is good or gets things right, you rarely here his name mentioned outside of a massive game like an all ireland semi or final or provincial final.

Yesterday perfect example of that, whole game long he missed several off the ball incidents and did nothing, then when things eventually boils over he thinks its gonna be solved by flashing cards randomly.
Don't see how anyone could watch that brawl and pick out a 4v1 situation involving either team, if he wanted to be fair it would be about 8 or 9 red cards for each team.

While I don't think the GAA are out to "nail" anyone, theres 100% an anti-ulster (or more specifically anti 6 counties) narrative with RTE. Spend about twenty minutes analyzing row between Tyrone and Armagh with chief hypocrite Colm O Rourke, then comes to Dublin V Kerry and the schemozzle is ignored. But that RTE hatred of anything not in the Republic been there for donkeys years.

All cards need to be overturned and get on with things, we don't want to see this stupid handbags crap in games but if you're gonna be giving red cards for it then every game in the country from now on will be playing 11 a side by half time."
Thanks - well said.

There wasn't a blow struck. Pushing and shoving. 5 points:

1. Even O'Rourke admitted that it was 6 of one and half a dozen of the other - if reds are now being dished out for this sort of thing, then Armagh should have had at least as many. Can anyone give a logical explanation why Tyrone got 4 times as many reds?
2. There was a very similar melee in the previous night's Dublin-Kerry game. It would have been natural for the Sunday Game to note the wildly different treatment of that similar incident. Instead, RTE didn't even show it in its analysis of the Dublin Kerry game, and not a word was spoken about it. I was waiting to see what they would say about it - and then nothing. The selective reporting, the bias, the double standards are hanging out of the "national" broadcaster; but that's old news.
3. Fitzmaurice said "it suited Tyrone to start it". That made no sense - if you're 4 points down with time running out, why would you start anything like that? That's what teams do when they're ahead …
4. O'Rourke's halo is as cheap as his opinions. Google Meath-Mayo 1996 to see boots flying in, elbows and fists - puts Sunday's handbags into perspective.
5. If reds are now being dished out for this kind of pushing and shoving, the CCC boys could take a look at the Kerry-Dublin melee and dish out a few - oh look, there go some pigs, flying overhead …

It's the lack of consistency that is concerning.

Does anyone for a second think that, during the rest of this season, any other team will get 4 reds for a pushing and shoving match wherein no blows were struck?

Last weekend, Tyrone had a perfectly valid wining score disallowed; and now this petty nonsense, designed to make life v difficult for them in the next weekend's game.

Mark my words, Tyrone will be on the wrong side of every 50:50 call in 2022.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 07/02/2022 18:43:41    2399109

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "The rules are clear... If you are contributing to a melee it is a red card, plain and simple. Gough could and should have sent off more, but the idea that he shouldn't have sent off the ones he did, is laughable. So too is the idea that fellas in headlocks being dragged along the ground while others are throwing half skites about the place in a rolling brawl, is just 'handbag stuff'. Need to move away from that thuggish mentality, and the viewing public need to cop themselves on and not be cheering and encouraging it on from the stands, as you could easily hear going on in the footage online. Not even rugby, which is a much more physical sport than GAA, tolerates that nonsense anymore. The rules are there to deter lads from turning thug during a game. If the cards are eventually overturned (and I hope they are not), the deterrent is feckless and the rules are then not fit for purpose. This isn't just a Tyrone or Armagh or Ulster thing either. It needs calling out and stamping out everywhere!"
Agreed - but it won't be. Nobody else will get a heap of red cards like that.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 07/02/2022 18:44:58    2399110

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Replying To skirge7:  "Everyone here blaming the ref...

He watched the whole thing from 2m. He spoke to 2 unpires then 2 linesmen. Then he gave out 5 red cards and 1 yellow card.

If any of the 4 people he spoke to reported a red card offence he had to send them off.

After several rewatches of the video I think the position of the officials very much dictated who got away with stuff and who didn't. There could have been more cards.

There were at least 10 incidents of guys being flung to the ground either by being grabbed in headlocks, wrestled, jersey collar. Even a few instances of choking guys. It went on for 75 secs."
I wouldn't be getting to bothered about what the linesmen or umpires saw, they couldn't even see that Scully was 50 yards from an incident on Saturday night but he was still black carded.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2017 - 07/02/2022 18:50:50    2399114

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Didnt see the game or the melee but the behaviour last week when Conor McManus came on was ugly and disgusting. Many of these players beat Tipp in the u21 final a number of years ago and anyone who was at that game would not be surprised that this type of ugly play is a feature of the Tyrone senior team now."
"Ugly and disgusting" - oh come on Gary Mohan wasn't far behind in the pushing and shoving stakes; in fact most of both team weren't holding much back. it wasn't a particularly dirty game though; the most disgusting thing about it was the ref's cynical cancellation of a perfectly legal wining point at the end. And you're not seriously still bitter about an unimportant U21 game? The one where Tyrone were supposed to have done all the nasty sledging that all the poor Tipp altar boys were so "shocked" about lol? Anyone who was at that game would remember how the most violent incident in the entire game was the stamping incident by a Tipp player, one that the ref "didn't see". Being that bitter 7 years after an unimportant youth match is not good for you.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 07/02/2022 18:56:51    2399116

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Replying To brianb:  "It was a nastier "melee" though. Headlocks and being wrestled to the ground along with the usual pulling and pushing. A deliberate pull down would be a black card anyway. It looked like the ref sent off anyone who pulled someone down."
OK, so the rule book is so detailed that it differentiates between melees and nasty melees?! You're just scraping the barrel here, to justify your own bias. Also, a black card is issued when there is a drag down that prevented a possible scoring opportunity. Doubtful if there were too many scoring opportunities in such melees ...

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 07/02/2022 19:06:43    2399119

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Replying To Zucker:  "Agree 100%. Same goes for most county teams around the place. Plenty of big men throwin shapes but when it comes to lampin a lad with a box they're pussycats. Sad reflection"
"Sad reflection" - are you serious? The reason why nobody throws a punch any more is that it's a guaranteed red card, or a suspension. Lads train too hard to risk that. Up to this weekend, the understanding was you might get a yellow for wrestling and shoving, but you'd be very unlikely to get a red. That may have changed now though. But your idea that modern players are soft is very very silly. I know a few modern players who box / do MMA seriously as well; I would not like to get on the wrong side of them.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 07/02/2022 19:11:37    2399121

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Replying To daytona11:  "I knew when I heard there was a game yesterday with 5 red cards Armagh and Tyrone would be involved."
It's ok because it happens everywhere. Well that's what we're being told anyway...

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 07/02/2022 19:25:48    2399128

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Often saw more pushing and shoving on the way out from mass….. A total over reaction from all the officials involved….. all cards will hopefully be rescinded…."
spot on reply

germac (Down) - Posts: 535 - 07/02/2022 19:43:12    2399135

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Comparing Meath vs Roscommon to this game is a bit much. There was nothing like McEntees red card in Tyrone game but similarly the rest of the melee in the Meath game hadn't a patch on the Tyrone one.

I've seen the videos of the Tyrone vs Armagh and Harte deserved to go, he was straight in with putting Burns in a headlock. There was also another Tyrone & Armagh player who grabbed lads in choke-holds who deserved to go, not sure if they did now as I couldn't see their numbers. That to me is 3 reds which were deserved the rest was pushing & shoving.

I'm all on for the odd melee here and there but if you get involved then you need to accept the punishment and move on.

UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 355 - 07/02/2022 20:31:52    2399158

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There's definitely an air of "It's Tyrone and Armagh so everyone fill their boots" about particularly in the Southern media and some Gaels outside Ulster. It's the usual narrative. Having said this there were some pushing and shoving that maybe came under "involving yourself in a melee" so I can see why red cards were flashed. By the same token it wasn't the worst thing that's happened on a Gaelic pitch and there HAVE been a few incidents in football and hurling this sesson that have been worse and which have been glossed over.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9706 - 07/02/2022 20:43:52    2399160

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Replying To essmac:  "Thanks - well said.

There wasn't a blow struck. Pushing and shoving. 5 points:

1. Even O'Rourke admitted that it was 6 of one and half a dozen of the other - if reds are now being dished out for this sort of thing, then Armagh should have had at least as many. Can anyone give a logical explanation why Tyrone got 4 times as many reds?
2. There was a very similar melee in the previous night's Dublin-Kerry game. It would have been natural for the Sunday Game to note the wildly different treatment of that similar incident. Instead, RTE didn't even show it in its analysis of the Dublin Kerry game, and not a word was spoken about it. I was waiting to see what they would say about it - and then nothing. The selective reporting, the bias, the double standards are hanging out of the "national" broadcaster; but that's old news.
3. Fitzmaurice said "it suited Tyrone to start it". That made no sense - if you're 4 points down with time running out, why would you start anything like that? That's what teams do when they're ahead …
4. O'Rourke's halo is as cheap as his opinions. Google Meath-Mayo 1996 to see boots flying in, elbows and fists - puts Sunday's handbags into perspective.
5. If reds are now being dished out for this kind of pushing and shoving, the CCC boys could take a look at the Kerry-Dublin melee and dish out a few - oh look, there go some pigs, flying overhead …

It's the lack of consistency that is concerning.

Does anyone for a second think that, during the rest of this season, any other team will get 4 reds for a pushing and shoving match wherein no blows were struck?

Last weekend, Tyrone had a perfectly valid wining score disallowed; and now this petty nonsense, designed to make life v difficult for them in the next weekend's game.

Mark my words, Tyrone will be on the wrong side of every 50:50 call in 2022."
But Tyrone did start it.

McGo72 (Donegal) - Posts: 67 - 07/02/2022 20:49:07    2399162

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Handbags, sticking in you for letting Mc Geeney go ."
Yeah, McGeeney has been so successful in the 9 years since he left us

jimski (Kildare) - Posts: 381 - 07/02/2022 20:57:17    2399165

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The five lads who got cards can't complain. The game was still on and each one of them got another player in a head lock (from behind in a the most cowardly way possible in some cases).
As far as I understand pulling a player to the ground via a headlock is a red card. Just because there are a kid of lads standing around pushing and shoving doesn't change that.
However, Tyrone have never given a fiddlers about the rules and will take it to court if they have to.

That will undermine the rules and the referees. Is that something the All Ireland champions should be doing?
The attitude in Tyrone to officials has always been poor, let no one pretend any different.

That Tyrone team should have been asking those Armagh lads for their All Ireland medals not bringing the game into disrepute just because they were a few points down in a nothing league match.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1130 - 08/02/2022 09:21:43    2399207

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Even if it's just 'handbags' (what an inane phrase) , that kind of melee mindset needs to be stamped out, and if it takes the *consistent* application of red cards to do it, fine.

Lads running half the length of the pitch to get involved when something kicks off is unsightly. If reds were administered to 3rd and subsequent men to get involved, players might think twice.

One of the biggest issue here is actually the negative image such events serve to perpetuate on the GAA and the game itself. When something like this happens, within GAA circles it gives rise to the old 'northern teams at it again' trope, but worse, it reaches farther than the GAA crowd into general news, and invariable reinforces the GAA 'country' gombeen narrative and all the pejoratives that come with that from the 'sophisticated' folk who like to point and laugh.

And the worst of all?

Watching the footage back on Sunday night, my wife pointed out the row of young people lined up just inside the fence at the very spot where the muppets decided to do stupid. What picture of acceptable onfield behaviour are these players painting for children who'll maybe think about replicating their heroes actions in the next U14 game? Not a pretty one, I'd say.

TearsIn85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 194 - 08/02/2022 09:32:51    2399210

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "The five lads who got cards can't complain. The game was still on and each one of them got another player in a head lock (from behind in a the most cowardly way possible in some cases).
As far as I understand pulling a player to the ground via a headlock is a red card. Just because there are a kid of lads standing around pushing and shoving doesn't change that.
However, Tyrone have never given a fiddlers about the rules and will take it to court if they have to.

That will undermine the rules and the referees. Is that something the All Ireland champions should be doing?
The attitude in Tyrone to officials has always been poor, let no one pretend any different.

That Tyrone team should have been asking those Armagh lads for their All Ireland medals not bringing the game into disrepute just because they were a few points down in a nothing league match."
So sledging them in other words - your saying Tyrone should do a bit more sledging and verbals? Did you see "each one of them" grab another player in a headlock?

benched (Tyrone) - Posts: 534 - 08/02/2022 09:34:49    2399211

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My feelings on the year so far. https://unofficialtyrone.wordpress.com/2022/02/07/should-we-be-worried-about-tyrones-poor-start-to-2022/

DasRoteHand (Tyrone) - Posts: 17 - 08/02/2022 09:38:33    2399213

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "There's definitely an air of "It's Tyrone and Armagh so everyone fill their boots" about particularly in the Southern media and some Gaels outside Ulster. It's the usual narrative. Having said this there were some pushing and shoving that maybe came under "involving yourself in a melee" so I can see why red cards were flashed. By the same token it wasn't the worst thing that's happened on a Gaelic pitch and there HAVE been a few incidents in football and hurling this sesson that have been worse and which have been glossed over."
Glossed over like the way you and other Ulster posters do with anything like this happens when it's a Ulster team?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 08/02/2022 10:11:47    2399226

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