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Stephen Rochford is the best Mayo manager since 1951. He focussed his attentions on trying to win the Sam Maguire. He took risks, made plenty of mistakes, but was willing to try to try something different if he thought it would give us the edge. He had us peaked for the 2016 and 2017 finals. Horan never had a Mayo team at it's season's peak for the final. A good coach to develop players to reach a high standard but not good enough to bring them to an All Ireland win. Rochford didn't do that either but was less cautious on gameday than Horan. The Mayo County Board should hang their heads in shame for the way they treated Stephen Rochford.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7927 - 22/04/2022 21:04:40 2412376 Link 2 |
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Can't agree with that. Changing goalkeeper for an All Ireland final replay was ridiculous and ended in tears. Nothing against Robbie btw who I always rated, but you can't switch goalkeepers like an outfield player. Why should the county board hang their heads in shame? Rochford got 3 years and it was time for a change. History is written by the winners. If we'd scored 2 of the 5 goal chances in last year's final I've no doubt we'd have won. That was down to the players, not Horan. MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 448 - 22/04/2022 21:47:44 2412388 Link 1 |
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Would agree with most of that. It's funny how some Mayo fans completely write off 3 championship losses to Galway because Rochford was aiming for Sam. Yet Horan loses a couple of league games to Tyrone and Kerry and it's a hanging offence!
MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 448 - 22/04/2022 21:50:56 2412392 Link 0 |
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very good post. Would like to see Rochford get a crack at Galway job. May the best team win on Sunday. suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1729 - 22/04/2022 21:55:53 2412395 Link 0 |
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It's also odd that Horan's defenders seem to forget that he has lost four All-Ireland finals, the last of which was a tactical shambles. Rochford has actually won All-Ireland titles as both a player and as a manager, albeit at club level. And I still contend that he was treated disgracefully in 2018, as the County Board couldn't even muster up the decency to tell him that the gig was up. Not the first time that they have ballsed up a managerial appointment process, either (remember the fiasco around McStay and McHale previously?). Win or lose on Sunday, my feeling is that things have gone a bit stale and that this will probably be JH's last year in the bainisteoir's bib. Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 23/04/2022 07:26:18 2412407 Link 0 |
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Looking at Galway team it's hard see anything but a mayo win by min 5 points Kickitout (Galway) - Posts: 1057 - 23/04/2022 09:31:04 2412420 Link 0 |
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I like Rochford and he deserved to get the Mayo job after winning with Corofin. However, the fact he didn't even win a league or connacht during his 3 years is a real black mark considering the players available around then. I always wondered what would have happened if we didn't get such a fortunate run through the qualifiers? Say we got drawn vs Dublin in the 16/17 quarter finals. It would have put a very different slant on those years being knocked out early. It probably is time for change at the end of this season. However, I don't see any obvious candidate right now. MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 448 - 23/04/2022 11:02:52 2412438 Link 0 |
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In the terms of best Mayo managers I've seen it's Horans hands down. Took on the job firstly after Mayo had lost to Sligo in Connacht and knocked out of the championship by Longford. First year had them playing in AI semi final and then back to back All-Ireland finals losing narrowly. Yondu (UK) - Posts: 845 - 23/04/2022 12:29:39 2412462 Link 1 |
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Fully agree about Stephen Rochford, Gleebo in terms of his parting being badly handled. Truth is, no one knows for sure what his approach would have been in terms of a rebuild. All we know is that JH took Mayo over from O'Mahony at a very low ebb and without drafting in a whole raft of players he transformed the mindset and culture. Stephen got the players during their peak years, but still couldn't get them over the line (not all his fault). In another era the Dubs would have lost their appetite after a couple of wins and set a marginally lower bar, and both may have managed to wring an AI out of all those attempts and the confidence of one win (monkey off our backs) would have been transformative. For instance, what we witnessed last year during the national anthem, where half of the Mayo players had their eyes shut trying to control their anxiety, wouldn't have happened, and the contrast with the eyes wide open Tyrone team to a man wouldn't have been so stark an indicator of how much weight of expectation weighs on our players. One AI win and that would be gone. James has now gone most of the way to assembling a whole new team and he's managed it while getting to two AI finals... I'd never have expected that to be a possibility and even Kerry couldn't manage the same transition. The neighbours have been in perpetual rebuild, with no shortage of talent, but poor systems and organisation. Same with the likes of Cork, so talent alone delivers hope and nothing else. Credit for the high standards has to go to James, plus a lot of support from administrators. I'm not blind to his past failings, the stubbornness to want to play things one way (which generally means the team playing off the cuff), however his refusal to accept poor standards is the flip side of that personality. If he departs the set-up entirely there's no obvious candidate who'll do all he does well and bring a little extra. None that I can think of right now. Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2521 - 23/04/2022 13:05:36 2412470 Link 0 |
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The peaking 'excuse'! Peaking a team for the earlier rounds and never for his 4 All Ireland finals in 7 years in charge isn't an excuse? Starting a final second half with an extra man and not taking the ame to the opposition because of the fear of getting thumped at the start of the second half like the last big game against them. A barometer for achievement. Sure let's celebrate getting to the last 4 consistently so. Why should we even bother not trying to improve, not be so predictable and look to actually win an All Ireland.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7927 - 23/04/2022 13:22:12 2412473 Link 1 |
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I had lost bit of confidence in Mayo winning after seeing the team named but seeing the Galway team thats named swung it back the way again. tommy132 (Mayo) - Posts: 635 - 23/04/2022 13:40:43 2412478 Link 1 |
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Keep James as manager but get Stephen Rochford as coach. Plenty of bouncing ideas off each other, maybe changing some selectors, a lot of agreement, agreeing to disagree but both have the best interest of Mayo football at heart. Compromise needed from both of them but if not now I think we'll miss a big opportunity that won't come around again for a long time.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7927 - 23/04/2022 13:51:28 2412480 Link 1 |
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Look, I'm not saying that James Horan hasn't done anything positive for Mayo football, certainly he has taken the team far from the bad days of 2010, has dominated Connacht and won an NFL, which isn't to be sniffed at in a Mayo context. But IMO he has also fallen short tactically several times on the biggest day, with what by our standards would be a very strong team. IMO the top teams (Kerry, Tyrone, perhaps some others) have figured us out tactically. Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 23/04/2022 14:36:25 2412489 Link 0 |
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Of course Horan has made some mistakes, the same as any manager who's around for 7 or 8 years. I don't buy this narrative that everyone has figured us out tactically. How did we get to the league final and the last two all Ireland finals? How did we have 4 or 5 clear goal chances vs Tyrone last September if they had us figured out? Anyway, this is really a discussion for the off season which hopefully won't be for another few months. MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 448 - 23/04/2022 17:15:50 2412522 Link 0 |
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Kerry are the only team that wanted to get to the league final. We played one good game v a poor Dublin team, not impressive in other games but we didn't have a settled team as Horan always looking ahead to tomorrow. Galway were tested in Division 2, every team fighting for promotion or avoid relegation. Very few Division 1 teams going full tilt ahead of the championship. The missed penalty was the only clear goal chance we had in the Tyrone final. We had half chances and took none of them. Tommy's the best of those, blazed wide. Tyrone defence well able to cope with it. If Aido's chance had fallen to Tommy or Ryan or even Mattie Ruane theirdefence would havevreacted differently because they knew the threat they have compared to Aido close to goal. They took took their two chances at their ease. We carried the ball into traffic and got turned over way too easily. Too much expected after we beat a Dublin team at the end of their great reign. But also I think nearly everyone outside of Tyrone underestimated how good they were and still are. We need some sort of kicking game, some sort of variation other than a running game if we're going to go far in this year's championship. It's not like we don't have players who can catch and kick a football. Mightn't be needed tomorrow but later it's good to have a few plans for the summer. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7927 - 23/04/2022 17:48:48 2412536 Link 1 |
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what were expecting from a Galway team before you looked at it? Gleeson back in goal he was first choice last year. McDaid named on the bench and may start, other than that it's arguably Galways strongest team. I'm expecting a high scoring competitive contest decided on fine margins.
The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 4023 - 23/04/2022 17:58:40 2412538 Link 0 |
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Very few teams in division 1 going full tilt?! So Kildare weren't trying to win their last game to avoid relegation? Or Monaghan/Donegal/Armagh didn't care about winning either? Not buying that whatsoever. The goal chances in the final were as good as your going to get at that level. We took none of them which cost us the game. Maybe there was too much expectation after beating Dublin, in which case the constant criticism of Horan over the last 6 months is even more bizarre. MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 448 - 23/04/2022 18:30:11 2412543 Link 0 |
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I'm not saying JH was the one who came up with the idea, but the first time I recall any team using the systematic "high press" was Mayo v the Dubs in the league meeting in 2012, which Mayo won fairly comfortably. I also recall that when they met later in the same summer, Enda Varley doing things to distract Cluxton and slow down his restarts. So it wouldn't be accurate imo to say that tactical innovations haven't been brought into the game by James and his coaches (some of the early ones might have been Cian O'Neill ironically), maybe fairer to say that when the plan starts to unravel a bit the sideline doesn't react to "interfere", but leaves the players to find a way. Sometimes they do (even some of the early 2022 league games showed this) and other times they don't and probably can't if they've been set up like they were v Kerry in the league final. That's one where the holes below the water line were obvious enough fairly quickly, but no fixes were applied. James and his coaches aren't blind, so you'd have to conclude they believed the players to change things weren't on the bench (and we had a mad bench with one defender) or they didn't particularly mind that the result was becoming obvious and the margin was the only thing at stake. For me it doesn't matter, as the shape and preparedness for the championship are paramount. On today and having seen the teams, both sides now have lines which on paper are flawed. Mayo have a lot of good players in defence but not listed in their best positions. There also isn't great pace at the back, with only EMcL a true speedster. Still, they won't be as pedestrian as the league final. I don't trust Mullin to curtail someone like Walsh. Mullin is a ball player and man-marking goes against the grain for him. Aidan at midfield will need to do a job and resist his tendency to exceed the brief. If Aidan pops up at ff, it'll mean we're desperate or Galway are so far behind it doesn't matter. I don't see this being anything but a tight game, so Aidan should do what he does best, which is tackle, win turnovers and distribute quickly, preferably to players breaking into space or showing for a foot pass (no AOS solo runs please... no wasting energy doing things other players can do better and quicker). Still thinking the result could go the neighbour's way with so many match fitness question marks all around the pitch and bench for Mayo. Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2521 - 24/04/2022 11:02:05 2412679 Link 1 |
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They were definitely trying Dan but keeping the eyes on the bigger prize. Heading down the road now soon, we'll have to be at the top of our game to win today. I think we'll do it, maybe make it hard for ourselves but with a few more experienced players than Galway we'll get there. Maigh Eo Abú! GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7927 - 24/04/2022 13:23:28 2412716 Link 1 |
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Well lads, what say ye now? Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 25/04/2022 10:32:56 2412968 Link 1 |