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National Hurling League 2022

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Replying To Canuck:  "Limerick have obviously have been the best team in the championship by a long shot and a joy to watch. I don't base my opinion on the games they have lost but how they are playing. It is not that easy to turn it off and on. Maybe we are all been lurched into a sense of false security and they are just kicking their training into high gear. Limerick's first championship game will be a huge indicator. I agree that teams may beat each other out and the fourth or fifth team probably as good as the three in front of them. We look good at the moment but Tipp will come back to Walsh Park all guns blazing and if we lose that one it would be a major set back. It is a real shark tank and one is only guessing what will happen."
Just listening to Anthony Daly's podcast at the moment and TJ Ryan made that very point regarding Limerick, the 1st 2 championship games (they play Waterford in Gaelic Grounds 6 days after Cork) will tell alot, if there impressive it will be seen as Kiely and Kinnerck timed the run perfectly, if there not firing then the narrative will be well the signs were there in the league.

bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 08/03/2022 14:43:58    2404470

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Replying To wexico15:  "Just listening to Anthony Daly's podcast at the moment and TJ Ryan made that very point regarding Limerick, the 1st 2 championship games (they play Waterford in Gaelic Grounds 6 days after Cork) will tell alot, if there impressive it will be seen as Kiely and Kinnerck timed the run perfectly, if there not firing then the narrative will be well the signs were there in the league."
If they lose both those games I'd say they will struggle to get out of Munster. I dont think they will lose both those games though.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13886 - 08/03/2022 15:33:55    2404486

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Replying To wexico15:  "Just listening to Anthony Daly's podcast at the moment and TJ Ryan made that very point regarding Limerick, the 1st 2 championship games (they play Waterford in Gaelic Grounds 6 days after Cork) will tell alot, if there impressive it will be seen as Kiely and Kinnerck timed the run perfectly, if there not firing then the narrative will be well the signs were there in the league."
Ya that's it in a nutshell. Limerick are only back since start of January so to expect them to be at the pitch of some of the teams who I've Been told are training since early November was never going to happen.. the league was used by kiely to get the fitness up, getting the fringe lads game time and get some competitive minutes into the younger guys. This has been achieved. From a limerick perspective the bonus is the hand that cork and clare have shown in relation to how they'll set up come the championship. If the retreat of the team back behind the 40 was sprung on them in the championship they my not have had the heads up to counter.

I think the likes of cork/wexford/Waterford are flying now and it's very understandable for their own specific reasons why they are. Its hard to sustain that throughout a 5/6 month period for the most part.

It's intriguing how it'll pan out in 6 weeks.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 08/03/2022 16:36:41    2404504

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I think it will be Limerick Waterford and Cork coming out of Munster
. I think Limerick will beat Cork away and having Waterford at home might just swing it their way.

I am less sure about Leinster. It will be 3 of Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin, and Galway but which 3? I think Wexford will beat us in the first game. The fact that we are not playing Dublin in Parnell Park (as opposed to the fact we have a home venue) might see us get past Dublin and having Kilkenny at home too could make the difference. I'm going to say it will be Dublin to miss out.

In any event I think it will be a Munster team winning the All Ireland and if that turns out to be the case I hope it will be Waterford.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1953 - 08/03/2022 17:23:36    2404514

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Replying To daveboy:  "Ya that's it in a nutshell. Limerick are only back since start of January so to expect them to be at the pitch of some of the teams who I've Been told are training since early November was never going to happen.. the league was used by kiely to get the fitness up, getting the fringe lads game time and get some competitive minutes into the younger guys. This has been achieved. From a limerick perspective the bonus is the hand that cork and clare have shown in relation to how they'll set up come the championship. If the retreat of the team back behind the 40 was sprung on them in the championship they my not have had the heads up to counter.

I think the likes of cork/wexford/Waterford are flying now and it's very understandable for their own specific reasons why they are. Its hard to sustain that throughout a 5/6 month period for the most part.

It's intriguing how it'll pan out in 6 weeks."
As I said before 1 difference I think ye have compared to last year is last year even with up and down form ye still had a statement performance in the league against Cork, you haven't produced 1 yet this year, I taught it might have been Sunday as ye pretty much went strongest available factoring in injuries and suspensions, ye had 12 former or current all stars while your alot more qualified than me to judge if the 3 u20s will figure much in the summer. Time will tell weather it matters or not.

From what I heard Wexford weren't flogging themselves early and given most of the panel were playing club football into November I doubt they were back to early,80-90 % of the panel are dual players at club level, actually think alot of the training in December and early January was disrupted with Covid and Omicron emerging but that doubt they were the only panel effected with this.

bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 08/03/2022 18:15:10    2404526

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Replying To daveboy:  "Ya that's it in a nutshell. Limerick are only back since start of January so to expect them to be at the pitch of some of the teams who I've Been told are training since early November was never going to happen.. the league was used by kiely to get the fitness up, getting the fringe lads game time and get some competitive minutes into the younger guys. This has been achieved. From a limerick perspective the bonus is the hand that cork and clare have shown in relation to how they'll set up come the championship. If the retreat of the team back behind the 40 was sprung on them in the championship they my not have had the heads up to counter.

I think the likes of cork/wexford/Waterford are flying now and it's very understandable for their own specific reasons why they are. Its hard to sustain that throughout a 5/6 month period for the most part.

It's intriguing how it'll pan out in 6 weeks."
On the puckouts was noticeable in Wexford Park we adopted those retreating tactics too, will be interesting in championship, i remember last year Kilkenny got huge dividends against us in the league by conceding the puckouts as we repeatedly carried the ball into cul de sacs, when we met in Leinster semi final we were alot sharper moving the ball threw the lines and it was noticeable Kilkenny then starting pushing up on the puckout after the 1st water break.

bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 08/03/2022 20:31:03    2404536

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Replying To Canuck:  "We've had the players in the past. Mind you not as many as the current panel. In the past decent players like Tommy Ryan, Brian O'Halloran and some others had no option but to retire as they would not be good enough with what is coming off the bench today. Even Shane Bennett is a long shot after looking like a huge prospect and the better of the three one time. He stepped away for two years after 2017 when he was way too young to have been thrown out in that cauldron. Both things have effected him. Patrick Curran however stuck with it and is excellent now. Again thrown in too young and injury plagued earlier because of it. I said four years ago that Billy Kiely would be a sensation down the road. He is still two years away from his best. A Tipp player hit him yesterday and fell off him like a match stick. He is the second coming of Dan but I think a bit tougher. .
We have won nothing yet and no All-Ireland in 63 years. I believe it is physiological game may be our achilles tendent and I would not be comfortable except we were 10 points or more ahead in the last five minutes of a final. Living in hope.
No disrespect to Tip or Limerick but I believe Cork, Clare and ourselves will come out of Munster. Clare have stumbled on a good team because of injury. I see a real back bone to the team now and the forced additions look good."
I am surprised that you are picking the 3 teams based on league form. Munster as always is pretty open. Waterford have to play Limerick in Gaelic grounds where they have the worst record of any team. So with that in mind, I see Limerick topping the group, Waterford 2nd and the battle for the 3rd spot is wide open. League will count for very little in late Spring early summer.

Clubgaa (Limerick) - Posts: 879 - 08/03/2022 21:10:21    2404544

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Replying To wexico15:  "On the puckouts was noticeable in Wexford Park we adopted those retreating tactics too, will be interesting in championship, i remember last year Kilkenny got huge dividends against us in the league by conceding the puckouts as we repeatedly carried the ball into cul de sacs, when we met in Leinster semi final we were alot sharper moving the ball threw the lines and it was noticeable Kilkenny then starting pushing up on the puckout after the 1st water break."
Ya I'd agree that it's the sharpness that will unlock a lot of that mass defending. I've heard this point regarding limerick having their statement performance v cork in league last year but people forget cork played a weak enough team that day v limerick and for me can't be compared to this year but I understand the point that limerick haven't beaten anyone yet. Its relevant to a certain degree.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 08/03/2022 21:41:44    2404547

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Replying To Canuck:  "Limerick have obviously have been the best team in the championship by a long shot and a joy to watch. I don't base my opinion on the games they have lost but how they are playing. It is not that easy to turn it off and on. Maybe we are all been lurched into a sense of false security and they are just kicking their training into high gear. Limerick's first championship game will be a huge indicator. I agree that teams may beat each other out and the fourth or fifth team probably as good as the three in front of them. We look good at the moment but Tipp will come back to Walsh Park all guns blazing and if we lose that one it would be a major set back. It is a real shark tank and one is only guessing what will happen."
I just think that this year isnt all too dissimiliar than last year for Limerick. I was very confident they wouldnt win the All Ireland at this stage last year and how wrong could i be. Theyre so strong from 1-9 and as the Limerick poster said Richie English has also been top class in the league. Two key aspects for me for Limerick is the form of Lynch and the inaccuracy of Gillane as a free taker - but that has yet to come close to being an issue. The red cards may also be a factor and if there were 3 lads at the start of the year you'd have picked to get red cards it would certainly be the 3 who have got them and it seems they may not learn until they actually cost their team dearly. I have always said that like KK in theior prime they have about 18 top players and not the panel of two 15s like people seem to have been suggesting - but 18 in reality is what will get you over the line. Having said all that I still can't see them not winning Liam McCarthy.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 09/03/2022 08:29:43    2404549

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One big aspent of this years league is lazy aggressive tackling by almost all teams. Off the top of my head I think of incidents by Tipp, Limerick, Cork and Galway players and I know I'm missing a few more. Robert Byrne hit a Waterford player an excellnetly timed shoulder for Tipp at the weekend which is a rare skill these days - there has been numerous incidents of shoulders to the head that were worse than Richie Hogans on Barrett in 2019. Most are surprisingly not getting punished and its a sign that hurlers no longer know how to tackle properly. Limerick players are getting a lot of attention and most of it is justified in my opinion but there are other teams that are as bad if not worse at times. I love the physcial aspect of hurling but its awful to watch seeing intercounty players failing to execute such basic skills.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 09/03/2022 10:00:47    2404559

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Replying To tiobraid:  "One big aspent of this years league is lazy aggressive tackling by almost all teams. Off the top of my head I think of incidents by Tipp, Limerick, Cork and Galway players and I know I'm missing a few more. Robert Byrne hit a Waterford player an excellnetly timed shoulder for Tipp at the weekend which is a rare skill these days - there has been numerous incidents of shoulders to the head that were worse than Richie Hogans on Barrett in 2019. Most are surprisingly not getting punished and its a sign that hurlers no longer know how to tackle properly. Limerick players are getting a lot of attention and most of it is justified in my opinion but there are other teams that are as bad if not worse at times. I love the physcial aspect of hurling but its awful to watch seeing intercounty players failing to execute such basic skills."
Excellent point. I think it's to do with the size of the lads these days. Kilkenny raised the bar for physicality in the 00s then tipp met like for like in the early 10s. Galway then took it up a notch and subsequently limerick. Lads are getting bigger but technique is dipping which is resulting in the cards being handed out. Not sure I've seen a really sinister one yet this year bar one exception which I'm not going to name. All in all hurling is a fantastic spectacle in the championship but i feel a few scores get settled in the league with little or no consequence later on. Perhaps a bit like the refereeing at times.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 09/03/2022 11:07:23    2404583

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Replying To Canuck:  "We've had the players in the past. Mind you not as many as the current panel. In the past decent players like Tommy Ryan, Brian O'Halloran and some others had no option but to retire as they would not be good enough with what is coming off the bench today. Even Shane Bennett is a long shot after looking like a huge prospect and the better of the three one time. He stepped away for two years after 2017 when he was way too young to have been thrown out in that cauldron. Both things have effected him. Patrick Curran however stuck with it and is excellent now. Again thrown in too young and injury plagued earlier because of it. I said four years ago that Billy Kiely would be a sensation down the road. He is still two years away from his best. A Tipp player hit him yesterday and fell off him like a match stick. He is the second coming of Dan but I think a bit tougher. .
We have won nothing yet and no All-Ireland in 63 years. I believe it is physiological game may be our achilles tendent and I would not be comfortable except we were 10 points or more ahead in the last five minutes of a final. Living in hope.
No disrespect to Tip or Limerick but I believe Cork, Clare and ourselves will come out of Munster. Clare have stumbled on a good team because of injury. I see a real back bone to the team now and the forced additions look good."
Canuck, you could well be right that either Tipp or Limk won't make it out of Munster. While I greatly respect your overall insight of the game, I'm a bit surprised to see you discount Limk, even Tipp. Munster is a minefield of course, and anything could happen. I would put Waterford in pole position though to win Munster. Cork not being at home, except to Limerick, might prove costly yet.

I can't wait for it all to start. Hurling is almost up there with baseball at this stage.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2096 - 09/03/2022 13:19:05    2404608

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Replying To wexico15:  "On the puckouts was noticeable in Wexford Park we adopted those retreating tactics too, will be interesting in championship, i remember last year Kilkenny got huge dividends against us in the league by conceding the puckouts as we repeatedly carried the ball into cul de sacs, when we met in Leinster semi final we were alot sharper moving the ball threw the lines and it was noticeable Kilkenny then starting pushing up on the puckout after the 1st water break."
Wexico. 'threw the lines'?? . Was that a Freudian slip? It is certainly something Limerick have often been accused of, although Cork and some other teams are not bad at it either.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4467 - 09/03/2022 13:20:49    2404610

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Wexico. 'threw the lines'?? . Was that a Freudian slip? It is certainly something Limerick have often been accused of, although Cork and some other teams are not bad at it either."
Think your overthinking it, obviously I mean through the lines, as regards throwing the ball I think every team is guilty of it and I have no issue with it being clamped down, coached and players have been taking the **** for far too long.

bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 09/03/2022 13:51:55    2404616

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Canuck, you could well be right that either Tipp or Limk won't make it out of Munster. While I greatly respect your overall insight of the game, I'm a bit surprised to see you discount Limk, even Tipp. Munster is a minefield of course, and anything could happen. I would put Waterford in pole position though to win Munster. Cork not being at home, except to Limerick, might prove costly yet.

I can't wait for it all to start. Hurling is almost up there with baseball at this stage."
To be honest I would not bet the farm on anyone making it or not. Momentum in the championship also is a big thing and that is why the first game is so important. Lose it and the pressure is on. Limerick get that win and the swagger will return. If we can not get there I am good with them racking up some more glory. We look good at present but it is a long road that does not have a few twists.
Will there be baseball this year ? As much as I like it has a few notches to come even close to hurling.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2868 - 09/03/2022 13:56:04    2404621

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Replying To wexico15:  "Think your overthinking it, obviously I mean through the lines, as regards throwing the ball I think every team is guilty of it and I have no issue with it being clamped down, coached and players have been taking the **** for far too long."
The penalty for throwing the ball should be an indirect free rather than a conventional free. It slows the game down waiting for a keeper/free taker to trot up and down the pitch.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2085 - 09/03/2022 13:58:20    2404622

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Canuck, you could well be right that either Tipp or Limk won't make it out of Munster. While I greatly respect your overall insight of the game, I'm a bit surprised to see you discount Limk, even Tipp. Munster is a minefield of course, and anything could happen. I would put Waterford in pole position though to win Munster. Cork not being at home, except to Limerick, might prove costly yet.

I can't wait for it all to start. Hurling is almost up there with baseball at this stage."
Lad there is no major league baseball at the minute on account of greed. At least in an ordinary offseason thered be the chance, albeit slim in my case, of your team signing a good player or 2 but even that's halted with the lockout. Theres literally " nothing to see here" in Americas game.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13886 - 09/03/2022 13:58:23    2404623

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What do people make of Cono O'Donovans proposed rule change for the handpass? Personally I think its a farcical sugeestion - its a skill that hurlers use regularly but often not possible - if the hand holding the hurl isnt free which it isnt in a lot of occasions then you'll end up fouling the ball more often than not. Personally I think its a ridiculous suggestion.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 09/03/2022 14:41:21    2404633

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Replying To tiobraid:  "What do people make of Cono O'Donovans proposed rule change for the handpass? Personally I think its a farcical sugeestion - its a skill that hurlers use regularly but often not possible - if the hand holding the hurl isnt free which it isnt in a lot of occasions then you'll end up fouling the ball more often than not. Personally I think its a ridiculous suggestion."
I will repeat myself. It is dealing with the symptom not the cause. It's the hands of the challengers is the problem. Stopping lifting the hand never mind pulling it back to strike. It is really funny how close hockey and hurling are when it comes to requiring rules. They had the same problem with grabbing around the neck and pulling back. Now when you go in to challenge if a hand interferes with the player they call it. The GAA have a problem at looking at things in isolation that makes you think the people who review are not very competent. Lets not even talk about last years farce with taking away a scoring chance. It was used to the cost of Clare and completely ignored afterwards.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2868 - 09/03/2022 15:09:47    2404640

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Replying To Canuck:  "I will repeat myself. It is dealing with the symptom not the cause. It's the hands of the challengers is the problem. Stopping lifting the hand never mind pulling it back to strike. It is really funny how close hockey and hurling are when it comes to requiring rules. They had the same problem with grabbing around the neck and pulling back. Now when you go in to challenge if a hand interferes with the player they call it. The GAA have a problem at looking at things in isolation that makes you think the people who review are not very competent. Lets not even talk about last years farce with taking away a scoring chance. It was used to the cost of Clare and completely ignored afterwards."
I dont think its correct to say thats the cause. Many occasions a disputed handpass is when the player is not being tackled. I dont really understand how you can say someones other hand being held affects their ability to handpass with ball holding hand. It would definitely affect their ability to do under Donovans suggestion.
Or am I interpreting you incorrectly?

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 09/03/2022 15:59:12    2404645

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