(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post
|
A lot of people - as with the call for hand passing to be banned or severely restricted in football too - haven't thought through the consequences. The game is played at far higher pace and intensity and the physical element is vastly more important than even when teams like Clare and Wexford pushed the barrier in 90s on that aspect through their preparation while combining it with all the skill sets. So what are players supposed to do if - and they invariably are - immediately attempted to be closed down by 2, 3 or even 4 opponents? If they can't swing the stick are they supposed to just drop the ball and hand it to opposition? It does not affect the game as a spectacle and teams do not hand pass from one end of field to other as some would have you believe! There are bigger issues to be tackled imho and they are not huge either. BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3547 - 02/03/2022 10:26:50 2403393 Link 0 |
|
" So what are players supposed to do if - and they invariably are - immediately attempted to be closed down by 2, 3 or even 4 opponents? If they can't swing the stick are they supposed to just drop the ball and hand it to opposition? " That is the problem with the GAA they do things in isolation. Not alone can a player not swing his stick he can not lift his hand never mind bring it back to do a striking action. Except he wants to give the ball away. Also that is why batting the ball forward has come in because they know the free hand of an opponent is going to drag their arm to stop a swing. It is simple really if you are not going to control the third man in, then penalize any free hands in these rucks. It will stop the dangerous neck choking also but no jump on the hand pass without dealing with the cause. Typically. Just like last years farce with the prevention of a scoring opportunity. I have been watching hurling too long to remember and love my past heroes. The reality id they would not be close to the skill and athleticism of current day players. The entertainment for the viewer is up a notch also. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3046 - 02/03/2022 15:03:10 2403482 Link 2 |
|
He claims baseball to be his forte! What are his stats based on, I wonder.
baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 02/03/2022 15:50:52 2403503 Link 0 |
|
I havent a clue. Nor does he I suspect! Theres still a lockout going on in MLB. The 1st 2 series of the season are already cancelled and I think there will be more to follow. We are going to occupy alot more of his headspace for a few months yet the way it is looking!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15831 - 02/03/2022 16:18:25 2403511 Link 0 |
|
Well, it's like comparing Jessie Owens and Usain Bolt really. Owens' best time was best part of a second slower than Bolt's. Lots of things; increase in average size (Owen's was 5' 10 weighted probably 11 stone. Bolt is 6' 5 and 15 stone?), better training, nutrition, equipment, faster track etc. If Owens had benefit of that on top of natural ability then he'd still be among best. Same would apply to hurlers of the past surely? BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3547 - 02/03/2022 16:41:53 2403517 Link 2 |
|
As long as he doesn't occupy our's we'll be grand!
baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 02/03/2022 17:09:37 2403527 Link 0 |
|
Yes indeed Viking. In that 1999 Cork team from numbers 9 to 15 they were only two players over about 5ft nine. They simple had to use short puck outs and hand passing to retain possession.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4495 - 02/03/2022 17:50:54 2403533 Link 0 |
|
Agree and hard to make comparison. There were and are great players playing the game. Unfortunately some from counties who never get to play at the top level. That's another discussion. I guess it is true also that there are players in the top counties who don't make it to the top level because of the competitiveness. All I can say is I have seen players from the so called weaker county who would match the stars on the top teams.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3046 - 02/03/2022 18:15:19 2403535 Link 0 |
|
Thank you, Tash. I only provide the most qualitative insights. Hope Wexford keep up the good hurling for the rest of the year.
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2232 - 02/03/2022 18:40:59 2403538 Link 0 |
|
Not too sure about that Doylerwex. Wexford appear more consistent in their performances. Galway are way too flaky to be any way confident of where they're truly at.
Shocs07 (Limerick) - Posts: 374 - 02/03/2022 19:47:31 2403546 Link 0 |
|
"Self praise is no praise" is what we say in Ireland. Not sure if they have the same motto in baseball land!
baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 03/03/2022 10:47:15 2403583 Link 0 |
|
No Baire, I don't think so. The Americans are big into self affirmation, where as we seem incapable of accepting a compliment, lest appear 'big headed'. I prefer the American way in preference to our tendency to very false modesty.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4495 - 03/03/2022 12:09:04 2403605 Link 0 |
|
Certainly true of the likes of Deane but I'd imagine that the Cork backs were at least the equal of the other top teams in physique? Dominant even in that regard for a few years. It's no secret that when Cody came in he saw one of Kilkenny's key areas that needed to be addressed after the relative famine of the previous decade was to put in big men wherever he could. I remember in 1996, I think, we put it up to the Cats physically in Leinster semi final and were in it up to last 5/6 minutes but a few years later they were bullying us off the field. Adapt or die! BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3547 - 03/03/2022 12:18:59 2403608 Link 0 |
|
Picking up on the comment from Canuck, who always comes across as a fair man and a man who knows his hurling, "I have been watching hurling too long to remember and love my past heroes. The reality id they would not be close to the skill and athleticism of current day players. The entertainment for the viewer is up a notch also", and on Barney Grant's reply, above, I decided to put the theory to the test. I picked a team from the middle past to compare with today's hurlers, the Cork 3-in-a-row of 1978: not too recent as to make the comparison too like for like, or too distant that no one remembers (except OTM and Rockies, compliments actually, lads). How many of that fine team would make modern day hurlers? Here's my analysis: M. Coleman: I doubt it. He never won an All-Star and his puck-outs were never anything to write home about. Btw, Ger Cunningham who followed him would most likely be great in the modern game. B. Murphy: A difficult one to call. Would he have the legs for the modern game? On the balance of probabilities, and that he proved that he could do it in football as well, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and say "up to the modern game". M. O'Doherty: too clean, too much of a hurler. Christy Heffernan showed that in '82. O'Doherty would be akin to Downey the current Cork FB, good in the air, but not up to it. J. Horgan (RIP): He'd be at home in any era, and his crisp striking of the ball could greatly benefit the modern day forward…cross angled balls. He'd be a mix between Finn and Nash, as he'd all the qualities of both. D. MacCurtain: would be blown out of the modern game; similar to many of the wristy, skillful modern day Cork hurlers. J. Crowley: He'd relish the physicality and would thrive in the modern game; no better man Johnny to get the job done. D. Coughlan: As fine a hurler as ever I saw. Denis had it all; skill, speed, strength, bravery and quality and an elegant grace that few players have. He'd lord wing-back in the modern game (and modern-day football, too). T. Cashman: similar to MacCurtain, too light. He'd be bossed around like Luke Meade, Tim O'Mahony or Mark Coleman. P. Moylan: he wouldn't have the engine for the modern game. There'd be a bit of a Bill Cooper about him. He'd give it a fair shot I'd say, but would come up that bit short. J. Barry Murphy: a great favorite of mine, but I'd have to question his ability for the modern game. He could be used to mighty effect in the last 20 minutes or so, when the game would open up (a bit like Limerick use Pat Ryan). G. McCarthy: He'd have both the skill and steel for today's way of doing things. I could actually see him being a Cian Lynch of the modern game, such was McCarthy's wrist work and positioning; one of Cork's and the game's finest ever. T. Crowley: I couldn't see Tim make it. Yes, he'd have the physicality but first touch? The big men like Will O'Donoghue and Hegarty would be liabilities without their sublime touches in the modern game. Tim would be akin to the Cahalane's, Aiden Walsh or Lorcan McLoughlin of recent times; strong but not effective. And as well, when push ever came to shove against the great Frank Cummins, Tim didn't either push nor shove (no slight on Tim, as Frank was one of the greats of all time). C. McCarthy: I couldn't see champagne Charlie make it, even for all his skill and silken touches. He'd be blown away, and wouldn't have the leg work to track a back man, say in the same way that Peter Casey does. R. Cummins: He gets the benefit of the doubt, similar to Brian Murphy, as he could cut the mustard in both codes, so I'd say Ray would knuckle down to the modern way of hurling. What I hold against him is the many times I saw little Fan Larkin, a foot shorter than Cummins, bate him out the gate. Still, Fan Larkin, like Frank Cummins, was one of the all time greats. S. O'Leary (RIP): like JBM, I couldn't see him up to 70 minutes in the modern game. He could be great, a la Shane Dowling of Limerick, if sprung with 15 minutes or so, to go; a match winner. I didn't assess the 1978 subs: J. Allen, E. O'Donoghue, but couldn't see either cut it in today's game. So, 6 of the starting 15 in 1978 would be up to the starting 15 in the modern game of hurling, and two of those are a toss of a coin decisions, with two more making the 20 man squad. It means that at least 7 of that team in 1978 wouldn't cut the ice in today's hurling game. This is a fair and objective analysis. However, my research is not based on scientifically proven evidence. foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2232 - 03/03/2022 12:31:58 2403613 Link 0 |
|
I wasn't talking about accepting a compliment or false modesty I was referring to people who praise themselves, people who blow their own trumpet. Where I'm from a person's work, sporting ability or whatever did the talking - if a craftsman for example did wonderful work, people praised the work and that was sufficient praise for the craftsman, there was no need or desire on his part to blow his own trumpet. baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 03/03/2022 12:53:56 2403615 Link 0 |
|
I think somewhere in the middle comes across best. Quiet humility can be a good trait. It shouldn't mean a lack of confidence, internal or external. At the same time false modesty or conceited behaviour is obvious and off-putting.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2321 - 03/03/2022 12:56:31 2403616 Link 0 |
|
Wasn't 96 anyway Barney we bet ye in the semi final after beating Kilkenny in the quarter
Wexfordgaa (Wexford) - Posts: 364 - 03/03/2022 13:29:51 2403628 Link 0 |
|
1995. It was double header. Yourselves and Offaly in one, us and Cats in the other. Shows you how memory can play tricks too as Kilkenny beat us by 9 points! It was close for a while :-) Huge crowd. Had to bring people across the pitch to cater with overflow in stand. BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3547 - 03/03/2022 13:41:15 2403632 Link 0 |
|
That was 97 we were just after winning the all Ireland and wexford brought a huge crowd to Dublin. Fitz Henry had to make an unbelievable save from billy Dooley to save us from a draw Wexfordgaa (Wexford) - Posts: 364 - 03/03/2022 13:48:42 2403635 Link 1 |
|
Same as.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15831 - 03/03/2022 13:51:17 2403637 Link 0 |