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Teams will earn the right. The 4 semi finalists in Intermediate this year will know at the start of this year that by reaching the semifinals they will get promoted to senior. Likewise all the Intermediate A clubs will know many months before the Championship throws in that reaching the Quarter finals will earn them Intermediate status.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11841 - 07/01/2022 17:03:26 2394001 Link 0 |
I beg to differ. Mathematically speaking, if there are 12 teams in one grade, and ten of them are competitive, adding four more is only going to make the relegation section more of a lottery. Even when the sixteen-team format was in most recently, there were more mediocre and poor teams just hoping to win one game and thus stay up than there were upstarts looking to upset the apple-cart. I think the competitiveness of the championships, senior hurling especially, have been revitalised by reducing the number of competitors to twelve. It's a bit like the European Football Championships- it's too condensed now with teams making up the numbers compared to it's earlier iteration of having sixteen teams at more or less an equal footing. beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1417 - 07/01/2022 21:30:44 2394037 Link 0 |
My proposal isnt just about making the championship more competitive in football or hurling at the very top. Whether theres 10, 12, 16 or 20 teams there will only be 6 or 8 who would have a good chance of winning it in any given year and that's if we are very lucky. Historically that's always been the case. Clubs cant sign players so winning out does depend on getting a good crop of good players all at the same time. Not easy. What a16 team format should do is give more players at more different clubs more chances to play against better opponents which should improve their indevidual hurling or football on one hand and motivate them to try to get fitter and hone their skills more to match these better opponents on the other hand.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11841 - 08/01/2022 14:17:17 2394092 Link 0 |
My proposal isnt just about making the championship more competitive in football or hurling at the very top. Whether theres 10, 12, 16 or 20 teams there will only be 6 or 8 who would have a good chance of winning it in any given year and that's if we are very lucky. Historically that's always been the case. Clubs cant sign players so winning out does depend on getting a good crop of good players all at the same time. Not easy. What a16 team format should do is give more players at more different clubs more chances to play against better opponents which should improve their indevidual hurling or football on one hand and motivate them to try to get fitter and hone their skills more to match these better opponents on the other hand.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11841 - 08/01/2022 14:17:31 2394093 Link 0 |
I agree with beano here. My own "home" club (not the one I'm involved with now, since I ended up moving to a different part of the county) were senior in both codes for close on 30 years when there usually used to be 16 in the grade. In one code in particular, it was generally by finishing 14th or 15th best in any given year. When senior was reduced to 12, they rapidly went down, and in all fairness and no disrespect to anyone, they're still a long way from being "a senior club". Even reaching an intermediate final a few years ago, it was clear they wouldn't make a good senior club. The team that beat them there was relegated again a year or two afterwards, and hasn't been back in senior since then either. Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2245 - 08/01/2022 21:32:55 2394149 Link 0 |
There will always be yoyo clubs Pikeman. At least with a 16 team format instead of 1 or 2 clubs nailed on to go down every year there will be a better chance of them staying up for a few years. This will additionally motivate all of the weaker clubs to try harder as they will have a better chance of staying up. Thereby incentivising them to get better which will hopefully have the knock on effect of these clubs closing the gap on the very top ones. And that following on down through Intermediate and Junior. Obviously it does depend on good players coming up from underage but at least it might encourage lads to stick at their football or hurling into adulthood if they see their club improving year on year by retaining their status be it Senior or Intermediate.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11841 - 09/01/2022 12:07:19 2394173 Link 0 |
So are there any actual new proposals that could be looked at this year? the discussion as usual has gone on a tangent on the merits of 12 V 16 in each grade none of which is relevant to the original point - Proposals to be submitted by Friday i believe. fearcliste (Wexford) - Posts: 178 - 11/01/2022 11:48:32 2394507 Link 0 |
Championships should be left at 12. Keeps them competitive. The clubs looking to make them 16 are clubs not good enough to win the actual championship they are in or have got relegated eg. Fethard considering proposing 16 teams. countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 642 - 11/01/2022 13:27:52 2394520 Link 0 |
Fethard will be among the favourites this year I'd imagine. The bottom 6 or 7 in hurling and the bottom 2 or 3 in Football under the current 12 team set up at Senior are not likely to win Senior. So if you want it to be truly competitive you would be better with 8 team grades. A move back to 16 teams will give more competitive games to the teams who arent likely to win their grade out. So in fact you will have more competitive games not less.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11841 - 11/01/2022 16:50:09 2394554 Link 0 |
I agree re keeping them at 12. Whatever about the actual overall quality of the championship, one thing for sure is we have a seriously competitive championship. I think we are in a position where realistically there will be 4/5 clubs giving themselves a great chance of winning a Senior championship, while another 2/3 in Senior will know that if things go right and they find themselves going well later in the year that they can beat almost any team in the championship on a given day. That is the guts of 7/8 teams with a possibility of winning a county championship. There will always be 2/3 teams in every county who have no real hope of winning a championship but can hold their own and beat teams a level above them. For example, I believe at present a team like Rathnure are not at the level to win the Senior Championship in Wexford, but on their day they are more than capable of beating teams say like Glynn Barntown who I would say on their day could actually win a championship as they are well capable of beating a team like ST Martins or Rapps or Shells. I think this is what makes our 12 team grades really competitive. I think Intermediate is the same. If you put last years 4 semi-finalists of Oylegate, St James, Askamore and Bunclody in with some of the relegation teams of Oulart, Fethard, Crossabeg, Cloughbawn (taking out St Martins here as they would be simply too strong) I believe they would all take points off each other in a group. Yes St James, Askamore and Bunclody would be that little bit weaker I am still confident they would beat some of the senior teams. But if those three teams were to play the Rapps, Shells, Gorey, Glynn, St Martins I dont think they would get near them and as a result would create one-sided games and dilute the quality of the competition. Let the intermediate competition stay at 12 teams. If your good enough you will come up and earn the right to stay senior. Dumpstruck1 (Wexford) - Posts: 91 - 11/01/2022 17:50:00 2394558 Link 0 |
So they realised the proposals last night. The county issued there proposal and then a few others. Most proposals are for keeping the groups of 3. The county board want to keep 4 groups of 3 but with one change, if you finish 2nd you play the teams that finish second to qualify for for a quarter final while if you finish 3rd you play the teams that finish third. The loser of the 3rd place preliminary games go to relegation. I suppose it gives more incentive to finish 2nd that you dont have the threat of relegation. alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 403 - 19/01/2022 09:22:52 2395527 Link 0 |
Think the under 19 proposal is a good idea. Would still rather 4 groups of 4 for the Championship though.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11841 - 19/01/2022 10:35:26 2395548 Link 0 |
Interesting to see a few football die hards banging the drum for football to be played first this year on twitter last night. I personally think the hurling should be first as in fairness it is easier to play football than hurling in the later months of the year but their argument is justified and fair. I think the co board will be between a rock and a hard place as to what to decide on but maybe a countywide player survey should be carried out to assess what the players think. I loved the split season concept personally but I do think it is harder to implement if hurling is to wait until September or into October. Dumpstruck1 (Wexford) - Posts: 91 - 20/01/2022 18:46:13 2395795 Link 0 |
After last nights meeting clubs will get to vote on which goes first hurling and football, so looking like hurling first again. Proposals will go back to clubs to vote on but the county board will get the have the final say. alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 403 - 21/01/2022 09:01:59 2395818 Link 0 |
Does the County Board ultimately have the final say on which proposal gets through or will it purely be the proposal with most votes from clubs
lefty (Wexford) - Posts: 185 - 21/01/2022 09:47:09 2395824 Link 0 |
The 'it's easier to play hurling later in the year' theory is blown out of the water by the likes of Ballyhale and Ballygunner. beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1417 - 21/01/2022 10:48:10 2395834 Link 0 |
The only problem I see with playing football 1st is a good portion of teams won't give it the respect they have in the last 2 years, they'll keep training for hurling to some extent during the football campaign, every scenario has a flaw in my view no point looking for the perfect scenario to please everyone cause it's impossible to find.
bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 21/01/2022 11:27:26 2395842 Link 0 |
Both. County Board will decide, but it's the full County Board, where every club has a representative and therefore a vote. The decision wont be taken by just the management committee of the County Board, who may or may not pay heed to what the clubs think. As regards reference above to "a countywide player survey", that's exactly what clubs are being asked to do now. Consult with their own players, managers, and all others involved, and then rank the different options in order of preference. In fairness, the opportunity is there for everybody who wants to have a say to actually have a say, and to have that say through the proper channels. Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2245 - 21/01/2022 11:44:21 2395849 Link 0 |
Yet another email from the county board again today about the structure of 2 groups of 6. Yesterday it was kind of putting an email against it and then today sending out the harriers proposal and their own proposal on how the fixtures would fit in. Obviously they are worried about most clubs voting for this proposal, as far as I have read there other emails they get the deciding vote. Not sure many ppl care as not much discussion on this about the local club championships which is disappointing. alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 403 - 27/01/2022 14:24:19 2396726 Link 0 |
Theres been plenty of discussion on this and the club championship thread since the end of the championship. I still think 4 groups of 4 is the way to go. Most others think not.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11841 - 27/01/2022 14:45:18 2396730 Link 0 |