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Replying To Fit15: "Vinny, was probably not going to make wholesale changes when he got the job and give the existing panel a chance plus adding a few new faces in a hope to staying division 1, you have to remember Vinny was maybe 10th choice for the job,if even,he has no budget ( it's all being spent on a outdated cloghan) no high profile coaches, no weekends away in the K Club, it's all being done for the right reasons now and if that means you have to go backwards to go forwards so be it. It'll be next spring when we see a team that Vinny is building,reserve judgment until then maybe at least,for now back the management" I agree with most things you say.But at the very least a manager should have a Plan B in place when Plan A is not working.
This constant cycle of backwards and sideways handpassing for several minutes trying to get a scoring opportunity which nearly always results in turnovers is brutal to watch. Was it Einstein that said "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"?
What is wrong with a direct kick into the full forward in the square and let him try to win his battle with the fullback? Gaelic football is not rocket science. At one stage today in the second half the TG4 cameras showed Vinny and he looked lost for ideas on the sideline..Why was he not consulting with his backroom team? And don't get me started on the substitutions or lack of....
Stoutlad (Monaghan) - Posts: 7 - 05/03/2023 22:03:27
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Replying To Stoutlad: "I agree with most things you say.But at the very least a manager should have a Plan B in place when Plan A is not working.
This constant cycle of backwards and sideways handpassing for several minutes trying to get a scoring opportunity which nearly always results in turnovers is brutal to watch. Was it Einstein that said "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"?
What is wrong with a direct kick into the full forward in the square and let him try to win his battle with the fullback? Gaelic football is not rocket science. At one stage today in the second half the TG4 cameras showed Vinny and he looked lost for ideas on the sideline..Why was he not consulting with his backroom team? And don't get me started on the substitutions or lack of...." Good man, 1980 called for you… maybe the sweeper in place?
veterngaa (Monaghan) - Posts: 384 - 06/03/2023 07:41:03
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Replying To Bernardo: "Bottom line if we lose to Tyrone we go down even with a game left after that.
If we beat Tyrone then Tyrone go down.
Because whoever wins will be on 6 points and the other team will not be able to get more than 6pts in their last game.
Am I right in thinking that because Monaghan beat Tyrone or Tyrone beat Monaghan then the beaten team goes down because the other team bet them?" they could be a situation wheres theres more than two teams finish on 6 pts. Then score difference would decide it
armaghfan02 (Armagh) - Posts: 39 - 06/03/2023 10:49:50
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Replying To veterngaa: "Good man, 1980 called for you… maybe the sweeper in place?" A ridiculous comment to make in response. You must be new to this sport and get told what to think, do you recall Michael Murphy against Mayo in the All Ireland final by any chance?
The high ball in the square is definitely not plan A for any team, but it should be in the locker for every team like this man is saying. Monaghan were lost for ideas on Sunday and absolutely should have had a pop or two at the square in the last 10 minutes to try mix things up and create some panic in Galways blanket defense. If you by chance watched Tyrone V Kerry on sunday you might recall the big Tyrone midfielder heading into the square when Tyrone won a sideline - long ball with quality was put on his head and only for some excellent keeping he would have had a goal. You can bet Kerry were watching his every move after that which took attention away from someone else.
Best you can do for yourself is open your mind up and think independently of this public sector schoolteacher football that every team is playing now.. 'dont think for yourself, dont make a mistake, dont loose the ball, know your place, do as I say, dont take risks, yes sir no sir sorry sir'...... Bringing on Shane Carey against 14 men instead of the likes of Jones or Mulligan was a crazy 'playing it safe decision'.
As for Monaghan on Sunday, Gary Mohan was a massive miss. He made an error against Roscommon and was hooked immediately. The management somehow overlooked the fact that when he moved into midfield against Donegal he completely altered their kickout and gameplan, same as Roscommon.
Mickod88 (Monaghan) - Posts: 49 - 06/03/2023 13:22:40
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Replying To Mickod88: "A ridiculous comment to make in response. You must be new to this sport and get told what to think, do you recall Michael Murphy against Mayo in the All Ireland final by any chance?
The high ball in the square is definitely not plan A for any team, but it should be in the locker for every team like this man is saying. Monaghan were lost for ideas on Sunday and absolutely should have had a pop or two at the square in the last 10 minutes to try mix things up and create some panic in Galways blanket defense. If you by chance watched Tyrone V Kerry on sunday you might recall the big Tyrone midfielder heading into the square when Tyrone won a sideline - long ball with quality was put on his head and only for some excellent keeping he would have had a goal. You can bet Kerry were watching his every move after that which took attention away from someone else.
Best you can do for yourself is open your mind up and think independently of this public sector schoolteacher football that every team is playing now.. 'dont think for yourself, dont make a mistake, dont loose the ball, know your place, do as I say, dont take risks, yes sir no sir sorry sir'...... Bringing on Shane Carey against 14 men instead of the likes of Jones or Mulligan was a crazy 'playing it safe decision'.
As for Monaghan on Sunday, Gary Mohan was a massive miss. He made an error against Roscommon and was hooked immediately. The management somehow overlooked the fact that when he moved into midfield against Donegal he completely altered their kickout and gameplan, same as Roscommon." Jones played near 50 mins yesterday from the start. Get the facts right before ridiculing managements decisions.
countymonaghan (Monaghan) - Posts: 273 - 06/03/2023 13:57:09
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I think yesterday we left one behind us. At half time we would have thought that monaghan could cut galway open and create overlaps out wide with the extra man just like in 2018 when we destroyed teams keeping it wide but we couldn't.
Jack Mc Carron was a massive miss and mohan must have picked up a knock when he wasn't even on the panel. I thought it was the right time to give mulligan a chance and maybe try mc manus from the start given mc carron was out. When are we going to try mulligan ?? time is running out and seems hes just going to be a panel player with a number, 10 mins to go in omagh is certainly not the time!!
It was unrealistic we were going to win 3 on the bounce and i think players, management had this in their heads, they are primed for the big one in 2 weeks time.
Why are we giving Fintan Kelly a go ? Like it was obvious he was just on for 30 mins to run and tackle, can some younger lad around the county not do the same job?? At least shane carey contributes to the scoreboard or even tries to.
Again we seen Darren Hughes in the sweeper role being exposed for his speed and legs, when we had to press he wasn't fit for it, just like with derry last year and mayo, Ok against a few teams at home in February but we all know what is going to happen when rogers, mc kinless etc runs at speed come championship.
Our half forward line is dangerous and all 3 fit to score, and its great that management are letting them play as they are the 3 men that can be match winners on their day.
I am in no way slating the team, their dedication is brilliant, just highlighting a few areas that keep on coming up all the time against the bigger teams.
monaghanmad (Monaghan) - Posts: 378 - 06/03/2023 13:58:31
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Replying To countymonaghan: "Jones played near 50 mins yesterday from the start. Get the facts right before ridiculing managements decisions." Fair point, don't know how I missed that - not thinking for myself i guess ;)
Mickod88 (Monaghan) - Posts: 49 - 06/03/2023 14:33:22
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Replying To Stoutlad: "I agree with most things you say.But at the very least a manager should have a Plan B in place when Plan A is not working.
This constant cycle of backwards and sideways handpassing for several minutes trying to get a scoring opportunity which nearly always results in turnovers is brutal to watch. Was it Einstein that said "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"?
What is wrong with a direct kick into the full forward in the square and let him try to win his battle with the fullback? Gaelic football is not rocket science. At one stage today in the second half the TG4 cameras showed Vinny and he looked lost for ideas on the sideline..Why was he not consulting with his backroom team? And don't get me started on the substitutions or lack of...." Back to the Stone Age with this analysis stoutlad. "Just kick it in"… They were playing against a great defensive system with sweepers cutting out any ball into the inside forwards. These people at games that shout along the lines of "just let it in" are the exact same people giving out when it's inevitably turned over as the kick pass wasn't on. Deary me.
HB245 (Monaghan) - Posts: 206 - 06/03/2023 14:35:35
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Galway's running from deep killed us yesterday, and whats disapointing is that when we went back up the field with the ball it was, get to their 45 and pass it from sideline to sideline, the odd fist pass in only for it to be kicked back out to the 45m line. Let's be honest it is boring to watch when we play like this and have no pace to our game.
Banningan and O'Hanlon didn't have their best games but they made a go at breaking the lines and trying to score. I think Jack and Mohan were missed for being target men or someone in there to release the ball into.
There'll be days where the shooting is off but the amount of wides yesterday was inexcusable and the issue of balls dropping short continues as it has done all season.
The game v Tyrone is going to be borderline championship intensity now, a lot is at stake and I feel like we always play better in Clones. Hopefully the atmosphere is top notch and we get out in numbers to support.
MonaghanGlory (Monaghan) - Posts: 738 - 06/03/2023 15:15:22
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Replying To HB245: "Back to the Stone Age with this analysis stoutlad. "Just kick it in"… They were playing against a great defensive system with sweepers cutting out any ball into the inside forwards. These people at games that shout along the lines of "just let it in" are the exact same people giving out when it's inevitably turned over as the kick pass wasn't on. Deary me." You just agreed with me and contradicted yourself in the one paragraph Genius :)
" They were playing against a great defensive system with sweepers cutting out any ball into the inside forwards" So if it was impossible to get through this brilliant defensive system why not try a direct ball over it into the square? Most of the top teams do it at some stage of a game. And the Galway goalkeeper is very suspect under a high ball as was proven last year.
Maybe HB245 you should do a bit of analysis yourself on the game and not just quote what the "experts" on the Sunday Game say!
Stoutlad (Monaghan) - Posts: 7 - 06/03/2023 15:54:24
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Replying To Stoutlad: "You just agreed with me and contradicted yourself in the one paragraph Genius :)
" They were playing against a great defensive system with sweepers cutting out any ball into the inside forwards" So if it was impossible to get through this brilliant defensive system why not try a direct ball over it into the square? Most of the top teams do it at some stage of a game. And the Galway goalkeeper is very suspect under a high ball as was proven last year.
Maybe HB245 you should do a bit of analysis yourself on the game and not just quote what the "experts" on the Sunday Game say!" Ah, so you're tactical approach to change yesterdays game, or the Plan B, as you said in your original post, was to just lump ball into the full forward line (each of whom were physically outmatched) and hope for the best.
I'd really hope our management team has a better thought out Plan B than that. That's Plan D or Plan E when we're down heavily with a few minutes to go.
Somebody above used the example of Tyrone doing it at the weekend. Tyrone do it with their 6"6 midfielder Kennedy, hardly a viable comparison to us when you consider the height of our midfield, and that our tallest player is Gallagher who is struggling to win his own ball at county senior level. The only other teams I can think of that utilise this big long ball into the FF line on a regular basis throughout a game, are Kerry and Armagh, who have Clifford and O'Neill.. two of the best ball winners in the country.
HB245 (Monaghan) - Posts: 206 - 06/03/2023 17:21:46
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Replying To HB245: "Ah, so you're tactical approach to change yesterdays game, or the Plan B, as you said in your original post, was to just lump ball into the full forward line (each of whom were physically outmatched) and hope for the best.
I'd really hope our management team has a better thought out Plan B than that. That's Plan D or Plan E when we're down heavily with a few minutes to go.
Somebody above used the example of Tyrone doing it at the weekend. Tyrone do it with their 6"6 midfielder Kennedy, hardly a viable comparison to us when you consider the height of our midfield, and that our tallest player is Gallagher who is struggling to win his own ball at county senior level. The only other teams I can think of that utilise this big long ball into the FF line on a regular basis throughout a game, are Kerry and Armagh, who have Clifford and O'Neill.. two of the best ball winners in the country." You should really read a post fully before you comment on it...I never said a high ball into the square was Plan B...I said Monaghan didn't have a Plan B. In the absence of a Plan B at least try something..
Now you tell what was Monaghan's Plan B was yesterday. You cant because there wasn't one..
Going by your logic then if we cant get through this "brilliant Galway defensive unit" then because we don't have big physical forwards we just give up and accept defeat?....
Stoutlad (Monaghan) - Posts: 7 - 06/03/2023 18:08:25
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Replying To armaghfan02: "they could be a situation wheres theres more than two teams finish on 6 pts. Then score difference would decide it" Armagh plus 1 other to go down.
Neartheborder (Derry) - Posts: 56 - 06/03/2023 20:34:37
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Replying To Mickod88: "A ridiculous comment to make in response. You must be new to this sport and get told what to think, do you recall Michael Murphy against Mayo in the All Ireland final by any chance?
The high ball in the square is definitely not plan A for any team, but it should be in the locker for every team like this man is saying. Monaghan were lost for ideas on Sunday and absolutely should have had a pop or two at the square in the last 10 minutes to try mix things up and create some panic in Galways blanket defense. If you by chance watched Tyrone V Kerry on sunday you might recall the big Tyrone midfielder heading into the square when Tyrone won a sideline - long ball with quality was put on his head and only for some excellent keeping he would have had a goal. You can bet Kerry were watching his every move after that which took attention away from someone else.
Best you can do for yourself is open your mind up and think independently of this public sector schoolteacher football that every team is playing now.. 'dont think for yourself, dont make a mistake, dont loose the ball, know your place, do as I say, dont take risks, yes sir no sir sorry sir'...... Bringing on Shane Carey against 14 men instead of the likes of Jones or Mulligan was a crazy 'playing it safe decision'.
As for Monaghan on Sunday, Gary Mohan was a massive miss. He made an error against Roscommon and was hooked immediately. The management somehow overlooked the fact that when he moved into midfield against Donegal he completely altered their kickout and gameplan, same as Roscommon." You mention Gary Mohan in your post. I was amazed at a lot of the Monaghan 'supporters' around me at the Ros game who abused him from a height from the get go. I have to say I knew very little of him but he was shouted at constantly by a large cohort around me. I remember thinking to myself I wouldn't like for any of his family to hear what was being said. It was definitely not called for. Sure he made some mistakes in that game but he did a lot of good stuff also. Seems to be a big and mobile unit. Anyway best of luck in the remaining league games. I hope we both stay up
ComainRos (Roscommon) - Posts: 103 - 06/03/2023 21:41:10
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Replying To ComainRos: "You mention Gary Mohan in your post. I was amazed at a lot of the Monaghan 'supporters' around me at the Ros game who abused him from a height from the get go. I have to say I knew very little of him but he was shouted at constantly by a large cohort around me. I remember thinking to myself I wouldn't like for any of his family to hear what was being said. It was definitely not called for. Sure he made some mistakes in that game but he did a lot of good stuff also. Seems to be a big and mobile unit. Anyway best of luck in the remaining league games. I hope we both stay up" 100% agree with this. This happens every game with every team I think. Always one player getting abuse from his/her own team supporters. Very sad to hear especially when that said player is out 5/6 nights a week training, in gym or recovering to the best of their ability to try get playing the following week.
It is unreal the time these guys give up and the special occasions which they must sacrifice missing due to games and training, they do not deserve someone sitting in the crowd yelling abuse at them while drinking their tea and coffee and stuffing a chocolate bar into them. Really is no place for this in the amateur game.
Galway really attacked Monaghan in the second half with their 14 men. Monaghan found it hard to break them down. But here's hoping we find another result somewhere. League is still wide open. Very close league and will go down to the last game probably.
countymonaghan (Monaghan) - Posts: 273 - 07/03/2023 09:04:47
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Replying To countymonaghan: "100% agree with this. This happens every game with every team I think. Always one player getting abuse from his/her own team supporters. Very sad to hear especially when that said player is out 5/6 nights a week training, in gym or recovering to the best of their ability to try get playing the following week.
It is unreal the time these guys give up and the special occasions which they must sacrifice missing due to games and training, they do not deserve someone sitting in the crowd yelling abuse at them while drinking their tea and coffee and stuffing a chocolate bar into them. Really is no place for this in the amateur game.
Galway really attacked Monaghan in the second half with their 14 men. Monaghan found it hard to break them down. But here's hoping we find another result somewhere. League is still wide open. Very close league and will go down to the last game probably." I'm particularly disappointed on behalf of the lad in question. He's a big lump of a lad, can really move, take a score, etc.. he's the physical tools to make any team in the country and with the right guidance he can develop into a well rounded baller to. Probably his club doing him no favours in terms of popularity in the stands - Truagh haven't been prolific in producing county players in the past and it's being held against him, but he really brings something different to the mix from anyone else in the panel - outside of maybe the Hughes brothers.
On another note with the disappointment of this weekend in mind: in only 2 of 19 games in the div 1 league this year has the away team won..
Jjoniel79 (Monaghan) - Posts: 143 - 07/03/2023 11:10:35
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Replying To Jjoniel79: "I'm particularly disappointed on behalf of the lad in question. He's a big lump of a lad, can really move, take a score, etc.. he's the physical tools to make any team in the country and with the right guidance he can develop into a well rounded baller to. Probably his club doing him no favours in terms of popularity in the stands - Truagh haven't been prolific in producing county players in the past and it's being held against him, but he really brings something different to the mix from anyone else in the panel - outside of maybe the Hughes brothers.
On another note with the disappointment of this weekend in mind: in only 2 of 19 games in the div 1 league this year has the away team won.." Totally agree , this lad has the potential to be a very good county player , giving lads a chance is what will make us better,
stoneygrey (Monaghan) - Posts: 213 - 08/03/2023 15:07:13
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Replying To Stoutlad: "You should really read a post fully before you comment on it...I never said a high ball into the square was Plan B...I said Monaghan didn't have a Plan B. In the absence of a Plan B at least try something..
Now you tell what was Monaghan's Plan B was yesterday. You cant because there wasn't one..
Going by your logic then if we cant get through this "brilliant Galway defensive unit" then because we don't have big physical forwards we just give up and accept defeat?...." We didn"t need a Plan B....with extra man just push up on their kick outs. Giving possession to a quality side like Galway is fatal ...we didn"t have the courage to do that & we paid the price. Anyway without our target men, McCarron & Mohan it almost definitely wouldn't have worked.
Shelbourne1 (Monaghan) - Posts: 346 - 09/03/2023 21:22:27
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Replying To Shelbourne1: "We didn"t need a Plan B....with extra man just push up on their kick outs. Giving possession to a quality side like Galway is fatal ...we didn"t have the courage to do that & we paid the price. Anyway without our target men, McCarron & Mohan it almost definitely wouldn't have worked." From what I remember of the game Galway had a plan to confuse Monaghan's attempts to push up with players bunching and then sprinting to the side. Monaghan weren't able to track them.
Definitely agree Monaghan need Mohan (and obviously McCarron) in the team if they are going to make a go of it this summer. I think the management may be a bit caught again in that they still have a chance to stay in div 1, so do they stick with the current players or do they try and introduce a few other before the end of the league. The forwards are fine but I'd prefer some new options at midfield if they exist, because they are pretty much beaten there in most games already.
Mostly I think though that we saw the difference between a team at the very top level (Galway) and a team that is re-building. We saw the same gulf against Kerry and likely we'll see it in at least one of the remaining games.
A competative midfield fixes a lot of problems for a team. Is Leonard still injured? He's not been on the panel for any of the games as far as I know.
PolicemanFox (Monaghan) - Posts: 158 - 10/03/2023 12:17:01
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Are the U20 football team out this weekend? They seem to be going well in the league (2 wins & 1 loss?).
I know they have championship soon against Armagh.
MrPBoylan (Monaghan) - Posts: 109 - 10/03/2023 15:11:02
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