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Replying To Gator: "'Players always let you down on the big day, that's been the story of the past 10 years when you need them to deliver, they wilt.'
I don't agree with that at all. In the last 10 years they have gone from Div 3 to Div 1 and stayed there very much against the odds. They have won 2 ulster titles and contested 2 more finals. They were the best side the reigning all ireland champions faced last year.
Yesterday they were off it entirely on the line. Management made bad, bad calls. Too late to fix when you have shipped two goals against a team like that. Banty did not learn from what happened in the Derry - Tyrone game. Nor did he learn from the Down game where Monaghan shipped two goals to a poor (on the day) Down team.
Is your expectation that Monaghan win sam? I am realistic...and where I would love that its fanciful stuff. Monaghan can put in bad performances sometimes the players are off and sometimes the tactics are wrong. Saying a team wilt on big days is a nonsense when you look at the success they have enjoyed over the last 10 years. The only Ulster teams that have had better outcomes in the last 10 years are Donegal and Tyrone. In a very competitive province thats not bad. When I was a kid watching Monaghan lose game after game in the 90s was no fun." We've won nothing in 7 years.
MalsBalls (Monaghan) - Posts: 179 - 16/05/2022 12:23:56
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Poor stuff yesterday. Very surprised at the starting 15. We need players like Woods and Jones in the forward line for balance and for more direct play. Leave them out and we're pretty hapless. 5 goals conceded in 2 games too. You're never going to get near an Ulster Final playing like that. There is a lot to fix if we're to have any kind of run through the back door. Well done Derry, they got it tactically spot on.
SoNearYetSoFarney (Monaghan) - Posts: 50 - 16/05/2022 12:38:28
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First up, well done Derry on a great performance and 100% deserved win, It was a pleasure to watch a well-coached team implement a simple, effective game plan to a tee. Monaghan made a fight of it for 25 minutes in the second half but the inevitable 3rd goal finished it off.
As for Monaghan, cannot say I was surprised. The hugely frustrating part was not the loss itself, but that fact of losing in a way that was so predictable and laden with mistakes on the line. We all saw it coming except those making the calls.
It was clear from the Down game that the inside forward line of McManus, Mohan and McCarron would be too slow for a packed defence and would offer no goal threat. Also that Derry's half backs posed a real threat for of overlapping runs from deep. Nothing was changed to counter these risks. What response from Monaghan management?
Did anyone doubt for a second that Shane Carey would get a starting place? Nothing against the lad but it hardly was the type of innovation that would have worried Gallagher.
Derry were allowed to sit into their shape from the outset, and were offered no threat or challenge to that comfort. Monaghan just drifted into a slow panic as if they weren't expecting what they got from Derry. Getting away with the same trick twice in a row- I'd say Gallagher couldn't believe his luck. You have to wonder how a senior inter-county management team would allow that to happen. Time for a change.
Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1057 - 16/05/2022 13:06:36
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Replying To Ulsterchamps_32: "Over the last few months I've found myself a little bemused by the anti Banty sentiment on this forum. He's kept them in division one and they're always competitive and they've been very close in Ulster.
Though I did find the tactics very strange yesterday and I'd be a bit annoyed if I was from Monaghan. I just don't want they were up to in the first half. They needed to at least partially replicate Derry and keep the score close in the first half. I mentioned in the match forum that the athletic grounds have a very pronounced scoring goal and Derry were playing into it in the first half. Donegal scored plenty into it against Cavan in 2020 but couldn't score into the other goal in the second half. We had a similar enough challenge in a league game last year. If they did that they could have then been able to manage the second half on their own terms. That still might not have worked out as Derry are very good but the tactics really reduced your chances.
In the second half Monaghan were the better team and points were much easier come by. O'Connell made a huge difference and kierns was also excellent. Though because you were so far back and had to push up Derry were likely to get enough in the break win and they did." It's called underachieving, whan a team does not realise its potential because of management inadequacies, you should know what I mean by that. Ask Martin Mc Hugh he'll fill you in
mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 1044 - 16/05/2022 13:22:15
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Championship is for big game players, big moments when players deliver. Apart from 2016 and 2019,monaghan players have not seized the moments that define a championship campaign. Managment or not. It has been there for them but they haven't delivered. I'm sorry but nobody remembers league football.
222 (UK) - Posts: 691 - 16/05/2022 13:38:42
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2 ways of looking at it underachieved or maybe overachieved derry had good teams since 1998 and no ulster title at senior level armagh the same no ulster since 2008 down no ulster since 1994 so all this talk of monaghan underachieving could be turned on its head that we overachieved not saying its either but u can make your own mind up bear in mind that this monaghan team needs fresh blood and that needs to start now not next year
prideof85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 851 - 16/05/2022 14:05:02
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Ulster final off last year all over again u won't won much playing one half of football.iam not one of these lads for the banty out stuff but holy god did he not watch derry against tyrone **** I knew wat was coming and i am no tactical genius time for change
Lad79 (Monaghan) - Posts: 52 - 16/05/2022 14:17:57
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A lot of people calling on the Co. board to act and get Banty out, I can say with absolute confidence this will NEVER happen!
The Banty dilemma is all about money, everyone (players included) are very aware he's not up to the role. Club teams in the county currently have better managers than our senior county team for godsake!
If we want a change, it'll have to happen at club level,
Blueblood4life (Monaghan) - Posts: 200 - 16/05/2022 15:02:08
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Replying To Blueblood4life: "A lot of people calling on the Co. board to act and get Banty out, I can say with absolute confidence this will NEVER happen!
The Banty dilemma is all about money, everyone (players included) are very aware he's not up to the role. Club teams in the county currently have better managers than our senior county team for godsake!
If we want a change, it'll have to happen at club level," I'd say a lot of people couldn't even be bothered writing that the management has to go, yesterday was exactly what happens roughly every other game for Monaghan .watching the management on the line yesterday with their mouths open wondering how was this happening.. do your head watching this farce . Nothing wrong with the team and quite obvious there was no tactics whatsoever for yesterday.Criteria for a good manager is needed.
stoneygrey (Monaghan) - Posts: 213 - 16/05/2022 17:38:18
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All things considered we still could have won the game yesterday. Derry look ravenous this year but we showed second half we still have the desire. We tend to lose these games mentally. That said I think the tactics could be better. McCarthy is our best goal threat but playing in defence. We've also lost too many fellas like o Hanlon and mulligan that we really need back
Dcgael (Monaghan) - Posts: 10 - 16/05/2022 18:09:11
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Banty has led monaghan to ZERO ulsters titles in 9 attempts.. facts speak for themselves..time for a change even if it is 3 years to late..my fear is we could slip into an abyss with the current management..
mick2007 (Monaghan) - Posts: 449 - 16/05/2022 19:10:54
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Replying To mick2007: "Banty has led monaghan to ZERO ulsters titles in 9 attempts.. facts speak for themselves..time for a change even if it is 3 years to late..my fear is we could slip into an abyss with the current management.." Correct.. some strange positions held yesterday.. even the sub goalie ..
stoneygrey (Monaghan) - Posts: 213 - 16/05/2022 21:54:06
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It's the predictability of the thing. I know nothing about football management, but having watched the Tyrone game, I knew exactly what Derry were going to do. Did none of the Monaghan management team watch it? Maybe there was hurling on TV that day and they missed it.
How were we going to pick holes in a 15-man defence with slow lateral passing? Sure, you might get the odd score here and there that way, but if that's the plan, then you have to make it into a low-scoring dogfight. Instead we left ourselves wide open, and Derry walked through us, just like Down had done.
Where was plan B? K Hughes full forward? Woods in from the start? The occasional long kickout bypassing midfield entirely? McCarthy starting in the forwards? What did we think was going to happen if we didn't trying something different, and instead played into their hands?
Gallagher didn't have to worry too much about changing tack, because he knew we wouldn't - Derry were right in their comfort zone. Gallagher will have told them what way Monaghan were going to setup, and that they would run at us and get goals, and win. We did as expected, they got the goals, the players 100% bought into it, 100% belief, effort, and clinical execution. Fair play to them, they were the better team on the day, but we made it too easy for them.
There was a comment somewhere that the players usually got the management out of jail, but they just couldn't manage it on Sunday. That was bang on. McCarron saved the management by single-handedly beating Dublin. A one-man miracle prevented a relegation that wouldn't have been undeserved. Had one of our late deflected efforts managed to find it's way into the Derry net, there could have been a miracle Sunday too. Fist pumps and 'fierce effort, fierce proud, gave the lads a good talking to at half time' would have ensued. The players might have done it, but it wouldn't have had anything to do with the way we were setup.
I feel sorry for the likes of Mansy, the Hughes, Karl, etc - they are spent at this stage, and this setup is doomed to failure. 2 Ulster titles is poor reward for the effort they have put in over the last 10 years. It must be sickening for them that their efforts are bogged down by our lack of imagination on the sideline.
Unfortunately there is zero chance the county board will remove Banty. Zero.
moodoo (Monaghan) - Posts: 441 - 17/05/2022 09:31:13
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Replying To stoneygrey: "I'd say a lot of people couldn't even be bothered writing that the management has to go, yesterday was exactly what happens roughly every other game for Monaghan .watching the management on the line yesterday with their mouths open wondering how was this happening.. do your head watching this farce . Nothing wrong with the team and quite obvious there was no tactics whatsoever for yesterday.Criteria for a good manager is needed." Maybe the management isnt to blame the team has to take 70 per cent of the blame not a tackle or shoulder for the first 1 03 from derry not a hand put on them the same happened 6 years ago against longford in clones 5 years ago against down in armagh 4 years ago against fermanagh in omagh all under malachy o rourke but playing 3 half forwards as half backs is nonsense
prideof85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 851 - 17/05/2022 09:43:40
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I just want to be an observation, for the Down and Derry game it was the first time I looked at a Monaghan bench in years and thought, jesus we are struggling.
Bar Karl O'Connell, Woods and Possibly Wylie we had nobody to really impact the game.
The absence of Lavelle,Kelly,Mulligan and O'Hanlon have really depleted our options.
Jones,Leonard and Gallagher will be main stay of the team for years to come but not fully ready as of yet.
I also noted that the Monaghan manager has decided to yet again bring a nephew along for the spin.
shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1928 - 17/05/2022 09:43:47
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Replying To moodoo: "It's the predictability of the thing. I know nothing about football management, but having watched the Tyrone game, I knew exactly what Derry were going to do. Did none of the Monaghan management team watch it? Maybe there was hurling on TV that day and they missed it.
How were we going to pick holes in a 15-man defence with slow lateral passing? Sure, you might get the odd score here and there that way, but if that's the plan, then you have to make it into a low-scoring dogfight. Instead we left ourselves wide open, and Derry walked through us, just like Down had done.
Where was plan B? K Hughes full forward? Woods in from the start? The occasional long kickout bypassing midfield entirely? McCarthy starting in the forwards? What did we think was going to happen if we didn't trying something different, and instead played into their hands?
Gallagher didn't have to worry too much about changing tack, because he knew we wouldn't - Derry were right in their comfort zone. Gallagher will have told them what way Monaghan were going to setup, and that they would run at us and get goals, and win. We did as expected, they got the goals, the players 100% bought into it, 100% belief, effort, and clinical execution. Fair play to them, they were the better team on the day, but we made it too easy for them.
There was a comment somewhere that the players usually got the management out of jail, but they just couldn't manage it on Sunday. That was bang on. McCarron saved the management by single-handedly beating Dublin. A one-man miracle prevented a relegation that wouldn't have been undeserved. Had one of our late deflected efforts managed to find it's way into the Derry net, there could have been a miracle Sunday too. Fist pumps and 'fierce effort, fierce proud, gave the lads a good talking to at half time' would have ensued. The players might have done it, but it wouldn't have had anything to do with the way we were setup.
I feel sorry for the likes of Mansy, the Hughes, Karl, etc - they are spent at this stage, and this setup is doomed to failure. 2 Ulster titles is poor reward for the effort they have put in over the last 10 years. It must be sickening for them that their efforts are bogged down by our lack of imagination on the sideline.
Unfortunately there is zero chance the county board will remove Banty. Zero." Agree with every word, in all 3 Ulster games we were beaten in the last 3 years it was a tactical meltdown that cost us each time, not the players. Shocking, I would rather have won a dogfight playing 15 men behind the ball v derry and be in an ulster final than trying to please the crowd with open football that we simply dont have the players to do for 70 mins,
monaghanmad (Monaghan) - Posts: 378 - 17/05/2022 10:12:11
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Replying To monaghanmad: "Agree with every word, in all 3 Ulster games we were beaten in the last 3 years it was a tactical meltdown that cost us each time, not the players. Shocking, I would rather have won a dogfight playing 15 men behind the ball v derry and be in an ulster final than trying to please the crowd with open football that we simply dont have the players to do for 70 mins," If only we had a performance coach in the backroom team to rectify this??!!!
The appointment of Sheedy was farcical, he was brought in under the vail of "sport psychologist" and he hasn't a qualification to his name in this field!
I shudder to think of the bill we as fans are footing for this "experts" in the county set up. One previous post questioned why the price of senior/junior club games has risen, it's not a hard question to answer!
Quiet simply we as a county are being shafted due to a massive expense on our underperforming senior set up.
We had a failing u20 & minor team the past 2 years, we'd be better off investing some more into our future senior representatives than leaking hundreds of thousands the past 3years.
Blueblood4life (Monaghan) - Posts: 200 - 17/05/2022 12:27:02
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Replying To stoneygrey: "Correct.. some strange positions held yesterday.. even the sub goalie .." What way was the sub goalie strange exactly?
monaghanman99 (Monaghan) - Posts: 49 - 17/05/2022 14:14:46
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Problem is we're not actually leaking hundreds of thousands, the whole thing is pretty much being covered. Hence zero chance of the management being ousted. Who cares if the team is underperforming, the coffers are full.
moodoo (Monaghan) - Posts: 441 - 17/05/2022 14:58:37
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Replying To monaghanman99: "What way was the sub goalie strange exactly?" Part of the family tree if you don't already know
stoneygrey (Monaghan) - Posts: 213 - 17/05/2022 17:23:18
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