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How is section A a great system when you can come in the top half by losing more games than you win? It's anti what championship football should be.
Blackjack (Westmeath) - Posts: 36 - 30/09/2025 15:29:32
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Replying To Blackjack: "How is section A a great system when you can come in the top half by losing more games than you win? It's anti what championship football should be." It's a great system because the players love it. And that is literally all that matters.
jamsie (Westmeath) - Posts: 492 - 30/09/2025 16:03:19
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You're just guessing players love it. No proof or evidence. I think players love knockout element.
Some like it because you can keep losing and get through.
It's harder to be knocked out of section A than get through.
Blackjack (Westmeath) - Posts: 36 - 30/09/2025 16:22:15
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Replying To Blackjack: "You're just guessing players love it. No proof or evidence. I think players love knockout element.
Some like it because you can keep losing and get through.
It's harder to be knocked out of section A than get through." The current format is better than what you're advocating for. 4 groups of 3? A team may not win a game and still finish in 2nd. How would that be a great system? A massive gulf in class exists between The Downs and St Loman's and most of the 12 teams.
iarmhiabu (Westmeath) - Posts: 224 - 30/09/2025 16:58:45
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Players love games, the current championship format guarantees all teams 5 championship games which is what players want! A group of 3 with 2 matches is nonsense, knockout championship is even worse as you may only get 1 game.
Our format this year gave every team besides the downs and garrycastle something to play for in round 5 whether that was a semi, quarter, relegation from group A or relegation from senior to intermediate.
Athlone, tyrellspass, moate and killucan played 5 championship matches this year. Caulry, garrycastle, tang and malachys all played 6 championship matches this year. Lomans and the downs are facing their 6th in the semi finals while kinnegad and mullingar are facing their 7th. Players want matches and our championship format provides that.
If it's not broken, don't fix it!
Tailteannchamps (Westmeath) - Posts: 48 - 30/09/2025 17:32:10
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Replying To Blackjack: "You're just guessing players love it. No proof or evidence. I think players love knockout element.
Some like it because you can keep losing and get through.
It's harder to be knocked out of section A than get through." Players absolutely do love our system; the only people who don't are probably the hurling supporters who want to reduce the number of football games to suit their own hurling players which should not be accepted by any delegates.
OverTheHill85 (Westmeath) - Posts: 138 - 30/09/2025 17:39:23
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Fair play to Tang for getting over the line. They never gave up and pushed hard in the end to bring it to penalties.
A little harsh on St. Malachys getting relegated on Penalties after beating them earlier and drawing after extra time in the play off, but you really need to hold on to a 5 point lead against 13 men. They had a decent year, only lost by a point to Caulry and by two to Moate but the unlikely Tang win against Garrycastle gave Tang the momentum to survive.
Not a huge fan of relegation after pens, if a team can't be relegated on a head to head it certainly deserves a replay to decide a whole years effort by both squads. Would have been harsh on whoever lost but thats the rule I guess. Tang will be stronger next year but Malachys were missing a good few also so should be expecting in to challenge next year at intermediate level depending on whos available to play!
Highball_Lowball (Westmeath) - Posts: 15 - 30/09/2025 18:48:45
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Replying To Blackjack: "You're just guessing players love it. No proof or evidence. I think players love knockout element.
Some like it because you can keep losing and get through.
It's harder to be knocked out of section A than get through." Obviously, it's called Section A for a reason. Do you really think Garrycastle got there by accident? They were relegated from Senior 1, bounced back immediately, and then earned promotion from Senior B. Fair enough, they lost to Shamrocks, but being promoted to Section A is a well-deserved reward for their hard work and resilience.
Fighting-Cocks69 (Westmeath) - Posts: 88 - 30/09/2025 18:51:09
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Replying To Blackjack: "You're just guessing players love it. No proof or evidence. I think players love knockout element.
Some like it because you can keep losing and get through.
It's harder to be knocked out of section A than get through." It literally ensures the best teams play each other. Only way you can get teams better is by meaningful matches against teams of a similar level. It gives the group B teams a great chance, as the gap between groups is big enough. The days of straight knockout are long gone. The last three years the eventual Flanagan Cup winners didn't lose a match anyways. You'd imagine it'll be the same this season as the downs are red hot favs
Bluelake (Westmeath) - Posts: 318 - 30/09/2025 19:10:39
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Replying To keepherclean: "Call me conspiracy theorist yellowboy but for some bizarre reason I think that may have beeen someone from a club other than Caulry posting that !!!!" Dont think so. Doubt many other than caulrians believe they will win one in our lifetime . wouldnt have given luke or many in north westmeath any sleepless nights.
yellowboy (Westmeath) - Posts: 87 - 30/09/2025 19:49:41
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Replying To Bluelake: "It literally ensures the best teams play each other. Only way you can get teams better is by meaningful matches against teams of a similar level. It gives the group B teams a great chance, as the gap between groups is big enough. The days of straight knockout are long gone. The last three years the eventual Flanagan Cup winners didn't lose a match anyways. You'd imagine it'll be the same this season as the downs are red hot favs" It's a great format in fairness and should be retained in my opinion. Adds great jeopardy and gives teams matches against similar ability teams with an opportunity to progress to a final should they be capable. Should be retained with minimal tweaking imho.
Highball_Lowball (Westmeath) - Posts: 15 - 30/09/2025 19:55:27
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The group of 6 works well to a point, however there are a couple of flaws as outlined, but it's always going to be hard to come up with a perfect solution that would please everyone. Here's my insight.
As it stands a team in group 1 could actually lose 4 matches whilst only winning 1 and qualify for a quarter final, while a team in group 2 could win 4 matches while losing only 1 in the same year and still not qualify, and there's the imbalance that needs to be corrected. The championships are already graded, as in senior, intermediate, junior. There should be no need to grade further within the championships and this is the flaw in the current format. If a team is senior then they are senior, and each team should be afforded an equal shot which doesn't happen as it's currently graded. There should be an open draw of 2 groups, and with something similar to the hurling which works really well, 3 teams qualify, group winners to the final and second and third place to a quarter final with bottom in each group playing off for relegation. As it stands there's little jeopardy in group A which means teams can coast through timing their run and rest players and afford longer recuperation for injuries etc than those in group B, and this is inherently unfair. Aside from Lomans and the Downs who have been the standard bearers in recent years, there is actually not an awful lot between most of the rest of the teams in the championship, so an open draw would be fairer on everyone, and so what if a so called group of death transpires, it would make it a hell of a lot more exciting when teams know that a slip up is more dangerous than before. It would almost certainly make it that a team with 3 or 4 losses couldn't qualify, games become more meaningful and everyone in their grade is at an equal footing, games would adapt a different intensity.
Look at group B in senior, Caulry, Moate and Killucan all with 3 wins but only 1 qualified, while Shamrocks and Kinnegad both get through with 2 wins from group A… Both quarter finals competitive, and look at the results in group B, there's nothing between any of the teams bar 1 or 2 outlying results which can happen anywhere.
Look at the intermediate this year, Multy qualified for a quarter final with 2 wins while CFCW failed to qualify with 3 wins, including a win over Milltownpass who went on to beat Multy in a quarter final, so very harsh on CFCW. This shows the disparity and how the system as it stands was unfair to group B teams, there is nothing much between these teams, so let them all into an open draw and fight it out on an equal footing.
Same with junior, there should be an open draw with first and second strings all in the pot together, 3 qualifying and improve the standard of junior overall.
That's my tuppence worth for what it counts anyway.
CleanShoulder (Westmeath) - Posts: 378 - 30/09/2025 20:37:34
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Replying To Highball_Lowball: "Fair play to Tang for getting over the line. They never gave up and pushed hard in the end to bring it to penalties.
A little harsh on St. Malachys getting relegated on Penalties after beating them earlier and drawing after extra time in the play off, but you really need to hold on to a 5 point lead against 13 men. They had a decent year, only lost by a point to Caulry and by two to Moate but the unlikely Tang win against Garrycastle gave Tang the momentum to survive.
Not a huge fan of relegation after pens, if a team can't be relegated on a head to head it certainly deserves a replay to decide a whole years effort by both squads. Would have been harsh on whoever lost but thats the rule I guess. Tang will be stronger next year but Malachys were missing a good few also so should be expecting in to challenge next year at intermediate level depending on whos available to play!" I don't really understand this hate on penalties for relegation, two teams battled full time and extra time and couldn't be separated and people want it then to go to a replay with some saying there's no rush on the replay and can be played up to 8 weeks after, now I'm sure no player would want to wait up to 8 weeks training for one match after training so hard all year and especially some clubs with hurling like tang and malachys. So I think penalties need to be just accepted and practiced
wmeath7 (Westmeath) - Posts: 2 - 30/09/2025 21:20:36
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Replying To CleanShoulder: "The group of 6 works well to a point, however there are a couple of flaws as outlined, but it's always going to be hard to come up with a perfect solution that would please everyone. Here's my insight.
As it stands a team in group 1 could actually lose 4 matches whilst only winning 1 and qualify for a quarter final, while a team in group 2 could win 4 matches while losing only 1 in the same year and still not qualify, and there's the imbalance that needs to be corrected. The championships are already graded, as in senior, intermediate, junior. There should be no need to grade further within the championships and this is the flaw in the current format. If a team is senior then they are senior, and each team should be afforded an equal shot which doesn't happen as it's currently graded. There should be an open draw of 2 groups, and with something similar to the hurling which works really well, 3 teams qualify, group winners to the final and second and third place to a quarter final with bottom in each group playing off for relegation. As it stands there's little jeopardy in group A which means teams can coast through timing their run and rest players and afford longer recuperation for injuries etc than those in group B, and this is inherently unfair. Aside from Lomans and the Downs who have been the standard bearers in recent years, there is actually not an awful lot between most of the rest of the teams in the championship, so an open draw would be fairer on everyone, and so what if a so called group of death transpires, it would make it a hell of a lot more exciting when teams know that a slip up is more dangerous than before. It would almost certainly make it that a team with 3 or 4 losses couldn't qualify, games become more meaningful and everyone in their grade is at an equal footing, games would adapt a different intensity.
Look at group B in senior, Caulry, Moate and Killucan all with 3 wins but only 1 qualified, while Shamrocks and Kinnegad both get through with 2 wins from group A… Both quarter finals competitive, and look at the results in group B, there's nothing between any of the teams bar 1 or 2 outlying results which can happen anywhere.
Look at the intermediate this year, Multy qualified for a quarter final with 2 wins while CFCW failed to qualify with 3 wins, including a win over Milltownpass who went on to beat Multy in a quarter final, so very harsh on CFCW. This shows the disparity and how the system as it stands was unfair to group B teams, there is nothing much between these teams, so let them all into an open draw and fight it out on an equal footing.
Same with junior, there should be an open draw with first and second strings all in the pot together, 3 qualifying and improve the standard of junior overall.
That's my tuppence worth for what it counts anyway." There's a big difference between group A and B in the intermediate championship
Mooo (Westmeath) - Posts: 64 - 30/09/2025 21:46:42
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Replying To #Putitup: "Wouldn't agree with you there.. Anyone who attended the garrycastle v tang game will know that Garrycastle were hurting, Tang tactically puzzled them getting 3 breaches but had the bit of luck on their side to get the result in the end.. Yesterday Tang were very blatantly up against all the elements but in fairness they had been competitive in every game this campaign only a couple of scores in any of the games, Malachys shipped 2 big beatens during the group stages.. Penalties is horrible but it looked like Tang were prepared for them and their keeper was excellent" It was probably the goalkeeping display of the championship. Comfortable under the high ball throughout which took a lot of pressure off his defence, at least two point blank saves at crucial times, a goal line clearance at the end when Malachys were working their way in for a goal and played it out comfortably not afraid to take on the opposing players, kickouts were excellent and scored a two point free to top off an excellent display from play before slotting home Tang's first penalty in the shootout and saving three of Malachys four penalties. All three saves were great saves to the corners. A lot of talk all year about lack of stand out goalkeepers in club football and we ended up using a forward in goals all year for the county. Mark McHugh could do worse than have a look at Coughlan from Tang during the winter
mintyfresh (Westmeath) - Posts: 274 - 30/09/2025 21:48:08
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Replying To yellowboy: "Dont think so. Doubt many other than caulrians believe they will win one in our lifetime . wouldnt have given luke or many in north westmeath any sleepless nights." That may be true but I was referring to the chant. You can't begrudge a club for hoping anyhow. The Downs will be hard bet this year.
keepherclean (Westmeath) - Posts: 9 - 30/09/2025 22:09:30
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Replying To CleanShoulder: "The group of 6 works well to a point, however there are a couple of flaws as outlined, but it's always going to be hard to come up with a perfect solution that would please everyone. Here's my insight.
As it stands a team in group 1 could actually lose 4 matches whilst only winning 1 and qualify for a quarter final, while a team in group 2 could win 4 matches while losing only 1 in the same year and still not qualify, and there's the imbalance that needs to be corrected. The championships are already graded, as in senior, intermediate, junior. There should be no need to grade further within the championships and this is the flaw in the current format. If a team is senior then they are senior, and each team should be afforded an equal shot which doesn't happen as it's currently graded. There should be an open draw of 2 groups, and with something similar to the hurling which works really well, 3 teams qualify, group winners to the final and second and third place to a quarter final with bottom in each group playing off for relegation. As it stands there's little jeopardy in group A which means teams can coast through timing their run and rest players and afford longer recuperation for injuries etc than those in group B, and this is inherently unfair. Aside from Lomans and the Downs who have been the standard bearers in recent years, there is actually not an awful lot between most of the rest of the teams in the championship, so an open draw would be fairer on everyone, and so what if a so called group of death transpires, it would make it a hell of a lot more exciting when teams know that a slip up is more dangerous than before. It would almost certainly make it that a team with 3 or 4 losses couldn't qualify, games become more meaningful and everyone in their grade is at an equal footing, games would adapt a different intensity.
Look at group B in senior, Caulry, Moate and Killucan all with 3 wins but only 1 qualified, while Shamrocks and Kinnegad both get through with 2 wins from group A… Both quarter finals competitive, and look at the results in group B, there's nothing between any of the teams bar 1 or 2 outlying results which can happen anywhere.
Look at the intermediate this year, Multy qualified for a quarter final with 2 wins while CFCW failed to qualify with 3 wins, including a win over Milltownpass who went on to beat Multy in a quarter final, so very harsh on CFCW. This shows the disparity and how the system as it stands was unfair to group B teams, there is nothing much between these teams, so let them all into an open draw and fight it out on an equal footing.
Same with junior, there should be an open draw with first and second strings all in the pot together, 3 qualifying and improve the standard of junior overall.
That's my tuppence worth for what it counts anyway." Agree with a lot of what you're saying there. Another thing I don't like with current format is that Group 1 teams are exempt from relegation, no matter how bad a year they have. A group 1 team could in theory be the worst team in the championship if they had a few injuries, players emigrated or whatever, or even just a bad run of form and still not have any fear of relegation. For example, would the likes of Tang/St Malachys have feared playing Athlone/Tyrellspass who finished bottom of Section A in a one-off game to stay senior this year? I don't believe so. Would Kilbeggan have had zero chance of beating St Mary's Rochfordbridge at intermediate to stay up??..
TheLineKing (Westmeath) - Posts: 28 - 30/09/2025 22:32:01
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Replying To CleanShoulder: "The group of 6 works well to a point, however there are a couple of flaws as outlined, but it's always going to be hard to come up with a perfect solution that would please everyone. Here's my insight.
As it stands a team in group 1 could actually lose 4 matches whilst only winning 1 and qualify for a quarter final, while a team in group 2 could win 4 matches while losing only 1 in the same year and still not qualify, and there's the imbalance that needs to be corrected. The championships are already graded, as in senior, intermediate, junior. There should be no need to grade further within the championships and this is the flaw in the current format. If a team is senior then they are senior, and each team should be afforded an equal shot which doesn't happen as it's currently graded. There should be an open draw of 2 groups, and with something similar to the hurling which works really well, 3 teams qualify, group winners to the final and second and third place to a quarter final with bottom in each group playing off for relegation. As it stands there's little jeopardy in group A which means teams can coast through timing their run and rest players and afford longer recuperation for injuries etc than those in group B, and this is inherently unfair. Aside from Lomans and the Downs who have been the standard bearers in recent years, there is actually not an awful lot between most of the rest of the teams in the championship, so an open draw would be fairer on everyone, and so what if a so called group of death transpires, it would make it a hell of a lot more exciting when teams know that a slip up is more dangerous than before. It would almost certainly make it that a team with 3 or 4 losses couldn't qualify, games become more meaningful and everyone in their grade is at an equal footing, games would adapt a different intensity.
Look at group B in senior, Caulry, Moate and Killucan all with 3 wins but only 1 qualified, while Shamrocks and Kinnegad both get through with 2 wins from group A… Both quarter finals competitive, and look at the results in group B, there's nothing between any of the teams bar 1 or 2 outlying results which can happen anywhere.
Look at the intermediate this year, Multy qualified for a quarter final with 2 wins while CFCW failed to qualify with 3 wins, including a win over Milltownpass who went on to beat Multy in a quarter final, so very harsh on CFCW. This shows the disparity and how the system as it stands was unfair to group B teams, there is nothing much between these teams, so let them all into an open draw and fight it out on an equal footing.
Same with junior, there should be an open draw with first and second strings all in the pot together, 3 qualifying and improve the standard of junior overall.
That's my tuppence worth for what it counts anyway." Group A is stronger as the top six teams have qualified so comparing teams wins in different groups is irrelevant. In soccer terms you're advocating three teams from the Premier league qualifying for the champions league and three teams qualifying from the championship!! On the basis previously that Man City qualified by winning 22 games out of 38 while Birmingham didn't qualify despite winning 29 games!!! There's absolutely zero fairness in your system. Why not apply it to the hurling championship so if it's such a good system!! This year then we have Ctg, LLG, Raharney, Plunketts, Delvin and Ringtown in knockout stages. LLG play Ringtown while Raharney face Plunketts in two quarter finals!! Doubtful those two matches would generate much excitement or bring a half decent crowd to Cusack. Would there be a margin of 15-20 points in each game?? Qualifying for section A is not easy and therefore should be rewarded. It would be extremely unlikely that a team wins four matches and not qualify from section B but if they're good enough they will the following year and if they don't then clearly they weren't. Doubt you will meet many Killucan or Finea supporters lamenting how unlucky they were not to qualify for quarter finals, they weren't good enough is the reality.
Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 2373 - 01/10/2025 03:27:31
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Replying To CleanShoulder: "The group of 6 works well to a point, however there are a couple of flaws as outlined, but it's always going to be hard to come up with a perfect solution that would please everyone. Here's my insight.
As it stands a team in group 1 could actually lose 4 matches whilst only winning 1 and qualify for a quarter final, while a team in group 2 could win 4 matches while losing only 1 in the same year and still not qualify, and there's the imbalance that needs to be corrected. The championships are already graded, as in senior, intermediate, junior. There should be no need to grade further within the championships and this is the flaw in the current format. If a team is senior then they are senior, and each team should be afforded an equal shot which doesn't happen as it's currently graded. There should be an open draw of 2 groups, and with something similar to the hurling which works really well, 3 teams qualify, group winners to the final and second and third place to a quarter final with bottom in each group playing off for relegation. As it stands there's little jeopardy in group A which means teams can coast through timing their run and rest players and afford longer recuperation for injuries etc than those in group B, and this is inherently unfair. Aside from Lomans and the Downs who have been the standard bearers in recent years, there is actually not an awful lot between most of the rest of the teams in the championship, so an open draw would be fairer on everyone, and so what if a so called group of death transpires, it would make it a hell of a lot more exciting when teams know that a slip up is more dangerous than before. It would almost certainly make it that a team with 3 or 4 losses couldn't qualify, games become more meaningful and everyone in their grade is at an equal footing, games would adapt a different intensity.
Look at group B in senior, Caulry, Moate and Killucan all with 3 wins but only 1 qualified, while Shamrocks and Kinnegad both get through with 2 wins from group A… Both quarter finals competitive, and look at the results in group B, there's nothing between any of the teams bar 1 or 2 outlying results which can happen anywhere.
Look at the intermediate this year, Multy qualified for a quarter final with 2 wins while CFCW failed to qualify with 3 wins, including a win over Milltownpass who went on to beat Multy in a quarter final, so very harsh on CFCW. This shows the disparity and how the system as it stands was unfair to group B teams, there is nothing much between these teams, so let them all into an open draw and fight it out on an equal footing.
Same with junior, there should be an open draw with first and second strings all in the pot together, 3 qualifying and improve the standard of junior overall.
That's my tuppence worth for what it counts anyway." The bottom four in group B would ship heavy beatings from the group A.
Group B needs more wins to get out of it but the teams gain momentum. The format is brilliant, teams have meaningful games right to the end. Only one team in each group had nothing to play for by the last round. Tang, Malachys would have shipped horrendous hammerings in straight groups. The players aren't silly, they know they're in an easier group. It really is a great format if you stop looking at wins vs losses in two different groups. I understand where you're coming from but Tubberclair/Shandonagh would come up and get hammering in at least 4 games if there was no A/B. The group B gives the teams a stepping stone and if they are good enough they get a shot at a team from group A.
Gaawestmeath (Westmeath) - Posts: 112 - 01/10/2025 07:15:35
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Lomans since 2013 have been a bit like Kerry where they either win a championship or come very close.
No knockout match in that time frame where Lomans have been comprehensively beaten.
Bookmakers suggest this year be different but I've seen nothing to suggest it will.
Lomans could be value team to back at this stage.
Blackjack (Westmeath) - Posts: 36 - 01/10/2025 08:31:47
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