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Westmeath Football thread

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Replying To Bruno@1:  "Quite possible that after the next round of games in senior A-Kinnegad could join the Downs in section B next year-now wouldnt that be some turnaround!!"
What would it take for that to happen

Greenandgoldie (Westmeath) - Posts: 154 - 08/08/2023 14:41:50    2499545

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Replying To Brendanj:  "Rule 6.21 was updated at Congress earlier in the year, see below.

Except where provided for otherwise in these Rules, in County Bye-Law or in Competition
Regulation, when Teams finish with equal points for Qualification for the Concluding Stages, or for Promotion or Relegation, the tie shall be decided by the following means and in the order specified:
(i) The higher number of League Points obtained in the 'Head-to-Head' games defined as the games in which the teams involved in the tie have played each other.
(ii) The higher Scoring Difference (subtracting the total Scores Against from total Scores For) in the 'Head-to-Head' games.
(iii) The higher Scores For in the 'Head-to-Head' games.
(iv) If the application of criteria (i) to (iii) results in a team(s) being successful or eliminated but there is still a relevant tie to be decided, criteria (i) to (iii) are to be repeated for the 'Head-to-Head' games only of the still tied teams.
(v) The higher Scoring Difference in all games in the League Group.
(vi) The higher Scores For in all games in the League Group.
(vii) A Play-Off.


If for example 3 teams are tied then only the games involving the 3 teams are used to rank. Its like a little mini league among the 3 tied teams."
Right , so in a 3 way tie between Athlone , Shandonagh , and Shamrocks/Moate , it will be Shamrocks/Moate who go through on scoring difference.
Quite amazing that we have a situation where it is not in any teams hands. They all need other results to go right too.

jamsie (Westmeath) - Posts: 465 - 08/08/2023 14:42:25    2499546

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Replying To Gaa_lover:  "Running off your senior championship a bit too quickly? Teams relegated in early August and the Leinster championship doesn't starts until November."
22nd October is not November. The winners still have 4 more games to play.

jamsie (Westmeath) - Posts: 465 - 08/08/2023 14:52:22    2499549

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Replying To Gaa_lover:  "Running off your senior championship a bit too quickly? Teams relegated in early August and the Leinster championship doesn't starts until November."
One team relegated because they lost all their games and got relegated with a game to spare. That's not an issue with the format. It's an issue with the team that lost their four opening championship games. All teams bar 2 in each group with something to play for going into last round in Senior championship and two of those teams are already through to the knockout stages. It's one of the most competitive county championships out there. The group stages won't be finished until the last week in August. Each team is playing league football since February so I really don't see what you're getting at here. A group stage to cut 12 teams down to 6 played over two months is very fair and balanced

mintyfresh (Westmeath) - Posts: 251 - 08/08/2023 15:27:45    2499559

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Exactly Jamsie, hard to blame competition structure for teams being relegated or demoted with a full round to play, the ones in that position are Finea, St. Mary's and The Downs who between them have 1 point from 12 matches. What's supposed to happen? Even supporters of those clubs acknowledge their deserving to be relegated

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1949 - 08/08/2023 15:30:00    2499560

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If Killucan beat Loman's which is obviously unlikely but Loman's are guaranteed top spot regardless, if Caulry beat The Downs who have only pride at stake, if Tyrrellspass beat Kinnegad then Caulry finish second, Tyrrellspass third and Killucan fourth.

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1949 - 08/08/2023 15:32:45    2499564

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Replying To lakecounty90:  "Thought ref gave Killucan loads of soft frees in front of goal wouldnt have won without them frees and then there GK stupidly took a Kinnegad player out of it should have been a red.
2 points from play wont win you most games but then same goes for Kinnegad scoring 7 points.
It was probably the worst game of football Ive seen all year, two ultra defensive teams with no attacking game plan.
All of a sudden John Morleys have a very good chance of getting to quarter final as Lomans likely to rest players in last round.
What have we learned from the weekend??
Lomans wont be touched and can start preparing for Leinster.
This is the way I see it ending up in Section A
1 Lomans 7
2 Caulry 6
3 Tyrrellspass 6
4 Killucan 5
5 Kinnegad 5
6 The Downs 1"
Think you may have tinted glasses on. Referee got most decisions right. The player the goalie pulled down should have seen the line earlier for his usual striking offence in the incident where fleming got his black. I think the goalies was more a black card than a red as he pulled him down rather than struck but made no difference to the result as there wasn't more than a minute left.

CasKD (Westmeath) - Posts: 38 - 08/08/2023 16:41:31    2499588

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Replying To mintyfresh:  "One team relegated because they lost all their games and got relegated with a game to spare. That's not an issue with the format. It's an issue with the team that lost their four opening championship games. All teams bar 2 in each group with something to play for going into last round in Senior championship and two of those teams are already through to the knockout stages. It's one of the most competitive county championships out there. The group stages won't be finished until the last week in August. Each team is playing league football since February so I really don't see what you're getting at here. A group stage to cut 12 teams down to 6 played over two months is very fair and balanced"
All seems a little rushed when a team is relegated in early August and perhaps after the group stages the bottom team in each group should go into a play off round.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3504 - 08/08/2023 16:41:43    2499589

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Replying To Claretandblue:  "If Killucan beat Loman's which is obviously unlikely but Loman's are guaranteed top spot regardless, if Caulry beat The Downs who have only pride at stake, if Tyrrellspass beat Kinnegad then Caulry finish second, Tyrrellspass third and Killucan fourth."
You also have the possibility of
Killucan drawing
Kinnegad win
The Downs win

That would bring it to scoring difference and Cake Currans masterclass against Lomans would then come back to bite..
Very unlikely but would be great to see

CasKD (Westmeath) - Posts: 38 - 08/08/2023 16:47:02    2499591

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Replying To Claretandblue:  "Anyone thinking that Shane Curran is giving a masterclass in anything except codding supporters needs to have a chat with someone. Caulry supporters in Cusack on Saturday were fuming at the carry on, a potentially decent game ruined by sideline shenanigans, Loman's weren't overly impressed either, their players felt distrspected in a championship encounter."
Well now Clare, I don't think that's entirely fair. I understand why many are upset over his decision to not go all out against Lomans. Of course no one wants to watch a match where one team isn't even trying to win. However from a tactical point of view I understand where he's coming from. There was no chance of Caulry beating Lomans. They had a spirited performance against Killucan in their previous outing but that still doesn't put them near the level of Lomans. I think it was the better option to not reveal their hand in a game where they are nearly guaranteed to lose. The better option is to leave it until their next run in wit Lomans to go all out. For their next game Caulry know exactly how Lomans will set up. However Lomans won't have a clue abt any of Caulry's tactics or game plan. To be honest I think this advantage on the tacital side of things is Caulry only chance of ever beating Lomans. Because of all this I agree with Curren's decision. Even if it did make the game a worse experience for the fans.

Lester_O’Dowd123 (Westmeath) - Posts: 2 - 08/08/2023 17:18:31    2499598

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How can the bottom team in each group play off when the groups are of different standards??? Suspect our man is a supporter from The Downs who can't believe championship is over by August bank holiday after being in Leinster club final eight months ago, that's a testament to the competitive nature of the Westmeath championships at all levels.

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1949 - 08/08/2023 17:33:08    2499602

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Replying To Gaa_lover:  "All seems a little rushed when a team is relegated in early August and perhaps after the group stages the bottom team in each group should go into a play off round."
The groups are split into section A and B and the incentive of being in section A is that you cannot be relegated therefore the incentive for the teams in section B is to qualify for the knockouts and be in Section A the following year and safe from relegation for at least one year.

There would be a playoff as you suggested if teams on the bottom of Section B had the same points but in this years case Garrycastle have won 0 out of 4 games and cannot catch any of the others meaning they are relegated with a game left. It's not ideal for them but if they won even one game to date they would have something to play for going into the last game. It's no fault of the format. They have five games therefore five opportunities to make something of their season. The season is not rushed when five group matches are spread out over two months. It's a very lazy and misinformed suggestion to come onto a forum and slate a format that has worked well for the last number of years without any complaint from the clubs involved.

mintyfresh (Westmeath) - Posts: 251 - 08/08/2023 21:10:52    2499624

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Replying To CasKD:  "You also have the possibility of
Killucan drawing
Kinnegad win
The Downs win

That would bring it to scoring difference and Cake Currans masterclass against Lomans would then come back to bite..
Very unlikely but would be great to see"
Not sure if you're correct on this one CasKD ?? If this unlikely scenario was to play out then Tpass, Caulry and Killucan are level on points would the 'mini-league' scenario happen, as BrendanJ pointed out earlier. If this was to happen, Killucan would be going to Section B as they lost to both Tpass and Caulry

keepherclean (Westmeath) - Posts: 7 - 09/08/2023 08:19:38    2499636

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Replying To Gaa_lover:  "All seems a little rushed when a team is relegated in early August and perhaps after the group stages the bottom team in each group should go into a play off round."
This was the rule a couple of years ago and it was rightly changed.

Why should Garycastle have the opportunity of staying up when everyone else has won two games and Garrycastle none? They are rightly relegated to Intermediate based on results to date.

ondeball (Westmeath) - Posts: 122 - 09/08/2023 08:32:26    2499638

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Replying To mintyfresh:  "The groups are split into section A and B and the incentive of being in section A is that you cannot be relegated therefore the incentive for the teams in section B is to qualify for the knockouts and be in Section A the following year and safe from relegation for at least one year.

There would be a playoff as you suggested if teams on the bottom of Section B had the same points but in this years case Garrycastle have won 0 out of 4 games and cannot catch any of the others meaning they are relegated with a game left. It's not ideal for them but if they won even one game to date they would have something to play for going into the last game. It's no fault of the format. They have five games therefore five opportunities to make something of their season. The season is not rushed when five group matches are spread out over two months. It's a very lazy and misinformed suggestion to come onto a forum and slate a format that has worked well for the last number of years without any complaint from the clubs involved."
I agree, Minthfresh - the present system is a good format and should be continued. Nobody wants to be finished in August, but when we had knock-out championships some clubs would be finished in June or July, except maybe for a few (often meaningless) league games. When we had a two group system, the groups were often lopsided, with one group much stronger than the other, so what we have now is fair and balanced, and clubs generally find themselves at their appropriate level. I don't think you'll hear anyone from Garrycastle blaming the system for their relegation. Similar to last year, they lost a couple of vital games by a point which ultimately led to their demotion. When you lose four championship games two years in a row you can't really have any excuses.

midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 589 - 09/08/2023 09:44:43    2499643

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Replying To ondeball:  "This was the rule a couple of years ago and it was rightly changed.

Why should Garycastle have the opportunity of staying up when everyone else has won two games and Garrycastle none? They are rightly relegated to Intermediate based on results to date."
They will find it hard come back up too, Absolutely putrid underage in recent history.

sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1186 - 09/08/2023 15:08:49    2499754

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Easy to kick lads when they're down, if every club put in the work that Garrycastle did over the past 35 years then Westmeath would be All Ireland contenders, men like Dermot Ryan, Gantly and loads of others produced a club from nothing to win Junior, Intermediate, Senior, Leinster and a whisker away from
An All Ireland, not forgetting huge contributions to various county teams with loads of stellar players including some of our best ever. Their senior team won 8 championships in less than 20 years, they played great football and were impeccably clean. They may have stuttered at underage in recent years and that's taking its toll and their route back to senior will be difficult if John Gaffey, Doran Harte and others decide to retire but they should be lauded for their consistent excellence over 25 years.

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1949 - 09/08/2023 16:53:49    2499784

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Replying To keepherclean:  "Not sure if you're correct on this one CasKD ?? If this unlikely scenario was to play out then Tpass, Caulry and Killucan are level on points would the 'mini-league' scenario happen, as BrendanJ pointed out earlier. If this was to happen, Killucan would be going to Section B as they lost to both Tpass and Caulry"
The one with the best scoring difference of the 3 teams would go through. Note only the scoring difference between the 3 teams involved is to be used, not overall scoring difference. This went trough at congress this year apparently.

Jack_Sparrow (Westmeath) - Posts: 1031 - 09/08/2023 17:32:15    2499792

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Replying To mintyfresh:  "The groups are split into section A and B and the incentive of being in section A is that you cannot be relegated therefore the incentive for the teams in section B is to qualify for the knockouts and be in Section A the following year and safe from relegation for at least one year.

There would be a playoff as you suggested if teams on the bottom of Section B had the same points but in this years case Garrycastle have won 0 out of 4 games and cannot catch any of the others meaning they are relegated with a game left. It's not ideal for them but if they won even one game to date they would have something to play for going into the last game. It's no fault of the format. They have five games therefore five opportunities to make something of their season. The season is not rushed when five group matches are spread out over two months. It's a very lazy and misinformed suggestion to come onto a forum and slate a format that has worked well for the last number of years without any complaint from the clubs involved."
Not lazy nor mis formed to have the opinion that its too soon for any team to have their club championship over in early August.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3504 - 09/08/2023 20:35:21    2499806

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Replying To sourmilk93:  "They will find it hard come back up too, Absolutely putrid underage in recent history."
Do the bottom two not playoff .

Icehouse (Westmeath) - Posts: 81 - 09/08/2023 20:54:31    2499810

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