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And its not an anti country lads either. There are many fine people involved in Dublin clubs who were born outside of the county. In many cases they are the heart and soul of clubs. My grandfather was Tipp man who hurled here with Commercials and with Dublin. People like him brought hurling to the city, no disputing that.

Packing teams with inter county lads is different universe entirely. Not on.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2721 - 10/10/2023 15:07:59    2507734

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "That's the whole point. They do, and they brought three local lads on including Danny Suthcliffe who almost dragged them back into it.

Cluxton refused to play senior with Parnells when they were at that game. He kicked junior instead to stand by his friends. That ended badly too. They never won anything. Nor will judes."
Stephen was correct in his stance then also Barney.

Short term gain and all that - glad it hasnt worked out.
Nothing against the likes of the Dublin players on the Judes team at all - not their fault this carry on is happening.
The likes of Kev Mc deserves a Dublin SFC winner medal.

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3755 - 10/10/2023 21:32:58    2507805

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "That's the whole point. They do, and they brought three local lads on including Danny Suthcliffe who almost dragged them back into it.

Cluxton refused to play senior with Parnells when they were at that game. He kicked junior instead to stand by his friends. That ended badly too. They never won anything. Nor will judes."
Are Judes actively recruiting lads as Parnell's did though or is it just a place that suits for lads moving to Dublin? Do they do the same with their hurlers?

If they're not recruiting as such, not really much thet can do is there? Don't think I've ever heard of a club refusing someone.

Low2Joe (Wexford) - Posts: 48 - 10/10/2023 22:49:20    2507809

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Replying To Low2Joe:  "Are Judes actively recruiting lads as Parnell's did though or is it just a place that suits for lads moving to Dublin? Do they do the same with their hurlers?

If they're not recruiting as such, not really much thet can do is there? Don't think I've ever heard of a club refusing someone."
Parish rule in Dublin is meaningless really, I was at county board conventions in past where small clubs like my own used periodically attempt to impose controls on the bigger ones taking underage players from schools and clubs indeed outside of their own patch. Never got anywhere.

So basically you can play with whoever you wish. Which in a big city makes sense as community doesn't mean much anymore. Thing with country fellas is that in general this is grand. Lads play with club where they are living, or where their friends/work mates are or indeed in some cases where there is still a connection with a particular club. Commercials/Tipp would still be a thing,

That of course leaves system open to abuse. I am not accusing Judes or anyone else of cheating but so many inter county lads do not all decide on a whim to live in the area or all play for one particular club. Robert Emmets is down the road, Crumlin not far away. Why not them?

Anyway, it rarely works and hasn't in this instance. UCD dominance of hurling championship under Babs was disaster for both clubs and county. Good thing it stopped, This by way of a team that was denied at least a draw against Ballyhale in Leinster final one year. All inter county lads of some level, Not one from Dublin,

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2721 - 11/10/2023 10:14:47    2507827

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Parish rule in Dublin is meaningless really, I was at county board conventions in past where small clubs like my own used periodically attempt to impose controls on the bigger ones taking underage players from schools and clubs indeed outside of their own patch. Never got anywhere.

So basically you can play with whoever you wish. Which in a big city makes sense as community doesn't mean much anymore. Thing with country fellas is that in general this is grand. Lads play with club where they are living, or where their friends/work mates are or indeed in some cases where there is still a connection with a particular club. Commercials/Tipp would still be a thing,

That of course leaves system open to abuse. I am not accusing Judes or anyone else of cheating but so many inter county lads do not all decide on a whim to live in the area or all play for one particular club. Robert Emmets is down the road, Crumlin not far away. Why not them?

Anyway, it rarely works and hasn't in this instance. UCD dominance of hurling championship under Babs was disaster for both clubs and county. Good thing it stopped, This by way of a team that was denied at least a draw against Ballyhale in Leinster final one year. All inter county lads of some level, Not one from Dublin,"
It would be hard alright to enforce a parish rule in Dublin. It'd nearly be unfair with the way housing is at the minute.

I presume those lads went to Jude's as they were senior. Like you said, I can't see it working when lads are brought in on that scale though. Pity for the Jude's homegrown lads.

Looking at Dublin and many other counties it's the big clubs with massive numbers in the more middle class areas that seem to have taken over or are on their way to taking over. Going to be very hard for smaller clubs to compete at the top grades unless they get a golden crop at an age group. Have discussed it with others from around home and we wouldn't be shocked to see amalgamations becoming the norm so players can compete at the top grades.

Low2Joe (Wexford) - Posts: 48 - 12/10/2023 00:13:11    2507968

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Replying To Low2Joe:  "It would be hard alright to enforce a parish rule in Dublin. It'd nearly be unfair with the way housing is at the minute.

I presume those lads went to Jude's as they were senior. Like you said, I can't see it working when lads are brought in on that scale though. Pity for the Jude's homegrown lads.

Looking at Dublin and many other counties it's the big clubs with massive numbers in the more middle class areas that seem to have taken over or are on their way to taking over. Going to be very hard for smaller clubs to compete at the top grades unless they get a golden crop at an age group. Have discussed it with others from around home and we wouldn't be shocked to see amalgamations becoming the norm so players can compete at the top grades."
GAA requires a solid community and family basis. As these are starting to disappear from large parts of Dublin the GAA is in terminal decline there.

Dublin GAA has no real incentive to address that with coaching etc as the county teams are based overwhelmingly now on the big clubs in middle class suburbia. Fair play to them, they are communities in which families and schools are invested in their local clubs. That has long since ceased to be the case in most working class areas unless the local club has strong enough roots to survive, which some do. Where the city is expanding into high rise and estates where many if not most people are not Irish, the GAA is non existent. There are whole swathes of Dublin where the AI final might as well have been on Mars.

Harsh but true. Judes have no excuse for looking beyond their own local schools and community for players, by the way. It has all the advantages of the Bodens and Crokes and Na Fiannas et al.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2721 - 12/10/2023 16:07:04    2508057

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "GAA requires a solid community and family basis. As these are starting to disappear from large parts of Dublin the GAA is in terminal decline there.

Dublin GAA has no real incentive to address that with coaching etc as the county teams are based overwhelmingly now on the big clubs in middle class suburbia. Fair play to them, they are communities in which families and schools are invested in their local clubs. That has long since ceased to be the case in most working class areas unless the local club has strong enough roots to survive, which some do. Where the city is expanding into high rise and estates where many if not most people are not Irish, the GAA is non existent. There are whole swathes of Dublin where the AI final might as well have been on Mars.

Harsh but true. Judes have no excuse for looking beyond their own local schools and community for players, by the way. It has all the advantages of the Bodens and Crokes and Na Fiannas et al."
I agree with alot of your points Barney but the reality is the top clubs are not going to turn away a top player if it means winning championship. Even St. Vincent's who were in the wilderness for over 20 years realised around 06/07 that to keep up with the big guns they needed imports and got a few in from Kerry and Mayo and won the championship again. Na Fianna were ONÉ of the worst offenders and of course Parnells.As stated parish rule non existent in Dublin but maybe if the county board or central council put a cap on the number of "outsiders" allowed play with a club it might help although propably plenty of loopholes too. It is very tough on the homegrown players but no one cares in the long run once teams are successful.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3702 - 12/10/2023 17:58:12    2508075

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "I agree with alot of your points Barney but the reality is the top clubs are not going to turn away a top player if it means winning championship. Even St. Vincent's who were in the wilderness for over 20 years realised around 06/07 that to keep up with the big guns they needed imports and got a few in from Kerry and Mayo and won the championship again. Na Fianna were ONÉ of the worst offenders and of course Parnells.As stated parish rule non existent in Dublin but maybe if the county board or central council put a cap on the number of "outsiders" allowed play with a club it might help although propably plenty of loopholes too. It is very tough on the homegrown players but no one cares in the long run once teams are successful."
People do care. It was big issue in Vinnies. Vinnies had cut their teeth in 40s as Dublin club that was up against clubs full of county lads and All Ireland winners who dominated county championships for years. Quite a few old timers didn't sit well with the imports although there were only two starters on teams(s) that won AI - Varley and Egan?

There needs to be a balance. Of course you can't be telling lads like Walsh and Darragh O'Connell and Ryan Dwyer and Hennelly to take a hike if they are living and working in Dublin but there does need to be a balance. A cap would not work for all the reasons you cited.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2721 - 13/10/2023 11:11:41    2508136

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "People do care. It was big issue in Vinnies. Vinnies had cut their teeth in 40s as Dublin club that was up against clubs full of county lads and All Ireland winners who dominated county championships for years. Quite a few old timers didn't sit well with the imports although there were only two starters on teams(s) that won AI - Varley and Egan?

There needs to be a balance. Of course you can't be telling lads like Walsh and Darragh O'Connell and Ryan Dwyer and Hennelly to take a hike if they are living and working in Dublin but there does need to be a balance. A cap would not work for all the reasons you cited."
Well Vincents had a Kerry lad midfield when the won All Ireland in 08 called Michael OShea but my point is that they were the one club that tried to stay away from outsiders as much as possible.Many might not have been pleased but The management knew at the time the needed to do it in order to keep up with the other big Dublin clubs.You probably right in that a cap would nt work but i hate poaching players etc.I have no problem with a lad genuinely working or living near the club playing but going to the club because of perks is a no no.I remember Cluxton referring to some outside players getting mobile phone bills paid at Parnells and he quite rightly stated these are nt the lads he grew up playing with and played midfield with the second team instead.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3702 - 13/10/2023 15:45:31    2508225

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Well Vincents had a Kerry lad midfield when the won All Ireland in 08 called Michael OShea but my point is that they were the one club that tried to stay away from outsiders as much as possible.Many might not have been pleased but The management knew at the time the needed to do it in order to keep up with the other big Dublin clubs.You probably right in that a cap would nt work but i hate poaching players etc.I have no problem with a lad genuinely working or living near the club playing but going to the club because of perks is a no no.I remember Cluxton referring to some outside players getting mobile phone bills paid at Parnells and he quite rightly stated these are nt the lads he grew up playing with and played midfield with the second team instead."
O'Shea, apologies. I thought there was Egan lad from your way too?

Cluxton's reference to the mobile phone bills was perhaps a euphemism! Lot more than that if the talk is true, Parnells had made huge killing on a property deal and thought they were Abramovich!

Faughs hurling - coincidentally right beside Judes - are an example of a club that at one time way back used to dominate Dublin hurling and were still strong up to 15/20 years ago but now on the slide. They were a sort of natural club in that country lads had always hurled with them and still do. in fairness though they started a juvenile section and are still going strong albeit at a lower level. They never went poaching.

I can recall ferocious battles between them and my uncles' club in 70s when both had a lot of county fellas, Dublin on our side and Ned Rea of Limerick and a few others with Faughs. Beating them in championship was huge thing for Dublin clubs including Vinnies and you got nothing soft from them! Maybe Judes footballers might drop in for a few words of advice :-)

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2721 - 13/10/2023 16:52:35    2508239

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To be fair I don't think poaching is as major an issue as people make out. Yes it happens in places but definitely not the norm. Anyways if there's lads who are willing to move clubs in those circumstances, you're probably better off without them. Lads relocating and joining clubs in the bigger towns/ cities will always happen and and lads capable of playing at a high level will go where they see the best chance of success. Unless they have ties to a certain club through family or such.

That said that craic with Parnell's sounded crazy. Obviously absolute morons running the club at the time. It all burnt out very quick for them.

Low2Joe (Wexford) - Posts: 48 - 13/10/2023 22:38:40    2508279

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Replying To Low2Joe:  "To be fair I don't think poaching is as major an issue as people make out. Yes it happens in places but definitely not the norm. Anyways if there's lads who are willing to move clubs in those circumstances, you're probably better off without them. Lads relocating and joining clubs in the bigger towns/ cities will always happen and and lads capable of playing at a high level will go where they see the best chance of success. Unless they have ties to a certain club through family or such.

That said that craic with Parnell's sounded crazy. Obviously absolute morons running the club at the time. It all burnt out very quick for them."
They lost run of themselves. Built a huge bar at same time that was and is probably still is mostly full of lads watching English soccer. Paying for it now as nowhere near any sort of level they once were.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2721 - 14/10/2023 11:15:25    2508310

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Seems to be straight forward enough tomorrow. Boden and Na Fianna to win.

Boden probably a bit too much for Vinnies but Na Fianna v Lucan be interesting. Na Fianna on paper are better team and have been coming into it nicely and getting the Crokes monkey off their back should push them to win county. Still...

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2721 - 14/10/2023 23:34:52    2508390

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Must be ice in Dermie's veins! Not great game but exciting end to Boden v Vinnies which ends in last second equaliser by Connolly to bring it to extra time. They should have done it within the hour.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2721 - 15/10/2023 15:29:41    2508460

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What a crazy game! Vinnies got penalty in last second and saved! Connolly ended by being sent off too. Cliffhanger.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2721 - 15/10/2023 16:02:58    2508464

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Second game very disappointing. Na Fianna never looked like being beaten. Six weeks off - a great comment on the split season in Dublin anyway - did Lucan no favours but just never got going up front. Big tough hardy aggressive but that only get you so far.

I really hope Na Fianna win the final. Nothing against Boden but be great for a club that has put so much into hurling over its 70 odds years to finally win a county. Incredibly its only their third final and third in a row.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2721 - 15/10/2023 17:52:16    2508483

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Second game very disappointing. Na Fianna never looked like being beaten. Six weeks off - a great comment on the split season in Dublin anyway - did Lucan no favours but just never got going up front. Big tough hardy aggressive but that only get you so far.

I really hope Na Fianna win the final. Nothing against Boden but be great for a club that has put so much into hurling over its 70 odds years to finally win a county. Incredibly its only their third final and third in a row."
Vinnies could have won it in normal time alright - some bad wides.
And really, the penalty should have been blasted to the net by TC.

Super effort though by them against a much fancied Boden team.
This will be a tough one for Vincent's to take.

Na Fianna were never in trouble, and as you say, 3rd Final in a Row.
Really hoping they get over the line in the decider, and hope Boden win the Football Final.

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3755 - 16/10/2023 09:06:18    2508573

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Replying To Fionn:  "Vinnies could have won it in normal time alright - some bad wides.
And really, the penalty should have been blasted to the net by TC.

Super effort though by them against a much fancied Boden team.
This will be a tough one for Vincent's to take.

Na Fianna were never in trouble, and as you say, 3rd Final in a Row.
Really hoping they get over the line in the decider, and hope Boden win the Football Final."
Connolly getting sent off for mouthing at ref did them no favours either. I've seen Hedger blast penalties. No idea why they didn't give it to him. He's some belt of a sliothar, assuming it is directed properly!

Hard to believe its 30 years since Vinnies won a county. They practically dominated it at one stage.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2721 - 16/10/2023 11:14:57    2508591

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What did you think of the standard of games Fionn? Donoghue has been watching closely, and indeed not just Senior 1, but I wouldn't say he has seen a huge amount of new talent. I think AJ and Enright of Na Fianna have certainly earned a shot at senior, but it was noticeable yesterday particularly that it is the established lads and indeed the former county lads - Lambert (brilliant for Boden), Rushie, Burke, Conor Connolly, Keaney even when he's come off bench, Crummys, McCaffrey who have been the main fellas.

That's not good i think. Looking forward to the final and hopefully be a cracker and see maybe a few of the younger fellas stick their paw up.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2721 - 16/10/2023 16:40:59    2508693

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "What did you think of the standard of games Fionn? Donoghue has been watching closely, and indeed not just Senior 1, but I wouldn't say he has seen a huge amount of new talent. I think AJ and Enright of Na Fianna have certainly earned a shot at senior, but it was noticeable yesterday particularly that it is the established lads and indeed the former county lads - Lambert (brilliant for Boden), Rushie, Burke, Conor Connolly, Keaney even when he's come off bench, Crummys, McCaffrey who have been the main fellas.

That's not good i think. Looking forward to the final and hopefully be a cracker and see maybe a few of the younger fellas stick their paw up."
I think when you have seasoned lads still playing as well as younger lads, then it shows the talent pool is not that deep or that great at all. Add to this that Danny has a lot of miles on the clock and is not as influential as he was either.

I think Murphy will get a shot alright.

I thought Madden did an excellent job on JH by the way.

I like what Donoghue is doing - but just a pity we didnt get him when a lot of our top players were at their peak.

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3755 - 16/10/2023 17:20:40    2508707

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