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Replying To Canuck: "How shameful of you to talk about Waterford county players like this. Okay lets discuss the Waterford county players. Did you see any of the two senior Mahony's involved in any fracas today. They led their two younger siblings and team by example. If you want a hero look at Philip. Two broken legs this year and stared. 36 year former county great Shane Sullivan was not pulling on anyone's hands. Loughmore deserve plaudits for being there today but somehow or other the intent was to bully Ballygunner and it did not work. Noel McGrath might not throw his weight around if it was Austin Gleeson or someone else. Leavey is a young kid starting out. Ref or no ref the McGrath's plotted their own destiny today. Skill won out and if it were a dry sod it would have been a blow out.
You In Limerick like us knows how difficult it was to get to the top at club or county against the elite counties. If Ballygunner are beaten by Kilmallock I hope they win it all. The same way as I will root for Limerick if we can not win. I have never vilified Limerick's player in any situation against us or anyone else and there has been plenty of them. I wonder are ye beginning to smell yereself's a bit ? The likes of Oldtourman on here does not.
I am not a Ballygunner local supporter but they can be proud of where they have come from and we in Waterford are proud of our players. Long ago we gave up blaming others when we don't succeed." Canuck it was just a bad combination of circumstances today with atrocious weather, a ref who can do funny things(the bigger the profile of the player he will send off and then try to even it up with soft frees) and Loughmore playing a physical game against a team who do a lot of short passing in tight spaces in slippery conditions.I thought Ballygunner were much better but their short game does not suit winter hurling.The final however should be close with a better ref on a better pitch.
updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 817 - 12/12/2021 21:52:58
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Replying To Canuck: "How shameful of you to talk about Waterford county players like this. Okay lets discuss the Waterford county players. Did you see any of the two senior Mahony's involved in any fracas today. They led their two younger siblings and team by example. If you want a hero look at Philip. Two broken legs this year and stared. 36 year former county great Shane Sullivan was not pulling on anyone's hands. Loughmore deserve plaudits for being there today but somehow or other the intent was to bully Ballygunner and it did not work. Noel McGrath might not throw his weight around if it was Austin Gleeson or someone else. Leavey is a young kid starting out. Ref or no ref the McGrath's plotted their own destiny today. Skill won out and if it were a dry sod it would have been a blow out.
You In Limerick like us knows how difficult it was to get to the top at club or county against the elite counties. If Ballygunner are beaten by Kilmallock I hope they win it all. The same way as I will root for Limerick if we can not win. I have never vilified Limerick's player in any situation against us or anyone else and there has been plenty of them. I wonder are ye beginning to smell yereself's a bit ? The likes of Oldtourman on here does not.
I am not a Ballygunner local supporter but they can be proud of where they have come from and we in Waterford are proud of our players. Long ago we gave up blaming others when we don't succeed." Canuck, you describe as shameful what the Limerick poster said about your county players and then you proceed to cast aspersions on Noel and John McGrath. You rightly praise Philip O'Mahony and describe him as a hero but surely there is no greater example of heroism than Noel McGrath, who came back from a very serious illness to win a host of awards with club and county. And what is the basis for your claim that Loughmore went out to bully Ballygunner? They didn't set out to bully younger teams in the Tipp championship so why would they try it on a seasoned team like Ballygunner? Noel McGrath didn't initiate anything. His shoulder on Leavy was in retaliation for an incident just moments earlier which for some reason the officials chose to ignore. By the way, I would question your conclusion that it would have been "a blow out" on a dry sod. Loughmore have played brilliantly on the lively sod in Semple Stadium and to imply that the heavy sod in Fraher's Field suited them more than Ballygunner simply defies logic.
midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 545 - 12/12/2021 22:04:27
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Replying To Canuck: "Loughmore deserve credit for their season. The reality is they were beaten by the better team today. Ballygunner missed a penalty, one of the best keepers in Ireland made unbelievable stops and Hutchison head and shoulders above anyone else on the field.
With regards the sending offs. I got ripped for saying that frontal charges should be aloud. McGrath hit an unsuspecting player frontal in retaliation with no play. His choice. A yellow would be sufficient. Coughlan's hand is being X-Rayed. I hate fakers also but both of these players were injured in these cases should not be vilified and shamed. There were players on this Loughmore who played out of their skin and the McGrath's should be ashamed for letting them down. Blame the correct people.
The ref was not good but it could be equally said that Hutchison could have had two more penalties awarded to him. It was obvious he was trying to even it up after the first red.
The vitriol on here towards Ballygunner and Waterford is shameful but not unexpected I suppose." There's a lot of bull in that post. Ballygunner missed a penalty but LC missed 4 clear goal chances of their own...if you include the over turned penalty. Ballygunner were poor yesterday in poor conditions it must be said. Without Hutchison who was the main contributor in at least 2-7 they would have lost comfortably. A lot of the others failed to stand up. On their day they are the best team in Munster but they were not good yesterday by any stretch and continue to flatter to deceive. You say you hate fakers but in the previous sentence you say Coughlan has gone for an x-ray on his hand. Do you really expect people to believe that? Even if the flick hit his hand (which I dont think it did), a flick that light wouldnt hurt my two year old niece never mind a seasoned former inter county hurler. Rubbish.
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 13/12/2021 09:07:03
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Replying To Canuck: "How shameful of you to talk about Waterford county players like this. Okay lets discuss the Waterford county players. Did you see any of the two senior Mahony's involved in any fracas today. They led their two younger siblings and team by example. If you want a hero look at Philip. Two broken legs this year and stared. 36 year former county great Shane Sullivan was not pulling on anyone's hands. Loughmore deserve plaudits for being there today but somehow or other the intent was to bully Ballygunner and it did not work. Noel McGrath might not throw his weight around if it was Austin Gleeson or someone else. Leavey is a young kid starting out. Ref or no ref the McGrath's plotted their own destiny today. Skill won out and if it were a dry sod it would have been a blow out.
You In Limerick like us knows how difficult it was to get to the top at club or county against the elite counties. If Ballygunner are beaten by Kilmallock I hope they win it all. The same way as I will root for Limerick if we can not win. I have never vilified Limerick's player in any situation against us or anyone else and there has been plenty of them. I wonder are ye beginning to smell yereself's a bit ? The likes of Oldtourman on here does not.
I am not a Ballygunner local supporter but they can be proud of where they have come from and we in Waterford are proud of our players. Long ago we gave up blaming others when we don't succeed." Canuck and Oldmantour, you are two of the finest posters that I read on here. I'm far away from it all, but always stay close;,mind not miles.
I do believe that the referee from Ballylanders got some calls wrong; Noel McGrath did not deserve that sending off. Noel is clean as ever that hurled, without a dirty stroke in his body. We know that. The world knows that. To me, it was a wrong call from Murphy.
HOWEVER, where do we get refs if we don't have the likes of Johnny Murphy? Johnny's father, Shem (RIP-great Gael) reffed games back in the 80's and 90's, almost until the day he died. Shem made great, good, bad and controversial decisions during his 30-year or so time span.
But trust me, as I often spoke to Shem and even often tried to draw him out, Shem reffed out of his love for the game. I do believe that Johnny is cut from the same cloth.
"Doctors differ, and patients did."
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1923 - 13/12/2021 09:24:16
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Replying To foreveryoung: "Canuck and Oldmantour, you are two of the finest posters that I read on here. I'm far away from it all, but always stay close;,mind not miles.
I do believe that the referee from Ballylanders got some calls wrong; Noel McGrath did not deserve that sending off. Noel is clean as ever that hurled, without a dirty stroke in his body. We know that. The world knows that. To me, it was a wrong call from Murphy.
HOWEVER, where do we get refs if we don't have the likes of Johnny Murphy? Johnny's father, Shem (RIP-great Gael) reffed games back in the 80's and 90's, almost until the day he died. Shem made great, good, bad and controversial decisions during his 30-year or so time span.
But trust me, as I often spoke to Shem and even often tried to draw him out, Shem reffed out of his love for the game. I do believe that Johnny is cut from the same cloth.
"Doctors differ, and patients did."" Honest assessment. Look we have people on here blaming the ref, the lines man, umpire, two Ballygunner players, Waterford inter county players and Ballygunner for the fact that Loughmore had to play 19 weeks. How about putting some responsibility on the players themselves. Noel McGrath should not have been sent off but neither should a tackle on a player when the play is stopped go unpunished. It is a cheap shot. We had another guy on here tying the two sending offs together. John McGrath was on a yellow and hitting a player on the hand with the stick is at least another yellow if not straight red. O but Coughlan played on. Is he suggesting that no action should be taken except Coughlan's hand was visibly broken there and then and Paddy Leavey should be getting taken off on a stretcher. Coughlan was on a yellow and if he offended again would be off and rightly so, but guess what he didn't.
I have constantly advocated for allowing proper tackles in the game. Noel McGrath made a choice that was an infraction and it went bad for him. John McGrath pulled on a players hand and got what he deserved but suddenly two Ballygunner players are vilified by people from their arm chairs where watching it in the rain and wind in Dungarvan tells a different picture.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2665 - 13/12/2021 18:18:26
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Replying To midlands: "Canuck, you describe as shameful what the Limerick poster said about your county players and then you proceed to cast aspersions on Noel and John McGrath. You rightly praise Philip O'Mahony and describe him as a hero but surely there is no greater example of heroism than Noel McGrath, who came back from a very serious illness to win a host of awards with club and county. And what is the basis for your claim that Loughmore went out to bully Ballygunner? They didn't set out to bully younger teams in the Tipp championship so why would they try it on a seasoned team like Ballygunner? Noel McGrath didn't initiate anything. His shoulder on Leavy was in retaliation for an incident just moments earlier which for some reason the officials chose to ignore. By the way, I would question your conclusion that it would have been "a blow out" on a dry sod. Loughmore have played brilliantly on the lively sod in Semple Stadium and to imply that the heavy sod in Fraher's Field suited them more than Ballygunner simply defies logic." Were you there in Dungarvan and viewing all the proceeding on the pitch or making your analysis from the arm chair ? I have the greatest respect for Noel McGrath and what he has been through. His contribution to hurling is without question and also his club. However you have people coming on here and spouting vitriol towards Barry Coughlan. Are you okay with that ? Funny on one of those was from the county whose player in 2017 beat Coughlan's leg beet red before the ball was thrown in. You know the auld softening up process. We did not come on here complaining and blaming it for losing or going to litigate every stroke in the game yesterday either.
Loughmore were beaten by the better team yesterday and Ballygunner may be beaten by the better team next day.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2665 - 13/12/2021 18:33:57
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Replying To Canuck: "Were you there in Dungarvan and viewing all the proceeding on the pitch or making your analysis from the arm chair ? I have the greatest respect for Noel McGrath and what he has been through. His contribution to hurling is without question and also his club. However you have people coming on here and spouting vitriol towards Barry Coughlan. Are you okay with that ? Funny on one of those was from the county whose player in 2017 beat Coughlan's leg beet red before the ball was thrown in. You know the auld softening up process. We did not come on here complaining and blaming it for losing or going to litigate every stroke in the game yesterday either.
Loughmore were beaten by the better team yesterday and Ballygunner may be beaten by the better team next day." Canuck, I for one didn't cast any aspersions on any player. I didn't mention any Ballygunner player in my posts. I mentioned the officiating, the conditions and the need for TMO. A sending off is a huge event in any game, for both teams, and the officials would need to be very confident that the right decision is being made. If the official, be it the ref, linesman or umpire doesn't have a clear view of the incident then technology should be used.
You say you didn't make an issue of an incident that happened before the start of the 2017 AIF yet you keep referring to it. A lot of us have seen unsavoury incidents before, during and after matches. I have seen a player taken out within 2 meters of an official in an AIF and no action taken.
And there are the so called dark arts. I went to a physio some years ago in Galway, she happened to be the Galway hurlers' physio and she spoke about one of the hurlers who had been in with her after the All-Ireland final. She said to me: "You should have seen the state of that man, he is black and blue all over, you couldn't call that sport".
There is, and has been, a problem with amateurism and violence in the GAA and it hasn't been addressed properly.
baire (Galway) - Posts: 1812 - 14/12/2021 14:24:18
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It really is a pity that the game on Sunday was played on such a poor surface and having been there at a National League game a few tears ago, under such poor lights.
In real terms we do need to have a look at the surface that players have to play on at this time of year, Portlaoise was very soft, Lmerick not much better and Dungarvan was not conducive even for a winter training session.
The game with the biggest controversy was in Dungarvan. Johnny Murphy had to rely on the word of 2 officials, his linesman and his umpires at one end of the pitch.
Johnny has been vilified but he was given information that he believed warranted red cards and in the second sendimg off a second yellow which really was a red card.
It will be interesting to see what his report contains on both counts.
I am told that social media is full of irate messages all relating to these 2 decisions.
Both situations had a huge bearing on the game. There is no doubt about that.
Communication between all officials needs to be very accurate or players will be sent off in the wrong.
Both scenarios give air to the argument for a TMO at pitch side.
The antics of some Balkygunner players, has gotten plenty of air time too, possibly feigning injury, but delaying tactics were also evident in Portlaoise on Sat night too.
The ref is in an invidious position here, as "care" of players is seen as a core responsibility and he may be asked to make judgement on the level of injury. But, there is a definite ploy to stop teams in their tracks with delaying tactics.
There is a difficulty with feigning injury. Sadly that was evident from another Munster county early in last years championship too when definitely 2 and probably 3 Cork players went down holding their heads after discarding their helmets as if they were polaxed when all they got was a tap of the hurl on the helmet.
No doubt the game will live long in the memory, and most notably for the 2 sending offs.
Yes Dessie Huthcinson was on fire and exceptional in the game but sadly, and not just for Tipp people, but the game will not be remembered for its sportsmanship.
I don't think I have ever seen 2 players walk off so disconsolately ever and with such dignity.
carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1821 - 14/12/2021 16:33:26
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Replying To carlowman: "It really is a pity that the game on Sunday was played on such a poor surface and having been there at a National League game a few tears ago, under such poor lights.
In real terms we do need to have a look at the surface that players have to play on at this time of year, Portlaoise was very soft, Lmerick not much better and Dungarvan was not conducive even for a winter training session.
The game with the biggest controversy was in Dungarvan. Johnny Murphy had to rely on the word of 2 officials, his linesman and his umpires at one end of the pitch.
Johnny has been vilified but he was given information that he believed warranted red cards and in the second sendimg off a second yellow which really was a red card.
It will be interesting to see what his report contains on both counts.
I am told that social media is full of irate messages all relating to these 2 decisions.
Both situations had a huge bearing on the game. There is no doubt about that.
Communication between all officials needs to be very accurate or players will be sent off in the wrong.
Both scenarios give air to the argument for a TMO at pitch side.
The antics of some Balkygunner players, has gotten plenty of air time too, possibly feigning injury, but delaying tactics were also evident in Portlaoise on Sat night too.
The ref is in an invidious position here, as "care" of players is seen as a core responsibility and he may be asked to make judgement on the level of injury. But, there is a definite ploy to stop teams in their tracks with delaying tactics.
There is a difficulty with feigning injury. Sadly that was evident from another Munster county early in last years championship too when definitely 2 and probably 3 Cork players went down holding their heads after discarding their helmets as if they were polaxed when all they got was a tap of the hurl on the helmet.
No doubt the game will live long in the memory, and most notably for the 2 sending offs.
Yes Dessie Huthcinson was on fire and exceptional in the game but sadly, and not just for Tipp people, but the game will not be remembered for its sportsmanship.
I don't think I have ever seen 2 players walk off so disconsolately ever and with such dignity." Shortly there will be no one to referee games. Like you said Murphy is being vilified despite the fact he consulted on both occasions. A certain pundit in his county board chairman status needs to refrain from attacking players or referees with his comments .The GAA or his county should have a word with him.
I have said before that no player should be red carded without review. Certainly at this level. I have also said I hate faking injury but this can be subjective. However if the officials are convinced that has occurred, card the player and award the free the other way. The real solution to this is with the player's team by making this a frowned on behaviour.
Paddy Leavey is 11 stone dripping wet and got hit when play was stopped. Noel McGrath did not needed to be sent off but now some believe you can do what you want if it is retaliation. A mistake made by the officiating team not the ref alone. Again John McGrath had a yellow and pulled on Coughlan's hand when play was again stopped and cost his team a chance to come back. Your right he was and should be dejected. Both the mistake and the the legitimate sending off apparently on here is Ballygunner's fault.
You are the only one mentioning Hutchison. Scored five points and was responsible for 2-7 as well as earning a penalty if he had not been dragged down that would have been in the back of the net. That is the biggest story of this game but it is not controversial enough and vilifying two players is easier. It needs to stop.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2665 - 14/12/2021 18:08:20
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Replying To carlowman: "It really is a pity that the game on Sunday was played on such a poor surface and having been there at a National League game a few tears ago, under such poor lights.
In real terms we do need to have a look at the surface that players have to play on at this time of year, Portlaoise was very soft, Lmerick not much better and Dungarvan was not conducive even for a winter training session.
The game with the biggest controversy was in Dungarvan. Johnny Murphy had to rely on the word of 2 officials, his linesman and his umpires at one end of the pitch.
Johnny has been vilified but he was given information that he believed warranted red cards and in the second sendimg off a second yellow which really was a red card.
It will be interesting to see what his report contains on both counts.
I am told that social media is full of irate messages all relating to these 2 decisions.
Both situations had a huge bearing on the game. There is no doubt about that.
Communication between all officials needs to be very accurate or players will be sent off in the wrong.
Both scenarios give air to the argument for a TMO at pitch side.
The antics of some Balkygunner players, has gotten plenty of air time too, possibly feigning injury, but delaying tactics were also evident in Portlaoise on Sat night too.
The ref is in an invidious position here, as "care" of players is seen as a core responsibility and he may be asked to make judgement on the level of injury. But, there is a definite ploy to stop teams in their tracks with delaying tactics.
There is a difficulty with feigning injury. Sadly that was evident from another Munster county early in last years championship too when definitely 2 and probably 3 Cork players went down holding their heads after discarding their helmets as if they were polaxed when all they got was a tap of the hurl on the helmet.
No doubt the game will live long in the memory, and most notably for the 2 sending offs.
Yes Dessie Huthcinson was on fire and exceptional in the game but sadly, and not just for Tipp people, but the game will not be remembered for its sportsmanship.
I don't think I have ever seen 2 players walk off so disconsolately ever and with such dignity." And the 2 McGraths were out on the pitch after the game shaking hands with the Ballygunner lads.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1913 - 14/12/2021 18:31:23
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Replying To Canuck: "Were you there in Dungarvan and viewing all the proceeding on the pitch or making your analysis from the arm chair ? I have the greatest respect for Noel McGrath and what he has been through. His contribution to hurling is without question and also his club. However you have people coming on here and spouting vitriol towards Barry Coughlan. Are you okay with that ? Funny on one of those was from the county whose player in 2017 beat Coughlan's leg beet red before the ball was thrown in. You know the auld softening up process. We did not come on here complaining and blaming it for losing or going to litigate every stroke in the game yesterday either.
Loughmore were beaten by the better team yesterday and Ballygunner may be beaten by the better team next day." What's your take on the allegations of the Ballygunner player allegedly feigning injury to get McGrath sent off?
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1717 - 14/12/2021 19:42:29
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I think in a roundabout sort of way the events of last weekend could work in Ballygunner's favour.
This time last week they would have been heavy favourites for Munster but the circumstances of their game with Loughmore combined with an impressive performance by Killmallock against what must be said was a very disappointing Midleton means there probably slight favourites for the Munster final rather than heavy favourites.
Also the criticism there getting following the weekend could create a siege mentality and they could have a chip on there shoulder to sow it into A,B and C after they said X,Y and Z.
bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 15/12/2021 11:31:32
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Replying To Galway9801: "What's your take on the allegations of the Ballygunner player allegedly feigning injury to get McGrath sent off?" Coughlan is playing the game for a long time, taking his knocks, and given them. He has no history of feigning injury. Given that and witnessing what I saw he was not trying to get anyone sent off. May be he should show his hand but hurling men don't do that. Paddy Leavey is new enough on the scene and if he has that tendency I let you know. He did not send off Noel or pre plan to end up on the ground from a frontal hit off the ball. Neither of the McGraths are dirty players and this does not make them that. In the spur of the moment anyone can make a bad decision but have to live with the consequences. I would guess they are that type of people.
Feigning has creeped in to the game but also I can see through the clouds and smoke people want to call it to off set the behaviour of a player or a ref decision even if some one's leg has been broken indiscriminately.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2665 - 15/12/2021 14:59:17
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Why is hurling and why is football being played at this time of year? The conditions in Dungarvan on Sunday were atrocious. The conditions some weeks ago when the Kerry quarter-finals were played were equally diabolical. It it totally unfair to players to have to compete under these conditions. The game in Dungarvan started at 3.00 and was completed under the lights. Why not a 12.00 start if it had to be played at all? There should be a closed season from the first week in November until the first week in January. GAA officials will argue that schedules cannot be completed in the shortened time frame. I disagree and would argue that any and all schedules can be completed if properly administered.
Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 749 - 15/12/2021 16:34:24
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Replying To Galway9801: "What's your take on the allegations of the Ballygunner player allegedly feigning injury to get McGrath sent off?" Incidentally neither to I think Joe Canning was feigning when he was holding his hand walking off after Conor Gleeson hit him. There was some feigning from others about the extent of his injury during the half time break. Joe returned but if we were to follow some on the comments here because he did, a red card should not apply. Gleeson deserved a red card even if the circumstances were a bit smelly.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2665 - 15/12/2021 16:50:58
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Replying To Gaa Fan: "Why is hurling and why is football being played at this time of year? The conditions in Dungarvan on Sunday were atrocious. The conditions some weeks ago when the Kerry quarter-finals were played were equally diabolical. It it totally unfair to players to have to compete under these conditions. The game in Dungarvan started at 3.00 and was completed under the lights. Why not a 12.00 start if it had to be played at all? There should be a closed season from the first week in November until the first week in January. GAA officials will argue that schedules cannot be completed in the shortened time frame. I disagree and would argue that any and all schedules can be completed if properly administered." Correction to the Post: Should read "first week in February".
Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 749 - 15/12/2021 17:10:07
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Replying To Canuck: "Incidentally neither to I think Joe Canning was feigning when he was holding his hand walking off after Conor Gleeson hit him. There was some feigning from others about the extent of his injury during the half time break. Joe returned but if we were to follow some on the comments here because he did, a red card should not apply. Gleeson deserved a red card even if the circumstances were a bit smelly." To be fair Gleeson would hardly get the benefit of the doubt
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1913 - 15/12/2021 17:34:15
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I'm still waiting for PoolSturgeon to provide examples of feigning injury ruining the game
Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1502 - 15/12/2021 19:36:45
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Replying To Gaa Fan: "Correction to the Post: Should read "first week in February"." Canuck - please stop saying J McGrath "pulled on Coughlan's hand". He flicked the ball out of his hand. I started off the game leaning for Ballygunner but had completely changed by the end as i would expect most neutrals did. Seeing Ballygunner players racing in screaming at the umpires looking for cards can't be defended
dingo (Limerick) - Posts: 23 - 15/12/2021 21:11:17
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Replying To Canuck: "Incidentally neither to I think Joe Canning was feigning when he was holding his hand walking off after Conor Gleeson hit him. There was some feigning from others about the extent of his injury during the half time break. Joe returned but if we were to follow some on the comments here because he did, a red card should not apply. Gleeson deserved a red card even if the circumstances were a bit smelly." Ya to be fair that was a dirty stroke. Derek McGrath certainly didn't cover himself in glory on that night's Sunday game referring to it as a tap.
Anyway back to the present, who's going to win the Munster club final? Ballygunnar will be hard to beat no doubt but Kilmallock looked good against Midleton
Shocs07 (Limerick) - Posts: 372 - 15/12/2021 21:29:26
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