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Hurling All-Stars

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Replying To baire:  "Money alone never wins anything, we all know that. Naturally skilful players won't win 6 All Irelands in a row for a team either unless they get proper coaching, training and backup. Skilful players and the best use of resources combined usually bring success. In the western world money is used to buy or gain resources and facilities e.g top training facilities, top managers, coaches, huge backroom teams of statisticians, nutritionists, psychologists etc etc. There is nothing amateurish about the GAA at inter county level - it's not a level playing field - the onus is on the GAA to ensure that funding be distributed equally and fairly to each county and if it's an amateur game, as claimed, to disqualify professional involvement across the board.
I wouldn't take anything away from either Limerick or Dublin. Limerick have wonderful hurlers and likewise Dublin in the football but don't fool yourself into thinking that their huge dominance at present is solely down to a panel of skilful of players arriving on the scene - the seeds of their success were not sown in the last 10 years - life is never that simple!
Anyway I'm out of here Oldtourman. A happy and healthy Christmas to all in Limerick and in every other county!
Nollaig faoi shéan is faoi mhaise dhaoibh!."
And a Happy Chrismas and New year to you and yours and all in Galway as well.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 3736 - 15/12/2021 16:28:57    2392942

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Replying To baire:  "Money alone never wins anything, we all know that. Naturally skilful players won't win 6 All Irelands in a row for a team either unless they get proper coaching, training and backup. Skilful players and the best use of resources combined usually bring success. In the western world money is used to buy or gain resources and facilities e.g top training facilities, top managers, coaches, huge backroom teams of statisticians, nutritionists, psychologists etc etc. There is nothing amateurish about the GAA at inter county level - it's not a level playing field - the onus is on the GAA to ensure that funding be distributed equally and fairly to each county and if it's an amateur game, as claimed, to disqualify professional involvement across the board.
I wouldn't take anything away from either Limerick or Dublin. Limerick have wonderful hurlers and likewise Dublin in the football but don't fool yourself into thinking that their huge dominance at present is solely down to a panel of skilful of players arriving on the scene - the seeds of their success were not sown in the last 10 years - life is never that simple!
Anyway I'm out of here Oldtourman. A happy and healthy Christmas to all in Limerick and in every other county!
Nollaig faoi shéan is faoi mhaise dhaoibh!."
Baire all the counties in Ireland have good facilities and coaching at this stage. From underage development squads upwards there are nutritionists, physios, etc etc in every county.
If you are saying that money can make good underage players make the step up to being great intercounty adult hurlers I wouldnt say Dublin and Limerick would have any great advantage over any of the other top intercounty counties. They are all able to look after their senior players equally well and if you look at the senior panel expenses most top counties are well able to afford what they spend from their existing sponsorship and fundraising.
If you are saying that because they have more money they are better able to develop more good underage players due to having better more expensive underage facilities, infrastructure and coaching then that argument might make sense on paper. Except for the fact that real life has proven that point wrong. Clare won 3 under 21s in a row which only translated into 1 senior all Ireland. And your own countys underage success has been unrivalled even by Limerick this millenium.
Most of Dublins budget is spent on what could be classed as social schemes rather than elite development. And no amount of money spent in Wexford is going to turn an average hurler into a 6 and a half foot hurler with the skill of Gearoid Hegarty or Kyle Hayes. Nutrition and coaching will only take a man so far. Innate size and skill no money can buy. Happy Christmas to you and yours and see you next year in the Round Robin!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5535 - 15/12/2021 17:49:53    2392958

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Replying To baire:  "Money alone never wins anything, we all know that. Naturally skilful players won't win 6 All Irelands in a row for a team either unless they get proper coaching, training and backup. Skilful players and the best use of resources combined usually bring success. In the western world money is used to buy or gain resources and facilities e.g top training facilities, top managers, coaches, huge backroom teams of statisticians, nutritionists, psychologists etc etc. There is nothing amateurish about the GAA at inter county level - it's not a level playing field - the onus is on the GAA to ensure that funding be distributed equally and fairly to each county and if it's an amateur game, as claimed, to disqualify professional involvement across the board.
I wouldn't take anything away from either Limerick or Dublin. Limerick have wonderful hurlers and likewise Dublin in the football but don't fool yourself into thinking that their huge dominance at present is solely down to a panel of skilful of players arriving on the scene - the seeds of their success were not sown in the last 10 years - life is never that simple!
Anyway I'm out of here Oldtourman. A happy and healthy Christmas to all in Limerick and in every other county!
Nollaig faoi shéan is faoi mhaise dhaoibh!."
Baire all the counties in Ireland have good facilities and coaching at this stage. From underage development squads upwards there are nutritionists, physios, etc etc in every county.
If you are saying that money can make good underage players make the step up to being great intercounty adult hurlers I wouldnt say Dublin and Limerick would have any great advantage over any of the other top intercounty counties. They are all able to look after their senior players equally well and if you look at the senior panel expenses most top counties are well able to afford what they spend from their existing sponsorship and fundraising.
If you are saying that because they have more money they are better able to develop more good underage players due to having better more expensive underage facilities, infrastructure and coaching then that argument might make sense on paper. Except for the fact that real life has proven that point wrong. Clare won 3 under 21s in a row which only translated into 1 senior all Ireland. And your own countys underage success has been unrivalled even by Limerick this millenium.
Most of Dublins budget is spent on what could be classed as social schemes rather than elite development. And no amount of money spent in Wexford is going to turn an average hurler into a 6 and a half foot hurler with the skill of Gearoid Hegarty or Kyle Hayes. Nutrition and coaching will only take a man so far. Innate size and skill no money can buy. Happy Christmas to you and yours and see you next year in the Round Robin!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5535 - 15/12/2021 17:50:32    2392960

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I think Nicky Quaid was unlucky to miss out, paid the price for Limerick's domination of the awards, not his fault, but unlucky all the same.

St.Mologga (Cork) - Posts: 25 - 15/12/2021 22:05:10    2392975

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Replying To St.Mologga:  "I think Nicky Quaid was unlucky to miss out, paid the price for Limerick's domination of the awards, not his fault, but unlucky all the same."
Kilkenny goalkeeper is better! Enough said

Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 947 - 17/12/2021 18:30:14    2393116

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Replying To Viking66:  "Baire all the counties in Ireland have good facilities and coaching at this stage. From underage development squads upwards there are nutritionists, physios, etc etc in every county.
If you are saying that money can make good underage players make the step up to being great intercounty adult hurlers I wouldnt say Dublin and Limerick would have any great advantage over any of the other top intercounty counties. They are all able to look after their senior players equally well and if you look at the senior panel expenses most top counties are well able to afford what they spend from their existing sponsorship and fundraising.
If you are saying that because they have more money they are better able to develop more good underage players due to having better more expensive underage facilities, infrastructure and coaching then that argument might make sense on paper. Except for the fact that real life has proven that point wrong. Clare won 3 under 21s in a row which only translated into 1 senior all Ireland. And your own countys underage success has been unrivalled even by Limerick this millenium.
Most of Dublins budget is spent on what could be classed as social schemes rather than elite development. And no amount of money spent in Wexford is going to turn an average hurler into a 6 and a half foot hurler with the skill of Gearoid Hegarty or Kyle Hayes. Nutrition and coaching will only take a man so far. Innate size and skill no money can buy. Happy Christmas to you and yours and see you next year in the Round Robin!"
Yes indeed, well said. It was never and never will be a level playing field. Examples of this are many. For many years KK have had their own centers of excellence in their great hurling schools and their overall access to most young sportsman in their county. Cork have always about five times the number of young hurlers that the likes of Limerick, Waterford, Wexford or Clare have and down the decades have had an environment where good young hurlers enjoyed a better chance of getting gainful employment, at home, than players from smaller hurling counties. Back in the eighties, Tipp were ahead of the game, in having a brilliant supporters network that allowed them to invest vast amounts in helping players give a bigger commitment to the game. And so the list goes on. As you say however, without players of great natural stature, commitment and talent coming through investment would be futile. This was proved with the three in a row U21 team early this Century, when JP was also involved, but they won nothing.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 3736 - 20/12/2021 09:55:32    2393303

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Yes indeed, well said. It was never and never will be a level playing field. Examples of this are many. For many years KK have had their own centers of excellence in their great hurling schools and their overall access to most young sportsman in their county. Cork have always about five times the number of young hurlers that the likes of Limerick, Waterford, Wexford or Clare have and down the decades have had an environment where good young hurlers enjoyed a better chance of getting gainful employment, at home, than players from smaller hurling counties. Back in the eighties, Tipp were ahead of the game, in having a brilliant supporters network that allowed them to invest vast amounts in helping players give a bigger commitment to the game. And so the list goes on. As you say however, without players of great natural stature, commitment and talent coming through investment would be futile. This was proved with the three in a row U21 team early this Century, when JP was also involved, but they won nothing."
Money can't buy genetically gifted god-given talent. No matter how much money you have you can't make a Joe Canning Henry Shefflin, Seamus Callinan, Cian Lynch etc.
I don't think Limerick spends vast sums more than any other of the top counties. In 2018 when they won the all Ireland there was a survey published about intercounty spending and Limerick were 5th on the list behind Cork, Dublin, Mayo, and Galway. Having the money definitely helps to put things in place, having the proper structures and management in place helps even more, having players with the god-given talent, hurling ability, desire, and athleticism is the most important of all.

Fitzy01 (Limerick) - Posts: 243 - 20/12/2021 12:02:28    2393315

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