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Replying To supersub15: "Whatever you say. - -
Merry Christmas." Ah right I see... best way to end an argument when you have nothing useful to add I guess.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 844 - 21/12/2021 15:55:44
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Replying To Square_B: "Croke Park is under utilised as it is. It's the only stadium in the country with 80k + seats. Nearly half the country live in Dublin. Why in the name of god would any artist want to play anywhere else if they didnt have to? You're obviously aware that any artist doesn't just show up and walk on stage. They're business people as well. Hauling around a set and support staff around Ireland makes no economic sense when the punters will come to you regardless. Whatever you think, the reality is that Peter McKenna is there to maximise commercial income for the GAA... to pay for the white elephant down in Cork and center of excellence up and down the country. Unless of course you'd rather players run round in fields of muck or have poor facilities & resources like our friends over in the FAI?
The residents have had no concerts at Croke Park for the last 3 years and a reduced schedule since Covid hit. They have a nice shiny new community & handball center, a full time liasion officer, first dips at tickets for concerts, other money invested in the community, Garda and stewarding resources for every game & concert. What more do they want? The issues are largely exaggerated by the few... and it is noticeable this time round that they was very little resistance despite all the blathering about the hundreds of objections that would be received against... 86 in the end. The rest were for the concerts (40). No big fanfare like last time. 150 people attended the meeting in September which discussed all this and from reports it was fairly mild compared to the nonsense in 2014. Most of the things that people complained about can be worked through with local community engagement. And anyone who still doesn't like what they see can always move if it's too much. I know lots of peaceful places down West that would suit." the reality is that Peter McKenna is there to maximise commercial income for the GAA
That's his remit as Croke Park Stadium director?
Croke Park is not as under-utilised as other GAA stadia. There are similar capacity venues in Ireland. Music artists have toured to different venues in Ireland despite the inconvenience.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7335 - 21/12/2021 18:18:40
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Replying To Square_B: "Ah right I see... best way to end an argument when you have nothing useful to add I guess." I am terribly sorry, but I thought the arguement was over before it started.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 21/12/2021 19:19:13
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Replying To supersub15: "Whatever you say. - -
Merry Christmas." You are dead right aggression from this poster is unbelievable so best off leaving them to it.
I just hope Santa brings the stetson and the cowboy boots so that they are concert ready otherwise I can just imagine the tantrum on Christmas morning
Liffeylad (Dublin) - Posts: 74 - 21/12/2021 20:19:46
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Replying To Liffeylad: "You are dead right aggression from this poster is unbelievable so best off leaving them to it.
I just hope Santa brings the stetson and the cowboy boots so that they are concert ready otherwise I can just imagine the tantrum on Christmas morning" Absolutely, I thought this forum was for debates, not interrogations with aggression.
Yeah, and they will learn to Yodel the words of Friends in Low places. Amen to that.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 22/12/2021 10:55:26
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Replying To Liffeylad: "You are dead right aggression from this poster is unbelievable so best off leaving them to it.
I just hope Santa brings the stetson and the cowboy boots so that they are concert ready otherwise I can just imagine the tantrum on Christmas morning" Aggression? That's gas... What you really mean is you don't like your viewpoint to be shown for what it is.... complete & utter nonsense.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 844 - 22/12/2021 11:14:08
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Replying To supersub15: "I am terribly sorry, but I thought the arguement was over before it started." You're right as in fairness you can't even string a coherent sentence together and when met with facts shy away.... your arguments are probably best kept for the pub.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 844 - 22/12/2021 11:17:16
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Replying To GreenandRed: "the reality is that Peter McKenna is there to maximise commercial income for the GAA
That's his remit as Croke Park Stadium director?
Croke Park is not as under-utilised as other GAA stadia. There are similar capacity venues in Ireland. Music artists have toured to different venues in Ireland despite the inconvenience." If you want to be pedantic his full title is Stadium & Commercial Director. He's there to maximise commercial income. Croke Park IS underutilised compared to many stadia around the world... a few examples across the water being Anfield... Old Trafford... and so on so forth... Also, please tell me what other stadium in Ireland can hold 80k + ?
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 844 - 22/12/2021 11:30:57
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Replying To bdbuddah: " Replying To supersub15: "Rubbish is rubbish irrespective of what county jersey it's gift wrapped in and lots of it on display here, what makes it so difficult to understand is that between Peter Aiken and Croke Park business sharks slowly but surely are eroding the basic human rights of residences in close proximity to Croke Park stadium however unintentional it may be.
82,000 at an All Ireland final does not emit anywhere near the same noise level that a Rock Concert or any other kind of Concert does, fact. On All Ireland final day at max crowd, the noise level reached is rarely more than from 50% ish of the crowd, the critical db level from my understanding is rarely if ever reached at all.
Someone brought living next to an Airport into the argument, for the record this is about Croke Park noise not Airport noise, however on the subject of Airports, a few years ago as it was getting busier am I correct in saying between 11 pm and 7 am reduced flights was brought in to minimise the interruption and sleeping patterns for all people that was effected by the noise, they called it compromise.
The noise level coming from a music concert using multiple 400 watt amps can go off the scale unless professionally balanced all through the concert, that is my understanding, it's very probable that all 82,000 attending a concert in Croke Park will unleash a noise that would require the noise level monitoring equipment to be recalibrated.
The arrogance of one or two to suggest that if those that don't like it should up sticks and move on, that day is gone, people move because they want to not because they have to, as in provocation. When the last concert was in Croke Park is not the question, rather when the next one will be.
To think that an agreement reached between CP and it's near residents that was rubber stamped and signed off and then was clearly broken, that say's little for our democracy and the planning process.
Some short time ago the objections numbered 1000 ish, the same people gave their names and addresses and contact number as required, perhaps not all but most,
I understand that some of the posters here are no more than WUM and so be it, never the less it's too serious a matter for to be winding people etc.
A couple of pointers known to most, - - The count of concerts has risen from, 3 to 5 to 7 and now 8, is that progress, - no that's extras.
Croke Park should never have been granted permission to rebuild its stadium at a then cost of over 110 million punts in the heart of a high density dwelling area,
Colm Stephens from Clonliffe is the chief spokesperson for the "Registered" Croke Park residence association." I haven't been on this topic for a good while but your gas, you are still posting statements from a group of disgruntled locals as if we should unquestionably assume they speak for the entire local population and as if, just because they have decided they should speak for the local population we have to follow what they say."
To unquestionably assume they speak for the entire local population is all in your mind, while negotiations are ongoing they speak for those that will listen, if you listen and agree with what they suggest then you will support them, if you don't agree then you won't support them, or if you or others don't like what's they are saying, don't listen, as a previous poster smartly said, - move on.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 22/12/2021 15:08:18
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Replying To Square_B: " Replying To GreenandRed: "the reality is that Peter McKenna is there to maximise commercial income for the GAA
That's his remit as Croke Park Stadium director?
Croke Park is not as under-utilised as other GAA stadia. There are similar capacity venues in Ireland. Music artists have toured to different venues in Ireland despite the inconvenience." If you want to be pedantic his full title is Stadium & Commercial Director. He's there to maximise commercial income. Croke Park IS underutilised compared to many stadia around the world... a few examples across the water being Anfield... Old Trafford... and so on so forth... Also, please tell me what other stadium in Ireland can hold 80k + ?"
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7335 - 22/12/2021 15:50:41
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Replying To supersub15: " Replying To bdbuddah: "[quote=supersub15: "Rubbish is rubbish irrespective of what county jersey it's gift wrapped in and lots of it on display here, what makes it so difficult to understand is that between Peter Aiken and Croke Park business sharks slowly but surely are eroding the basic human rights of residences in close proximity to Croke Park stadium however unintentional it may be.
82,000 at an All Ireland final does not emit anywhere near the same noise level that a Rock Concert or any other kind of Concert does, fact. On All Ireland final day at max crowd, the noise level reached is rarely more than from 50% ish of the crowd, the critical db level from my understanding is rarely if ever reached at all.
Someone brought living next to an Airport into the argument, for the record this is about Croke Park noise not Airport noise, however on the subject of Airports, a few years ago as it was getting busier am I correct in saying between 11 pm and 7 am reduced flights was brought in to minimise the interruption and sleeping patterns for all people that was effected by the noise, they called it compromise.
The noise level coming from a music concert using multiple 400 watt amps can go off the scale unless professionally balanced all through the concert, that is my understanding, it's very probable that all 82,000 attending a concert in Croke Park will unleash a noise that would require the noise level monitoring equipment to be recalibrated.
The arrogance of one or two to suggest that if those that don't like it should up sticks and move on, that day is gone, people move because they want to not because they have to, as in provocation. When the last concert was in Croke Park is not the question, rather when the next one will be.
To think that an agreement reached between CP and it's near residents that was rubber stamped and signed off and then was clearly broken, that say's little for our democracy and the planning process.
Some short time ago the objections numbered 1000 ish, the same people gave their names and addresses and contact number as required, perhaps not all but most,
I understand that some of the posters here are no more than WUM and so be it, never the less it's too serious a matter for to be winding people etc.
A couple of pointers known to most, - - The count of concerts has risen from, 3 to 5 to 7 and now 8, is that progress, - no that's extras.
Croke Park should never have been granted permission to rebuild its stadium at a then cost of over 110 million punts in the heart of a high density dwelling area,
Colm Stephens from Clonliffe is the chief spokesperson for the "Registered" Croke Park residence association." I haven't been on this topic for a good while but your gas, you are still posting statements from a group of disgruntled locals as if we should unquestionably assume they speak for the entire local population and as if, just because they have decided they should speak for the local population we have to follow what they say."
To unquestionably assume they speak for the entire local population is all in your mind, while negotiations are ongoing they speak for those that will listen, if you listen and agree with what they suggest then you will support them, if you don't agree then you won't support them, or if you or others don't like what's they are saying, don't listen, as a previous poster smartly said, - move on."]The way you are reduced to copying and pasting a Spun statement from a certain group of locals opposed to these concerts, which you have done more than once, shows that you have been unable to put up much of a decent argument on this.
Your joke in another of your posts saying the people on this topic who see no issue with the concerts know nothing about music (may or may not be true) is irrelevant in this case because (1) you don't need to be a music expert to have an opinion on whether you think it is reasonable for Croke Park to actually use this under utilised stadium more often and (2) going by ticket demand a lot of people who are not music experts clearly really enjoy going to concerts and are willing to pay for tickets.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1335 - 06/01/2022 12:39:23
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bdbuddah (Meath)
Personally I wouldn't criticise or ridicule anyone if they copy and paste snippets of information provided it doesn't devalue the honesty of what's been put in print and I consider myself to be an honest poster.
I think the post that you replied to has reasons that are self-explanatory to show why the residents should be treated with a bit of fair play.
Can I ask you, in your opinion how many dates throughout the year should croke park make available to concert promotors.
Should croke park reconnect with the residents association or go it alone.
Should croke park have a PR team to deal with gaa related public concerns.
Happy New Year mo cara.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 07/01/2022 11:57:33
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Looks like performers like Garth Brooks; Daniel O' Donnell and Jimmy Buckley are the singers that the GAA followers want! Very sad! I wouldn't cross the street to hear any of that country music drivel!
Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 947 - 08/01/2022 20:22:22
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Replying To Rockies: "Looks like performers like Garth Brooks; Daniel O' Donnell and Jimmy Buckley are the singers that the GAA followers want! Very sad! I wouldn't cross the street to hear any of that country music drivel!" As for Garth Brooks, at least you have the choice of listening to his music or not, spare a thought for those that don't have that choice.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 09/01/2022 21:26:02
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supersub15 (Carlow): I just don't think it adds much to a debate when you more than once add the same opinion/ spun statement about from a group opposing the concerts.
Looking at some of the posts on the group's Facebook page and on reports from the residents meeting with Croke park some residents are positive about the extra concerts and some are negative so you could just as easily say the group are opposed to residents opinions as say they represent residents opinions. Some locals posting on the Facebook page were very critical of the group.
I have heard some local politicians in the area supporting the concerts.
I would say the residents are treated fairly, for example planning conditions associated with the concerts in relation to finishing times are fairly strict compared to other venues. Also relative to other similar stadiums Croke Park is relatively lightly used.
From reading reports Croke park have changed conditions on the ground for when the stadium is used, the development in which the Handball hall was developed also included redeveloping that street so as to direct spectators going to the Cusack stand away from the narrow streets we used to have to go by.
There is 365 days in the year, I don't see anything wrong with 7 concerts in a year.
I think it's difficult for Croke park to deal with this group, it in the nature of groups like this is that those most interested in complaining will join/ lead a group like this while most residents probably don't focus on the issue too much as they are just getting on with their day to day lives.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1335 - 09/01/2022 21:56:52
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Replying To bdbuddah: "supersub15 (Carlow): I just don't think it adds much to a debate when you more than once add the same opinion/ spun statement about from a group opposing the concerts.
Looking at some of the posts on the group's Facebook page and on reports from the residents meeting with Croke park some residents are positive about the extra concerts and some are negative so you could just as easily say the group are opposed to residents opinions as say they represent residents opinions. Some locals posting on the Facebook page were very critical of the group.
I have heard some local politicians in the area supporting the concerts.
I would say the residents are treated fairly, for example planning conditions associated with the concerts in relation to finishing times are fairly strict compared to other venues. Also relative to other similar stadiums Croke Park is relatively lightly used.
From reading reports Croke park have changed conditions on the ground for when the stadium is used, the development in which the Handball hall was developed also included redeveloping that street so as to direct spectators going to the Cusack stand away from the narrow streets we used to have to go by.
There is 365 days in the year, I don't see anything wrong with 7 concerts in a year.
I think it's difficult for Croke park to deal with this group, it in the nature of groups like this is that those most interested in complaining will join/ lead a group like this while most residents probably don't focus on the issue too much as they are just getting on with their day to day lives." bdbuddah (Meath)
Your post is self-explanatory, well put together and I'll buy into almost all of it, although It's probably going to be a difficult challenge to oversee but not impossible.
7 concerts it is, however if Bruce Springsteen gets the go ahead it's now 8 and so be it. My only major concern would be should CP want to increase the number of concerts as they see fit year / year especially if they are a huge success, we won't invite trouble so we'll park that concern as it may not happen.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 10/01/2022 11:13:23
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