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Dublin SFC Final

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Replying To Kerry15:  "How did Pat Spillane do?"
Just watched it now and he was grand, he's lively.

It was a poor game compared to what I saw in Tralee today.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 13941 - 21/11/2021 20:23:05    2390227

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Replying To Kerry15:  "How did Pat Spillane do?"
I watched him in the semi and he was great, MOM by far.

Today I think the game passed him by, especially when it got white hot, doesn't seem like a midfielder to me, he's full of running, decent pace, shows for the off load, but doesn't have the vision, tenacity to stamp his mark on the game in the balance, nor the fielding for me. He's more of a half forward to me and think he would struggle to make a Kerry squad in that spot.

The Semi was against Lucan Sarsfield who I think would forgive for saying they are punching above their level competing in a SFC semi. Today he was up against some Dublin SFC and occasional Dublin league panel midfielders, he was ok, but they got the better of him in the main especially when the game was in the melting pot. Jude's system and team can be very forgiving, they are very well coached everyone is given a liner job and role. Jude's have always struggled with balance and transition from defence to attack, he's used for transition he has could ball carrying in pocession, though not great in the engine room. He was fine but didn't really stand out at this level, though the SFC in a pretty high standard to be fair to him. He's some specimen and really athelehic, like his old man, even runs like him, but more of a half forward than a midfielder for me.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4188 - 21/11/2021 20:30:02    2390228

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Just watched it now and he was grand, he's lively.

It was a poor game compared to what I saw in Tralee today."
Be honest. You were hoping Judes would win so that you could crow about all the Kerry lads winning a Dublin county.

Well, I'm reminded of what Lar Foley said to one of a team of non Dubs who were playing Vinnies back in the day:

"You won't be winning our (bleep) championship."

I don't think a lot of people realise how much packing teams is resented in Dublin. In the old days there was the distinction between "parish teams" and teams like Faughs, Commercials, Civil Service, Erin's Hope, UCD, Garda, Army Metro etc who only had mostly one senior adult team in either code. Often full of inter county players playing against teams that had players who had come up through the grades.

It wasn't an anti country thing, There were country fellas who played with the club based in the part of the county they lived. Darragh O'Connell from Kerry with Cuala is a good example of this as he is local teacher.

No one resents that but when a club basically sets aside lads who have played with them all their lives for 7/8/9 country lads with no connection whatsoever to the club or area just to win a county it is greatly disliked.

Crokes are certainly by no means the most popular club in the county but I'd say most of us were shouting for them today!

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 362 - 21/11/2021 20:44:43    2390234

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Just watched it now and he was grand, he's lively.

It was a poor game compared to what I saw in Tralee today."
Yea. But no worse than last night's kerry semi.

anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 240 - 21/11/2021 21:08:18    2390237

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Be honest. You were hoping Judes would win so that you could crow about all the Kerry lads winning a Dublin county.

Well, I'm reminded of what Lar Foley said to one of a team of non Dubs who were playing Vinnies back in the day:

"You won't be winning our (bleep) championship."

I don't think a lot of people realise how much packing teams is resented in Dublin. In the old days there was the distinction between "parish teams" and teams like Faughs, Commercials, Civil Service, Erin's Hope, UCD, Garda, Army Metro etc who only had mostly one senior adult team in either code. Often full of inter county players playing against teams that had players who had come up through the grades.

It wasn't an anti country thing, There were country fellas who played with the club based in the part of the county they lived. Darragh O'Connell from Kerry with Cuala is a good example of this as he is local teacher.

No one resents that but when a club basically sets aside lads who have played with them all their lives for 7/8/9 country lads with no connection whatsoever to the club or area just to win a county it is greatly disliked.

Crokes are certainly by no means the most popular club in the county but I'd say most of us were shouting for them today!"
There is quite a bitter narrative developing in some quarters about Judes by people unable to see beyond the headlines. Unlike many high profile clubs in Dublin Judes have never paid a player to transfer to them. When the club was founded, just over forty years ago, most of the founding members were from the country. Without country lads the club wouldn't exist in the first place.
Judes have always welcomed lads from the country and treated them as equals. When Spillane joined last year there was no queue of clubs looking for a lad who had been a sub on a junior championship winning team. He spent last year with the inters and started his first senior game three games into the campaign. He has maximised his ability with Judes.
Despite what some people would like to think Dublin GAA owe country folk a huge debt of gratitude. Cumann na mBunscol in Dublin has been dominated by country teachers over the years. Many high profile Dublin players have had country parent.
It is sad to see the nastiness from some quarters towards a very good club. Nine semi finals in ten years reflects a club punching well above their weight. No wonder lads see them as an attractive club to join.

themaddog (Wicklow) - Posts: 92 - 21/11/2021 21:17:50    2390239

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Replying To themaddog:  "There is quite a bitter narrative developing in some quarters about Judes by people unable to see beyond the headlines. Unlike many high profile clubs in Dublin Judes have never paid a player to transfer to them. When the club was founded, just over forty years ago, most of the founding members were from the country. Without country lads the club wouldn't exist in the first place.
Judes have always welcomed lads from the country and treated them as equals. When Spillane joined last year there was no queue of clubs looking for a lad who had been a sub on a junior championship winning team. He spent last year with the inters and started his first senior game three games into the campaign. He has maximised his ability with Judes.
Despite what some people would like to think Dublin GAA owe country folk a huge debt of gratitude. Cumann na mBunscol in Dublin has been dominated by country teachers over the years. Many high profile Dublin players have had country parent.
It is sad to see the nastiness from some quarters towards a very good club. Nine semi finals in ten years reflects a club punching well above their weight. No wonder lads see them as an attractive club to join."
My grandfather was from Tipperary and played for Dublin so there's no ignorance on my part. He would have felt exactly the same after people like himself helped to establish genuine local parish teams with juvenile sections.

I know the history of Judes and have mentioned the great work they have done. Indeed their own history proves exactly the point about clubs like the one they split from which was then solely interested in winning the Dublin SHC.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 362 - 21/11/2021 21:43:10    2390241

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Replying To themaddog:  "There is quite a bitter narrative developing in some quarters about Judes by people unable to see beyond the headlines. Unlike many high profile clubs in Dublin Judes have never paid a player to transfer to them. When the club was founded, just over forty years ago, most of the founding members were from the country. Without country lads the club wouldn't exist in the first place.
Judes have always welcomed lads from the country and treated them as equals. When Spillane joined last year there was no queue of clubs looking for a lad who had been a sub on a junior championship winning team. He spent last year with the inters and started his first senior game three games into the campaign. He has maximised his ability with Judes.
Despite what some people would like to think Dublin GAA owe country folk a huge debt of gratitude. Cumann na mBunscol in Dublin has been dominated by country teachers over the years. Many high profile Dublin players have had country parent.
It is sad to see the nastiness from some quarters towards a very good club. Nine semi finals in ten years reflects a club punching well above their weight. No wonder lads see them as an attractive club to join."
All very true, Dublin always has and still is a county that welcomes migrants from other counties and nationally these days it's part of the fabric of the county. It can bring benefits but also difficulties other counties dont have.

1) People often complain about Dublin games development money but don't take into account inward migration, their children etc who rock up down the club and need to be nurtured, a lot of development goes into that and it's an issue other counties dont have to the same scale.

2) Land inward migration, sees the cost of land in Dublin prohibitive to clubs, new clubs can't develop, buy playing pitches, because the demand of people wanting to live in Dublin makes costs of operating the GAA Dublin far more expensive then anywhere else.

3) Thirdly an accusation thrown at Dublin is funds going toward coaching at club level, facilities and home advantage, there were four Kerry lads and lads from other counties on the pitch today, benefiting from all of the above, in a days time we all know there will be certain posters hypocirtally complaining about that despite their fellow county men benefiting from the things they are trying complaining about.

So inward migration has its benefits and cursed but as I say it's always been part of Dublin and we've a cosmopolitan dynamic history.

Certainly for me it's not about being from the country or Dublin, I wouldn't have minded seeing Macker winning a county medal, but also ultimately I was glad Crokes won, Barney is right in the sense you want lads from the parish doing it for the club, it's the ethos of the GAA after all, I don't think any GAA supporter in any county would be happy, not seeing lads who've committed to the club for decades not get a game, for lads who've just been procured. Na Fianna and a few others were at it a few years ago to. No where in the country would be any different. Jude's isn't a small time operation, lacking for players, there are 1000s of kids down there over a weekend and their facilities are state of the art, I was in their new media centre a while ago - incredible! They've done great work developing the club, in a way it makes it sadder with ringers. Always thought if they and Faughs joined forces they would be an incredible club.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4188 - 21/11/2021 21:45:38    2390242

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "My grandfather was from Tipperary and played for Dublin so there's no ignorance on my part. He would have felt exactly the same after people like himself helped to establish genuine local parish teams with juvenile sections.

I know the history of Judes and have mentioned the great work they have done. Indeed their own history proves exactly the point about clubs like the one they split from which was then solely interested in winning the Dublin SHC."
So much for you knowing their history. Judes didn't split from anyone. lol
When you don't know what you are talking about it's best to say nothing.

themaddog (Wicklow) - Posts: 92 - 21/11/2021 21:57:51    2390245

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "My grandfather was from Tipperary and played for Dublin so there's no ignorance on my part. He would have felt exactly the same after people like himself helped to establish genuine local parish teams with juvenile sections.

I know the history of Judes and have mentioned the great work they have done. Indeed their own history proves exactly the point about clubs like the one they split from which was then solely interested in winning the Dublin SHC."
I think the wicklow poster is being more than a little naive and generalistic here.

When there are 6 or 7 IMPORTS into a club, it is clearly a pre-planned policy.

As with the other Dublin clubs who have done something similar - it definitely does not sit well.

Nothing got to do with a country player playing for a Dublin club - but that many in 1 club.????

Some would suggest that questions need to be asked.

Anyway, like many others - I am delighted they lost yesterday solely for this reason alone.

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3402 - 22/11/2021 08:50:26    2390252

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The main reason for founding Judes was that Faughs would not set up a juvenile section. Correct? Perhaps split is too strong a term.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 362 - 22/11/2021 08:51:09    2390253

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Replying To anotheralias:  "Yea. But no worse than last night's kerry semi."
I might be biased but I thought it was a little bit worse than the Stacks v Brendans game, Stacks and Brendans went in 3 points a piece at half time where judes and kilmacud was 1:01 to a 0:01 at half time, Stacks and Brendans took us all the way to penalties whereas kilmacud did little for 45 minutes and only took over in the Last 15 mins when judes ran out of steam.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 13941 - 22/11/2021 11:01:36    2390279

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Be honest. You were hoping Judes would win so that you could crow about all the Kerry lads winning a Dublin county.

Well, I'm reminded of what Lar Foley said to one of a team of non Dubs who were playing Vinnies back in the day:

"You won't be winning our (bleep) championship."

I don't think a lot of people realise how much packing teams is resented in Dublin. In the old days there was the distinction between "parish teams" and teams like Faughs, Commercials, Civil Service, Erin's Hope, UCD, Garda, Army Metro etc who only had mostly one senior adult team in either code. Often full of inter county players playing against teams that had players who had come up through the grades.

It wasn't an anti country thing, There were country fellas who played with the club based in the part of the county they lived. Darragh O'Connell from Kerry with Cuala is a good example of this as he is local teacher.

No one resents that but when a club basically sets aside lads who have played with them all their lives for 7/8/9 country lads with no connection whatsoever to the club or area just to win a county it is greatly disliked.

Crokes are certainly by no means the most popular club in the county but I'd say most of us were shouting for them today!"
Sure plenty of Kerry lads have won dublin titles, and going by the standard of the game yesterday winning it wouldn't have been anything to be crowing about.

It does sound like a lot of ye are anti country folk, and yer sounding like the brexit crowd across the water from ye,

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 13941 - 22/11/2021 11:11:59    2390282

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "The main reason for founding Judes was that Faughs would not set up a juvenile section. Correct? Perhaps split is too strong a term."
No. There was absolutely no connection between the foundation of Judes and Faughs. It is purely coincidental that Faughs moved to Tymon. They used to be based in the Park.

themaddog (Wicklow) - Posts: 92 - 22/11/2021 11:23:33    2390283

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Replying To Fionn:  "I think the wicklow poster is being more than a little naive and generalistic here.

When there are 6 or 7 IMPORTS into a club, it is clearly a pre-planned policy.

As with the other Dublin clubs who have done something similar - it definitely does not sit well.

Nothing got to do with a country player playing for a Dublin club - but that many in 1 club.????

Some would suggest that questions need to be asked.

Anyway, like many others - I am delighted they lost yesterday solely for this reason alone."
A pre planned policy!!
Judes must have some scouting system. McGuire was a junior player in Kerry. Coakley played junior in Cork. Spillane was a sub for Templenoe. Sweeney is the only inter county player and he has played in Division 4 for most of his career. If a junior footballer turns up in a club are they meant to tell them to go away , they are not wanted? While they may not have come up through the ranks Judes have developed these players to a very high level through excellent coaching and good structures.
In the eyes of some posters clubs who had much more "interesting" transfers over the years are now the good guys.
Some of the vitriol directed towards Judes is verging on xenophobia.
As I said previously without the country influence Dublin GAA would be in a very different place.

themaddog (Wicklow) - Posts: 92 - 22/11/2021 11:33:35    2390285

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Replying To themaddog:  "No. There was absolutely no connection between the foundation of Judes and Faughs. It is purely coincidental that Faughs moved to Tymon. They used to be based in the Park."
I knew one of the main people who set up Judes. He played with my uncles. Was never a member of Faughs but moved to area and would have been happy to have supported them had they been interested in forming a juvenile section for a new young area which Judes to their eternal credit tapped into.

Faughs only followed them much later when they realised that an adult only club of mostly country lads was no longer viable. Is that not true, and did not people leave Faughs for Judes? It's history now. Faughs are also brilliant club, no doubt and a fantastic history.

As for being anti country kingdom chaps, 3 of my grandparents were non Dubs. My Tipp grandad hurled for Dublin. Nothing whatsoever to do with disliking country lads. Played with many myself.

As Fionn said, there's a difference between clubs reacting to natural "migration" and tearing the bottom out of it by recruiting as he said half a team of former top class club and county lads!

The ref yesterday was from a club whose proud standing and even community basis was severely dented by their unsuccessful attempt to win a Dublin championship that way.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 362 - 22/11/2021 12:01:54    2390293

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Replying To themaddog:  "A pre planned policy!!
Judes must have some scouting system. McGuire was a junior player in Kerry. Coakley played junior in Cork. Spillane was a sub for Templenoe. Sweeney is the only inter county player and he has played in Division 4 for most of his career. If a junior footballer turns up in a club are they meant to tell them to go away , they are not wanted? While they may not have come up through the ranks Judes have developed these players to a very high level through excellent coaching and good structures.
In the eyes of some posters clubs who had much more "interesting" transfers over the years are now the good guys.
Some of the vitriol directed towards Judes is verging on xenophobia.
As I said previously without the country influence Dublin GAA would be in a very different place."
Oh stop....! Losing the run of yourself using such words....

Everyone acknowledges the good country influence in Dublin GAA, but 6/7 Imports into 1 team is more than a bit OTT.

Dont make it into a anti country thing - it is the Import of players is the issue.
Could be 1 Dublin club Importing 6/7 Dubs from another club/s - same type of thing.

Players coming through the ranks missing out due to some kind of transfer policy/plan

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3402 - 22/11/2021 12:19:53    2390300

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "I knew one of the main people who set up Judes. He played with my uncles. Was never a member of Faughs but moved to area and would have been happy to have supported them had they been interested in forming a juvenile section for a new young area which Judes to their eternal credit tapped into.

Faughs only followed them much later when they realised that an adult only club of mostly country lads was no longer viable. Is that not true, and did not people leave Faughs for Judes? It's history now. Faughs are also brilliant club, no doubt and a fantastic history.

As for being anti country kingdom chaps, 3 of my grandparents were non Dubs. My Tipp grandad hurled for Dublin. Nothing whatsoever to do with disliking country lads. Played with many myself.

As Fionn said, there's a difference between clubs reacting to natural "migration" and tearing the bottom out of it by recruiting as he said half a team of former top class club and county lads!

The ref yesterday was from a club whose proud standing and even community basis was severely dented by their unsuccessful attempt to win a Dublin championship that way."
So lads from the country rock up to dublin for work reasons and judes get word that they're handy footballers and go straight in and poach them?

In fairness I know nothing about dublin club football but judging by some of yer reactions on here it looks kinda like country lads wouldn't be made welcome t some clubs, seems like judes are a very forward thinking club more suited to the times we're living in.

Personally I'd rather those Kerry lads were playing at home as they'd all bring something to their clubs, my own club have 2 players playing in the AFL and what a difference they'd have made for us if they were home, we'd quite possibly be getting ready for a county final.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 13941 - 22/11/2021 13:49:40    2390320

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "So lads from the country rock up to dublin for work reasons and judes get word that they're handy footballers and go straight in and poach them?

In fairness I know nothing about dublin club football but judging by some of yer reactions on here it looks kinda like country lads wouldn't be made welcome t some clubs, seems like judes are a very forward thinking club more suited to the times we're living in.

Personally I'd rather those Kerry lads were playing at home as they'd all bring something to their clubs, my own club have 2 players playing in the AFL and what a difference they'd have made for us if they were home, we'd quite possibly be getting ready for a county final."
Dublin is the capital so people gravitate towards there ré college and work and many end up settling there and their kids end up playing for Dublin clubs and possibly county. Most of the Dublin team have parents and grandparents that came up to Dublin in this manner. Also it happens in other counties too with players working and living in big towns and end up transferring to to nearest club ré less travel. I understand its tough on the local lads that lose out but nearly every club in Dublin does it to some degree even inter County swapping. Work colleagues tell me that James Mccarthy should have played for Na Fianna. Déan Rock for Ashbourne. Senan Connell should have played for St Brigids. The biggest problem for me is Parnells who coaxed players in to lokk after them financially. If the "imports" produce offspring"that win all Irelands with Dublin in 20 years I'm sure the supporters won't have a problem then. That's where the Brian Fenton Cian Ó Sullivan Diarmuid Connolly Con Ó Callaghan came from. However I do agree that its hard on the local talent. St Vincent's had Dublin only policy for years but when they stopped competing they changed and won a club all ireland with Kerry and Mayo men blending in with the Dubs.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2788 - 22/11/2021 14:29:11    2390329

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It's nothing to do with country lads playing with clubs where they live or even the odd fella playing with club he might have been introduced to by a work mate.

Your own countyman with Cuala is a good example.

I'd say there's not a club in the county doesn't have country lads on that basis. As only 25% full breed I certainly don't advocate DNA checks!

The worst case scenario was 20 years ago when UCD won three counties in 5 years with not a Dub on any of the teams as far as I can recall. Every one a county minor or 21 mostly from Kilkenny and Wexford. And managed by a chap who had nothing but contempt for Dublin hurling for reasons best known to himself.


It was only when they almost beat the great Ballyhale - possibly unfortunately due to a bad call some would say - that GAA overall saw where Dublin clubs were coming from in relation to putting them out of the SHC.

It would be like Tralee IT entering a team in Kerry full of Tipp and Limerick county players. It no good for any county.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 362 - 22/11/2021 14:45:34    2390333

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I watched most of the games played on the weekend and was highly impressed by the standard of the refereeing in the Dublin final. In my opinion it was the best job I've seen in a number of years.

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 618 - 22/11/2021 15:41:02    2390351

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