National Forum

Westmeath Hurling thread

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Replying To CleanShoulder:  "I like your optimism but I'm not sure it's as simple as that. There's loads of potential in that bunch that you've named, but at the moment that's all it is, potential, and unfortunately we've seen too often how that doesn't always convert to the senior ranks. Some lads will find the step up in standard too much, some lads will shy away from the commitment that will be necessary, some will go travelling, others will concentrate on other commitments such as work etc. If 4 or 5 of those under 20s you've mentioned made it through to be mainstays in a senior team I'd consider that a huge achievement, and it's way too early to be talking about the minors."
Yes true, I was just highlighting what's there at minor and u20 level at present is far stronger than what we've had over the last few years which is promising and needed considering we see that some of the more experienced players are taking time out.

Dheen (Westmeath) - Posts: 971 - 11/12/2023 21:18:43    2516407

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Replying To Dheen:  "Yes true, I was just highlighting what's there at minor and u20 level at present is far stronger than what we've had over the last few years which is promising and needed considering we see that some of the more experienced players are taking time out."
Yes you are right. Young lad from my club is in at U20 training at the moment. 50 players togged last Sunday. Kevin O'Brien and Brendan Murtagh doing the drills. He said training is excellent. This is what we need for next few years.

Greenandgoldie (Westmeath) - Posts: 154 - 12/12/2023 08:34:22    2516422

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Replying To Greenandgoldie:  "Yes you are right. Young lad from my club is in at U20 training at the moment. 50 players togged last Sunday. Kevin O'Brien and Brendan Murtagh doing the drills. He said training is excellent. This is what we need for next few years."
Its great that the 20s are starting out so well but senior management need to ensure that we lose máximum 3 or 4 from last years Squad.Thats their reponsability if not there is something radically wrong.Conor Shaw has been a great servant to the county but he is still only 28.Has he gone abroad?

jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1618 - 13/12/2023 11:55:21    2516593

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Replying To jobber:  "Its great that the 20s are starting out so well but senior management need to ensure that we lose máximum 3 or 4 from last years Squad.Thats their reponsability if not there is something radically wrong.Conor Shaw has been a great servant to the county but he is still only 28.Has he gone abroad?"
We can afford to lose 3 or 4.. if some of the younger players step up. 7/8 is a stretch and could see us struggle.
Anyone have any idea of new faces to the panel? Claret&Blue mentioned seeing new faces and young faces at the training in Collinstown.

Dheen (Westmeath) - Posts: 971 - 13/12/2023 12:40:59    2516597

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Replying To Dheen:  "We can afford to lose 3 or 4.. if some of the younger players step up. 7/8 is a stretch and could see us struggle.
Anyone have any idea of new faces to the panel? Claret&Blue mentioned seeing new faces and young faces at the training in Collinstown."
Agreed but management need to inspire some of these eight or nine to stay on for at least one more year.Derek got a nice send off these guys deserve the same

jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1618 - 13/12/2023 15:42:52    2516628

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Surely players who have given 9-10 years service to the county are entitled to step away and I'm utterly lost as to how this reflects on the senior manager. The 2 Castletown lads who've stepped away are hurling almost 20 years and always expected to be the main men, the 3-4 Raharney lads likewise, Conor Shaw, Conor Bracken and Jack Galvin have stepped away for different reasons, these lads have all given considerable service with the reality being they're never going to play in a Leinster final, easier for players in other counties, Offaly experience a similar turnover of players around the 30 year old mark, it will take 3-4 years for under 20s to step up but that's good experience

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1968 - 14/12/2023 00:02:20    2516685

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Replying To Claretandblue:  "Surely players who have given 9-10 years service to the county are entitled to step away and I'm utterly lost as to how this reflects on the senior manager. The 2 Castletown lads who've stepped away are hurling almost 20 years and always expected to be the main men, the 3-4 Raharney lads likewise, Conor Shaw, Conor Bracken and Jack Galvin have stepped away for different reasons, these lads have all given considerable service with the reality being they're never going to play in a Leinster final, easier for players in other counties, Offaly experience a similar turnover of players around the 30 year old mark, it will take 3-4 years for under 20s to step up but that's good experience"
Tbh the carrot of playing in a final isn't what it used to be either. Plenty of lads from the top 9 counties step away around 30. Senior Intercounty is such an intensive commitment these days anyone who does 10 years of it deserves no criticism.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14240 - 14/12/2023 09:26:12    2516699

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Replying To Claretandblue:  "Surely players who have given 9-10 years service to the county are entitled to step away and I'm utterly lost as to how this reflects on the senior manager. The 2 Castletown lads who've stepped away are hurling almost 20 years and always expected to be the main men, the 3-4 Raharney lads likewise, Conor Shaw, Conor Bracken and Jack Galvin have stepped away for different reasons, these lads have all given considerable service with the reality being they're never going to play in a Leinster final, easier for players in other counties, Offaly experience a similar turnover of players around the 30 year old mark, it will take 3-4 years for under 20s to step up but that's good experience"
I agree with that, especially with the demands of inter county at the moment.. it's very hard to sustain and fair play to them for doing it for as long as they have. I'm sure we will see them back in the Westmeath Jersey within the next couple of years. Its an opportunity for young players now to make the step up, it will be a period of transition and Joe Fortune is the right man to help blood some of the young lads through given his experience with Dublin at u20 level etc.
The fact the u20s have been hitting the ground running putting in hard work with big numbers is promising and that's where our focus needs to be for the next while.
Given the exodus of experienced players, you'd have to expect that 5/6 of those u20s will be getting plenty of game time at senior level this year, but I hope it doesn't hurt the u20s as they have great potential to do well this coming year.
It will be interesting to see the team sheets for the Walsh cup next month.

Dheen (Westmeath) - Posts: 971 - 14/12/2023 09:44:50    2516706

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Replying To Claretandblue:  "Surely players who have given 9-10 years service to the county are entitled to step away and I'm utterly lost as to how this reflects on the senior manager. The 2 Castletown lads who've stepped away are hurling almost 20 years and always expected to be the main men, the 3-4 Raharney lads likewise, Conor Shaw, Conor Bracken and Jack Galvin have stepped away for different reasons, these lads have all given considerable service with the reality being they're never going to play in a Leinster final, easier for players in other counties, Offaly experience a similar turnover of players around the 30 year old mark, it will take 3-4 years for under 20s to step up but that's good experience"
Of course you are right these guys can step away any time they wish but It is a huge blow.I also think It seriously damages our u 20 chances as you cant serve two masters.I dont agree they will be back as all are around the 28-31 mark.Its a pity for them too as they have given such service and winning a Mcdonagh would be a nice way to go out.

jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1618 - 14/12/2023 14:08:37    2516766

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Just to touch on the point of lads playing too much at minor age so that's why it's good they can't play senior.

Not every player is dual, or in college or on the county squad all at the same time. Some lads might not even be doing one of those things. There's plenty more players out there missing out and there only competition will be minor because the 19s/20s isn't a big thing in a lot of clubs due to most those lads playing senior already or if the club has poor numbers it's always hard to enter a team at this age. It's a ridiculous and I don't think these votes are ever done with the right people in the room.

Posters here are happy with an 18 year old going into the county team and want them to be blooded straight away against properly conditioned athletes but against them playing as 17 year olds in a league that clubs don't take serious building up to the championship.

Gaawestmeath (Westmeath) - Posts: 86 - 16/12/2023 19:14:00    2517083

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Replying To Gaawestmeath:  "Just to touch on the point of lads playing too much at minor age so that's why it's good they can't play senior.

Not every player is dual, or in college or on the county squad all at the same time. Some lads might not even be doing one of those things. There's plenty more players out there missing out and there only competition will be minor because the 19s/20s isn't a big thing in a lot of clubs due to most those lads playing senior already or if the club has poor numbers it's always hard to enter a team at this age. It's a ridiculous and I don't think these votes are ever done with the right people in the room.

Posters here are happy with an 18 year old going into the county team and want them to be blooded straight away against properly conditioned athletes but against them playing as 17 year olds in a league that clubs don't take serious building up to the championship."
Who would be the right people in the room in your opinion? Who's recommending an 18 year old for the county team? Why is minor and under 20 not enough games for an 18 year old? He's prob also playing in school.

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1968 - 17/12/2023 01:56:42    2517118

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Replying To Gaawestmeath:  "Just to touch on the point of lads playing too much at minor age so that's why it's good they can't play senior.

Not every player is dual, or in college or on the county squad all at the same time. Some lads might not even be doing one of those things. There's plenty more players out there missing out and there only competition will be minor because the 19s/20s isn't a big thing in a lot of clubs due to most those lads playing senior already or if the club has poor numbers it's always hard to enter a team at this age. It's a ridiculous and I don't think these votes are ever done with the right people in the room.

Posters here are happy with an 18 year old going into the county team and want them to be blooded straight away against properly conditioned athletes but against them playing as 17 year olds in a league that clubs don't take serious building up to the championship."
Finally someone with a bit of cop on. We are been sold all the negatives as the bottom line is the county board don't want a fixtures headache, which, correct me if I'm wrong didn't seem to be the case right up until the ages changed back to U17 in 2019. People talking here as if lads would be training 10 times a day, just not the case. It's a joke that we are now one of the only counties that you can't play until you are 19, the vote was done last year when clubs were vulnerable and had no real discussion about it and now it seems to be that the board is shutting it down for the fear that it might be overturned. Agree that some clubs would look to change fixtures etc but the county board have the power to simply refuse those requests. Madness.

TigerWoods90 (Westmeath) - Posts: 155 - 17/12/2023 08:07:07    2517121

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How were the clubs vulnerable? The issue was discussed at 4 separate county board meetings last year and the vote for decoupling was approx 90%. According to the local papers only Multy, Joseph's and Bunbrosna spoke in favour of changing it.

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1968 - 17/12/2023 09:51:18    2517127

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Replying To TigerWoods90:  "Finally someone with a bit of cop on. We are been sold all the negatives as the bottom line is the county board don't want a fixtures headache, which, correct me if I'm wrong didn't seem to be the case right up until the ages changed back to U17 in 2019. People talking here as if lads would be training 10 times a day, just not the case. It's a joke that we are now one of the only counties that you can't play until you are 19, the vote was done last year when clubs were vulnerable and had no real discussion about it and now it seems to be that the board is shutting it down for the fear that it might be overturned. Agree that some clubs would look to change fixtures etc but the county board have the power to simply refuse those requests. Madness."
Strong vote here in Wexford in favour of minors not playing adult. Was around 2 to 1 in favour at our convention. Various problems to do with midweek minor fixtures, lack of floodlit pitches, lads being away at college, most minors not being physically able for adult, not wanting to make the minor championship inconvenient for the majority of minor players just to suit a few clubs who aren't retaining adult players, etc

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14240 - 17/12/2023 12:49:00    2517144

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Replying To Claretandblue:  "How were the clubs vulnerable? The issue was discussed at 4 separate county board meetings last year and the vote for decoupling was approx 90%. According to the local papers only Multy, Joseph's and Bunbrosna spoke in favour of changing it."
Constant negative talk about how it will impact clubs, players, burnout etc. Absolutely rubbish rule. Pushed through a year ago and no regard for smaller rural clubs who are struggling. Why not give clubs the choice, if they really are worried about the effects it will have then just restrict players to their own grade but others should be allowed use them if they wish.

TigerWoods90 (Westmeath) - Posts: 155 - 17/12/2023 20:21:46    2517230

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Some of the u20s supposedly making a big impression with the seniors in pre season so far.

Dheen (Westmeath) - Posts: 971 - 17/12/2023 21:40:38    2517241

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Replying To TigerWoods90:  "Constant negative talk about how it will impact clubs, players, burnout etc. Absolutely rubbish rule. Pushed through a year ago and no regard for smaller rural clubs who are struggling. Why not give clubs the choice, if they really are worried about the effects it will have then just restrict players to their own grade but others should be allowed use them if they wish."
It wasnt pushed through, the clubs voted for it and to be fair the two biggest hurling clubs and the two biggest football clubs voted to change in 2023 with 18's being able to play adult with parental consent, or Option 3.
The county board wanted option 2 ,which we now have and a mixture of a stacked room and club coaches wanting to win underage titles this year voted not to change in 2023 and in turn also took in Option 2. So we made our bed, lads worrying that if it changed this year they wouldn't have a strong under 14 but of left at 13 ,they'd win. Very short-sighted by all but a few.

Thechick (Westmeath) - Posts: 250 - 18/12/2023 13:20:11    2517295

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How is the room at county board meetings stacked? Clubs select delegates to represent their views so about as democratic as possible. There are 47 clubs at meetings and each club has 2 votes, County board themselves has approx 7-8 votes so that makes just over 100 votes, at last year's meeting the vote was approx 92-10 and at this year's convention three clubs spoke in favour of change. Three out of 47.

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1968 - 18/12/2023 16:16:05    2517321

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The clubs should be represented at anything concerning underage by their coaching officer as they fully grasp the implications of 18 year olds playing too many matches and suffering injuries or burnout. The most capable coaching officers have the best knowledge in these situations.

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1968 - 18/12/2023 16:19:29    2517322

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Any word of managerial appointments?
I presume LLG, Raharney & plunketts remaining the same?
Any news from clonkill or pollard?
Will buddha stay with Castletown?

westmeathgaa11 (Westmeath) - Posts: 299 - 18/12/2023 21:35:36    2517350

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