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Any whispers leaking from the senior football and hurling camps yet ? I'm sure panels are being formed but since the lockdown nobody seems to get around much anymore, so rumours are scarce as a result.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 607 - 03/11/2022 18:59:45    2446397

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Replying To Pat Mustard:  "Arklow and blesiington will dominate underage between them in the years ahead. Already well ahead at the youner ages. Pats and bray barely holding steady. . Rathnew and especially Balto slipping back very badly and same eire Og all in big trouble as well."
Rathnew won a minor and an u15s championship this season in groups filled with combined teams.

Albundy19 (Wicklow) - Posts: 4 - 03/11/2022 19:43:46    2446404

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Replying To Albundy19:  "Rathnew won a minor and an u15s championship this season in groups filled with combined teams."
Im talking younger ages but even that you mention was minor b champ. You would imagine rathnew would be minor an and there was 10 in it but no rathnew and go down all the ages and rathnew are not playing an any grade and struggling more the younger it gets. Same with under15

Pat Mustard (None) - Posts: 364 - 04/11/2022 14:56:07    2446502

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I wouldn't be worrying about Rathnew Pat. If history has taught us anything its that they'll be well able to get their house in order and won't be down for long. Would be more worried about the likes of Pats, Bray and Eire Og who have made big strides in the last 10/15 years , if they are now showing signs of regression rather than growing & strengthening. That won't be good for the county.

Arklow have reaped the rewards of investing in full time coaching back in the early/mid 2000s and were years ahead of other clubs in their forward thinking in this regard. So fair play to them for that. They have really turned GAA from being the poor relation in the town compared to soccer to being really strong.

Hawkeye2 (Wicklow) - Posts: 90 - 04/11/2022 15:08:51    2446503

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Replying To Albundy19:  "Rathnew won a minor and an u15s championship this season in groups filled with combined teams."
I learning the wicklow scene having been here over 10 years and having kids go through juvenile age groups.

Combined teams at juvenile this needs to be looked at. Are we going the Kerry route with district teams, will some of these combined teams end up in men's teams.

The latest addition is timnafigoue I think it's tinahely, coolboy/ sheillegh coolkenna and perhaps someone else. Blessington played them in under 15a final. However this combined team can put out two teams at u15 and u13 so this raises a question do they need combining as they appear to have enough players.. If a club has enough players to fill a team and the other combination can do the same they should be split. I see aughrim got out of hogans this year for minor, which is positive.
Apart from the bigger areas Blessington, baltingalss, bray, wicklow town, arklow, rathnew, greystones there's not to many villages that have there own team I can only see annacurra, aughrim (some years when there strong) roundwood, carnew and kilcoole, not sure if there's anymore. How is this fair on clubs like these small villages to compete, but in fairness to them annacurra and roundwood they compete at A level most years but I understand they they bring up younger players to fulfil this.

I believe this really needs looking at, are clubs combining to make them stronger to win things. My understanding is that clubs combine to make a team as they do not have the numbers but this doesn't seem to be happening. Interested in thoughts.

StrandedinWW (Wicklow) - Posts: 10 - 05/11/2022 10:10:04    2446530

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Replying To StrandedinWW:  "I learning the wicklow scene having been here over 10 years and having kids go through juvenile age groups.

Combined teams at juvenile this needs to be looked at. Are we going the Kerry route with district teams, will some of these combined teams end up in men's teams.

The latest addition is timnafigoue I think it's tinahely, coolboy/ sheillegh coolkenna and perhaps someone else. Blessington played them in under 15a final. However this combined team can put out two teams at u15 and u13 so this raises a question do they need combining as they appear to have enough players.. If a club has enough players to fill a team and the other combination can do the same they should be split. I see aughrim got out of hogans this year for minor, which is positive.
Apart from the bigger areas Blessington, baltingalss, bray, wicklow town, arklow, rathnew, greystones there's not to many villages that have there own team I can only see annacurra, aughrim (some years when there strong) roundwood, carnew and kilcoole, not sure if there's anymore. How is this fair on clubs like these small villages to compete, but in fairness to them annacurra and roundwood they compete at A level most years but I understand they they bring up younger players to fulfil this.

I believe this really needs looking at, are clubs combining to make them stronger to win things. My understanding is that clubs combine to make a team as they do not have the numbers but this doesn't seem to be happening. Interested in thoughts."
I have never been a fan of these combinations unless a club is really struggling for numbers and even then, what's wrong with them playing juvenile for a few years with a neighbouring club. I realise the "purists" in these clubs would be worried that their players might be poached - which may be a genuine concern with a western club or so, but in the main it works. If memory serves many youngsters from Laragh played juvenile with neighbouring An Tochair and reverted to their home clubs when over age football began. But , if a club like say Coolkenno - just to pick one - join forces to get a handful of kids playing, what happens to the other kids who are deemed not good enough for this combined panel. How does this benefit the club going forward ? The days are gone when 4/5 good players can carry a team. I hasten to add that I randomly picked Coolkenno, it could have been any one of a number - before the keyboard warriors jump on me.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 607 - 05/11/2022 10:35:49    2446532

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Replying To Albundy19:  "Rathnew won a minor and an u15s championship this season in groups filled with combined teams."
Rathnew hadn't an u13 team this year. Kept giving walkovers due to 'covid'

clubfan17 (Wicklow) - Posts: 98 - 05/11/2022 17:40:15    2446569

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Replying To StrandedinWW:  "I learning the wicklow scene having been here over 10 years and having kids go through juvenile age groups.

Combined teams at juvenile this needs to be looked at. Are we going the Kerry route with district teams, will some of these combined teams end up in men's teams.

The latest addition is timnafigoue I think it's tinahely, coolboy/ sheillegh coolkenna and perhaps someone else. Blessington played them in under 15a final. However this combined team can put out two teams at u15 and u13 so this raises a question do they need combining as they appear to have enough players.. If a club has enough players to fill a team and the other combination can do the same they should be split. I see aughrim got out of hogans this year for minor, which is positive.
Apart from the bigger areas Blessington, baltingalss, bray, wicklow town, arklow, rathnew, greystones there's not to many villages that have there own team I can only see annacurra, aughrim (some years when there strong) roundwood, carnew and kilcoole, not sure if there's anymore. How is this fair on clubs like these small villages to compete, but in fairness to them annacurra and roundwood they compete at A level most years but I understand they they bring up younger players to fulfil this.

I believe this really needs looking at, are clubs combining to make them stronger to win things. My understanding is that clubs combine to make a team as they do not have the numbers but this doesn't seem to be happening. Interested in thoughts."
I think it's hard to police. The three traditional amalgamated teams in West Wicklow are Dwyers St Nicks and St Kevin's. I genuinely think that Valleymount Donard Kiltegan and these places have been well served by the amalgamations as there was no other obvious avenue to providing football in these areas. All three have been moderately successful winning championships here and there without being overtly dominant because of the fairly moderate playing numbers available to these amalgamations. The problem usually occurs when there is an imbalance with a big town team paired with smaller neighbours for example Baltinglass and Stratford at Saint Joseph's and Blessington Kilbride as St Brigids. The 'big club" lure is always there for better children from the smaller clubs. In terms of Tomnafinogue I'd be interested to know how bick a pick there is. Tinahely is quite a big town on its own. Is the set up more like St Joseps/ Brigids or Dwyers/Kevin's? At the end of the day it all comes down to playing numbers. As you may have guessed I'm from West Wicklow and the population of the areas covered by traditional amalgamations mentioned is sparce and dwarfed by towns like Rathnew Wicklow and Greystones. As someone else said here if its good enough for Kerry....

clubfan17 (Wicklow) - Posts: 98 - 05/11/2022 17:56:41    2446571

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Replying To clubfan17:  "I think it's hard to police. The three traditional amalgamated teams in West Wicklow are Dwyers St Nicks and St Kevin's. I genuinely think that Valleymount Donard Kiltegan and these places have been well served by the amalgamations as there was no other obvious avenue to providing football in these areas. All three have been moderately successful winning championships here and there without being overtly dominant because of the fairly moderate playing numbers available to these amalgamations. The problem usually occurs when there is an imbalance with a big town team paired with smaller neighbours for example Baltinglass and Stratford at Saint Joseph's and Blessington Kilbride as St Brigids. The 'big club" lure is always there for better children from the smaller clubs. In terms of Tomnafinogue I'd be interested to know how bick a pick there is. Tinahely is quite a big town on its own. Is the set up more like St Joseps/ Brigids or Dwyers/Kevin's? At the end of the day it all comes down to playing numbers. As you may have guessed I'm from West Wicklow and the population of the areas covered by traditional amalgamations mentioned is sparce and dwarfed by towns like Rathnew Wicklow and Greystones. As someone else said here if its good enough for Kerry...."
I'm not sure that you have picked up the reference to Kerry correctly. My reading of it was as a question - Are we heading the same as Kerry. Not quite the same as saying" if it's good enough for Kerry ". You do make valid points about some of the combinations though. Some of those in the west are probably correct and have been proven to work well. Mostly these combinations are competitive but not dominant. It's hard to figure why the likes of Balto need an influx of players from other clubs, unless there are no other clubs close by. Even then, if Balto play these kids, some of their own are being left on the sidelines. Is this the correct way forward ? Hardly, in my opinion. I wasn't aware that Blessington were playing other clubs players. Surely Blessington has one of the fastest growing populations in the county. I suppose at the same time, and in fairness to all, without knowing the exact circumstances of these cases, all we can do is offer our general opinions. There may be genuine reasons why this is happening.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 607 - 05/11/2022 18:39:53    2446578

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Replying To Freethinker:  "I'm not sure that you have picked up the reference to Kerry correctly. My reading of it was as a question - Are we heading the same as Kerry. Not quite the same as saying" if it's good enough for Kerry ". You do make valid points about some of the combinations though. Some of those in the west are probably correct and have been proven to work well. Mostly these combinations are competitive but not dominant. It's hard to figure why the likes of Balto need an influx of players from other clubs, unless there are no other clubs close by. Even then, if Balto play these kids, some of their own are being left on the sidelines. Is this the correct way forward ? Hardly, in my opinion. I wasn't aware that Blessington were playing other clubs players. Surely Blessington has one of the fastest growing populations in the county. I suppose at the same time, and in fairness to all, without knowing the exact circumstances of these cases, all we can do is offer our general opinions. There may be genuine reasons why this is happening."
Well maybe then its just me saying 'If it's good enough for Kerry...' In terms of landscape, population and demographics Kerry is probably more like Wicklow than Dublin or even Kildare. You have big populations in Tralee Killarney etc but numerous extremely small junior clubs and dotted around the likes of North Kerry who band together to field teams at underage calling themselves Feale Rangers and so on. East Kerry have won a couple of championships but before that club Austin Stacks and Dr Crokes had their day. No system is perfect but we should be looking to successful counties for inspiration. In Wickow in terms of senior and adult football in general, which in my opinion is ultimately the end game, the underage amalgamations haven't done Blessington Baltinglass Rathnew or St Pats any harm at all.
I don't think Baltinglass or Blessington have any clubs playing with them anymore but a while back it caused a lot of hassle.

clubfan17 (Wicklow) - Posts: 98 - 05/11/2022 21:13:26    2446592

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It's an interesting topic and one that I've thought about a lot over the years. I think that at underage, particularly under 15 and minor we should have group teams for the smaller clubs. Annacuragh and Aughrim have been fortunate to seem to have had a good crop of players all come through at once but I'm sure there's clubs who have 1 or 2 good players who don't have a chance to play at A championship level. I saw a few of these minor championship games this year and it was a really competitive championship, still don't like under 17 for minor though. Very few of those lads are anywhere near the level of physical development to be playing adult football next year. It's a ridiculous situation.

Victorious87 (Wicklow) - Posts: 571 - 06/11/2022 09:22:57    2446601

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It's an interesting topic and one that I've thought about a lot over the years. I think that at underage, particularly under 15 and minor we should have group teams for the smaller clubs. Annacuragh and Aughrim have been fortunate to seem to have had a good crop of players all come through at once but I'm sure there's clubs who have 1 or 2 good players who don't have a chance to play at A championship level. I saw a few of these minor championship games this year and it was a really competitive championship, still don't like under 17 for minor though. Very few of those lads are anywhere near the level of physical development to be playing adult football next year. It's a ridiculous situation.

Victorious87 (Wicklow) - Posts: 571 - 06/11/2022 09:22:57    2446602

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I see that our club reps got a chastening in Leinster yesterday. Laragh were well beaten and Eire Og by a goal. This is the one I would be most disappointed with - although I'm sure the lads are even more so. I had thought that they would at least get to a Leinster final. Let's face it, our club football standard is not near where we think it is or where it should be should be.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 607 - 06/11/2022 11:40:35    2446613

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Replying To Freethinker:  "I see that our club reps got a chastening in Leinster yesterday. Laragh were well beaten and Eire Og by a goal. This is the one I would be most disappointed with - although I'm sure the lads are even more so. I had thought that they would at least get to a Leinster final. Let's face it, our club football standard is not near where we think it is or where it should be should be."
Freethinker: be careful what you say, people will accuse you of being negative and tell you that the picture is not as bleak as you say. The county board are held up as the big issue in the county and in the past they deserved criticism and in some capacity they may be somewhat to blame but it is the clubs in the county that are the big issue. The clubs are not developing players in the right way. This is not to be confused with not putting in the right level of effort. Outside Baltinglass and Rathnew, Wicklow county representatives have made no impact on the provincial championship. Across all grades in recent years the results overall are abject. Until this changes, the county will struggle at national level. The county team is reflective of the club scene.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1701 - 06/11/2022 15:13:22    2446628

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "Freethinker: be careful what you say, people will accuse you of being negative and tell you that the picture is not as bleak as you say. The county board are held up as the big issue in the county and in the past they deserved criticism and in some capacity they may be somewhat to blame but it is the clubs in the county that are the big issue. The clubs are not developing players in the right way. This is not to be confused with not putting in the right level of effort. Outside Baltinglass and Rathnew, Wicklow county representatives have made no impact on the provincial championship. Across all grades in recent years the results overall are abject. Until this changes, the county will struggle at national level. The county team is reflective of the club scene."
Possibly not quite accurate Wicklowsupport. If memory serves Kiltegan back in the day got to a Leinster final and I think that An Tochair, in their only year of winning Miley, brought that great side from Carlow, Eire Og, to a replay in a Leinster final and, again, if memory serves had the winning of the match in the dying seconds of the drawn match. I would have to agree that in recent years we have been nowhere near good enough. When Rathnew were in their heyday they were the team that nobody fancied having to play in Leinster. But even they, in their latter day excursions in Leinster, fell short.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 607 - 06/11/2022 16:18:09    2446640

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Over 120 lads showed up for u13 trials on Friday. Surely we have a panel in that group who are as good as any in the country? There was also 12 coaches from the clubs. Personally I would take the selection process out of their hands but it's a hard one to call...

liam500 (Wicklow) - Posts: 146 - 06/11/2022 17:38:43    2446651

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Possibly not quite accurate Wicklowsupport. If memory serves Kiltegan back in the day got to a Leinster final and I think that An Tochair, in their only year of winning Miley, brought that great side from Carlow, Eire Og, to a replay in a Leinster final and, again, if memory serves had the winning of the match in the dying seconds of the drawn match. I would have to agree that in recent years we have been nowhere near good enough. When Rathnew were in their heyday they were the team that nobody fancied having to play in Leinster. But even they, in their latter day excursions in Leinster, fell short."
Fair point Freethinker but in my defence I am talking about the last 20 years, effectively since Rathnew won their Leinster title in 2021. The trajectory has been declining in those twenty years with an odd first round victory here and there. An Tochar did get to a leinster final in 1995; I was at it and they deserved to win the first day, eventually losing in a replay. It was Tinahely I believe who contested a leinster final in 1984; not sure if Kiltegan ever did. I agree with others that Eire Og is probably the most disappointing result as they are a big club who should be senior in my opinion and they should be able to compete at the latter end of the intermediate championship. I also see that Palatine got hammered today by Portalington which makes Pats comprehensive defeat to Palatine a couple of weeks ago, even more disappointing. I know that there is on-going work being done in Wicklow at underage level and that it will take some time to filter through but I fear that the work may be the wrong kind of development and that clubs are not developing youngsters in a way that equips them to compete against other clubs in Leinster. Results will prove who is right.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1701 - 06/11/2022 19:06:30    2446667

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Replying To liam500:  "Over 120 lads showed up for u13 trials on Friday. Surely we have a panel in that group who are as good as any in the country? There was also 12 coaches from the clubs. Personally I would take the selection process out of their hands but it's a hard one to call..."
I was at the trials and while the huge numbers sound great there were a lot of kids sent there that weren't of county standard at this current time. Small clubs operating in D or E divisions at juvinile did more harm than good by sending 4 or 5 lads; everyone of the correct age who can pull on a pair of boots in some cases essentially. Thats no dissrespect to the young fellas who may be good footballers given time and practice but some of them struggled to solo a ball. Bar 2 or 3 stand out players it will be impossible to pick genuine players out of a massive group like that, whoever picks it.

clubfan17 (Wicklow) - Posts: 98 - 07/11/2022 14:56:48    2446759

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Possibly not quite accurate Wicklowsupport. If memory serves Kiltegan back in the day got to a Leinster final and I think that An Tochair, in their only year of winning Miley, brought that great side from Carlow, Eire Og, to a replay in a Leinster final and, again, if memory serves had the winning of the match in the dying seconds of the drawn match. I would have to agree that in recent years we have been nowhere near good enough. When Rathnew were in their heyday they were the team that nobody fancied having to play in Leinster. But even they, in their latter day excursions in Leinster, fell short."
Sorry for the interruption.
I was rummaging through an auld biscuit tin looking for a particular gaelic football programme when I stumbled across the 1995 A.I.B leinster club semi final double header between
An Tochar v Dunderry and Ballyboden St. Endas v Eire Og.

Those two semi finals couldn't have been more evenly matched,,
An Tochar 1 - 13 Dunderry 1 - 12
Ballybiden St Endas 2 - 06 Eire Og 1 - 10.

The first game in the leinster final finished in a draw, the replay Eire Og won by a point.
Because the An Tochar lineout and subs looks interesting, here it is - - -
(1) Liam Cullen.

(2) Nicholas Nolan. (3) Sean Nolan. (4) Alan Jenkinson (5) Pat Murphy. (6) Philip McGillycuddy (7) Joe Price.

(8) Murt Davis (9) Seamus Nolan.

(10) Ken Power. (11) D. McGilllycuddy (12) Brendan Brady. . (13) Seamus Cullen. (14) Fergal Mulligan. (15) Enda McGillycuddy.

Mentor. D. McGillycuddy. (Manager.)

The subs were made up of, Paul Brady, Noel Brady, David Brady, Gary Mc Gillycuddy, Declan Wolohan, Noel Wolohan, Eddie Davis, Clive Davis. Also Colm Molloy and Brian Power.

The price of the Programme was a whopping 40p. Nov. 19th 1995.

I thought it was worth posting.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2713 - 07/11/2022 17:18:46    2446784

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Replying To supersub15:  "Sorry for the interruption.
I was rummaging through an auld biscuit tin looking for a particular gaelic football programme when I stumbled across the 1995 A.I.B leinster club semi final double header between
An Tochar v Dunderry and Ballyboden St. Endas v Eire Og.

Those two semi finals couldn't have been more evenly matched,,
An Tochar 1 - 13 Dunderry 1 - 12
Ballybiden St Endas 2 - 06 Eire Og 1 - 10.

The first game in the leinster final finished in a draw, the replay Eire Og won by a point.
Because the An Tochar lineout and subs looks interesting, here it is - - -
(1) Liam Cullen.

(2) Nicholas Nolan. (3) Sean Nolan. (4) Alan Jenkinson (5) Pat Murphy. (6) Philip McGillycuddy (7) Joe Price.

(8) Murt Davis (9) Seamus Nolan.

(10) Ken Power. (11) D. McGilllycuddy (12) Brendan Brady. . (13) Seamus Cullen. (14) Fergal Mulligan. (15) Enda McGillycuddy.

Mentor. D. McGillycuddy. (Manager.)

The subs were made up of, Paul Brady, Noel Brady, David Brady, Gary Mc Gillycuddy, Declan Wolohan, Noel Wolohan, Eddie Davis, Clive Davis. Also Colm Molloy and Brian Power.

The price of the Programme was a whopping 40p. Nov. 19th 1995.

I thought it was worth posting.

"
Thanks for posting supersub15. My God, four matches: all very competitive. All the club matches in leinster yesterday were very one-sided: only one was close. As I say I was at both matches between An Tochar and Eire Og. I remember both games had a great atmosphere: small ground in newbridge packed to capacity. I was at the Kildare county final recently and there was absolutely no atmosphere: zero. The other thing that stands out is the programme price - 40p versus 5 euros i paid recently - inflation. It is a cliche but those were the days.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1701 - 07/11/2022 18:34:00    2446794

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