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Wicklow GAA thread

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sorry to butt in lads / i was at the game v westmeath . and for 40 minutes of the game yee played the better football / we showed our experience to get the win . leaving that game i was thinking that wicklow would do well . its hard to know wha has gone wrong since

mickcunningham (Westmeath) - Posts: 1806 - 02/03/2022 15:44:37    2403500

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Without being too longwinded I think the answer to your question above is obvious. We are little more than a joke in the world of Gaelic Games. Whatever our policies or strategies or lack of them are, they have been a disaster for over 100yrs now. This is incontrovertible. I have no gripe whatever with those who have given a lifetime of service at whatever level. I am pointing the finger at one specific level so please don't try that old trick of tarring everyone with the same brush. I have always stated that the clubs are derelict in their duties to growing our games by continually voting in those who, however well intentioned are not and have not been capable of steering us out of the mire. Those brave souls who have stood on gates, prepared grounds etc over the decades have nothing to answer for. If all those who have governed our games within the county over the decades can stand up and hand on heart and say that they have done their best, well, all I can say is that their best is nowhere good enough. Nor has it ever been."
The problem is if some forward thinking person is sent in by their club to be a county board delegate he is accused by those in power of rocking the boat and is not wanted. Things will remain like they have for the last 100 years unless there is a complete overhaul at the top level. One rule that might help is you serve no more than 5 years as an officer of the co board or a delegate .There's some people in Wicklow at co board level who have been there since the 70s and before.

dubarra (Wicklow) - Posts: 541 - 02/03/2022 16:28:09    2403514

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Maybe at last the players have decided that they have had enough. Many of them have had or are experiencing top class managers, coaches and analysts at college so they will be less inclined to put up with the usual half baked system that they have been experiencing in recent years. Maybe this will be the wakeup call that all players and supporters have been yearning for. Maybe it is just that I am the eternal optimist regarding Wicklow football. Maybe I am delusional. Only time will tell. Is it too late to rescue the season. Whoever takes over let us at least see some attacking football for a change

Optimisticobserver (Wicklow) - Posts: 125 - 02/03/2022 22:02:02    2403560

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Good win from the under 20 hurlers las night. A bright spot in a bad week. Does this suggest that there is talent coming through despite what is being suggested?

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1916 - 03/03/2022 09:03:54    2403566

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Without being too longwinded I think the answer to your question above is obvious. We are little more than a joke in the world of Gaelic Games. Whatever our policies or strategies or lack of them are, they have been a disaster for over 100yrs now. This is incontrovertible. I have no gripe whatever with those who have given a lifetime of service at whatever level. I am pointing the finger at one specific level so please don't try that old trick of tarring everyone with the same brush. I have always stated that the clubs are derelict in their duties to growing our games by continually voting in those who, however well intentioned are not and have not been capable of steering us out of the mire. Those brave souls who have stood on gates, prepared grounds etc over the decades have nothing to answer for. If all those who have governed our games within the county over the decades can stand up and hand on heart and say that they have done their best, well, all I can say is that their best is nowhere good enough. Nor has it ever been."
To me it sounds like you're just here to have a moan. You said you were sick of the same policies being repeated year on year, when I asked which policies in particular you've answered with "Whatever our policies are".

You're pointing the finger, get the finger out and go do something, it's really not that hard. It's not like the county board can stop you from going and coaching an underage team in your club, or refereeing, or going on your clubs committee.

I've nothing personal against you but I think your attitude is just typical of lots of people who like to moan when things are bad but never put themselves out to do anything about it.

Victorious87 (Wicklow) - Posts: 597 - 03/03/2022 11:49:43    2403596

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "I can only talk for myself. When i lived in the county, i was active in my club. I no longer live in the county so i am not involved or affilitated with any club. I am not on here whinging but as a supporter i am disillusioned that ten year ago we were progressing in the right direction but instead of building on what Micko started and when left to manage things for ourselves we've blow it. I know that there are people volunteering with the best of initiations but they don't know what they are doing. We all know that GAA is now professional at all levels and there needs to be a professional approach adapted if you want to compete. A lot of people i know who would have supported the county, no longer do so as they're disillusioned. You need strong county teams to pump blood into the association in a county otherwise you lose a lot of people. When i see good people like Kevin O'Brien stopping and i see ex players like Leighton Glynn not involved in any capacity; i ask myself why is this the case. A county like Wicklow needs eveything working to fully capacity to be able to compete - is that happening now? Has it happened for most of our history? My answer would be No. We can turn things around, other counties have done it but the way we are going about it, is never going to be adequate to compete at any level."
Leighton Glynn is the manager of the Wicklow Ladies, Kevin O'Brien has been heavily involved in an underage team and brought them up to under 20s. I don't even know if he went for the senior job so it's not like he's been outcast.

You seem to have some rose-tinted glasses on looking back 10 years ago. The whole problem was that we brought Micko in and neglected all the structures under the senior team, that's why we struggled for so many years afterwards. We now have the GCA and there's definitely a higher standard of player between 18-23 in the county than there was ten years ago.

What does "working to full capacity" mean in real life? It sounds good on a powerpoint but what does that actually mean in terms of underage coaching, games development etc? There's plenty that could be done but you've no suggestions, only vague comments about what's wrong, nothing that's actually insightful or helpful.

Victorious87 (Wicklow) - Posts: 597 - 03/03/2022 11:55:10    2403598

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Who do people want to see take over? Assuming it will only be for this rest of this year I'd say Casey O'Brien and Gary Duffy would be a decent shout. Both have experience managing at an intercounty level in hurling and underage football and did a great job with Pats.

Kevin O'Brien could possibly go in but I think he'd want a proper run at it with a full pre-season. It'll probably be Alan Costello who steps up but he'll have a lot on his plate with the 20s and Tinahely job. Surely he'd step away from Tinahely if he was to take it.

Victorious87 (Wicklow) - Posts: 597 - 03/03/2022 12:26:54    2403611

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Replying To Victorious87:  "Leighton Glynn is the manager of the Wicklow Ladies, Kevin O'Brien has been heavily involved in an underage team and brought them up to under 20s. I don't even know if he went for the senior job so it's not like he's been outcast.

You seem to have some rose-tinted glasses on looking back 10 years ago. The whole problem was that we brought Micko in and neglected all the structures under the senior team, that's why we struggled for so many years afterwards. We now have the GCA and there's definitely a higher standard of player between 18-23 in the county than there was ten years ago.

What does "working to full capacity" mean in real life? It sounds good on a powerpoint but what does that actually mean in terms of underage coaching, games development etc? There's plenty that could be done but you've no suggestions, only vague comments about what's wrong, nothing that's actually insightful or helpful."
You are stretching it a bit suggesting that bringing Micko in has contributed to us failing. It isn't as though we have experienced periods of success at any level throughout our mediocre history. I have made suggestions for improvement throughout this forum. I would focus resources at proper coaching and conditioning not just at clubs but at schools throughout the county. The execution of these areas at club level in what i have seen is way behind what i see locally in Kildare. The aim should be to have school(s) competing at as high a level as possible in Leinster. Kildare have an excellent underage structure which has taken considerable time to establish bit they are bearing fruit. Wicklow can replicate this structure i believe as what is there is no enabling players to be competitive against other counties. This has to change.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1916 - 03/03/2022 12:59:20    2403619

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Replying To Victorious87:  "Who do people want to see take over? Assuming it will only be for this rest of this year I'd say Casey O'Brien and Gary Duffy would be a decent shout. Both have experience managing at an intercounty level in hurling and underage football and did a great job with Pats.

Kevin O'Brien could possibly go in but I think he'd want a proper run at it with a full pre-season. It'll probably be Alan Costello who steps up but he'll have a lot on his plate with the 20s and Tinahely job. Surely he'd step away from Tinahely if he was to take it."
Fair play to anyone who goes for it. It is a big job to take on under normal circumstances from the start of the year but it has such a small chance of any success now I can't see why anyone would go for it. Like if you wanted to manage Wicklow, you would surely look to wait until next season.

I wonder would Davy Burke have any interest in coming back for the rest of the year. His CV looks pretty good after the time he was here, getting us up and keeping us up so he is basically the only person whose reputation could survive an 0/4 for the rest of the year. He knows the players and if he did manage to pull off the great escape or even put up a good show his reputation would be enhanced.

I presume the Kildare job is his no. 1 target but he wasn't chosen when the post was available. I have never heard a reason why he left so maybe there is something in the background. He had a fairly decent run with Maynooth but that is over for the year.

TopDrawer (Wicklow) - Posts: 53 - 03/03/2022 13:05:35    2403622

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Replying To TopDrawer:  "Fair play to anyone who goes for it. It is a big job to take on under normal circumstances from the start of the year but it has such a small chance of any success now I can't see why anyone would go for it. Like if you wanted to manage Wicklow, you would surely look to wait until next season.

I wonder would Davy Burke have any interest in coming back for the rest of the year. His CV looks pretty good after the time he was here, getting us up and keeping us up so he is basically the only person whose reputation could survive an 0/4 for the rest of the year. He knows the players and if he did manage to pull off the great escape or even put up a good show his reputation would be enhanced.

I presume the Kildare job is his no. 1 target but he wasn't chosen when the post was available. I have never heard a reason why he left so maybe there is something in the background. He had a fairly decent run with Maynooth but that is over for the year."
I think he could be back with Sarsfields?

Victorious87 (Wicklow) - Posts: 597 - 03/03/2022 14:02:06    2403643

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First off well done to the u20 hurlers. Is there any chance of Davy Bourke coming back in an interim capacity? He was a very positive influence and the players seems to like playing for him. In the longer term has anyone knowledge who the county board are looking to?

stringfellohawk (Wicklow) - Posts: 124 - 03/03/2022 14:02:12    2403644

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "You are stretching it a bit suggesting that bringing Micko in has contributed to us failing. It isn't as though we have experienced periods of success at any level throughout our mediocre history. I have made suggestions for improvement throughout this forum. I would focus resources at proper coaching and conditioning not just at clubs but at schools throughout the county. The execution of these areas at club level in what i have seen is way behind what i see locally in Kildare. The aim should be to have school(s) competing at as high a level as possible in Leinster. Kildare have an excellent underage structure which has taken considerable time to establish bit they are bearing fruit. Wicklow can replicate this structure i believe as what is there is no enabling players to be competitive against other counties. This has to change."
Everything you say is completely vague and wish-wash to be honest. "Focus resources at club and schools" Ok what does that mean? Does that mean that we tell the county teams that their budget for the year is being halved because we're employing S&C's and coaches to go into clubs instead of taking sessions with development squads and county teams?

It all sounds very easy when you talk about it as if it's a football manager game but I think you don't really understand how things on the ground work. Can you tell me specifically what Kildare are doing differently than Wicklow at underage level?

Victorious87 (Wicklow) - Posts: 597 - 03/03/2022 14:06:13    2403645

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Replying To Victorious87:  "Everything you say is completely vague and wish-wash to be honest. "Focus resources at club and schools" Ok what does that mean? Does that mean that we tell the county teams that their budget for the year is being halved because we're employing S&C's and coaches to go into clubs instead of taking sessions with development squads and county teams?

It all sounds very easy when you talk about it as if it's a football manager game but I think you don't really understand how things on the ground work. Can you tell me specifically what Kildare are doing differently than Wicklow at underage level?"
Very good questions there. What are kildare doing differently to us. I don't honestly think they are doing anything major differently than us. The one thing that we are seriously disadvantaged at is the level of competition our young players are exposed to at secondary school level . The point I am trying to make here is that I don't think the quality of coaching our young players receive is any different to what other counties are giving their players. However the quality of player going in at the younger ages is different . For me in counties where there they are competing at a higher level at schools means they are exposed to different skill level etc.
For me there are only two coaches that would make a difference to our current struggles and they are Kevin O Brien and Paul Garrigan. The players are there so it's about time we got our management act together. Get the proper management in and the players will follow.

roseyinthegarden (Wicklow) - Posts: 109 - 03/03/2022 14:45:53    2403655

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Replying To Victorious87:  "To me it sounds like you're just here to have a moan. You said you were sick of the same policies being repeated year on year, when I asked which policies in particular you've answered with "Whatever our policies are".

You're pointing the finger, get the finger out and go do something, it's really not that hard. It's not like the county board can stop you from going and coaching an underage team in your club, or refereeing, or going on your clubs committee.

I've nothing personal against you but I think your attitude is just typical of lots of people who like to moan when things are bad but never put themselves out to do anything about it."
Victorious 87. My final words to you on this. You are entitled to your opinions as am I. I would never be as dismissive of any other opinions as you are of mine. You are so protective of the county board I can only assume you have a vested interest and good luck to you. Just to add, it would appear from other posts on here that more of them share my views than yours. I would like to think that when you are on this earth as long as I have been that the internal situation in the county will have improved, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1005 - 03/03/2022 16:07:03    2403675

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Replying To roseyinthegarden:  "Very good questions there. What are kildare doing differently to us. I don't honestly think they are doing anything major differently than us. The one thing that we are seriously disadvantaged at is the level of competition our young players are exposed to at secondary school level . The point I am trying to make here is that I don't think the quality of coaching our young players receive is any different to what other counties are giving their players. However the quality of player going in at the younger ages is different . For me in counties where there they are competing at a higher level at schools means they are exposed to different skill level etc.
For me there are only two coaches that would make a difference to our current struggles and they are Kevin O Brien and Paul Garrigan. The players are there so it's about time we got our management act together. Get the proper management in and the players will follow."
Schools are kind of out of control of the county board in fairness, I live in West Wicklow and most young lads go to either Naas CBS, Blessington CC or St Kevin's. CBS has become one of the leading lights of school's football and those lads are training as much as a club team, it's very different in the two other schools from what I can tell.

But it's literally down to the teachers in the school giving up their time and putting a huge effort into GAA in CBS. There's obviously teachers doing that in Blessington and Dunlavin as well but at the end of the day their job is to teach not train. There's been one teacher in Naas CBS who's been a massive part of their success and played senior for Naas for years so there's a link there I suppose.

I think the schools in our major towns on the coast seem not to have much tradition at all in terms of GAA. Both Bray schools are rugby schools.

Victorious87 (Wicklow) - Posts: 597 - 03/03/2022 17:14:47    2403689

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Victorious 87. My final words to you on this. You are entitled to your opinions as am I. I would never be as dismissive of any other opinions as you are of mine. You are so protective of the county board I can only assume you have a vested interest and good luck to you. Just to add, it would appear from other posts on here that more of them share my views than yours. I would like to think that when you are on this earth as long as I have been that the internal situation in the county will have improved, but I wouldn't hold my breath."
Again, I've no issue with you. I'm not coming on to try have a row with people, god knows there's not many to even have a conversation with on the forum anymore.

But you haven't really given any opinions, you can't say which policies in particular you have a problem with. You don't have any actual ideas or solutions, just here to point the finger at the big bad county board.

I've nothing to do with the county board, there are some dinosaurs on it but all I've said is that you can actually do something to improve things but you choose not to. I've no time for people who point out problems and do nothing about them, that's just me. As I said, I still play and I coach and underage team, I do my bit for my club and I love it. Not everyone is in the position to be able to do that which is understandable but I wouldn't have the neck to blame everyone else and point fingers while I sit on the couch and do nothing.

Victorious87 (Wicklow) - Posts: 597 - 03/03/2022 17:28:41    2403691

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Replying To Victorious87:  "Schools are kind of out of control of the county board in fairness, I live in West Wicklow and most young lads go to either Naas CBS, Blessington CC or St Kevin's. CBS has become one of the leading lights of school's football and those lads are training as much as a club team, it's very different in the two other schools from what I can tell.

But it's literally down to the teachers in the school giving up their time and putting a huge effort into GAA in CBS. There's obviously teachers doing that in Blessington and Dunlavin as well but at the end of the day their job is to teach not train. There's been one teacher in Naas CBS who's been a massive part of their success and played senior for Naas for years so there's a link there I suppose.

I think the schools in our major towns on the coast seem not to have much tradition at all in terms of GAA. Both Bray schools are rugby schools."
Sorry I'm not blaming the teachers. I'm bemoaning the fact that we don't have a strong tradition of schools competing at the top level. The point raised was that in Kildare for some reason they are doing things differently at juvenile county level. I think we don't do things that much differently but I was saying maybe due to the fact that we aren't competing at a high schools level that maybe this explained the so called difference in quality of players coming through the ranks. I also think that we have two to three years of high quality young players brought through the ranks. For this reason I pointed out that the only two quality mangers stroke coaches are Paul Garrigan and Kevin O Brien who I think have the respect and expertise to guide these young players.

roseyinthegarden (Wicklow) - Posts: 109 - 03/03/2022 18:57:40    2403700

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Replying To Victorious87:  "Everything you say is completely vague and wish-wash to be honest. "Focus resources at club and schools" Ok what does that mean? Does that mean that we tell the county teams that their budget for the year is being halved because we're employing S&C's and coaches to go into clubs instead of taking sessions with development squads and county teams?

It all sounds very easy when you talk about it as if it's a football manager game but I think you don't really understand how things on the ground work. Can you tell me specifically what Kildare are doing differently than Wicklow at underage level?"
Were you at the game between Naas and Blessington this year? Wicklow club teams were better than their Kildare counterparts back in the 90s and 00s, now there is a massive gulf. I was shocked this year when i went to see club matches in Wicklow. There was no intensity in the game, play was slow and ponderous, ball play was slow, tackling was poor. Some players weren't fit or well conditioned. I don't know who directs coaching in the county but they should be replaced. No school in Wicklow competes at a high level. Maybe you should ask any Blessington player who attend Naas CBS who are in the all ireland A school final what is different. If they were attending a school in Wicklow, what compeition would they be playing in? There seems to be people in Wicklow who think nothing needs to change. Our senior team has won 1 game (against Cavan) in 2021 and so far in 2022, they are heading for division 4 - how will that help young players to develop? Davy Burke is managing Sarsfields.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1916 - 03/03/2022 21:29:41    2403713

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Comparing us to kladare is waste of time. Different planet. That's why they are way ahead of us at every level.

If you want to know why go the the wicklow GAA website and look at the upcoming fixtures. See how many underage matches are down to be played between now and end of next month. None. Nothing. Nothing happening. It's march now and no games for underage.

Next go to kildare GAA website. Prepare to be blown away. Look to the fixtures down for this weekend alone. At underage. Under 13 football alone there is by my quick count 32 under 13 football games on this weekend. Same at under 15 hurling same at other ages.

So where are the kids to do this weekend in wicklow if they want a game. Go the rugby and soccer clubs. That's why Kildare are miles ahead. No structure in place in wicklw or too late starting up. Any surprise then if kids in Kildare are better footballers and hurlers????

Pat Mustard (None) - Posts: 385 - 03/03/2022 21:56:25    2403720

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Replying To Pat Mustard:  "Comparing us to kladare is waste of time. Different planet. That's why they are way ahead of us at every level.

If you want to know why go the the wicklow GAA website and look at the upcoming fixtures. See how many underage matches are down to be played between now and end of next month. None. Nothing. Nothing happening. It's march now and no games for underage.

Next go to kildare GAA website. Prepare to be blown away. Look to the fixtures down for this weekend alone. At underage. Under 13 football alone there is by my quick count 32 under 13 football games on this weekend. Same at under 15 hurling same at other ages.

So where are the kids to do this weekend in wicklow if they want a game. Go the rugby and soccer clubs. That's why Kildare are miles ahead. No structure in place in wicklw or too late starting up. Any surprise then if kids in Kildare are better footballers and hurlers????"
The reason i reference Kildare is that i am familiar with what is going on in Kildare and Wicklow as i see club games in both counties. I am not advocating that Wicklow copy Kildare step for step but there are some things that Wicklow can take and replicate particular at underage which is where Kildare have made the biggest strides. For example, in area of the county where clubs are weak in either code, they have a parish/district team participating at juvenile level and the county board invest in making these area strong. I know there is some of this in Wicklow but are there areas being missed and could participation be increased. Kildare have invested hugely in targeting schools and the quality of coaching going into this area which is why Naas have improved so much. I know they have a big population to cater for but again it is down to organisation and catering for you audience. In relation to your point Pat, is the demand/interest from the grassroot there for more games? If you don't have young people playing the games or don't give young players good habits in the basics then you are not going to master the skills. Good fundamentals practiced regularly becomes automatic but so does bad fundamentals.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1916 - 04/03/2022 10:49:01    2403746

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