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Wicklow GAA thread

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Replying To Mileythedog:  "If what I'm hearing is true with regard to the senior hurling management and what has been said it will be a colossal explosion"
Just a general observation and i am not aiming this observation at any posters or supporters but it seems to me that things might be so far gone in the county that people are more excited by upheavel than progress or how we might improve - am i getting the wrong vibes?

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1910 - 23/02/2022 12:50:08    2402054

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Replying To Hawkeye2:  "I've said it before on this forum that Wicklow have a signifcantly better opportunity of progressing up the ranks in Hurling than we have in Football.

With the correct structure, organization and investment in Hurling there is no reason why we couldn't be competing at the same level as Carlow/Westmeath in that Tier 2 category reasonably quickly, both of whom 20 years ago we'd expect to beat any given day.

Sadly this will never happen under the myopic, nepotistic, County Board structural template that we have steadfastly anchored ourselves to since the foundation of the GAA. Clubs have a part to play, of course, but leadership starts from the top and we have never had anything approaching the level & quality of leadership required in the County to lead us out of the doldrums. In fact, at any point in our history when the potential has arisen for new blood to come in, grab the bull by the horns and drag us forward, the prevailing "powers that be" have circled the wagons and colluded to keep them out.

Our only hope in Wicklow is for the GAA to intervene and take more central control of GAA matters in Wicklow, particularly around Coaching Investment & Structures, Marketing, PR, Funding & Expenditure and take these out of the hands of our county board."
I'm old enough to remember 20 years ago and while Wicklow were better at hurling then they were never as good as Carlow or Westmeath.

I think Carlow lost to Wicklow once in the league but mostly we're at a much higher level.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 23/02/2022 14:47:12    2402084

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "Just a general observation and i am not aiming this observation at any posters or supporters but it seems to me that things might be so far gone in the county that people are more excited by upheavel than progress or how we might improve - am i getting the wrong vibes?"
To be fair the hurling situation has been bubbling under the surface for a while now. I don't think it will end well for anybody unfortunately. However I do think there are some reasons for optimism with the current under 20 football team. It seems that there are a few good footballers on that panel. It would appear that there are some green shoots (famous last words) its a pity that we don't have a double header v Limerick on Sunday...the u20 game is in Annacurra at 5.30 on Saturday for some reason?

stringfellohawk (Wicklow) - Posts: 124 - 23/02/2022 15:28:58    2402092

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Replying To carlovia:  "I'm old enough to remember 20 years ago and while Wicklow were better at hurling then they were never as good as Carlow or Westmeath.

I think Carlow lost to Wicklow once in the league but mostly we're at a much higher level."
Carlovia. You are right in what you say about recent years. In fact hurling had been on the decline much longer than 20yrs in Wicklow. We need to go back to the 1960/70s to the glory days of Wicklow hurling. During the 70s they even spent a year in Div 1. They were regulars in what was then 1b and in those days Kerry, Down, Roscommon, Meath, Westmeath and Carlow found Wicklow hard to beat. They won an All Ireland in Junior and Intermediate in the same year in those years. I'm afraid that there has been mostly a steady decline since then. A few years they might have levelled off, rallied a little, but overall the curve has been downhill. I think that it might be found that some of our top table may have been around even then, which makes its own statement.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 999 - 23/02/2022 16:57:36    2402120

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Carlovia. You are right in what you say about recent years. In fact hurling had been on the decline much longer than 20yrs in Wicklow. We need to go back to the 1960/70s to the glory days of Wicklow hurling. During the 70s they even spent a year in Div 1. They were regulars in what was then 1b and in those days Kerry, Down, Roscommon, Meath, Westmeath and Carlow found Wicklow hard to beat. They won an All Ireland in Junior and Intermediate in the same year in those years. I'm afraid that there has been mostly a steady decline since then. A few years they might have levelled off, rallied a little, but overall the curve has been downhill. I think that it might be found that some of our top table may have been around even then, which makes its own statement."
I can remember Wicklow about ten years ago being in Div 2a and being difficult to beat, particularly if Leighton Glynn was playing.

It's a shame if it's not being worked on in Wicklow as you are surrounded by counties that are strong. Kildare will be in Division 1 within the next decade but the amount of work they put in up in Naas is huge.

Hurling is always worth the effort as it's a much better spectacle than the football.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 23/02/2022 18:19:46    2402132

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Where do ye see this stuff or is it local knowledge? I'm out of the county many's a year and didn't realise the issue was management. I actually thought a lot of the label weakness was to do with the row Bray had over the Dublin league and the junior football league game.

FrankieJoe (Wicklow) - Posts: 71 - 23/02/2022 19:54:33    2402146

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Replying To stringfellohawk:  "To be fair the hurling situation has been bubbling under the surface for a while now. I don't think it will end well for anybody unfortunately. However I do think there are some reasons for optimism with the current under 20 football team. It seems that there are a few good footballers on that panel. It would appear that there are some green shoots (famous last words) its a pity that we don't have a double header v Limerick on Sunday...the u20 game is in Annacurra at 5.30 on Saturday for some reason?"
Presume no pitch would take two matches in a row at the moment with the weather.

TopDrawer (Wicklow) - Posts: 52 - 24/02/2022 09:30:54    2402159

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Thank you Wicklowsupport and Hawkeye for your analysis of where we are and why. I have been banging on about that for a few years now but not so eloquently. It is evident, even on this forum, that some people support the county board and lay the blame on the clubs and their approach to our games. To me, this is bull s..t, if you pardon the language. Change in any organisation be it business, sport or politics has to be driven from the top. Imagine the reaction a company CEO would get at the AGM if he stated that the reason the company wasn't performing was due to the lack of enthusiasm or interest from the workers. That is exactly the theory that is being expounded by certain posters on here and in the county in general. Look, I am nearing the latter stage of my stay on this planet and before I get attacked I was involved at club level and higher in my earlier life, but I wasn't too long seeing how the wind blows at the upper level. The same attitude is, was and always will be until there is a revolt at grassroots level and clubs really get their act together and clear out what passes for governance and then get their houses in order with properly funded coaching and structures which could mean sanction on funding if clubs weren't performing in improving the quality of player and teams they were producing. I will say again that I don't believe that this is a deliberate ploy on anybody's part and that many good people have devoted years of their lives to what they believe to be the best of their ability. But it is glaringly obvious that their best has never been near good enough to take us up from being the joke of the GAA world to where we would be respected. Presently our footballers are the team that nobody wants to be beaten by. Ask anybody in Cavan or Offaly to name a few. Not that any of this will make any difference but, it needs to be said."
What you are saying is absolutely true and the best observation of what's going on in Wicklow Gaa for as long as I can remember and that's not today or yesterday.

dubarra (Wicklow) - Posts: 541 - 26/02/2022 09:20:40    2402426

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Carlovia, you say Wicklow have only beaten Carlow once in the League in hurling. In the 1990s alone I remember more than one victory.

Wicklowman (Wicklow) - Posts: 1138 - 26/02/2022 11:08:14    2402445

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Back to the dungeon for us

stringfellohawk (Wicklow) - Posts: 124 - 26/02/2022 16:47:06    2402506

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Replying To stringfellohawk:  "Back to the dungeon for us"
Shur don't worry, it'll be grand. We will give the manager another year, then engineer some reason or other to have him walk away and we will appoint another "panel" to recommend another chap with a death wish and away we go again. Isn't that the way we always do it, so, at least we will be seen to be trying to get it right.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 999 - 26/02/2022 18:55:01    2402542

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Shur don't worry, it'll be grand. We will give the manager another year, then engineer some reason or other to have him walk away and we will appoint another "panel" to recommend another chap with a death wish and away we go again. Isn't that the way we always do it, so, at least we will be seen to be trying to get it right."
Watching the best players, they always seem composed. It is like time stands still or is in slow motion. On the other hand, average players seem rushed. The lads did well against the wind in the first half and were only five points behind at half time but they threw away chance after chance in the second half when with the aid of the wind they kicked 11 wides. There really is no margin for error now. What is more worrying is that in the last 8 league games which is competing against teams of our own quality; aside from beating cavan in that playoff game, we have lost the rest except that draw with fermanagh who will probably be relegated with ourselves. The powers that be may blame the manager but i didn't see this manager involved with clubs teams earlier this year where the quality of club players was dreadful and that is what he is picking for the county team!!

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1910 - 26/02/2022 20:32:14    2402575

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Today looks to be heading for one of the lowest points in either code in years. 2-08 to 0-03 down at half time to Donegal.

FrankieJoe (Wicklow) - Posts: 71 - 27/02/2022 13:17:26    2402679

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "Watching the best players, they always seem composed. It is like time stands still or is in slow motion. On the other hand, average players seem rushed. The lads did well against the wind in the first half and were only five points behind at half time but they threw away chance after chance in the second half when with the aid of the wind they kicked 11 wides. There really is no margin for error now. What is more worrying is that in the last 8 league games which is competing against teams of our own quality; aside from beating cavan in that playoff game, we have lost the rest except that draw with fermanagh who will probably be relegated with ourselves. The powers that be may blame the manager but i didn't see this manager involved with clubs teams earlier this year where the quality of club players was dreadful and that is what he is picking for the county team!!"
Despite getting used to losing matches I left Aughrim with a feeling of despair and frustration after watching the team heading back to division 4.We cannot hope to win matches if our 6 forwards kick only 3 points over 70 minutes plus. We kick 11 wides in the second half alone. We have no consistent freetaker. We have to rely upon our goalkeeper to kick frees when some of the kicks should be bread and butter to a regular forward.Our basic defending was atrocious with Limerick players able to run off the shoulder at ease. Some players to be brutally honest lacked pace to such a degree and ran back at half pace to offer token resistance that it was embarrassing. It was obvious from early on that many of our players looked flatfooted and tired.
Maybe it comes down to the quality of coaching at club level but we need to sit down and get some coaches to target defensive , attacking and game tactics to address our basic failings. It is hard to know where to begin but the prospects we expected from the green shoots under Kevin O Briens stewardship are starting to wither at this stage. My rant is not to attack players as I realise the commitment involved but there seems to be a total lack of a game plan or direction so the players use up valuable energy chasing shadows rather than working as a collective unit until the whole framework of the team disintegrates.

Optimisticobserver (Wicklow) - Posts: 125 - 27/02/2022 13:23:11    2402682

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Replying To FrankieJoe:  "Today looks to be heading for one of the lowest points in either code in years. 2-08 to 0-03 down at half time to Donegal."
At the moment, for whatever reason, our best hurlers won't line out for the county. Whatever the reason is, it needs sorting. This is nothing short of a disaster. We are hardly at Junior inter county standard anymore. County Board - do the right thing. You know what that is, just do it.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 999 - 27/02/2022 14:25:16    2402691

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Replying To Optimisticobserver:  "Despite getting used to losing matches I left Aughrim with a feeling of despair and frustration after watching the team heading back to division 4.We cannot hope to win matches if our 6 forwards kick only 3 points over 70 minutes plus. We kick 11 wides in the second half alone. We have no consistent freetaker. We have to rely upon our goalkeeper to kick frees when some of the kicks should be bread and butter to a regular forward.Our basic defending was atrocious with Limerick players able to run off the shoulder at ease. Some players to be brutally honest lacked pace to such a degree and ran back at half pace to offer token resistance that it was embarrassing. It was obvious from early on that many of our players looked flatfooted and tired.
Maybe it comes down to the quality of coaching at club level but we need to sit down and get some coaches to target defensive , attacking and game tactics to address our basic failings. It is hard to know where to begin but the prospects we expected from the green shoots under Kevin O Briens stewardship are starting to wither at this stage. My rant is not to attack players as I realise the commitment involved but there seems to be a total lack of a game plan or direction so the players use up valuable energy chasing shadows rather than working as a collective unit until the whole framework of the team disintegrates."
What you have just describe is the same player shortcomings that I saw in the club championship. This is the crazy part of the whole way GAA in the county is - if players aren't capable of basics in terms of basic skills, conditioning, tackling, tactics and spatial awareness at club level then how do people expect them to produce at a high level when they have less time, bigger more athletic opponents. It is just madness, the whole setup is. I'm not going to criticise these players as they are being prepared to fail, simple as. Also if Davy Burke wasn't staying on, why was some one like Kevin O 'Brien not allowed to step up to the senior setup based upon the work he has done with players at minor and u20 level? Is this more politics at a high level? A man of this calibre should be involved at some level in the county setup as he is the best player we have produced and has proven what he is capable of.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1910 - 27/02/2022 14:37:03    2402694

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Replying To Optimisticobserver:  "Despite getting used to losing matches I left Aughrim with a feeling of despair and frustration after watching the team heading back to division 4.We cannot hope to win matches if our 6 forwards kick only 3 points over 70 minutes plus. We kick 11 wides in the second half alone. We have no consistent freetaker. We have to rely upon our goalkeeper to kick frees when some of the kicks should be bread and butter to a regular forward.Our basic defending was atrocious with Limerick players able to run off the shoulder at ease. Some players to be brutally honest lacked pace to such a degree and ran back at half pace to offer token resistance that it was embarrassing. It was obvious from early on that many of our players looked flatfooted and tired.
Maybe it comes down to the quality of coaching at club level but we need to sit down and get some coaches to target defensive , attacking and game tactics to address our basic failings. It is hard to know where to begin but the prospects we expected from the green shoots under Kevin O Briens stewardship are starting to wither at this stage. My rant is not to attack players as I realise the commitment involved but there seems to be a total lack of a game plan or direction so the players use up valuable energy chasing shadows rather than working as a collective unit until the whole framework of the team disintegrates."
The system we play does not suit any scoring forward regardless of ability. We do not get any early ball to our inside forwards worth talking about. We have one or two players who seem to think football is about bringing the ball into contact and trying to beat three or four opponents. How this has not being picked by so called management begs belief. Getting back to our goalkeeper kicking frees, this is again down to management. Players are able to kick frees for their clubs so why not for their county.

roseyinthegarden (Wicklow) - Posts: 109 - 27/02/2022 14:44:21    2402696

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fermanagh , louth had wins today does that still give wicklow a chance staying up mathmatically . wicklow have to win all their remaining leaque games . that would be a miracle we will need to go to knock to pray , The wicklow hurlers are close to nicky rachard standard in my view

lor12 (Wicklow) - Posts: 238 - 27/02/2022 15:43:06    2402711

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Replying To roseyinthegarden:  "The system we play does not suit any scoring forward regardless of ability. We do not get any early ball to our inside forwards worth talking about. We have one or two players who seem to think football is about bringing the ball into contact and trying to beat three or four opponents. How this has not being picked by so called management begs belief. Getting back to our goalkeeper kicking frees, this is again down to management. Players are able to kick frees for their clubs so why not for their county."
I agree. As I've said before we need to avoid bringing the ball into contact as we haven't got the physique to break tackles and we need to use the full width of the pitch but in most cases we insist on carrying the ball down the middle into traffic with the usual turnovers. Our younger players like Darcy and Quinn need the ball in early on a one on one and the use of the diagonal to open up the back line and give the young lads a chance.
Many of our backs don't mark tightly but adopt a poor zonal defence while giving the opposition plenty of room to move the ball. I was amazed how often the Limerick attackers were able to get goalside of our fullback line...a basic error at any level. Very disappointing overall.

Optimisticobserver (Wicklow) - Posts: 125 - 27/02/2022 15:44:04    2402712

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Replying To roseyinthegarden:  "The system we play does not suit any scoring forward regardless of ability. We do not get any early ball to our inside forwards worth talking about. We have one or two players who seem to think football is about bringing the ball into contact and trying to beat three or four opponents. How this has not being picked by so called management begs belief. Getting back to our goalkeeper kicking frees, this is again down to management. Players are able to kick frees for their clubs so why not for their county."
Would we stay in Division 3 with the same squad of players but with a different management team?

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1910 - 27/02/2022 15:47:15    2402715

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