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Donegal GAA thread

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Replying To eddieSize5Balls:  "The Derry game cannot be really compared to this Cork one in my opinion.
First of all, in the Derry game, while it was Derrys mistakes that lead to our goals, it was the same mistake multiple times by the same player. We took advantage and we targeted it clearly from throw in.
We were double digits up and Derry scored a few without reply in garbage time while we waited for the final whistle.
And tbh I think we beat them regardless of these mistakes, they have been terrible so far and could go out to Westmeath next weekend..

In the Cork game, it was individual mistakes for the first two (both were well taken finished too but we should have done better)
And their last goal was comical and very fortunate for them
We clawed our way back to level, had the ball and got turned over very harshly by the ref and that was pretty much it.

I respect Cork but we are miles better and if we played them tomorrow we would win comfortably.
If Paddy buries one of his two first point from play (which he should have), its a different game

I understand thats not exactly the point you are making but considering the teams we beat, and how we hockeyed Cork in the league, i understand some fans calling it a silly loss"
We are not miles better than Cork. U can't compare league and championship form. They targeted the Donegal fixture and had their homework done. Hard to know how consistently good Cork are.. the Tyrone game will be evidence as both will go into it with equal time off. That's the one thing they had on us.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3844 - 06/06/2024 09:18:28    2549805

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Replying To WeGoAgain:  "Good on ya, appreciate that."
About 5 miles outside Castlebar on the N5 coming from Donegal, keep an eye out for signs to the right for a village called Turlough - there is a museum there, you might see signs for museum of country life. The road through Turlough village is the old Dublin road and will bring you right into town - zero traffic.

I always se cars parked way out the N5 - and breeze into town on that road.

Cbar (Mayo) - Posts: 314 - 06/06/2024 09:36:04    2549806

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I don't know if it was a silly loss against cork but the idea that McGuinness was experimenting might have something to it. Maybe someone who was at the game could comment... This round Robin is in some sense a good place for us to change up our gameplan because the style of play that wins ulster will not win an all ireland. I don't know if that was the case in Cork though , I wasn't there and didn't get to listen to it either.

High_and_wide (Donegal) - Posts: 83 - 06/06/2024 09:49:06    2549807

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I don't think we should be talking about winning margins.First of all make sure we win the game and see how the scoring and other results go.If we win we are likely to get a home preliminary Q/F and if we are lucky maybe top the group if Tyrone narrowly beat Cork.Things have slightly turned Cork,s way with their hurlers on as a double header which will give them great support.
A lot of talk about Donegal being tired in Cork but with the fitness levels of teams now it must have been that they wern't mentally tuned in for the game.

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1095 - 06/06/2024 10:39:30    2549810

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Replying To Ryanteam:  "Current round robin competition is a farce. Donegal haven't gained any benefit from winning Ulster, had some battles in the provincials whilst Kerry strolled through Munster. Kerry's historical dominance of the province is reflected in that the 2 Mickos..O' Connell and O' Dwyer as well as Pat Spillane have 12 Munster medals each. Leinster is totally dominated by Dublin, and reflected by Stephen Cluxton's 18 Leinster medals.Cork will take it though, and now have a good chance of topping the group and going directly to quarter finals. Big change from early in the season where a narrow win against Fermanagh kept them out of Tailteann Cup!"
This is the whole point. All the gimmicking around with structures does not alleviate the main problem.

Ulster is super competitive and means the world to the teams, Kerry and Dublin have strolls in the park in competitions they no longer care about and can look to peak at end of season. They have bigger panels and will have games without true jeopardy. There is actually almost zero chance either side could get eliminated in a group of 4 with three teams going through.

Ulster teams batter each other in Ulster and are more likely to have more difficult group games too with this system ergo, more games to trip up, get injured and less time to peak against a Dublin or Kerry. Last season both sides were in second gear and flicked the switch at quarter final stages against sides that had played three weeks on the bounce.

It's a total farce. Yes Dublin and Kerry are the best sides but let's give other teams more of a chance. The best suggestion I have seen for a revamp would be mimic the hurling with two provinces of six teams. 6 in Ulster, 6 in rest of country and follow same path as hurling. It would be far far fairer. Possible harder on southern sides if Kerry, Dublin, Cork, Mayo, Roscommon & Galway were in one group but so what. Give them a taste of a tough route for a change.

If Donegal were to finish second in their group, it's very feasible our route to an All Ireland could be.
Derry, Tyrone, Armagh, Tyrone, Cork, Clare, Derry, Kerry, Galway, Dublin. (10 games-played 8 Div 1 sides)

Kerrys route to an All Ireland could end up being:
Cork, Clare, Monaghan, Meath, Louth, Roscommon, Armagh, Galway (8 games-played 2 Div sides, none to semi final)

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 282 - 06/06/2024 10:56:42    2549812

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Replying To Ryanteam:  "Current round robin competition is a farce. Donegal haven't gained any benefit from winning Ulster, had some battles in the provincials whilst Kerry strolled through Munster. Kerry's historical dominance of the province is reflected in that the 2 Mickos..O' Connell and O' Dwyer as well as Pat Spillane have 12 Munster medals each. Leinster is totally dominated by Dublin, and reflected by Stephen Cluxton's 18 Leinster medals.Cork will take it though, and now have a good chance of topping the group and going directly to quarter finals. Big change from early in the season where a narrow win against Fermanagh kept them out of Tailteann Cup!"
Yeah these group stages are a nonsense really. It should just be the top two through and then knockout.
Better yet, provincial winners go straight to the quarter finals and remaining 12 teams play some sort of playoff to reach quarters.

Packing in some many championship games in a short period of time leads to inevitable injuries. Plus it's very hard on families to keep going to games. It can be an expensive day out.

Lets hope Donegal top the group. Are all quarter finals fixed for Croke Park? That would mean three away trips in a row to Cork, Castlebar and Dublin in the space of a month. Costly enough in these times. Kids are off school and holidays/summer camps come into consideration. I'm not trying to come across as tight or anything, but it might not be sustainable for some.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9352 - 06/06/2024 11:22:46    2549819

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Yeah these group stages are a nonsense really. It should just be the top two through and then knockout.
Better yet, provincial winners go straight to the quarter finals and remaining 12 teams play some sort of playoff to reach quarters.

Packing in some many championship games in a short period of time leads to inevitable injuries. Plus it's very hard on families to keep going to games. It can be an expensive day out.

Lets hope Donegal top the group. Are all quarter finals fixed for Croke Park? That would mean three away trips in a row to Cork, Castlebar and Dublin in the space of a month. Costly enough in these times. Kids are off school and holidays/summer camps come into consideration. I'm not trying to come across as tight or anything, but it might not be sustainable for some."
I don't know what the answer is but the current group system is nonsense, the Ulster Championship is brilliant but it's a disadvantage to Ulster teams going for the All Ireland, just repeating the obvious here.
I think the old backdoor system was better, you get 1 second chance, it was never fair on the losing Provincial finalists though having to play their next game just a week later, that is easy to fix, they should have had a 2 week gap before that game.
Derry have been well beaten 3 times and yet they are still in the Championship, it's a joke.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2896 - 06/06/2024 13:38:44    2549852

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Replying To Cbar:  "About 5 miles outside Castlebar on the N5 coming from Donegal, keep an eye out for signs to the right for a village called Turlough - there is a museum there, you might see signs for museum of country life. The road through Turlough village is the old Dublin road and will bring you right into town - zero traffic.

I always se cars parked way out the N5 - and breeze into town on that road."
Great stuff, sounds like a good option too. Thanks v much.

WeGoAgain (Donegal) - Posts: 51 - 06/06/2024 15:54:35    2549875

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I don't know what the answer is but the current group system is nonsense, the Ulster Championship is brilliant but it's a disadvantage to Ulster teams going for the All Ireland, just repeating the obvious here.
I think the old backdoor system was better, you get 1 second chance, it was never fair on the losing Provincial finalists though having to play their next game just a week later, that is easy to fix, they should have had a 2 week gap before that game.
Derry have been well beaten 3 times and yet they are still in the Championship, it's a joke."
I understand Ulster is a minefield and can overstress teams but it is swings and roundabouts. Ulster teams learn a lot say about emerging players as they move through the Ulster championship while Dublin/Kerry know less about their newbies until knock out, too late? Just because it is continuously being said that Ulster teams are at a disadvantage doesn't mean it's true.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 748 - 06/06/2024 21:51:58    2549920

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Replying To Donegalman:  "We are not miles better than Cork. U can't compare league and championship form. They targeted the Donegal fixture and had their homework done. Hard to know how consistently good Cork are.. the Tyrone game will be evidence as both will go into it with equal time off. That's the one thing they had on us."
If you ignore last year, yes we are mile ahead of Cork. We have better players in almost every position
They havent been a consistent championship team in many years.
Tyrone will beat them comfortably.

eddieSize5Balls (Donegal) - Posts: 38 - 07/06/2024 01:13:09    2549936

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Replying To sligo joe:  "I understand Ulster is a minefield and can overstress teams but it is swings and roundabouts. Ulster teams learn a lot say about emerging players as they move through the Ulster championship while Dublin/Kerry know less about their newbies until knock out, too late? Just because it is continuously being said that Ulster teams are at a disadvantage doesn't mean it's true."
Ah here, the poor newbies in Kerry and Dublin, wee lambs are they?

Lets take this year just as one example shall we...

Ulster Winners: Donegal

Derry away (NFL Div 1 Winners)
Tyrone (Div 1) AET
Armagh AET (Div2 but in reality a Div 1 team)

Leinster Winners: Dublin (the shock!)

Home: Dublin v Meath (Div2)
Home: Dublin v Offaly (Div 3)
Home: Dublin v Louth (Div 2)

How is the above situation NOT advantageous to Dublin like? You're just not factually correct saying Ulster teams aren't at a disadvantage.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9352 - 07/06/2024 10:23:43    2549960

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Replying To sligo joe:  "I understand Ulster is a minefield and can overstress teams but it is swings and roundabouts. Ulster teams learn a lot say about emerging players as they move through the Ulster championship while Dublin/Kerry know less about their newbies until knock out, too late? Just because it is continuously being said that Ulster teams are at a disadvantage doesn't mean it's true."
Indeed, Ulster teams battering each other means that they know about all their emerging players, that is why Ulster hold the most All-Ireland football titles across the history of th- oh

Dublin and Kerry have always had an advantage due to the lack of strength in their provinces. That is not to say they have not been the best teams - 90% of the time they would have won all those All-Irelands regardless because they tend to have the best players anyway.

But don't try and spin that Dublin and Kerry don't know enough about their new young players until the quarter finals as some sort of disadvantage. Since the introduction of the backdoor in 2001, Dublin and Kerry have won 15 All Irelands between them. Even when a team has been "hardened" versus Kerry or Dublin being "caught" in the quarters, it was inevitably a team coming through the backdoor having played consistent games and being fit, not an Ulster team battered and bruised from a gruelling championship. 2010 Kerry were beaten by Down, Down had been beaten by Tyrone in the Ulster semi-final and then had 2 weeks to reset for the qualifiers. They played the previous three weeks in a row and found their groove, Kerry had sat on their arses for 4 weeks. That had nothing to do with Down being in Ulster.

Armagh won 7 Ulster titles between 1999 and 2008 and only made the All Ireland final once in that time. That team should have more without a doubt but it's not as if Ulster was an advantage to them.

CCFabu (Donegal) - Posts: 124 - 07/06/2024 10:39:23    2549962

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Replying To CCFabu:  "Indeed, Ulster teams battering each other means that they know about all their emerging players, that is why Ulster hold the most All-Ireland football titles across the history of th- oh

Dublin and Kerry have always had an advantage due to the lack of strength in their provinces. That is not to say they have not been the best teams - 90% of the time they would have won all those All-Irelands regardless because they tend to have the best players anyway.

But don't try and spin that Dublin and Kerry don't know enough about their new young players until the quarter finals as some sort of disadvantage. Since the introduction of the backdoor in 2001, Dublin and Kerry have won 15 All Irelands between them. Even when a team has been "hardened" versus Kerry or Dublin being "caught" in the quarters, it was inevitably a team coming through the backdoor having played consistent games and being fit, not an Ulster team battered and bruised from a gruelling championship. 2010 Kerry were beaten by Down, Down had been beaten by Tyrone in the Ulster semi-final and then had 2 weeks to reset for the qualifiers. They played the previous three weeks in a row and found their groove, Kerry had sat on their arses for 4 weeks. That had nothing to do with Down being in Ulster.

Armagh won 7 Ulster titles between 1999 and 2008 and only made the All Ireland final once in that time. That team should have more without a doubt but it's not as if Ulster was an advantage to them."
I'm not trying to spin anything. Any manager of a potential All Ireland winning team would like to have a progression of games with the opposition getting more difficult as they move through the rounds. The only way that could happen is an open but "seeded" draw and we don't have that. So the Ulster teams do have too many hard games too early, no argument. However the cakewalk through Leinster is not ideal either to prepare teams for what lies ahead.
Should Ulster seed their championship draw which on average could mean the winners would have a less gruelling route?
Finally looking at who won the All Irelands when a certain system was in place or when a certain province was weak etc. might have some merit but maybe Dublin and Kerry were just the best teams in those years.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 748 - 07/06/2024 15:09:07    2550018

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Replying To CCFabu:  "Indeed, Ulster teams battering each other means that they know about all their emerging players, that is why Ulster hold the most All-Ireland football titles across the history of th- oh

Dublin and Kerry have always had an advantage due to the lack of strength in their provinces. That is not to say they have not been the best teams - 90% of the time they would have won all those All-Irelands regardless because they tend to have the best players anyway.

But don't try and spin that Dublin and Kerry don't know enough about their new young players until the quarter finals as some sort of disadvantage. Since the introduction of the backdoor in 2001, Dublin and Kerry have won 15 All Irelands between them. Even when a team has been "hardened" versus Kerry or Dublin being "caught" in the quarters, it was inevitably a team coming through the backdoor having played consistent games and being fit, not an Ulster team battered and bruised from a gruelling championship. 2010 Kerry were beaten by Down, Down had been beaten by Tyrone in the Ulster semi-final and then had 2 weeks to reset for the qualifiers. They played the previous three weeks in a row and found their groove, Kerry had sat on their arses for 4 weeks. That had nothing to do with Down being in Ulster.

Armagh won 7 Ulster titles between 1999 and 2008 and only made the All Ireland final once in that time. That team should have more without a doubt but it's not as if Ulster was an advantage to them."
That's some stat about Armagh, 7 Ulster's in 10 years but only 1 All Ireland final appearance. the current team can't even manage to win an Ulster despite knocking on the door several times, are they Ulster's version of Mayo?

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2896 - 07/06/2024 15:22:02    2550025

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Replying To sligo joe:  "I understand Ulster is a minefield and can overstress teams but it is swings and roundabouts. Ulster teams learn a lot say about emerging players as they move through the Ulster championship while Dublin/Kerry know less about their newbies until knock out, too late? Just because it is continuously being said that Ulster teams are at a disadvantage doesn't mean it's true."
Look at who Donegal beat in Ulster this year (3 Division One teams for 2024/25) versus who Dublin and Kerry beat in their 'championships' (Div 2/3 teams) and you'll find the disadvantage is absolutely true and is based on facts.

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1378 - 07/06/2024 16:43:05    2550055

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Ah here, the poor newbies in Kerry and Dublin, wee lambs are they?

Lets take this year just as one example shall we...

Ulster Winners: Donegal

Derry away (NFL Div 1 Winners)
Tyrone (Div 1) AET
Armagh AET (Div2 but in reality a Div 1 team)

Leinster Winners: Dublin (the shock!)

Home: Dublin v Meath (Div2)
Home: Dublin v Offaly (Div 3)
Home: Dublin v Louth (Div 2)

How is the above situation NOT advantageous to Dublin like? You're just not factually correct saying Ulster teams aren't at a disadvantage."
That's why Joe moved from Sligo to Dublin!!!!!!

Scenicparish (Donegal) - Posts: 382 - 07/06/2024 17:58:31    2550071

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Replying To Donegal_abroad:  "Look at who Donegal beat in Ulster this year (3 Division One teams for 2024/25) versus who Dublin and Kerry beat in their 'championships' (Div 2/3 teams) and you'll find the disadvantage is absolutely true and is based on facts."
I never even suggested that the Ulster championship is not more difficult. My point is that from a management and team's point of view neither the gruelling Ulster championship or the soft Leinster championship is ideal preparation for the knock-out stages. No doubt McGuinness would prefer something less intense than Donegal got this year but similarly Farrell would have preferred sterner tests in Leinster.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 748 - 07/06/2024 18:16:25    2550076

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "That's some stat about Armagh, 7 Ulster's in 10 years but only 1 All Ireland final appearance. the current team can't even manage to win an Ulster despite knocking on the door several times, are they Ulster's version of Mayo?"
Armagh made the All Ireland final twice in that period. 2002 and 2003.

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 920 - 07/06/2024 21:34:03    2550093

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Replying To sligo joe:  "I never even suggested that the Ulster championship is not more difficult. My point is that from a management and team's point of view neither the gruelling Ulster championship or the soft Leinster championship is ideal preparation for the knock-out stages. No doubt McGuinness would prefer something less intense than Donegal got this year but similarly Farrell would have preferred sterner tests in Leinster."
I think when you look at the tight timeframes between championship matches, 2 weeks and sometimes only 7 days, then you take Leinster or Munster if you're Dublin or Kerry all day long over the Ulster championship. It's very much a disadvantage when it comes to a tilt at Sam Maguire. By the way, Dublin are the best team in Ireland and I fully respect that. But put themselves or Kerry into Ulster and for me they will experience the wear and tear Ulster teams experience as the year develops. I love the Ulster championship but the overall format has to change if Ulster teams want to go deep into the tilt for Sam Maguire.

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1378 - 08/06/2024 00:08:23    2550116

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Just a thought.
Sad to see how Tyrone have gone. A once good team now in bits. Haven't done well in Ulster in ages and we can beat them well with one decent year prep. They are weak mentally. A lot of good underage players going through so maybe they can compete with us soon again.

Armagh the real danger now.

TheRock2121 (Donegal) - Posts: 1170 - 08/06/2024 01:05:20    2550118

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