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Replying To Lockjaw: "I know we're all very despondent at the moment and God save us things might get a lot worse depending on how the draw goes in a wee while. But things can quickly change if, and it's a big if, we can sort out our internal issues. We have good footballers and if they're given the right resources and coaching to succeed they're certainly capable of a whole lot better than they've shown in 2023.
I've resigned myself to the fact that we're going to see a few more demoralising defeats in all likelihood in the next month or so. I hope we can then wipe the slate clean and immediately begin work to address the issues. It simply cannot be left to drift. 2024 won't be long coming around so we need to have our house in order early. Otherwise, as others have said we could find ourselves like Derry were for a number of years. We cannot fall into the trap of arrogantly assuming that no matter how bad things appear now, they surely couldn't get any worse. What you'll see happen then is that our best players will walk away and public apathy will accelerate." To fix an issue, we need to accurately understand what is causing the issue at senior level.
I'd say the current decline is due to the massive drop of experienced players in 2023, we have 15-20 players within the County who are still in their prime and within the age bracket to play for Donegal at this level, who for a variety of reasons have left the panel or are injured.
Our system of play is too predictable, think we need to shake it up. For example our attacking game needs to be more deliberate and focused, it needs to put the opposition on the back foot, but our players need to understand fully what is going on.
Watching Jason McGee against Down, it made me wonder if he could be an ideal inside forward target man or play CHF, he has the pace and shooting ability combined with height and aerial ability, he is definitely a major threat. Maybe with him inside, we could play Oisin Gallen and Jamie Brennan off him, play Michael Langan in midfield with Caolan McGonigle.
We need power and pace in attack.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1106 - 02/05/2023 13:35:33
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Replying To himachechy: "As good a draw as we could have hopped for. Not too much travel. Probably a case of beat Clare and you qualify out of the group in third. Monaghan are no world beaters either (although probably still better than us at this point in time!)" I would say we'll do well to win a game. Clare are a well coached team and would be better than Down in my opinion.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9116 - 02/05/2023 13:45:03
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Replying To The keeper: "Social media does not dictate whether a manager stays or goes, results do.
R GALLAGHER wasn't getting the best out of the players and had several disputes with players who deserved better.
Maybe it was just a bit to early for him, and he has improved since then.
I always laugh at people blaming social media for getting rid of management.
If your a strong enough manager you would have the cop on to stay away from social media and ignore the negative feedback.
Is there certain supporters that overstep the mark and it becomes to personal, yes there is, but there in a minority and you will alway get that.
Anyone that gets personal and attacks and drags family into it, is not a real gaa supporter.
However there is nothing wrong with 99 percent of the supporters who genuinely care for the county team and genuinely question where we are going under the management team.
The County board need to move with the times and learn that Social media is also a way of better communicating with its support base, and not close the doors to the very people that fund the county.
If you have nothing to hide, why not be open and transparent" 100% agree, we have shown over the previous 12 years with 10 Ulster final appearances during that time, that we are a top side and with the right management we can achieve great things. If you look at a team trend in Ulster football over the last 40-50 years, Donegal are becoming a dominant side, the trend would suggest we will continue to improve in the coming 20-30 years, albeit there can be periods of lows during the trends.
Criticism is fine so long as its fair and focused on tactics, setup and team selection etc, I don't agree with personal attacks of abuse at players, coaches, managers or officials. We as fans should be free to debate those things, obviously we should be respectful at all times.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1106 - 02/05/2023 13:47:07
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Replying To Lockjaw: "I would say we'll do well to win a game. Clare are a well coached team and would be better than Down in my opinion." Derry and Armagh look to be out of reach at the moment.
I think Monaghan/Clare/Donegal will all be targetting each other looking for that crucial win. Home advantage could be important too.
Looking forward to it anyway.
PolicemanFox (Monaghan) - Posts: 158 - 02/05/2023 13:52:10
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Replying To Lockjaw: "I would say we'll do well to win a game. Clare are a well coached team and would be better than Down in my opinion." I definitely agree with that. Clare are a very handy side and it looks like we will be away to them in the first round, then home to Derry and Monaghan in a neutral ground.
himachechy (Donegal) - Posts: 293 - 02/05/2023 13:53:41
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Replying To Lockjaw: "I would say we'll do well to win a game. Clare are a well coached team and would be better than Down in my opinion." Very conflicted about these games. Always want Donegal to win, but the sooner this season is over the better...
himachechy (Donegal) - Posts: 293 - 02/05/2023 13:56:13
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Replying To Commodore: "To fix an issue, we need to accurately understand what is causing the issue at senior level.
I'd say the current decline is due to the massive drop of experienced players in 2023, we have 15-20 players within the County who are still in their prime and within the age bracket to play for Donegal at this level, who for a variety of reasons have left the panel or are injured.
Our system of play is too predictable, think we need to shake it up. For example our attacking game needs to be more deliberate and focused, it needs to put the opposition on the back foot, but our players need to understand fully what is going on.
Watching Jason McGee against Down, it made me wonder if he could be an ideal inside forward target man or play CHF, he has the pace and shooting ability combined with height and aerial ability, he is definitely a major threat. Maybe with him inside, we could play Oisin Gallen and Jamie Brennan off him, play Michael Langan in midfield with Caolan McGonigle.
We need power and pace in attack." This is it, it's obvious that there are fundamental problems in the background. But until these are fully understood and addressed things aren't likely to improve. That's why I was in favour of an independent, impartial review led by Croke Park. Let there be nothing to hide. Those found to be in the wrong and/or blocking progress need to be asked to step away. Noone is bigger than Donegal GAA.
You mention the massive drop of experienced players from the setup for a variety of reasons. It's true in some cases, like Neil McGee for example, that he might have stepped away anyway, even if the setup was working as it should be. His time had come, and absolutely noone could begrudge him a thoroughly well-earned retirement for all his efforts.
But if things were right, and we hadn't experienced this absolue horror-show behind the scenes, I think we'd still have Ryan McHugh, Shane O'Donnell (I think Niall would have been ruled out anyway due to injury?) and perhaps even Michael Murphy.
If the right structures are in place, and the fitness and coaching is good then the best players will want to be involved to test themselves and be the best they can be. If not though, and with the levels of commitment required, then I wouldn't blame men from walking away.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9116 - 02/05/2023 14:10:15
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Replying To himachechy: "Very conflicted about these games. Always want Donegal to win, but the sooner this season is over the better..." This is exactly how I feel too. Sooner it's all over the better.
Having said that, beat Clare (who were relegated to Div.3) and we still qualify from the group. No matter how bad we currently are, that is a winnable match!
As long as we avoid hammerings in the other games.
PeterQ92 (Donegal) - Posts: 104 - 02/05/2023 14:51:56
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Replying To The keeper: "Social media does not dictate whether a manager stays or goes, results do.
R GALLAGHER wasn't getting the best out of the players and had several disputes with players who deserved better.
Maybe it was just a bit to early for him, and he has improved since then.
I always laugh at people blaming social media for getting rid of management.
If your a strong enough manager you would have the cop on to stay away from social media and ignore the negative feedback.
Is there certain supporters that overstep the mark and it becomes to personal, yes there is, but there in a minority and you will alway get that.
Anyone that gets personal and attacks and drags family into it, is not a real gaa supporter.
However there is nothing wrong with 99 percent of the supporters who genuinely care for the county team and genuinely question where we are going under the management team.
The County board need to move with the times and learn that Social media is also a way of better communicating with its support base, and not close the doors to the very people that fund the county.
If you have nothing to hide, why not be open and transparent" 100% agree, we have shown over the previous 12 years with 10 Ulster final appearances during that time, that we are a top side and with the right management we can achieve great things. If you look at a team trend in Ulster football over the last 40-50 years, Donegal are becoming a dominant side, the trend would suggest we will continue to improve in the coming 20-30 years, albeit there can be periods of lows during the trends.
Criticism is fine so long as its fair and focused on tactics, setup and team selection etc, I don't agree with personal attacks of abuse at players, coaches, managers or officials. We as fans should be free to debate those things, obviously we should be respectful at all times.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1106 - 02/05/2023 15:10:57
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Replying To The keeper: "Social media does not dictate whether a manager stays or goes, results do.
R GALLAGHER wasn't getting the best out of the players and had several disputes with players who deserved better.
Maybe it was just a bit to early for him, and he has improved since then.
I always laugh at people blaming social media for getting rid of management.
If your a strong enough manager you would have the cop on to stay away from social media and ignore the negative feedback.
Is there certain supporters that overstep the mark and it becomes to personal, yes there is, but there in a minority and you will alway get that.
Anyone that gets personal and attacks and drags family into it, is not a real gaa supporter.
However there is nothing wrong with 99 percent of the supporters who genuinely care for the county team and genuinely question where we are going under the management team.
The County board need to move with the times and learn that Social media is also a way of better communicating with its support base, and not close the doors to the very people that fund the county.
If you have nothing to hide, why not be open and transparent" 100% agree, we have shown over the previous 12 years with 10 Ulster final appearances during that time, that we are a top side and with the right management we can achieve great things. If you look at a team trend in Ulster football over the last 40-50 years, Donegal are becoming a dominant side, the trend would suggest we will continue to improve in the coming 20-30 years, albeit there can be periods of lows during the trends.
Criticism is fine so long as its fair and focused on tactics, setup and team selection etc, I don't agree with personal attacks of abuse at players, coaches, managers or officials. We as fans should be free to debate those things, obviously we should be respectful at all times.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1106 - 02/05/2023 15:11:02
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Replying To Lockjaw: "This is it, it's obvious that there are fundamental problems in the background. But until these are fully understood and addressed things aren't likely to improve. That's why I was in favour of an independent, impartial review led by Croke Park. Let there be nothing to hide. Those found to be in the wrong and/or blocking progress need to be asked to step away. Noone is bigger than Donegal GAA.
You mention the massive drop of experienced players from the setup for a variety of reasons. It's true in some cases, like Neil McGee for example, that he might have stepped away anyway, even if the setup was working as it should be. His time had come, and absolutely noone could begrudge him a thoroughly well-earned retirement for all his efforts.
But if things were right, and we hadn't experienced this absolue horror-show behind the scenes, I think we'd still have Ryan McHugh, Shane O'Donnell (I think Niall would have been ruled out anyway due to injury?) and perhaps even Michael Murphy.
If the right structures are in place, and the fitness and coaching is good then the best players will want to be involved to test themselves and be the best they can be. If not though, and with the levels of commitment required, then I wouldn't blame men from walking away." Yes, exactly, like how else can we fix issues without fully understand where the weak links are and address it.
This season we have some top players still in the team, but the gaps around them are plugged by a lot of inexperienced who need more time or maybe players who aren't quite good enough to start for Donegal, more squad players, Its those gaps that have been killing us this season.
We have fit quality players in the County right now who could do a great job for Donegal right now, the following are just but a sample from the Top 4 clubs
Kilcar:: Stephen McBrearty, Andrew McClean, Eoin McHugh.
Gaobh Dobhair : Odhran MacNiallias, Micheal Carroll, Odhran McFadden Ferry, Cian Mulligan
St Eunan's Niall O'Donnell, Shane O'Donnell, Eoin McGeehan, Aaron Deeney, Conor Morrison.
Naomh Conail: Ethan O'Donnell, Eoghain McGettigan, Odhran Doherty, Brendan McDyer
Thats not even including others out with injuries such as Ryan McHugh, Paddy McBrearty, Paul Brennan, Jack McKelvey and our recently retired Michael Murphy and Neil McGee, who can still do a job.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1106 - 02/05/2023 15:41:04
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Replying To Commodore: "Yes, exactly, like how else can we fix issues without fully understand where the weak links are and address it.
This season we have some top players still in the team, but the gaps around them are plugged by a lot of inexperienced who need more time or maybe players who aren't quite good enough to start for Donegal, more squad players, Its those gaps that have been killing us this season.
We have fit quality players in the County right now who could do a great job for Donegal right now, the following are just but a sample from the Top 4 clubs
Kilcar:: Stephen McBrearty, Andrew McClean, Eoin McHugh.
Gaobh Dobhair : Odhran MacNiallias, Micheal Carroll, Odhran McFadden Ferry, Cian Mulligan
St Eunan's Niall O'Donnell, Shane O'Donnell, Eoin McGeehan, Aaron Deeney, Conor Morrison.
Naomh Conail: Ethan O'Donnell, Eoghain McGettigan, Odhran Doherty, Brendan McDyer
Thats not even including others out with injuries such as Ryan McHugh, Paddy McBrearty, Paul Brennan, Jack McKelvey and our recently retired Michael Murphy and Neil McGee, who can still do a job." Donegal missing a few players but some of those players were on the panel previously and didn't make an impact. You'd maybe know the situation, was it the management or why did Stephen Mcbreatry not make an impact with Donegal.?
Odhran Macniallis was good when he broke into the Donegal team. Then went off the panel and returned and wasn't as good as previously.
Neil McGee wouldn't have the pace for County football at 37
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 02/05/2023 16:33:15
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Sad state of affairs when fellas are just hoping we avoid hammerings in the All Ireland series now, we should be contenders if everything was going right or at least hopeful of maybe making it to the semi final stage.
I still believe we have the talent there if it's harnessed correctly.
I suppose this season is really a write off the way things are but hope is the last to die so lets hope for the best,
either way I want to see a clean out after this season, fresh start needed with new leaders at county board level and a new hungry ambitious management team.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2739 - 02/05/2023 20:13:56
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I think our lot in the in the next few years could lie a lot with what approach officials from HQ take in their aftermath of their investigation. Will they give us all a 'nothing to see here' in the name of the so called protecting of selfless servants of the GAA and conserve a reflection of the cronyism in Drumcondra? Then, there's the opposite response where they see a heavy-hitter of a county in real peril and throw everything they have at getting us back on course, a little like they did with Dublin. Somewhere around the middle would be fine. It's obvious that the small group of characters on the board need to be ejected if they refuse to leave, limits need to be passed on how many terms one can sit on the board, preferably two in and not more than one in a single position, the academy with the coaches and Karl returned and restored at all costs, a smart, innovative and new management ticket installed as well as a serious review into who and how we hire someone to manage S&C.
StockholmGael (Donegal) - Posts: 111 - 03/05/2023 09:35:15
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Replying To StockholmGael: "I think our lot in the in the next few years could lie a lot with what approach officials from HQ take in their aftermath of their investigation. Will they give us all a 'nothing to see here' in the name of the so called protecting of selfless servants of the GAA and conserve a reflection of the cronyism in Drumcondra? Then, there's the opposite response where they see a heavy-hitter of a county in real peril and throw everything they have at getting us back on course, a little like they did with Dublin. Somewhere around the middle would be fine. It's obvious that the small group of characters on the board need to be ejected if they refuse to leave, limits need to be passed on how many terms one can sit on the board, preferably two in and not more than one in a single position, the academy with the coaches and Karl returned and restored at all costs, a smart, innovative and new management ticket installed as well as a serious review into who and how we hire someone to manage S&C." Good post. We need to cop on, get with the times and not be running our affairs like some tinpot banana republic.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9116 - 03/05/2023 09:47:08
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Replying To SouthOfTheGap: "I took a week away from Social Media/Forum after last week. I was disappointed, and I actually thought there would be a lot of bull×××× here. I was pleasantly surprised that there was a lot of sense being spoken.
The reality is that we are miles off it. I do a bit of stewarding, and I've actually been to most games in Ulster this year. The Derry team that we should have beaten last June are now many many miles ahead of us. Armagh, who were also relegated along are also away ahead of us. I suspect that they used the League as a training block where they didnt want to give too much away. Tyrone and Monaghan will emerge from the 3rd seeds in their groups over any of the 2nd seeds.
The Down team, now a Tailteann Cup team, although starting to make shapes, are around our level. They beat us in Newry because they were fitter. Their game plan only worked when our legs were gone. That we were beaten by a superior fitness is a damning indictment of what our players have been at the last five or six months. Paddy McBrearty took the warm up in Newry, and if rumours are to be believed, he has been taking the training sessions as well. Not good enough. Michael Langan starting when he was obviously nowhere near fit just smells of pure desperation.
We really need to get our house in order for next year. Hopefully the right people put their hands up for the greater good of the county, and arent put off by the negativity. And hopefully the clubs will instruct their delegates in the right course." Great post, sums it all up brilliantly
CCFabu (Donegal) - Posts: 94 - 03/05/2023 11:10:05
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Good post. We need to cop on, get with the times and not be running our affairs like some tinpot banana republic." 100%. It honestly baffles me how some elements would like to protect those who are allowing this sad state of affairs to proceed. They haven't walked yet so it I wonder will they be shoved and the sooner the better.
Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1319 - 03/05/2023 11:13:17
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The review will likely recommend changes to the overall Academy structure which will remove some roles and create new roles. Each role will be up for interview again I would imagine, and this will be the compromise so that certain individuals get to leave without being asked to leave.
What the review won't do is recommend changes to current county board roles. Some of these roles are up for re-election next year regardless, but I would certainly say that the chair must put himself up for re-election next year due to the handling of the crisis. If not, the clubs should force that through. The damage that this spring has done to the GAA in Donegal is not limited to county teams. Club membership numbers will evaporate under what is now a politically-compromised county board.
SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 373 - 03/05/2023 11:42:51
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Replying To FoolsGold: " Replying To Commodore: "Yes, exactly, like how else can we fix issues without fully understand where the weak links are and address it.
This season we have some top players still in the team, but the gaps around them are plugged by a lot of inexperienced who need more time or maybe players who aren't quite good enough to start for Donegal, more squad players, Its those gaps that have been killing us this season.
We have fit quality players in the County right now who could do a great job for Donegal right now, the following are just but a sample from the Top 4 clubs
Kilcar:: Stephen McBrearty, Andrew McClean, Eoin McHugh.
Gaobh Dobhair : Odhran MacNiallias, Micheal Carroll, Odhran McFadden Ferry, Cian Mulligan
St Eunan's Niall O'Donnell, Shane O'Donnell, Eoin McGeehan, Aaron Deeney, Conor Morrison.
Naomh Conail: Ethan O'Donnell, Eoghain McGettigan, Odhran Doherty, Brendan McDyer
Thats not even including others out with injuries such as Ryan McHugh, Paddy McBrearty, Paul Brennan, Jack McKelvey and our recently retired Michael Murphy and Neil McGee, who can still do a job." Donegal missing a few players but some of those players were on the panel previously and didn't make an impact. You'd maybe know the situation, was it the management or why did Stephen Mcbreatry not make an impact with Donegal.? Odhran Macniallis was good when he broke into the Donegal team. Then went off the panel and returned and wasn't as good as previously. Neil McGee wouldn't have the pace for County football at 37"
Not accurate, quite a few of the players listed previously had nailed down starting place with the Donegal seniors, only to later drop out or walk away for various reasons.
You'd maybe know the situation, was it the management or why did Stephen Mcbreatry not make an impact with Donegal.?
He is a class player, but I never really settled in the Seniors during his initial spell, but in saying that I felt he never really got a proper run to get time to settle, I think if he got a chance now he would be a different animal and probably fulfil his potential.
Odhran Macniallis was good when he broke into the Donegal team. Then went off the panel and returned and wasn't as good as previously.
I disagree on this, Odhran MacNiallais is one of the finest naturally gifted footballers Donegal Football has every produced, he has pace, high fielding and amazing kicking ability, he just lost interest and left the panel. He returned in 2021 briefly, but only made appearances from the bench and got frustrated and left at the end of the season. He had his reasons, but its a real shame.
Neil McGee wouldn't have the pace for County football at 37"
Agreed, I only referenced Neil as he only retired after last season. I actually only listed players from 4 top clubs who previously played Championship football for Donegal in the last few years, players that are still in the age bracket and are good enough and probably a lot better than what we've got at the moment.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1106 - 03/05/2023 13:29:59
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Replying To Donegal_abroad: "100%. It honestly baffles me how some elements would like to protect those who are allowing this sad state of affairs to proceed. They haven't walked yet so it I wonder will they be shoved and the sooner the better." I guess this Croke Park investigation will get to the bottom of it, they are independent group sent in to try and understand the issues and assess what has actually gone wrong. Report is due by 31st May, so we should have an idea by then.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1106 - 03/05/2023 15:28:47
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