|
I don't agree with rorysboys on some things but he's right on the club football. it's not any ones clubs fault or any one manager or setup in my view, but it's something that has proven successful at winning county titles and unfortunately the club game is littered then with coaches that are in "win-now" mode and don't give a damn about anything else. that's their prerogative but there's a serious dearth of leadership across the game in Donegal in my opinion.
it's a bit of a feedback loop in that the county board have this attitude of looking after themselves for such a long time and the clubs don't seem to vote for change, so this attitude just seeps through the whole county. like I said previously if we are essentially refusing to get our greatest ever players and managers involved in the game across Donegal over some petty squabbles and precious egos, what are we at. For all the reservations about Jim among some (which to be honest I just don't understand), he is clearly a driven, ambitious man with a vision for Donegal and a high performance mindset. And that filters down to Karl Lacey, Michael Murphy, Kavanagh, the McGees etc. All the boys from 2012 should be brought inside the tent if they want to be involved in football and coaching in any way whatsoever. To refuse them that when they are the best of us is just madness.
It is history repeating itself with the Martin McHugh debacle in the 90s. We never capitalised on that great team from the 80s and finally winning in 92, we never put the structures in place and we let all that experience slip through the net. And we're doing it all over again.
CCFabu (Donegal) - Posts: 96 - 21/03/2023 09:53:16
2465406
Link
4
|
|
I found the game against Mayo a painful watch, it was like a senior team playing an u20 side in a challenge match. To be fair to our lads they fought gamely for the first 20 minutes and played some decent stuff but Mayo dominated from there on. We have so many issues that it's difficult to know where to start. We just can't seem to score more the 9/10 points per game, that has been a consistent pattern now. You just won't keep top teams like Mayo from scoring less than 10 points. Our forward play is just so predictable and laboured, I can't even remember the last time we created a decent goal scoring chance.
Shaun Patton needs to stay on his line, repeatedly getting caught in possession in every game. I don't blame him, he isn't an outfield player. It's different for the likes of Morgan and Beggan who play outfield for their clubs. When we do go long, we seem to get some joy but are just really reluctant to do it. Do we have a fitness problem? The sight of Tommy Conroy ripping through us was painful, remember he is returning from a long term injury and looked sharper than our entire team. Ciaran Thompson had a good first half
The league is gone now so all we can do is focus on the championship game against Down in 5 weeks time. Can we improve the overall fitness of the team within 5 weeks? If we could somehow get past Down, which is by no means certain, we will most likely play Armagh in the ulster semi-final. That possibly could be a low scoring battle and we might have a chance. I am clutching at straws here I know but if we could win two championship games things could change quickly.
Unfortunately rorysboys has been right all along, we don't have the players and there are none coming through that are ready to hit the ground running. Changing the manager is only rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. It's a rebuilding job and we should be concentrating on getting our academy up and running ASAP. That is more important than what is going on with our senior team. It must be obvious to everyone by now that we need to invest in the academy. Mayo do things right and you can see their young players are ready for county football.
Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1874 - 21/03/2023 09:57:06
2465409
Link
4
|
|
Replying To totalrecall: "What club is the county chairman from?? What club is the coaching officer from??? Did anyone not hear devenney's party political broadcast on otb last week giving his buddy's views??? Highland has always had a letterkenny bias, it's their bread and butter so no surprise there, they aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them!" Remember the email that was sent to both Highland and Donegal News from the county board when they released their statement. It's rotten to the core.
ryan (Donegal) - Posts: 724 - 21/03/2023 11:33:49
2465438
Link
2
|
|
We are back to the post McIver and pre mcguinness era....
totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 916 - 21/03/2023 12:20:57
2465455
Link
2
|
|
Paddy Carr seems like a nice man.....but this is football and unfortunately the post match rhetoric of pride in the jersey isn't going to fix the current malaise. Whoever his coaching team led by Aiden O'Rourke need to define some sort of game plan for the championship. There has been no evidence of a game plan so far at in the league. I would settle for urgency to move the ball forward and to transition with pace, neither have been evident to date.
Bonner got relegated in his first year but we managed to pick up an ulster title. Down are no great shakes but on our current level of performance I would not expect us to get anything out of newry.
totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 916 - 21/03/2023 12:28:08
2465458
Link
2
|
|
A the same old stuff coming from different posters as per usual, the We are not good enough brigade, we haven't got the players brigade.
Its the style of football the clubs are playing..............
My own club won the championship in 2005 by playing defensive football.
Did that stop us in 2012 playing defensive/counter attacking football that won us the all Ireland and brought us to the final in 14.
Roscommon managed to stay in Div 1, are the same posters saying that there are better footballers up there that in Donegal.
Its total nonsense, there are plenty of talented footballers in Donegal, but we need to give them a chance.
They looked totally unprepared and lacking physically and in fitness against mayo.
There are plenty of past greats that have said there are 20 great footballers in every county, its just a matter of giving them the tools to strive and succeed.
Unfortunately there are very few great men out there that are capable of managing and leading there county to glory.
Look at the warm up the last day against mayo
or under the management teams the last few years. Lacklustre at best. A team not prepared to go to war
You look at our all Ireland winning management team and their warm up. It was gruelling, intense, focused, a team that was mentally prepared to go to war before the ball was even thrown in.
Thats why i have said the last few years were just average at best, because you knew by the warm ups and preparation that we were not physically or mentally prepared to go to war to win.
Until we get that back as a team, we will continue to fail.
That and we also need our county board to work for the betterment of our county and not there own profile or ego
The keeper (Donegal) - Posts: 687 - 21/03/2023 12:34:07
2465460
Link
2
|
|
Replying To CCFabu: "I don't agree with rorysboys on some things but he's right on the club football. it's not any ones clubs fault or any one manager or setup in my view, but it's something that has proven successful at winning county titles and unfortunately the club game is littered then with coaches that are in "win-now" mode and don't give a damn about anything else. that's their prerogative but there's a serious dearth of leadership across the game in Donegal in my opinion.
it's a bit of a feedback loop in that the county board have this attitude of looking after themselves for such a long time and the clubs don't seem to vote for change, so this attitude just seeps through the whole county. like I said previously if we are essentially refusing to get our greatest ever players and managers involved in the game across Donegal over some petty squabbles and precious egos, what are we at. For all the reservations about Jim among some (which to be honest I just don't understand), he is clearly a driven, ambitious man with a vision for Donegal and a high performance mindset. And that filters down to Karl Lacey, Michael Murphy, Kavanagh, the McGees etc. All the boys from 2012 should be brought inside the tent if they want to be involved in football and coaching in any way whatsoever. To refuse them that when they are the best of us is just madness.
It is history repeating itself with the Martin McHugh debacle in the 90s. We never capitalised on that great team from the 80s and finally winning in 92, we never put the structures in place and we let all that experience slip through the net. And we're doing it all over again." Was this not what Lacey was working on with the academy??? The emphasis had changed to kicking under his direction at this was one of the key directives given to all the coaches. There was a recognition that the game had adapted to the blanket defences and that quick transition was key
.
totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 916 - 21/03/2023 13:30:24
2465476
Link
0
|
|
Replying To totalrecall: "What club is the county chairman from?? What club is the coaching officer from??? Did anyone not hear devenney's party political broadcast on otb last week giving his buddy's views??? Highland has always had a letterkenny bias, it's their bread and butter so no surprise there, they aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them!" Hi totalrecall: Devenney and Oisin Kelly from Highland Radio seem to be batting for one side alright. See Devenney having a go online at Sean Kavanagh also regarding his "Donegal football left in a shambles" comments. Your Letterkenny angle is interesting but seems too simplistic, has to be more to it than that, there's either friendships involved or someone somewhere is influencing the radio station.
AudiMan (Donegal) - Posts: 648 - 21/03/2023 13:51:04
2465481
Link
0
|
|
Replying To The keeper: "A the same old stuff coming from different posters as per usual, the We are not good enough brigade, we haven't got the players brigade.
Its the style of football the clubs are playing..............
My own club won the championship in 2005 by playing defensive football.
Did that stop us in 2012 playing defensive/counter attacking football that won us the all Ireland and brought us to the final in 14.
Roscommon managed to stay in Div 1, are the same posters saying that there are better footballers up there that in Donegal.
Its total nonsense, there are plenty of talented footballers in Donegal, but we need to give them a chance.
They looked totally unprepared and lacking physically and in fitness against mayo.
There are plenty of past greats that have said there are 20 great footballers in every county, its just a matter of giving them the tools to strive and succeed.
Unfortunately there are very few great men out there that are capable of managing and leading there county to glory.
Look at the warm up the last day against mayo
or under the management teams the last few years. Lacklustre at best. A team not prepared to go to war
You look at our all Ireland winning management team and their warm up. It was gruelling, intense, focused, a team that was mentally prepared to go to war before the ball was even thrown in.
Thats why i have said the last few years were just average at best, because you knew by the warm ups and preparation that we were not physically or mentally prepared to go to war to win.
Until we get that back as a team, we will continue to fail.
That and we also need our county board to work for the betterment of our county and not there own profile or ego" Here we go again, Mc Guinness podcast last week must have revitalised you. Not a peep from you since the Kerry game before that. Football has moved on kid since 2012 defensive football is gone. Last Sunday showed how far we are behind the big teams. How many times do I have to say we don't have the defenders to succeed at the top level, bonner and rochford realised that a few years ago yet there's was a clamour on here this last few years for us to play attacking football. We saw how that turned out last Sunday. We don't have players of the quality of the Mc gees. Lacey. Mc grath. Thompson. Surely you must realise that. It's always the managers fault in this county the players seem to be perfect. Until we get our club game right forget about the big days in Croke Park.. I'm very seldom wrong.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2404 - 21/03/2023 14:58:38
2465516
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Lockjaw: "Well things are going from bad to worse. A humbling defeat at home and injuries to Mogan and Gallen. We're a middling Division 2 team at present and will do well to get out of Newry with a win to be honest about it. I can't remember morale being as low in the county in a long, long time. The county board exists in order to promote the well-being and best interests of Donegal GAA. In no sense whatsoever is that the case currently. I see they've advertised looking for an u16 academy manager now? Laughable.
I think someone else already mentioned it here, and I agree, we are currently like English soccer fans clamoring for an unwanted chairman/board to sell up and get out. I really think that needs to happen and fast. An independent audit conducted by Croke Park would soon sort out the bluffers. There would be no hiding places then. I keep hearing there's two sides to the story. Lets hear them so. I believe that's what Paul McGonigle was after, but as we all know he was unsuccessful in his bid for chairman.
I would strongly recommend again that you get to your next club meeting and make your opinion heard. It's the only way change can happen." Lockjaw there are 3 sides to the story. Co boards 1 acadamy etc 2 and the truth 3.
tirconnell (Donegal) - Posts: 35 - 21/03/2023 15:20:06
2465522
Link
0
|
|
Replying To rorysboys: "Sure the other 4 have clubs too . Don't get your point. Players are that used to the defensive football that have ruined Donegal football this long while. It's time clubs let the shackles off and give there players some enjoyment back." My point is that club football should have nothing to do with county football. The Management should be good enough to adapt whatever system they choose to play. The Donegal team are nowhere near fit enough for a start.
Mayo played with 14 men behind the ball as soon as they lost possession ( O Shea upfront on his own ) .
They broke at pace as soon as they won the ball back. Simple system but you need pace and power to play that way.
The Ulster Final was won by the team playing the exact same way last year.
Scenicparish (Donegal) - Posts: 275 - 21/03/2023 15:33:55
2465528
Link
1
|
|
https://www.donegallive.ie/news/gaa/1066372/mcshea-s-say-sinking-donegal-in-complete-disarray
Padraig McShea not mincing his words in this article. He only fell short of naming the former Chairman (his own club man) directly. McShea is usually fairly diplomatic, so it's clear that he recognises a huge issue at the moment. I have to saybI agree with his sentiments in this article.
SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 584 - 21/03/2023 16:07:16
2465536
Link
2
|
|
Replying To Scenicparish: "My point is that club football should have nothing to do with county football. The Management should be good enough to adapt whatever system they choose to play. The Donegal team are nowhere near fit enough for a start.
Mayo played with 14 men behind the ball as soon as they lost possession ( O Shea upfront on his own ) .
They broke at pace as soon as they won the ball back. Simple system but you need pace and power to play that way.
The Ulster Final was won by the team playing the exact same way last year." I think club football has a lot to do with it. For a start man marking is non existent in club football it's everybody behind the ball and when a county manager wants to play expansive football he can't because players are not used to going man to man.. I agree that we didn't look fit far from it. Bonner and rochford got lynched last year because they lost an Ulster final in extra time mirroring derrys set up. Looking back now they were probably right to do it. Because I'm sad to say that's what donegal players are used to.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2404 - 21/03/2023 16:21:42
2465546
Link
0
|
|
The problems with Donegal football didnt happpen in the last few months. Years of poor coaching and poor managers of the underage teams,lead to teams just defending to keep scores down and no attacking football coached. Underage and club managers were happed not to get bet by very much just to keep their jobs and expenses instead of letting players express themselves and play and enjoy playing football.. On last sunday line saw goalkeeper loose ball to O Sheas tackling on a number of occasions but no one told to to get rid of ball before he was tackled and again when Gallen was injured and left field no sub ready for a few minutes ,small things make a difference.
jacktheboy (Donegal) - Posts: 405 - 21/03/2023 17:01:09
2465563
Link
0
|
|
Replying To totalrecall: "Was this not what Lacey was working on with the academy??? The emphasis had changed to kicking under his direction at this was one of the key directives given to all the coaches. There was a recognition that the game had adapted to the blanket defences and that quick transition was key
." yes but the sad thing is egos cannot get out of their own way in Donegal, for some reason it's always like this, one step forward and twenty steps back it feels like. there was a unified idea after 2012 of not repeating the mistakes post-1992, to capitalise on the momentum of winning Sam and getting the Academy built and investing in youth structures in Donegal. but now we're at the same craic only a few years delayed
McShea said it well in his article about the wranglings in Donegal football. I've never understood it, I'm sure Donegal isn't unique with this craic but it is frustrating
CCFabu (Donegal) - Posts: 96 - 21/03/2023 17:43:27
2465586
Link
0
|
|
Replying To The keeper: "A the same old stuff coming from different posters as per usual, the We are not good enough brigade, we haven't got the players brigade.
Its the style of football the clubs are playing..............
My own club won the championship in 2005 by playing defensive football.
Did that stop us in 2012 playing defensive/counter attacking football that won us the all Ireland and brought us to the final in 14.
Roscommon managed to stay in Div 1, are the same posters saying that there are better footballers up there that in Donegal.
Its total nonsense, there are plenty of talented footballers in Donegal, but we need to give them a chance.
They looked totally unprepared and lacking physically and in fitness against mayo.
There are plenty of past greats that have said there are 20 great footballers in every county, its just a matter of giving them the tools to strive and succeed.
Unfortunately there are very few great men out there that are capable of managing and leading there county to glory.
Look at the warm up the last day against mayo
or under the management teams the last few years. Lacklustre at best. A team not prepared to go to war
You look at our all Ireland winning management team and their warm up. It was gruelling, intense, focused, a team that was mentally prepared to go to war before the ball was even thrown in.
Thats why i have said the last few years were just average at best, because you knew by the warm ups and preparation that we were not physically or mentally prepared to go to war to win.
Until we get that back as a team, we will continue to fail.
That and we also need our county board to work for the betterment of our county and not there own profile or ego" I don't know if you're lumping me in with same old stuff or whatever, I do think we're better than we showed against Mayo and we do have good talent in the county but I think it's fair to say the club game in Donegal isn't exactly a good atmosphere to develop as a man marker, or to develop your kick passing attacking game for example. Clubs copy one another with the same tactics usually and that's what I meant by dearth of leadership in the county, there doesn't seem to be much bravery among teams that are less successful to try something different
what disappoints me is that the type of style that dominates in Donegal club football does have its merits especially in terms of mentality, in theory we should be developing hardy, never-say-die type players but that doesn't seem to be happening either
CCFabu (Donegal) - Posts: 96 - 21/03/2023 17:48:48
2465590
Link
1
|
|
Replying To jacktheboy: "The problems with Donegal football didnt happpen in the last few months. Years of poor coaching and poor managers of the underage teams,lead to teams just defending to keep scores down and no attacking football coached. Underage and club managers were happed not to get bet by very much just to keep their jobs and expenses instead of letting players express themselves and play and enjoy playing football.. On last sunday line saw goalkeeper loose ball to O Sheas tackling on a number of occasions but no one told to to get rid of ball before he was tackled and again when Gallen was injured and left field no sub ready for a few minutes ,small things make a difference." I'd say Rochford had told O'Shea that Patton cannot kick with his left at all. On a number of occasions O'Shea chased Patton onto his left side. The results weren't pretty. And for all Pattons strengths, unlike Morgan, Beggan, Rafferty or Cluxton, all with out field experience, they are well used to the physical contact, and how to break a tackle. Is it something that can be worked on?
SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 584 - 21/03/2023 18:02:43
2465596
Link
0
|
|
Replying To rorysboys: "Here we go again, Mc Guinness podcast last week must have revitalised you. Not a peep from you since the Kerry game before that. Football has moved on kid since 2012 defensive football is gone. Last Sunday showed how far we are behind the big teams. How many times do I have to say we don't have the defenders to succeed at the top level, bonner and rochford realised that a few years ago yet there's was a clamour on here this last few years for us to play attacking football. We saw how that turned out last Sunday. We don't have players of the quality of the Mc gees. Lacey. Mc grath. Thompson. Surely you must realise that. It's always the managers fault in this county the players seem to be perfect. Until we get our club game right forget about the big days in Croke Park.. I'm very seldom wrong." You talk some nonsense kid
There is no excuses for a team being unprepared fitness wise or physicality wise.
I can understand meeting a team with better footballers and getting beat.
I can not accept getting hammered and bullied by any team.
Thats down to either not playing for the management or the management not preparing the team correctly. Either way, its not good enough.
There were numerous people that mentioned the sheer lacklustre warmup before the start. It was called unprofessional.
Football has not moved on that much, kerry, and several other teams have men behind the ball, the difference is they have the fitness and physicality to counter attack at pace
The keeper (Donegal) - Posts: 687 - 21/03/2023 20:33:47
2465628
Link
0
|
|
Replying To The keeper: "You talk some nonsense kid
There is no excuses for a team being unprepared fitness wise or physicality wise.
I can understand meeting a team with better footballers and getting beat.
I can not accept getting hammered and bullied by any team.
Thats down to either not playing for the management or the management not preparing the team correctly. Either way, its not good enough.
There were numerous people that mentioned the sheer lacklustre warmup before the start. It was called unprofessional.
Football has not moved on that much, kerry, and several other teams have men behind the ball, the difference is they have the fitness and physicality to counter attack at pace" Agree. Having men behind the ball is useless if they're passive. You need to be getting in opposition faces and hitting hard. Then when the ball is over turned, break at speed and get the ball to the other scoring zone as soon as possible. I know that is easier said than done though. It requires a lot of fitness but also a certain mindset in terms of intensity and for want of a better word - thickness.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9136 - 22/03/2023 10:19:34
2465669
Link
0
|
|
Replying To The keeper: "You talk some nonsense kid
There is no excuses for a team being unprepared fitness wise or physicality wise.
I can understand meeting a team with better footballers and getting beat.
I can not accept getting hammered and bullied by any team.
Thats down to either not playing for the management or the management not preparing the team correctly. Either way, its not good enough.
There were numerous people that mentioned the sheer lacklustre warmup before the start. It was called unprofessional.
Football has not moved on that much, kerry, and several other teams have men behind the ball, the difference is they have the fitness and physicality to counter attack at pace" What is stopping us defending and breaking at speed. The answer is we don't have enough of them quality players.I'm sick saying it . At this present moment we are falling behind the big teams in Ulster. True Mc Guinness was a great manager but the winning of the all Ireland was due to us having a brilliant crop of players well managed plus we had a once in a lifetime player in Murphy . We don't have any where near that now. People like your self have blown this group of players up to be All Ireland material. Rubbish .You criticised bonner since he took over because of a personal agenda but any team bonner puts out are well organised. You mentioned that n Conal had 2 or 3 defenders that should be on where are they every manager can't be wrong.. going back to club football if we can't beat the antrim champions it just shows where we're at,football in Donegal is dying a death players are losing interest, if you were a forward playing now how could you be motivated to gave a commitment when all you do is run all day and play most of your football in your own defence.. wake up and smell the coffee lad.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2404 - 22/03/2023 11:14:30
2465703
Link
0
|