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Put a couple of post up on this but can't seem to get them over the line. Tyrion (Donegal) - Posts: 165 - 11/03/2023 15:47:18 2463385 Link
Replying To peiledoir20: "Where and when have i said the CB are blameless? There is no party in this blameless. But what i find strange is that neither GDM, past or present, felt comfortable in line managing. If it was in their remit it should have been done. Is that why things started to slide or get out of hand? From either side, before i get accused of being on one side or another again." This is the issue in a nutshell though. Karl mentioned that he repeatedly requested a job specification, without any success. I don't think anything like the required planning was done. Roles weren't specified, structures were not thought through, it appears as almost no planning went in to it. They simply agreed to putting someone in place and letting that person do their job for them. That in and of itself shows a lack of governance, a lack of diligence and a lack of control around things. It certainly appears that they are not fit for purpose, and if that is the case, they should be held accountable. They retrospectively realised that the appropriate structures were not in place and went about changing peoples roles and putting in new positions in an ad-hoc manner. Hence GDM not being comfortable with the change in role. The whole thing is a mess from a governance perspective. People have put their heart and soul into it, were putting together something special, but the entire thing has been compromised and fallen apart due to the CB's incompititance and heavy handed attempt to put things right. ninety-two (Donegal) - Posts: 27 - 11/03/2023 16:23:10 2463399 Link
Replying To ninety-two: "This is the issue in a nutshell though. Karl mentioned that he repeatedly requested a job specification, without any success. I don't think anything like the required planning was done. Roles weren't specified, structures were not thought through, it appears as almost no planning went in to it. They simply agreed to putting someone in place and letting that person do their job for them. That in and of itself shows a lack of governance, a lack of diligence and a lack of control around things. It certainly appears that they are not fit for purpose, and if that is the case, they should be held accountable. They retrospectively realised that the appropriate structures were not in place and went about changing peoples roles and putting in new positions in an ad-hoc manner. Hence GDM not being comfortable with the change in role. The whole thing is a mess from a governance perspective. People have put their heart and soul into it, were putting together something special, but the entire thing has been compromised and fallen apart due to the CB's incompititance and heavy handed attempt to put things right." Absolutely 100%. Their solution was to slander the people involved which is more worrying in my opinion. ryan (Donegal) - Posts: 748 - 11/03/2023 16:40:54 2463406 Link
Replying To ninety-two: "This is the issue in a nutshell though. Karl mentioned that he repeatedly requested a job specification, without any success. I don't think anything like the required planning was done. Roles weren't specified, structures were not thought through, it appears as almost no planning went in to it. They simply agreed to putting someone in place and letting that person do their job for them. That in and of itself shows a lack of governance, a lack of diligence and a lack of control around things. It certainly appears that they are not fit for purpose, and if that is the case, they should be held accountable. They retrospectively realised that the appropriate structures were not in place and went about changing peoples roles and putting in new positions in an ad-hoc manner. Hence GDM not being comfortable with the change in role. The whole thing is a mess from a governance perspective. People have put their heart and soul into it, were putting together something special, but the entire thing has been compromised and fallen apart due to the CB's incompititance and heavy handed attempt to put things right." According to the article it was the GDM at the time who suggested that Karl heard the Academy up. As a direct employee of the CB I can't see them how they felt 'uncomfortable' being his line manager. If they were happy enough to propose him to head the Academy up in the first instence i fail to see what the issue is with line managing him. Karl reports to the GDM and they report to the CB. Its generally the way it works in other sectors. If i was to turn around to my line manager next week and say i wasn't confortsble managing someone I know what I'd be told. peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 1198 - 11/03/2023 16:42:01 2463407 Link
Replying To peiledoir20: "And according to the article neither he not his predecessor 'felt comfortable' line managing Lacey. Seems like money well spend! The GDM was the main link between the Academy and the CB and perhaps should have kept the communication lines open a bit better. Could have saved a lot of this mess." You seem eager to blame anyone other than the CB. Is it really that hard to conceive that they have made this mess. Granted there is undoubtedly bits and pieces conveniently omitted from the article, but the CB's candidness certainly suggests quite a lot of the wrongdoing was on their part. From the outside, it certainly appears that a lack of governance, planning and preparation in setting up the academy are at the core of this. If they threw Lacey in to the position and left him to it, without carefully preparing the structures beforehand, or at the very least alongside Karl, then they are to blame, not Karl. That combined with a few sensitive ego's, more concerned with self preservation than the betterment of football in Donegal, have us where we are. I would love to see a complete overhaul, with positions filled by progressive, forward thinking candidates. Unfortunately, in this country, it seems that no matter how much of a mess those in power make of it, they can simply ride it out without any accountability. Which is what will happen. ninety-two (Donegal) - Posts: 27 - 11/03/2023 17:38:21 2463414 Link
The people on here trying to defend the indefensible and shift blame are part of the problem in this county. You're defending power merchants and people stuck in a 1990s mindset I'm afraid. Cahir O'Kane's article makes reference to specific incidents unlike the vague county board statement and overall radio silence. These incidents either happened or they didn't. If they happened as par the article, then the county board as a whole should stand down. Some of the insinuations around press silencing are deeply worrying. They're in line with the omertà-style managerial appointment process which appointed Carr after an eternity. It's becoming very clear that plenty in the county board and a few other ego merchants who pull the strings are tampering with the progress of Donegal football and footballers. This, overall, is the heart of the issue and it's very disheartening. It's sad that the county board resembles a political party rather than a forward looking sporting organisation but here we are. I hope Croke Park investigate. Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1409 - 11/03/2023 19:12:27 2463422 Link
Replying To Donegal_abroad: "The people on here trying to defend the indefensible and shift blame are part of the problem in this county. You're defending power merchants and people stuck in a 1990s mindset I'm afraid. Cahir O'Kane's article makes reference to specific incidents unlike the vague county board statement and overall radio silence. These incidents either happened or they didn't. If they happened as par the article, then the county board as a whole should stand down. Some of the insinuations around press silencing are deeply worrying. They're in line with the omertà-style managerial appointment process which appointed Carr after an eternity. It's becoming very clear that plenty in the county board and a few other ego merchants who pull the strings are tampering with the progress of Donegal football and footballers. This, overall, is the heart of the issue and it's very disheartening. It's sad that the county board resembles a political party rather than a forward looking sporting organisation but here we are. I hope Croke Park investigate." The best post I read on here in a long, long time. ryan (Donegal) - Posts: 748 - 11/03/2023 19:37:15 2463425 Link
Replying To eunans4ever: "The article written IMO opinion is very very one sided and it's clear it's based on leaks from that one side. I'm not saying any of it's not true but there is always 2 sides to everything. The county board now need to either dispute what's been written strongly or step aside cause if it's all true it's a mess. I'd suspect there are bits true but Also bits left out……" Maybe so but the other side is refusing to comment totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 1060 - 11/03/2023 20:04:52 2463430 Link
Jim McGuinness has gone for the Donegal job 4 times and has only gotten it once. Let that sink in ladies and gentlemen. ryan (Donegal) - Posts: 748 - 11/03/2023 20:05:40 2463431 Link
Replying To Donegal_abroad: "The people on here trying to defend the indefensible and shift blame are part of the problem in this county. You're defending power merchants and people stuck in a 1990s mindset I'm afraid. Cahir O'Kane's article makes reference to specific incidents unlike the vague county board statement and overall radio silence. These incidents either happened or they didn't. If they happened as par the article, then the county board as a whole should stand down. Some of the insinuations around press silencing are deeply worrying. They're in line with the omertà-style managerial appointment process which appointed Carr after an eternity. It's becoming very clear that plenty in the county board and a few other ego merchants who pull the strings are tampering with the progress of Donegal football and footballers. This, overall, is the heart of the issue and it's very disheartening. It's sad that the county board resembles a political party rather than a forward looking sporting organisation but here we are. I hope Croke Park investigate." 100 per cent. Some of the posts on here are beyond embarrassing, as if the article may be speculation. It's clearly not. The same lads posting nonsense here are the same ones who won't comment on the email the county board sent out to reporters. It's a strange one. TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8384 - 11/03/2023 20:20:36 2463434 Link
Why did Donegal gaa host a coaching conference yesterday with the subject of 'player pathway' at a time when the academy is in ruins and there is no player pathway in this county. Seems a completely ridiculous thing to do. greenfan (Donegal) - Posts: 633 - 12/03/2023 11:30:14 2463471 Link
Didnt look to be many at it. neutral (None) - Posts: 358 - 12/03/2023 12:38:41 2463478 Link
Replying To greenfan: "Why did Donegal gaa host a coaching conference yesterday with the subject of 'player pathway' at a time when the academy is in ruins and there is no player pathway in this county. Seems a completely ridiculous thing to do." Because the have brass necks. SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 777 - 12/03/2023 13:12:56 2463486 Link
Replying To neutral: "Didnt look to be many at it." It is amazing though and it is a truly Irish issue, people get asked to set stuff up and to then work away, then the penny drops and people start panicking about costs and this so called new fangled idea of "Governance", ie being managed. It is the reason our public services are a mess, nobody wants to be managed, then we have individuals who are promoted above their ability trying to rein people in and make a bigger mess of it. Apparently we aren't the only county with issues, here are a few examples, Galway (sorted apparently after some lads bought a big field at the height of the boom for hurling and landed them with a big debt that was difficult to service), Offaly (O'Connor park and Tullamore GAA fighting with the county board about ownership), Cork (Parc Ui Choimh overspend and player strikes), Antrim (Casement park issue), Mayo (millions owed on a stand and now they have Croke park overseeing their finances and failure to deliver their own COE at Lough Lannagh, essentially because of the debt at McHale park, Castlebar and Tim O'Leary from the supporter foundation promising money and then not giving it until they had oversight or something as he had concerns and they had given almost 500k previously). You see it is not just Donegal GAA like some would like to present it here. County boards and committee members are essentially good people but they are also amateurs trying their best to run a company that has outgrown them. It isn't really anyones fault, it just happened, but it is solvable. We have the COE, we have the coaches, it is now important to get the right people talking and in place and people will have to work together post the reconciliation. We need a review and an open and transparent conversation by Donegal people, with Donegal people and for Donegal people. Ulsterchamps72 (Donegal) - Posts: 105 - 12/03/2023 14:12:48 2463511 Link
Replying To Ulsterchamps72: "It is amazing though and it is a truly Irish issue, people get asked to set stuff up and to then work away, then the penny drops and people start panicking about costs and this so called new fangled idea of "Governance", ie being managed. It is the reason our public services are a mess, nobody wants to be managed, then we have individuals who are promoted above their ability trying to rein people in and make a bigger mess of it. Apparently we aren't the only county with issues, here are a few examples, Galway (sorted apparently after some lads bought a big field at the height of the boom for hurling and landed them with a big debt that was difficult to service), Offaly (O'Connor park and Tullamore GAA fighting with the county board about ownership), Cork (Parc Ui Choimh overspend and player strikes), Antrim (Casement park issue), Mayo (millions owed on a stand and now they have Croke park overseeing their finances and failure to deliver their own COE at Lough Lannagh, essentially because of the debt at McHale park, Castlebar and Tim O'Leary from the supporter foundation promising money and then not giving it until they had oversight or something as he had concerns and they had given almost 500k previously). You see it is not just Donegal GAA like some would like to present it here. County boards and committee members are essentially good people but they are also amateurs trying their best to run a company that has outgrown them. It isn't really anyones fault, it just happened, but it is solvable. We have the COE, we have the coaches, it is now important to get the right people talking and in place and people will have to work together post the reconciliation. We need a review and an open and transparent conversation by Donegal people, with Donegal people and for Donegal people." I don't think anyone on here suggested that we are the only county with such issues. I would also add that the failure of others in no way excuses the failures at home. That said, I do agree that it is not necessarily the fault of the individual board members, and that the games evolution and the remit, responsibilities and skillset now required of the board, have outgrown their capabilities. The question is, are they big enough to acknowledge it? Or will they cling to power at all costs, to the detriment of our future. ninety-two (Donegal) - Posts: 27 - 12/03/2023 14:48:38 2463521 Link
Replying To Tyrion: "Put a couple of post up on this but can't seem to get them over the line." Hi Tyrion. You must have been hitting hard. AudiMan (Donegal) - Posts: 683 - 12/03/2023 15:38:21 2463532 Link
Replying To neutral: "Didnt look to be many at it." Hi neutral: from the photos theres 1 man sleeping AudiMan (Donegal) - Posts: 683 - 12/03/2023 15:39:53 2463533 Link
Replying To ninety-two: "You seem eager to blame anyone other than the CB. Is it really that hard to conceive that they have made this mess. Granted there is undoubtedly bits and pieces conveniently omitted from the article, but the CB's candidness certainly suggests quite a lot of the wrongdoing was on their part. From the outside, it certainly appears that a lack of governance, planning and preparation in setting up the academy are at the core of this. If they threw Lacey in to the position and left him to it, without carefully preparing the structures beforehand, or at the very least alongside Karl, then they are to blame, not Karl. That combined with a few sensitive ego's, more concerned with self preservation than the betterment of football in Donegal, have us where we are. I would love to see a complete overhaul, with positions filled by progressive, forward thinking candidates. Unfortunately, in this country, it seems that no matter how much of a mess those in power make of it, they can simply ride it out without any accountability. Which is what will happen." Welcome to Hoganstand new poster, or should we call you The Flaker in disguise!!!!! Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1340 - 13/03/2023 09:03:26 2463647 Link
Replying To ryan: "Jim McGuinness has gone for the Donegal job 4 times and has only gotten it once. Let that sink in ladies and gentlemen." In fairness to the CB back then, Jim had a reputation for being a wild party animal and was still relatively unproven in comparison to others. I'm a diehard believer in Jim McGuinness these days, but I think we could forgive them for being a little reluctant back then to hand over the reigns to a party animal with a vision. It quickly became obvious from his work with the U21's that there was substance there and he could work wonders. Now I'm not a County Board fan, they have made some terrible decisions over the years, remember they also overlooked Martin McHugh back in the mid-90's, which I believe really hurt Donegal football at the time. And there were other debacles in the mid-late 2000's, where I was scratching my head over the years at how some of these getting nominated or elected to positions of power. I just have been cautious to weigh-in on the Academy debate with opinions, as I didn't have links to either side and I couldn't be sure on the accuracy of stories that were emerging. Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1340 - 13/03/2023 09:17:05 2463648 Link
Replying To Commodore: "Welcome to Hoganstand new poster, or should we call you The Flaker in disguise!!!!!" Many thanks, and no, you should not call me The Flaker. Although I certainly found myself agreeing with his take on things, so I can see why you might think that. First time on here, been following the forum for a few weeks. The academy issue has everyone concerned about the status quo. ninety-two (Donegal) - Posts: 27 - 13/03/2023 09:42:26 2463650 Link