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I think everyone needs to cool it talking about relegation battles already.. Teams will beat eachother outside of our games as well. We're not alone in being in transition and inconsistent. A win in Clones would be a massive boost to our chances of staying up obviously but not the end of the road if we lose it either. Tyrone have Galway and Mayo away up next. Roscommon are playing Armagh and then Monaghan away. Who knows with how they're going maybe they'll be home and hosed by the time we roll into Dr Hyde Park and it'll be a handy 2 points for us. Kerry have Mayo and Armagh. It's not as if losing to Monaghan means we'll be stranded at the bottom of the table miles from everyone.
CCFabu (Donegal) - Posts: 61 - 07/02/2023 11:40:31
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Replying To CCFabu: "I think everyone needs to cool it talking about relegation battles already.. Teams will beat eachother outside of our games as well. We're not alone in being in transition and inconsistent. A win in Clones would be a massive boost to our chances of staying up obviously but not the end of the road if we lose it either. Tyrone have Galway and Mayo away up next. Roscommon are playing Armagh and then Monaghan away. Who knows with how they're going maybe they'll be home and hosed by the time we roll into Dr Hyde Park and it'll be a handy 2 points for us. Kerry have Mayo and Armagh. It's not as if losing to Monaghan means we'll be stranded at the bottom of the table miles from everyone." Well I think if you look at the remaining fixtures:
- Monaghan (a)
- Galway (h) - Letterkenny
- Armagh (a)
- Mayo (h)
- Roscommon (a)
On paper at least, I would contend that Monaghan is the most "winnable". But games aren't won or lost on paper and you're right that given the very competitive nature of the league teams will take points off one another. However, if we did lose to Monaghan I think we would really be up against it, as there would be increased pressure on a young team to deliver results in the remaining games. Who knows though - the sink or swim scenario could be the making of them. Lets see how it pans out.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 8399 - 07/02/2023 13:42:32
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Replying To TheRock2121: "Mother of god. He's the best keeper in the country. It's not his fault teams retreat v him.." He's not the best keeper in the country. He's a good keeper but that's just delusional.
He's a great shot stopper but there's more to being a keeper than that. The main point I was trying to make is that his decision making under pressure is worrisome, and he's not good enough in possession to be allowed to play in the same way as Rafferty, Morgan et al.
I didn't say its his fault that teams retreat against him. If you bothered to read the post at all, what I'm trying to do is raise a debate other whether his strengths (kickouts) are a net positive over his weaknesses (concentration, ability to play out from the back) in the most important matches. In fact, my main point was that against top teams they DON'T retreat from his kickout, and that's where we start to see his weaknesses manifest when we are being pressed...
I didn't make a judgement either for or against dropping him. I'm only trying to get a conversation going instead of the usual muck flinging that occurs in here.
papa_pump (Donegal) - Posts: 71 - 07/02/2023 13:42:33
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Does anybody know if Niall O'Donnell is in rehab with the panel or has he opted out this year.Paddy Carr said that Shane was concentrating on Sigerson and not with the aquad but did say that could change.
gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 926 - 07/02/2023 13:45:48
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Replying To papa_pump: "He's not the best keeper in the country. He's a good keeper but that's just delusional.
He's a great shot stopper but there's more to being a keeper than that. The main point I was trying to make is that his decision making under pressure is worrisome, and he's not good enough in possession to be allowed to play in the same way as Rafferty, Morgan et al.
I didn't say its his fault that teams retreat against him. If you bothered to read the post at all, what I'm trying to do is raise a debate other whether his strengths (kickouts) are a net positive over his weaknesses (concentration, ability to play out from the back) in the most important matches. In fact, my main point was that against top teams they DON'T retreat from his kickout, and that's where we start to see his weaknesses manifest when we are being pressed...
I didn't make a judgement either for or against dropping him. I'm only trying to get a conversation going instead of the usual muck flinging that occurs in here." He is a brilliant shot stopper and brilliant at finding his man with his laser kickouts but I agree that he is not a good enough footballer to be taking too many chances out the field and he is not great under high balls.So you have to weigh up the good with the bad.
gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 926 - 07/02/2023 13:53:14
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He has a great long kick out, hi short ones can be dodgy at times, seemes to kick to a player not ready for it and when he comes out the field his hand passing gives the supporters a few nerves. A good shot stopper also but dodgy under the high ball, but still the best in the county by a long way.
jacktheboy (Donegal) - Posts: 323 - 07/02/2023 14:03:58
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I have to admit I'm a bit old school when it comes to goal keepers. In my opinion, if they were good enough footballers to be playing out the field for their county then they would be. I look at Beggan going up the field for Monaghan and other than creating an extra man at times he doesn't offer much. In fact, he slows the play down far too often.
I think Patton needs to concentrate on the basics. We know his kickouts and shot stopping are excellent. But he does have issues under a high ball - I think he needs to work on that aspect of his game moreso than what he can offer trying to develop play from the back. Oh and get working on free-kick taking duty as well. That looks like it might become an unwanted issue for us now that Murphy has gone.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 8399 - 07/02/2023 14:39:37
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Replying To papa_pump: "He's not the best keeper in the country. He's a good keeper but that's just delusional.
He's a great shot stopper but there's more to being a keeper than that. The main point I was trying to make is that his decision making under pressure is worrisome, and he's not good enough in possession to be allowed to play in the same way as Rafferty, Morgan et al.
I didn't say its his fault that teams retreat against him. If you bothered to read the post at all, what I'm trying to do is raise a debate other whether his strengths (kickouts) are a net positive over his weaknesses (concentration, ability to play out from the back) in the most important matches. In fact, my main point was that against top teams they DON'T retreat from his kickout, and that's where we start to see his weaknesses manifest when we are being pressed...
I didn't make a judgement either for or against dropping him. I'm only trying to get a conversation going instead of the usual muck flinging that occurs in here." No harm meant. Still think he's the best about. He's suspect under the high ball indeed but If he manages to iron that out.. also don't think he could play the Rafferty/Beggan role, well as advanced as they play anyway. Have no issue with him playing as a plus one from our own kick outs to get the ball away. Just on another note , A lot of so called "mistakes "he made weren't his fault. The Armagh game last year , both times two of our defenders dropped the ball after his precise pass, now it could be argued why did he go short but it was obviously a clear tactical plan.
Even the goal we conceded v Kerry this year I wouldn't blame. It was an awful pass to MC Cole from Curran who put MC Cole in bother. On a side note Curran seems to be going well. Good to see.
TheRock2121 (Donegal) - Posts: 934 - 07/02/2023 15:57:48
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Replying To SouthOfTheGap: "Jesus, where do you start with that performance? Conor O'Donnell is the only man who could be happy with his performance.
We didn't lay a glove on Tyrone. How many times did they sidestep us and break through without being tackled?
On the other hand, they physically stopped all of our attacks at source. They got a hand, and mostly two hands on us every time.
And it was our experienced players who performed below the required level; McCole, Ward, Hughie, and midfield was wiped out. Maybe they were left exposed by those further out the field.
Management were very slow to make any changes, when it was clear, even from a very early stage, that we were away off the pace.
Our game in 2 weeks time against Monaghan is now a real 4 pointer. They've had 2 disappointing results, so expect a kick back from them." O'Donnell was good, but our corner-back kept the best forward in Ulster scoreless from play.
SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 278 - 07/02/2023 16:15:13
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Replying To papa_pump: "He's not the best keeper in the country. He's a good keeper but that's just delusional.
He's a great shot stopper but there's more to being a keeper than that. The main point I was trying to make is that his decision making under pressure is worrisome, and he's not good enough in possession to be allowed to play in the same way as Rafferty, Morgan et al.
I didn't say its his fault that teams retreat against him. If you bothered to read the post at all, what I'm trying to do is raise a debate other whether his strengths (kickouts) are a net positive over his weaknesses (concentration, ability to play out from the back) in the most important matches. In fact, my main point was that against top teams they DON'T retreat from his kickout, and that's where we start to see his weaknesses manifest when we are being pressed...
I didn't make a judgement either for or against dropping him. I'm only trying to get a conversation going instead of the usual muck flinging that occurs in here." Name the keepers in the county that are better.
themaddog (Wicklow) - Posts: 116 - 07/02/2023 18:47:53
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Replying To SurelyToGod: "O'Donnell was good, but our corner-back kept the best forward in Ulster scoreless from play." Looks like a proper defender like the way defenders used to be. I like the way he is all over the forward as he's going for the ball. Too many of our other 'defenders' are usually miles off the forward when he takes possession.
greenfan (Donegal) - Posts: 246 - 07/02/2023 20:28:30
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Slightly worrying performance? Yes. End of the world? No, not in my opinion.
Look we were coming off a high against Kerry as the odds were completely stacked against us and we seemed, especially internally within the team to have that "nobody believes in us" mentality and when we did get a great win, it seemed to mean a lot to everyone involved (Maybe a little too much).
I think it's important, especially in February, not to get too high or too low based on a win or loss when we are under new management and experimenting with players due to injuries to 4 or 5 of our most experienced and important players.
Tyrone were always going to feel that it was more of a must win for them than we for us, after the season they had last year, and losing against Roscommon in the first game who they would have seen as one of the favourites for relegation (although they look to be proving that notion wrong).
I do agree that the performance looked leggy but will reserve on passing judgement until after the Monaghan game as it could just be the case that it is the swings and roundabouts of having a lot of new young lads in the team, especially when we looked well on the pace the week before.
Hoping the two week break will bring back the likes of Langan, Thompson, Ban, Ryan McHugh and Mogan and really test what a more seasoned team will look like. (Side note - would love to see Langan tried inside as I do feel we're missing a target man in there).
donegalforsam11 (Donegal) - Posts: 96 - 08/02/2023 09:09:17
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Replying To Lockjaw: "I have to admit I'm a bit old school when it comes to goal keepers. In my opinion, if they were good enough footballers to be playing out the field for their county then they would be. I look at Beggan going up the field for Monaghan and other than creating an extra man at times he doesn't offer much. In fact, he slows the play down far too often.
I think Patton needs to concentrate on the basics. We know his kickouts and shot stopping are excellent. But he does have issues under a high ball - I think he needs to work on that aspect of his game moreso than what he can offer trying to develop play from the back. Oh and get working on free-kick taking duty as well. That looks like it might become an unwanted issue for us now that Murphy has gone." Bit like the old joke about what do you call someone who hangs around with a group of musicians? The drummer …
There are plenty of outfield players you'd not want to see in goals either though! I have seen goalkeepers who were as good as any other outfield player early on, but they were just better than everybody else at stopping shots, so they tend to be put into that role. In other words, very often, perfectly good outfield players, just not as bad at shot-stopping as the rest of us ...
points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet (Tyrone) - Posts: 125 - 08/02/2023 09:56:24
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So Donegal have made a decision to remain at uneven age grades. They said it would be impossible to run the competitions due to a directive from Croke park. How are other counties going to organise their competitions that have moved back to even age grades? Would be interested to hear how other counties have found a solution.
ryan (Donegal) - Posts: 626 - 08/02/2023 12:05:22
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Karl Lacey's decision to step away from his Academy Director role is very troubling news. There seems to be a bit of political manoeuvring going on at the minute. I'm not familiar with all the details but losing the expertise of one of our most decorated players ever cannot be a good thing.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 8399 - 08/02/2023 13:30:57
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Karl Lacey's decision to step away from his Academy Director role is very troubling news. There seems to be a bit of political manoeuvring going on at the minute. I'm not familiar with all the details but losing the expertise of one of our most decorated players ever cannot be a good thing." There will be a massive reshuffle at the end of this year if not before then. The one person causing a lot of the issues was not even present at the county board meeting last night to take questions. Says it all really.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7483 - 08/02/2023 14:08:34
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Karl Lacey's decision to step away from his Academy Director role is very troubling news. There seems to be a bit of political manoeuvring going on at the minute. I'm not familiar with all the details but losing the expertise of one of our most decorated players ever cannot be a good thing." Was Lacey supposed to be in Kavanagh's backroom team.
gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 926 - 08/02/2023 14:10:40
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Replying To TheFlaker: "There will be a massive reshuffle at the end of this year if not before then. The one person causing a lot of the issues was not even present at the county board meeting last night to take questions. Says it all really." Who is it?
peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 471 - 08/02/2023 14:28:39
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Replying To peiledoir20: "Who is it?" The head coaching officer. He is also some part of Carrs backroom team. A role created by the county board. These lads haven't a notion.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7483 - 08/02/2023 14:46:58
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It doesn't matter much which players are returning if we continue to employ the same playing 'style' that plagued the latter stages of the Bonner era.
I thought we had started a new chapter after the Kerry game where some kick passing and a more direct style were evident but the Tyrone game has seen a return to our worst habits as a team:
- lateral hand passing to players standing still
- hard running into the wings only to turn around and hand pass off to a man surrounded
- putting a big man in at full forward for 10 mins and not kicking any balls into him
I was and am still hopeful that Paddy Carr and co. can see this and change course.
It doesn't have to be gung-ho but I think we all would like to see some quicker ball and a bit of purpose to our attack.
At the minute it looks like the players have no idea what to do when moving out of defence with the ball.
It is so easy to defend against and unwatchable for spectators.
Far too many players that are great on paper play the game in 2nd gear in a Donegal shirt because of this.
Special K (Louth) - Posts: 114 - 08/02/2023 15:47:21
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