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Replying To Scenicparish: "Not many other defenders on bench with Ryan & Owen Ban injured. Jack injured now as well
Mogan obviously training well as he looked the part when he came on." U really think peader mogan is a defender Rory ?????
eunans4ever (Donegal) - Posts: 1595 - 05/02/2023 19:40:40
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Replying To SouthOfTheGap: "Jesus, where do you start with that performance? Conor O'Donnell is the only man who could be happy with his performance.
We didn't lay a glove on Tyrone. How many times did they sidestep us and break through without being tackled?
On the other hand, they physically stopped all of our attacks at source. They got a hand, and mostly two hands on us every time.
And it was our experienced players who performed below the required level; McCole, Ward, Hughie, and midfield was wiped out. Maybe they were left exposed by those further out the field.
Management were very slow to make any changes, when it was clear, even from a very early stage, that we were away off the pace.
Our game in 2 weeks time against Monaghan is now a real 4 pointer. They've had 2 disappointing results, so expect a kick back from them." Can't disagree with a word of this. All spot on. Didn't ask any questions of Tyrone at all, a muted contest. Bereft of an attacking plan which is an ongoing theme for Donegal in recent years. Slow, predictable and just beaten all over the field in battles. To be fair, a lot of men to still come in and early days but the good vibes from last weekend have been blown away today. The younger men will have better days. Some senior established players looked miles off it in comparison to Tyrone.
Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1321 - 05/02/2023 20:40:02
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Tough day at the office today, but we just have to learn from it and move on. We weren't the best team in the country after last weeks win and we're not the worst after today's defeat.
Hopefully get a few more bodies back for the game in Clones. Having watched their game in Kerry back we have absolutely nothing to fear. They are in transition much like ourselves.
A win would be huge.
peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 809 - 05/02/2023 20:54:54
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Replying To eunans4ever: "U really think peader mogan is a defender Rory ?????" I dont know who " Rory " is. Peadar is a brilliant attacking half back. If we have 2 better wing have backs on the panel, I'd like to know who they are?
Scenicparish (Donegal) - Posts: 290 - 05/02/2023 21:01:06
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Replying To Scenicparish: "I dont know who " Rory " is. Peadar is a brilliant attacking half back. If we have 2 better wing have backs on the panel, I'd like to know who they are?" I have a solution just blame bonner anyway.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2412 - 05/02/2023 21:55:29
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Worst Donegal display in ages got apprehension what lies ahead.Monaghan in Clones whoever loses its Div 2 imo.What does AOR do sitting in the back of the stand.At one stage i thought he had dozed off so poor was the fare on view.
neutral (None) - Posts: 358 - 06/02/2023 08:31:24
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Back to earth with bang, I had expected Kerry to hockey this team last week and was both shocked and delighted that we won, but reality has now set in. Yesterday a relatively inexperienced Donegal team were playing a Tyrone team full of recent All Ireland winners, most of whom have been on the scene for 6-8 years.
Defensively I thought we were fine, the real origins of our issues was in the front six, which ironically was an issue last season too. Of course having the likes of Niall O'Donnell, Michael Langan, Ciaran Thompson, Shane O'Donnell and Oisin Gallen return would be huge, but I thought a few of those players seemed off the boil last year. However if we have McGonigle, McGee, Langan, Thompson and Gallen all playing, it opens up so many high fielding targets for Shaun Patton and poses a lot of hard questions for any opposing side.
I genuinely believe that at full strength we have a panel of players capable of challenging for an All Ireland, but I still think we are carrying dead wood players, who aren't good enough either through lack of pace or whatever. We also have been tactically too predictable for the last few seasons, we seem incapable of providing tactical challenges that can off-balance the opposition.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1121 - 06/02/2023 08:54:03
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Replying To Scenicparish: "I dont know who " Rory " is. Peadar is a brilliant attacking half back. If we have 2 better wing have backs on the panel, I'd like to know who they are?" Attacking yes, but defensively no. One of Donegal's key failings under Declan Bonner was his failure to accept or understand that playing small pacey attacking wing backs doesn't work well against every team.
In some games we need big strong defensive wing backs and in other games or perhaps in parts of games the small pacey attacking wing back is great. When you only every play small attacking pacey wing backs, the top teams like Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Galway, Tyrone etc in recent years see us as predictable and stopped us at source.
Peadar Mogan is a superb player, but needs to be used creatively as part of a squad, which needs to be less predictable.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1121 - 06/02/2023 09:01:11
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Replying To rorysboys: "I have a solution just blame bonner anyway." What's Bonner got to do with it ? Peadar has played in the half back line for St Nauls for years. Brilliant attacking half back
Scenicparish (Donegal) - Posts: 290 - 06/02/2023 09:35:26
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I wonder if it's time to explore a new man between the sticks instead of Patton for the league campaign. Or stick with him and just redefine his duties.
To Patton's credit the only man I'd have in the same league as him for kickouts is Beggan. However, when we play top teams one of two things happen. 1) Their fielding isn't as good as ours, so they concede the kickouts to us and head straight back to pack the lines or 2) the top teams know they can match or even better our fielding, so won't fear our kickouts and go head to head.
Scenario 1 is optimal, as it gives us discretion to proceed how we want, and of course the natural progression from this is safe hand passing possession play around midfield. Scenario 2 is what's killing us.
When teams don't concede the kickout, Patton goes short. While his long kickout form is immaculate, he looks so awkward when he's flicking it out to his full back line. Twice against Armagh last year and again against Kerry last week, we were caught out for goals by this very situation (in Patton's defence it's not all about him, McCole and Ward etc have a role to play also).
He's a good shot stopper, but he's not the biggest lad. That's not the be all and end all, Stephen Cluxton wasn't a giant. However I have distinct memories of Patton being bullied under the high ball.
This last point is a more general point about roaming goalkeepers but I genuinely do think they're a disaster waiting to happen. It's one thing when Morgan, Beggan or Rafferty come out with the ball as they are outfielders for their clubs. Patton has a soccer background, he doesn't have the same skills in that department as those 3 lads. And even if he did, all 3 have been caught out by their roaming. Rafferty very lucky yesterday that O'Connor couldn't convert, and Morgan was lobbed below in Kerry last year.
Closing remark: I'm not in any sense of the word trying to lay into Patton here. He's a good player and he has a role to play for Donegal. I'm only saying when we look at shortcomings in our performances since he's come in, it's worth considering whether we should adapt his role to be a more conservative one, or have a look at whether there might be another solution in that position.
papa_pump (Donegal) - Posts: 71 - 06/02/2023 11:28:12
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Hugely disappointing display. Great to see a big donegal support. But I've been saying all along we need all our players back. The Monaghan game is huge whoever loses is almost guaranteed relegation. Of the new lads mark Curran was good he looks the part. As predicted Tyrone wernt going to gave Mc colgan and young lads much room. We were cleaned out in midfield. The five minute period before half time where Morgan and the Tyrone defender s played keep ball was hugely frustrating. The Tyrone bench were telling them to keep ball yet donegal never laid a hand on them.. anyway Conor o donnell was good again and hopefully we can lift it for Monaghan..
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2412 - 06/02/2023 11:55:20
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Very disappointing performance, what I was so impressed with against Kerry in terms of the fight shown was missing there on Sunday. Young teams will have big swings in performance like this but was disappointed in the more experienced heads and also the lack of reaction from the sideline as the match was getting away from us.
Just a match to park and forget about, Tyrone were always going to be tough in their own back yard after they were beat the week before as well. But it was a rotten game and really not much to take from it, leave it at that and move on to the Monaghan match.
CCFabu (Donegal) - Posts: 97 - 06/02/2023 12:25:28
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I went to the game last weekend with very little hope and came away buzzing, went to the game yesterday full of expectation and came away deflated, the joys of following Donegal. In a way it sums us up over the past few years, very inconsistent. I'm not worried about the defeat, just the manner of it, we looked really leggy from the start. Even with the wind advantage we retreated into defence from the word go, why not be a bit more positive.
We are really low on numbers at the moment with so many of our experienced players out injured. We really only had Peadar Mogan on the bench with proven pedigree so don't think its fair to blame the management for not making changes. Conor O'Donnell and Daire O'Baoil were very good, McMenamin looks the part at centre half back. We were absolutely cleaned out at midfield, so was difficult for the forwards to get much ball. Normally we are good around the middle so not too worried about that, just an off day.
As other posters have mentioned, we have real issues trying to get our full forward line into the game. With Michael Murphy having played out the field for most of the last 10 years, we haven't played with a focal point at full forward and I think we are missing a trick. Is it time to try to get a target man in there with Paddy and Jamie feeding off him? Could Oisin Gallen play that role? Maybe even Michael Langan. We have become far too predictable in our attacking play. We move the ball through the hands and by the time we get to the opposition half the forwards are bottled up.
I don't think we should be too pessimistic about yesterday, we do tend to throw in those kind of performance now and again during the league - especially away from home. The Monaghan game will be crucial, win that and we have a great chance of staying in div one. Finally was great to see a large Donegal support.
Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1876 - 06/02/2023 18:34:31
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Replying To rorysboys: "Hugely disappointing display. Great to see a big donegal support. But I've been saying all along we need all our players back. The Monaghan game is huge whoever loses is almost guaranteed relegation. Of the new lads mark Curran was good he looks the part. As predicted Tyrone wernt going to gave Mc colgan and young lads much room. We were cleaned out in midfield. The five minute period before half time where Morgan and the Tyrone defender s played keep ball was hugely frustrating. The Tyrone bench were telling them to keep ball yet donegal never laid a hand on them.. anyway Conor o donnell was good again and hopefully we can lift it for Monaghan.." I agree, we badly need Thompson, Langan & Eoin Ban back to help out the younger players. The Monaghan match looking like a relegation battle at this stage.
Scenicparish (Donegal) - Posts: 290 - 06/02/2023 19:03:31
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Replying To Commodore: "Back to earth with bang, I had expected Kerry to hockey this team last week and was both shocked and delighted that we won, but reality has now set in. Yesterday a relatively inexperienced Donegal team were playing a Tyrone team full of recent All Ireland winners, most of whom have been on the scene for 6-8 years.
Defensively I thought we were fine, the real origins of our issues was in the front six, which ironically was an issue last season too. Of course having the likes of Niall O'Donnell, Michael Langan, Ciaran Thompson, Shane O'Donnell and Oisin Gallen return would be huge, but I thought a few of those players seemed off the boil last year. However if we have McGonigle, McGee, Langan, Thompson and Gallen all playing, it opens up so many high fielding targets for Shaun Patton and poses a lot of hard questions for any opposing side.
I genuinely believe that at full strength we have a panel of players capable of challenging for an All Ireland, but I still think we are carrying dead wood players, who aren't good enough either through lack of pace or whatever. We also have been tactically too predictable for the last few seasons, we seem incapable of providing tactical challenges that can off-balance the opposition." We are not All Ireland contenders or won't be for a while.. don't crucify me for telling the truth.. we have to stay in the first division it's imperative. We have players to come back but they need games with c ship not far away. Great to see mogan back but the two o donnells are huge losses two talented forwards.. all the players to come back are all injury prone so with games coming thick and fast I wudnt be Banking on having them all available for c ship. It's time we lessened expectations..
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2412 - 06/02/2023 19:20:29
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Replying To papa_pump: "I wonder if it's time to explore a new man between the sticks instead of Patton for the league campaign. Or stick with him and just redefine his duties.
To Patton's credit the only man I'd have in the same league as him for kickouts is Beggan. However, when we play top teams one of two things happen. 1) Their fielding isn't as good as ours, so they concede the kickouts to us and head straight back to pack the lines or 2) the top teams know they can match or even better our fielding, so won't fear our kickouts and go head to head.
Scenario 1 is optimal, as it gives us discretion to proceed how we want, and of course the natural progression from this is safe hand passing possession play around midfield. Scenario 2 is what's killing us.
When teams don't concede the kickout, Patton goes short. While his long kickout form is immaculate, he looks so awkward when he's flicking it out to his full back line. Twice against Armagh last year and again against Kerry last week, we were caught out for goals by this very situation (in Patton's defence it's not all about him, McCole and Ward etc have a role to play also).
He's a good shot stopper, but he's not the biggest lad. That's not the be all and end all, Stephen Cluxton wasn't a giant. However I have distinct memories of Patton being bullied under the high ball.
This last point is a more general point about roaming goalkeepers but I genuinely do think they're a disaster waiting to happen. It's one thing when Morgan, Beggan or Rafferty come out with the ball as they are outfielders for their clubs. Patton has a soccer background, he doesn't have the same skills in that department as those 3 lads. And even if he did, all 3 have been caught out by their roaming. Rafferty very lucky yesterday that O'Connor couldn't convert, and Morgan was lobbed below in Kerry last year.
Closing remark: I'm not in any sense of the word trying to lay into Patton here. He's a good player and he has a role to play for Donegal. I'm only saying when we look at shortcomings in our performances since he's come in, it's worth considering whether we should adapt his role to be a more conservative one, or have a look at whether there might be another solution in that position." Patton should definitely stay in goals and stop roaming. He seems to lose concentration and has a habit of giving sloppy handpasses to team mates. He's as good as anyone in the country with his kick outs. Mulreany seems to be number 2 now, dont know much about him. I think Patton needs a strong 2nd choice keeper that will push him so he doesn't get complacent.
greenfan (Donegal) - Posts: 474 - 06/02/2023 19:39:51
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Not too worried bout yesterday, tempo was off from the start and boys just couldn't lift it, looked to have lead in their legs.positives is were blooding a few young lads who will stand to us down the Rd. Negative is hughs role is simply not working it's one of the reasons morgan and his defence could mess about near the end of the first half because hugh was lying back in defence himself, was more disappointed when in the second half young Curran was darting up the wing and Hugh called for the ball off him and then kicked it back to patton. Wonder what's the story with gallen could of done with him yesterday 2 front lads were a bit static at times. Need to introduce some of our experienced lads back soon and I believe weil survive.
Tyrion (Donegal) - Posts: 160 - 06/02/2023 20:01:56
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Replying To papa_pump: "I wonder if it's time to explore a new man between the sticks instead of Patton for the league campaign. Or stick with him and just redefine his duties.
To Patton's credit the only man I'd have in the same league as him for kickouts is Beggan. However, when we play top teams one of two things happen. 1) Their fielding isn't as good as ours, so they concede the kickouts to us and head straight back to pack the lines or 2) the top teams know they can match or even better our fielding, so won't fear our kickouts and go head to head.
Scenario 1 is optimal, as it gives us discretion to proceed how we want, and of course the natural progression from this is safe hand passing possession play around midfield. Scenario 2 is what's killing us.
When teams don't concede the kickout, Patton goes short. While his long kickout form is immaculate, he looks so awkward when he's flicking it out to his full back line. Twice against Armagh last year and again against Kerry last week, we were caught out for goals by this very situation (in Patton's defence it's not all about him, McCole and Ward etc have a role to play also).
He's a good shot stopper, but he's not the biggest lad. That's not the be all and end all, Stephen Cluxton wasn't a giant. However I have distinct memories of Patton being bullied under the high ball.
This last point is a more general point about roaming goalkeepers but I genuinely do think they're a disaster waiting to happen. It's one thing when Morgan, Beggan or Rafferty come out with the ball as they are outfielders for their clubs. Patton has a soccer background, he doesn't have the same skills in that department as those 3 lads. And even if he did, all 3 have been caught out by their roaming. Rafferty very lucky yesterday that O'Connor couldn't convert, and Morgan was lobbed below in Kerry last year.
Closing remark: I'm not in any sense of the word trying to lay into Patton here. He's a good player and he has a role to play for Donegal. I'm only saying when we look at shortcomings in our performances since he's come in, it's worth considering whether we should adapt his role to be a more conservative one, or have a look at whether there might be another solution in that position." Mother of god. He's the best keeper in the country. It's not his fault teams retreat v him..
TheRock2121 (Donegal) - Posts: 1142 - 06/02/2023 20:57:40
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A day to forget. I'd say Gough and his team of officials were half expecting a tough day at the office but in reality it couldn't have been easier for them given the subdued nature of the game. I think Tyrone probably identified this as a must win game for them, as they lost to Roscommon last weekend and have Galway and Mayo away up next. But still and all, our performance was poor and the result never looked in doubt.
The Monaghan match is huge. They looked very average against Kerry but I'm sure they'll have no fear of us, especially at home. I really think we need to beat them so it will be interesting to see if we have few more seasoned players back in two weeks time. Everyone, myself included was assuming that Roscommon away at the end is winnable but the way they're going that will not be easy. No game is easy really, I think 6 or possibly 7 points will needed.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9163 - 07/02/2023 10:56:20
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Replying To Tyrion: "Not too worried bout yesterday, tempo was off from the start and boys just couldn't lift it, looked to have lead in their legs.positives is were blooding a few young lads who will stand to us down the Rd. Negative is hughs role is simply not working it's one of the reasons morgan and his defence could mess about near the end of the first half because hugh was lying back in defence himself, was more disappointed when in the second half young Curran was darting up the wing and Hugh called for the ball off him and then kicked it back to patton. Wonder what's the story with gallen could of done with him yesterday 2 front lads were a bit static at times. Need to introduce some of our experienced lads back soon and I believe weil survive." I know he is coming back after a lay off but I think it was clear even last year that Hugh does not have the mobility to be out around the middle any more especially with games now played at a much higher pace.
He would be best suited at FF. With his size and strength he could cause mayhem, just look at how much bother the often ridiculed Aidan O'Shea caused Armagh on Sunday.
Not harm in trying him there anyway.
peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 809 - 07/02/2023 11:04:36
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