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Karl Lacey for next Donegal manager?

I read Mark McHugh's opinion about pairing Karl Lacey up with Jim McGuinness, which would definitely be interesting.

But the more I thought about it, Karl Lacey has been around and was considered our most influential player for most of the 2003 - 2012 era and has been in the management team with Declan Bonner. He also is heavily involved in the underage structures setup for the last few years and knows that side of it.

Could he be the candidate that nobody really considered?

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 872 - 26/07/2022 10:38:50    2434473

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Replying To Commodore:  "I don't think SAM is beyond us at all, I didn't think Tyrone were all that last year and I also didn't think Kerry were great shakes this year (David Clifford aside), no reason why we can't challenge for the All Ireland."
You could be right. I think if we had everyone available, injury free and playing with confidence and momentum then there's no reason why we can't be right up there in contention. But my problem with the above assumption is that we've been saying that for about the last 5 years and more. We can use ifs and buts all we like, the fact that we haven't even made a semi final since 2014 speaks volumes.

There are many pieces to the jigsaw that constitute a successful team. Players ability being first and foremost, and I think we can all agree that we're not lacking there. But other aspects are also significantly important - mentality, conditioning, resources, avoiding injuries, management, coaching, luck etc. For whatever reason we just haven't been able to land on that sweet spot over the last few years. Time will tell if the new management team will get us any closer.

Financing could be the big issue. Everyone talks about the money and resources at Dublin's disposal and this is true. But you can be sure Kerry Group isn't just supplying butter for the spuds of the Kerry players after training either. Same for Mayo - everyone has heard the stories about their benefactors. Do we have the same financial muscle? Doubtful. It would be great if we could entice the likes of Paddy Tally in to coach our defensive set up for example. One wonders what kid of expenses he must be getting down in Kerry.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 8049 - 26/07/2022 11:03:53    2434479

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Replying To Commodore:  "Karl Lacey for next Donegal manager?

I read Mark McHugh's opinion about pairing Karl Lacey up with Jim McGuinness, which would definitely be interesting.

But the more I thought about it, Karl Lacey has been around and was considered our most influential player for most of the 2003 - 2012 era and has been in the management team with Declan Bonner. He also is heavily involved in the underage structures setup for the last few years and knows that side of it.

Could he be the candidate that nobody really considered?"
Would love to see Lacey there but I doubt it. The man has a young family and heavily involved in underage. I probably see Lacey as a coach more than a manager.. would he be interested maybe. Still hope Mc daid involved in some capacity. Very knowledgeable man.

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 1721 - 26/07/2022 11:05:28    2434480

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I think that one man who should be given consideration for the manager's role is Joe McKelvey. Has guided Donegal to a few All Ireland vocational titles and took Red Hughs to an Ulster Final.

Cic-Saor (Donegal) - Posts: 4 - 26/07/2022 11:13:09    2434485

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Replying To rorysboys:  "Will you ever get it into your head that it takes more than a manager to win an all Ireland. Would we have win an all Ireland without Murphy in 2012 no we wudnt. Would Kerry have beaten Galway without Clifford no they wudnt. Yet you say Kerry win because they have good players. You don't mention Mc Guinness because I accused you of mentioning him in every post previously. Yet what is stopping him being Donegal manager. Answer that. Hope he gets it then we'll see if your predictions come through."
Just for the record Karl Lacey was our best player by far that year and was actually the POTY.

Colm Mc Fadden was out top scorer and our main man up front - pretty sure he was top scorer in the championship overall too.

Murphy is without doubt majestic and was class in the final but played second fiddle to those 2 all year.

We are far from a one man team and Murphy didn't win the all Ireland fir us - the collective did.

eunans4ever (Donegal) - Posts: 1301 - 26/07/2022 11:15:38    2434486

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Replying To Al_Maguire:  "So how did we get nowhere with Michael Murphy under John Joe and yet win the All Ireland in 2012 under Jim McGuiness with practically the same set of players? It took that 'manager' to make that team 'more' than a manager.

For me what is wrong with our current squad is the mentality isn't right

They have the talent - certainly

But we haven't seen their true potential because they don't have that 'we are not going to be defeated' belief and mentality a good manager will instill

Just because a poster is from Glenties doesn't mean he speaks for Jim McGuinness - that's not really a sensible argument is it? Jims reasons for going or not going are his own.

And it's deflecting from any arguments that our previous manager, as likeable as he was, wasn't instilling that win at all costs mentality the team was lacking.

So we curtently don't know if the team aren't good enough - because he didn't get them to that level.

Certainly, they appear to have more potential than any team Jim inherited in 2011."
Exactly my point, you see it in every sport. A top manager make a massive difference to a teams mentality and refusal to accept defeat.
That was why i always believed the outgoing manager was the wrong choice, nothing personal, but he never instilled that mentality in any of his club or county teams he has managed.
In the outgoing managers defence, there are few managers have that charisma to get the best out of a team and follow him.
Mcguinness obviously had that charisma and you seen the results.
Others like Gavin, O'connor also seem to have that charisma that a team will go that extra mile for them.
And even if i am a NC man, does anyone actually believe you would talk a strong willed man like mcguinness into a job, if his focus is somewhere else. I would love him to take the job, and believe he would bring back an energy to the whole county. But can not see it happening.
I try not to reply to that other poster who blames the players, covid, injuries for our lack of success this past few years. As he just doesn't get it, thankfully there are a lot more knowledgeable posters on here that believe we are as good as anyone with the right management.

The keeper (Donegal) - Posts: 566 - 26/07/2022 11:22:43    2434489

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "You could be right. I think if we had everyone available, injury free and playing with confidence and momentum then there's no reason why we can't be right up there in contention. But my problem with the above assumption is that we've been saying that for about the last 5 years and more. We can use ifs and buts all we like, the fact that we haven't even made a semi final since 2014 speaks volumes.

There are many pieces to the jigsaw that constitute a successful team. Players ability being first and foremost, and I think we can all agree that we're not lacking there. But other aspects are also significantly important - mentality, conditioning, resources, avoiding injuries, management, coaching, luck etc. For whatever reason we just haven't been able to land on that sweet spot over the last few years. Time will tell if the new management team will get us any closer.

Financing could be the big issue. Everyone talks about the money and resources at Dublin's disposal and this is true. But you can be sure Kerry Group isn't just supplying butter for the spuds of the Kerry players after training either. Same for Mayo - everyone has heard the stories about their benefactors. Do we have the same financial muscle? Doubtful. It would be great if we could entice the likes of Paddy Tally in to coach our defensive set up for example. One wonders what kid of expenses he must be getting down in Kerry."
To be honest, I felt we had the front 6 and keeper to win the All Ireland in 2019, but felt our back 6 and midfield was unsettled and shakey, and I think some players hadn't developed properly in those problem areas and others maybe weren't operating at a sufficient standard.

Our 2022 team had improved from the 2019 side in many ways, much improved full back line and our midfielders Caolan McGonigle and Jason McGee are finally coming of age. However I still felt our half back line was or Achilles heel, too light weight and unsettled.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 872 - 26/07/2022 11:48:22    2434500

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Replying To The keeper:  "Exactly my point, you see it in every sport. A top manager make a massive difference to a teams mentality and refusal to accept defeat.
That was why i always believed the outgoing manager was the wrong choice, nothing personal, but he never instilled that mentality in any of his club or county teams he has managed.
In the outgoing managers defence, there are few managers have that charisma to get the best out of a team and follow him.
Mcguinness obviously had that charisma and you seen the results.
Others like Gavin, O'connor also seem to have that charisma that a team will go that extra mile for them.
And even if i am a NC man, does anyone actually believe you would talk a strong willed man like mcguinness into a job, if his focus is somewhere else. I would love him to take the job, and believe he would bring back an energy to the whole county. But can not see it happening.
I try not to reply to that other poster who blames the players, covid, injuries for our lack of success this past few years. As he just doesn't get it, thankfully there are a lot more knowledgeable posters on here that believe we are as good as anyone with the right management."
I think the really great manager are paranoid types with a relentless fear of the other top sides getting the better of them, which drives them that extra yard. Jim McGuinness didn't have a big budget, he would spend the autumn and winter analyzing Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone etc preparing detailed notes on how they play and how they behave and what makes them tick.

I remember watching Donegal look very mediocre in the National League in many games under McGuinness, then come Championship they became a very different animal and it was fascinating to witness.

Jim Gavin was similar, albeit with huge financial support behind him and larger pool of players. He leaves no stone unturned, he is relentless, he studies his teams games to death and is never happy in his quest for perfection. And I have to say that his Dublin team were probably the closest thing I have ever seen in terms of perfection.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 872 - 26/07/2022 11:58:15    2434507

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Replying To Al_Maguire:  "So how did we get nowhere with Michael Murphy under John Joe and yet win the All Ireland in 2012 under Jim McGuiness with practically the same set of players? It took that 'manager' to make that team 'more' than a manager.

For me what is wrong with our current squad is the mentality isn't right

They have the talent - certainly

But we haven't seen their true potential because they don't have that 'we are not going to be defeated' belief and mentality a good manager will instill

Just because a poster is from Glenties doesn't mean he speaks for Jim McGuinness - that's not really a sensible argument is it? Jims reasons for going or not going are his own.

And it's deflecting from any arguments that our previous manager, as likeable as he was, wasn't instilling that win at all costs mentality the team was lacking.

So we curtently don't know if the team aren't good enough - because he didn't get them to that level.

Certainly, they appear to have more potential than any team Jim inherited in 2011."
John joe had Murphy when he was 19 or 20 and just starting off his career. Did Clifford win an all Ireland in his first few years..

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 1721 - 26/07/2022 12:21:47    2434520

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Replying To eunans4ever:  "Just for the record Karl Lacey was our best player by far that year and was actually the POTY.

Colm Mc Fadden was out top scorer and our main man up front - pretty sure he was top scorer in the championship overall too.

Murphy is without doubt majestic and was class in the final but played second fiddle to those 2 all year.

We are far from a one man team and Murphy didn't win the all Ireland fir us - the collective did."
To win an all Ireland you need big players and marquee forwards. The defining moment in the 2012 all Ireland final was Murphy early goal.. you can think what you like but Murphy was the difference, yea we had fantastic players like Lacey etc to back him up. But most all Ireland winners have that special player of real brilliance and we had that in Murphy..

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 1721 - 26/07/2022 12:29:20    2434525

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Replying To The keeper:  "Exactly my point, you see it in every sport. A top manager make a massive difference to a teams mentality and refusal to accept defeat.
That was why i always believed the outgoing manager was the wrong choice, nothing personal, but he never instilled that mentality in any of his club or county teams he has managed.
In the outgoing managers defence, there are few managers have that charisma to get the best out of a team and follow him.
Mcguinness obviously had that charisma and you seen the results.
Others like Gavin, O'connor also seem to have that charisma that a team will go that extra mile for them.
And even if i am a NC man, does anyone actually believe you would talk a strong willed man like mcguinness into a job, if his focus is somewhere else. I would love him to take the job, and believe he would bring back an energy to the whole county. But can not see it happening.
I try not to reply to that other poster who blames the players, covid, injuries for our lack of success this past few years. As he just doesn't get it, thankfully there are a lot more knowledgeable posters on here that believe we are as good as anyone with the right management."
Never mentioned covid. Your not a reputable poster you had an agenda with bonner from day one. Now is the time for Jim to take it, he's managing Derry city u 19 so it shouldn't be a big decision. I admire Jim more than anybody and a pure gentleman but if he was reading your posts he's be embarrassed.. you say bonner never instilled a winning mentality in his club or county teams. Is winning a club championship not defeating that comment plus all the championship s he win managing Donegal teams.

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 1721 - 26/07/2022 12:46:13    2434530

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The county board need to show the right level of ambition here. Jim gavin is the best man available. Turn one of the pitches in convoy into a helipad and rent a helicopter for three days or 4 or whatever is required and let jim fly up to manage the team. They'll save money too because Jim can fly himself. He can bring the dublin based players with him as well and they won't have the fatigue of the long car journey.

It's funny the way Jack o'connor is lauded as being the type of winning manager required. Kildare thought he'd do the job for them and I'm sure he wasn't just in it for the love of kildare football. He was competent and nothing more. Got them promoted but also managed them to a completely miserable performance against dublin in the championship. Certainly nothing special and then he jumped ship to greener pastures and now he's a great manager again.
Their defensive maestro paddy tally who clearly has helped kerry this year was also the manager and presumably the defensive maestro of down last year who conceded 2-25 to donegal in the ulster championship.

I do think it was time for a change this year in donegal. I wouldn't want to limit the ambition of the team either. There's plenty talent there and hope they can get the best manager available. There are limits though to who this could be and no matter who it is there are no guarantees.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 661 - 26/07/2022 12:49:33    2434531

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Replying To rorysboys:  "Would love to see Lacey there but I doubt it. The man has a young family and heavily involved in underage. I probably see Lacey as a coach more than a manager.. would he be interested maybe. Still hope Mc daid involved in some capacity. Very knowledgeable man."
A dislike for glenties and Eunans, continually saying we won an all Ireland because of Murphy alone even thou this theory has been tested with managers before and after and now wanting mcdaid who I agree is a great football brain involved. I have put it all together. Hard luck at the weekend getting relegated hope use bounce back as the top division needs use.

marty234 (Donegal) - Posts: 146 - 26/07/2022 13:32:19    2434559

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Replying To Commodore:  "I think the really great manager are paranoid types with a relentless fear of the other top sides getting the better of them, which drives them that extra yard. Jim McGuinness didn't have a big budget, he would spend the autumn and winter analyzing Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone etc preparing detailed notes on how they play and how they behave and what makes them tick.

I remember watching Donegal look very mediocre in the National League in many games under McGuinness, then come Championship they became a very different animal and it was fascinating to witness.

Jim Gavin was similar, albeit with huge financial support behind him and larger pool of players. He leaves no stone unturned, he is relentless, he studies his teams games to death and is never happy in his quest for perfection. And I have to say that his Dublin team were probably the closest thing I have ever seen in terms of perfection."
Yes its nice to be in Div 1 in the league, and its good to try out different players against the top teams in the league.
But mcguinness always had his eye on the championship and what it would take to defeat the top teams.
As all great managers do, there obsessed with perfection and getting every inch of energy out of the team.
The reality is since 2014 we have gone back in fitness and physicality compared to the top teams.
Top managers have every little detail gone through there head, and so has there team prepared for everything.
I remember in all the big games under mcguinness, the third quarter was when we really put the foot on the opposition's throat. Professionals called it the championship quarter because that was when the game was won or lost.

Sadly that is when Donegal lost games this last few years, as they just weren't prepared as a team.

I have seen mcguinness training teams, and he brings them to hell and back, so that there prepared physical and mentally to do whatever it takes to win.
I will have to write sometime now to explain to that other poster that i am using mcguinness as an example of what we should be looking for in a manager. And by no means do i expect mcguinness to take the job. Hopefully he understands, but its wishful thinking.

And some of the names being linked to the Donegal job is depressing to say the least.

Our only hope is to start a petition asking and begging mcguinness to take the job, and maybe if the whole of Donegal signed it, please god he will take it. What do yous think, lol. (The lol was for rorysboys)

The keeper (Donegal) - Posts: 566 - 26/07/2022 16:08:39    2434634

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Replying To The keeper:  "Yes its nice to be in Div 1 in the league, and its good to try out different players against the top teams in the league.
But mcguinness always had his eye on the championship and what it would take to defeat the top teams.
As all great managers do, there obsessed with perfection and getting every inch of energy out of the team.
The reality is since 2014 we have gone back in fitness and physicality compared to the top teams.
Top managers have every little detail gone through there head, and so has there team prepared for everything.
I remember in all the big games under mcguinness, the third quarter was when we really put the foot on the opposition's throat. Professionals called it the championship quarter because that was when the game was won or lost.

Sadly that is when Donegal lost games this last few years, as they just weren't prepared as a team.

I have seen mcguinness training teams, and he brings them to hell and back, so that there prepared physical and mentally to do whatever it takes to win.
I will have to write sometime now to explain to that other poster that i am using mcguinness as an example of what we should be looking for in a manager. And by no means do i expect mcguinness to take the job. Hopefully he understands, but its wishful thinking.

And some of the names being linked to the Donegal job is depressing to say the least.

Our only hope is to start a petition asking and begging mcguinness to take the job, and maybe if the whole of Donegal signed it, please god he will take it. What do yous think, lol. (The lol was for rorysboys)"
As I said before nothing stopping Mc Guinness taking the job. He's no other commitments. Go on keeper gave him a ring, but then again he mightn answer you, because you probably plaque him when you meet him. What makes you think Mc entee is the right fit , he done nothing with Sligo. Before I finish to prove a point listen now keeper. Jack o Connor managed Kildare last year and they were awful, especially in the Leinster final, this year he took over Kerry and win an all Ireland, he's a great manager now. Morale of the story is it take good players to win an all Ireland, managers can only get you so far. . Anybody thinks any different are only fooling themselves. Lol

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 1721 - 26/07/2022 18:02:31    2434676

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Its been a while hope everyone is doing well. Big thanks to Declan for all he has contributed over the years. To go all the way back to underage and go up through the grades took some dedication nevermind the time involved. Things started off really positively between the management team he got around him to the more attractive brand of football. I'm still really struggling to fathom how we reversed to what we've seen this year. However like I alluded to before the lateral overly systematic style of play is not all on Declan Bonner but a hallmark of all the Donegal sides including LYIT. This potentially is a mark against Karl Lacey given his involvement in Convoy. The length of time taken to come to a decision that seemed obvious given the pathetic seemingly downing of tools against Armagh in the second half was farcical. This doesn't fill me with any confidence in relation to the board getting the right people in. Again seeing the chairman in his training top sitting in the dugout was another farcical situation.

The argument that management isn't if not the most important aspect of any group shows a real lack of knowledge about sport in general. Speaking from personal experience I've been in dressing rooms with strong management and leadership who expected 100% effort and dedication, created a culture of accountability and constant improvement. This led to a very successful group. Conversely with the same players we seriously underachieved under different management who largely left us to manage ourselves. So getting this appointment right is very important but given the jobs for the boys culture prominent within the Donegal inter structures I'm not confident. We'll see what happens and hopefully Jim might be convinced if rumours of sounding out are correct. Himself and Lacey would create a massive buzz not just locally but nationally so we'll see. I know he's very happy in Derry so I thought it was unlikely.

Congrats to the under 16's on getting to the Buncrana Cup final. Hopefully they can get some silverware but its all about next year hopefully with new management to this year's. Again the ladies lost out in a big game when so close. Ultimately missed frees and a big goal chance not taken proved costly. Especially when Meath nailed their pressure frees in the second half. They won despite Vickie Wall not playing well. The score they got at the end to go 2 up was one of the scores of the year. Much like the Tyrone under twenties against Donegal earlier in the year. I read some posts comparing the ladies style to the other Donegal sides. I'd actually disagree I thought their style was more akin to Mayo's hand passing style and Derry in how they waited to implement set plays.

Hopefully we'll be posting soon optimistic and excited about our next management team. The tools are there just need an innovative mind to put it all together. Would an Eoin Ban have made a difference to Galway in the final stages of the game with his trusting runs? Absolutely. Or a fully fit in form Michael Langan in their half forward line? Of course. What about OMCFF or a on form Stephen McMenamin to help with Clifford and let Sean Kelly go forward? YES!!!!

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2732 - 26/07/2022 19:01:12    2434684

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Replying To marty234:  "A dislike for glenties and Eunans, continually saying we won an all Ireland because of Murphy alone even thou this theory has been tested with managers before and after and now wanting mcdaid who I agree is a great football brain involved. I have put it all together. Hard luck at the weekend getting relegated hope use bounce back as the top division needs use."
I think your bang on, that makes perfect sense of where declansboy is, a wee saddo out the Glen somewhere, well sussed out surprised no man copped it before, has to be out there.
I think a big effort should be made to get Jim back in maybe with Lacey as no.2, it would lift the whole county.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2145 - 26/07/2022 20:56:35    2434714

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Replying To rorysboys:  "John joe had Murphy when he was 19 or 20 and just starting off his career. Did Clifford win an all Ireland in his first few years.."
Okay so suddenly at 21-22 he was winning All Irelands on his own without influence from Jim - as you made out in your previous post.

I'm not sure where you're going with that tangent or indeed logic?

I don't think Kerry won the All Ireland with just David Clifford either? They finally got the best of a team that didn't have the cutthroat mentality when games were in the melting pot.

Their previous managers could often get to play well but miss out when it mattered. Nothing to do with Clifford - who was better that he was on Sunday in some of them games.

I think Declan is similar to those previous Kerry Managers. He's a good guy and a good manager sure. But he doesn't instil that extra edge to win in his teams. So many times when games were in the melting pot we were missing that edge.

If you watch the team and think they can give no more to cause and lose then fair enough.

But when have you last seen that from a Donegal team ... There was some nice wins, some stylish wins but there were no defiant wins, no ruthless ones. Maybe the Tyrone league win this year was one but then look at Tyrone this year.

Can you honestly say you have seen a heroic victory like against Kildare in 2011, or Kerry, Cork and Mayo in 2012, or Monaghan and Dublin in 2014?

There was nothing that defined the team, where they were fulfilling potential, making breakthroughs, changing momentum and looking like contenders.

If anything they've looked the opposite the last few years. And for me, that's down to mentality and belief.

Al_Maguire (Donegal) - Posts: 215 - 26/07/2022 22:04:35    2434729

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I see that Stephen Rochford was part of Bernard Flynns unsuccessful ticket for the Meath job. That more or less confirms that he has no interest in any managerial roles as a front man and is content with coaching roles.

SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 279 - 27/07/2022 09:18:34    2434744

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Replying To Al_Maguire:  "Okay so suddenly at 21-22 he was winning All Irelands on his own without influence from Jim - as you made out in your previous post.

I'm not sure where you're going with that tangent or indeed logic?

I don't think Kerry won the All Ireland with just David Clifford either? They finally got the best of a team that didn't have the cutthroat mentality when games were in the melting pot.

Their previous managers could often get to play well but miss out when it mattered. Nothing to do with Clifford - who was better that he was on Sunday in some of them games.

I think Declan is similar to those previous Kerry Managers. He's a good guy and a good manager sure. But he doesn't instil that extra edge to win in his teams. So many times when games were in the melting pot we were missing that edge.

If you watch the team and think they can give no more to cause and lose then fair enough.

But when have you last seen that from a Donegal team ... There was some nice wins, some stylish wins but there were no defiant wins, no ruthless ones. Maybe the Tyrone league win this year was one but then look at Tyrone this year.

Can you honestly say you have seen a heroic victory like against Kildare in 2011, or Kerry, Cork and Mayo in 2012, or Monaghan and Dublin in 2014?

There was nothing that defined the team, where they were fulfilling potential, making breakthroughs, changing momentum and looking like contenders.

If anything they've looked the opposite the last few years. And for me, that's down to mentality and belief."
Ah come on now, the reason Kerry win on Sunday was David Clifford, Jack o Connor done nothing with Kildare because he hadnt these top players. Same as Murphy winning in 2012 Jim was a brilliant manager but Murphy was the final piece in the jigsaw. Put it like this if Murphy wasn't playing in 2012 or Clifford in Sundays final would both teams have win answer no. So player is king over management I rest my case.

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 1721 - 27/07/2022 09:59:02    2434757

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