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We were never going to win all our games in Division 1, even if yesterday's defeat was hard to swallow at first. What the team have done so far is incredible, given that half of them are new. A new goalkeeper, Hughes & Ruane & McCormack in defense, a brand new midfield pairing, and Dolan, O'Carroll & Daire Cregg up front. Some teams take seasons to implement such changes. We still need a point or two to feel comfortable in Division 1 and I wouldn't be convinced they'll come next weekend. Mayo are ateing teams at the moment, but Roscommon have surprised us all with their performances so far so hopefully they can get their energy and game back up for the last three matches. Ros Comaín abú.
SpanishRossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 19 - 27/02/2023 11:14:12
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Replying To Primrose_and_blue: "Hopefully it doesn't. We could do with another point and I wouldn't like to be going into that final game v Donegal needing something which may well be the case depending how it goes next week and in Tralee.
Thought we were very sloppy today and didn't deserve anything from the game. We struggled to break Armagh down in the first half last week when they sat back against the wind and only opened them up when they came out and played second half. Monaghan were wise to that today and were happy for us to carry ball into their half knowing we struggle to break down those defences. They penetrated us that bit easier on the counter attack when we gave them some silly turnovers.
Monaghan are physically an impressive side and thought it was a good lesson for some of our younger players today, a few of them took the ball into the tackle too often and against a team like that you will be turned over.
Hopefully we get a good crowd in the Hyde next week and we see a positive reaction and an improved performance." Looking back at the game there was a stage in the first half when we tried to be inventive and kick pass it in to the full forward line, I think there was at least one high ball into Lennon but the execution was really poor. Ben O'Carrolls black card was exceptionally harsh and we probably didn't get the rub of the green with some decisions. Saying that, Monaghan were full value for their win. If they were lacking a bit of intensity against Monaghan no better occasion than Mayo next weekend to up it again.
MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 773 - 27/02/2023 11:56:22
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Replying To SpanishRossie: "We were never going to win all our games in Division 1, even if yesterday's defeat was hard to swallow at first. What the team have done so far is incredible, given that half of them are new. A new goalkeeper, Hughes & Ruane & McCormack in defense, a brand new midfield pairing, and Dolan, O'Carroll & Daire Cregg up front. Some teams take seasons to implement such changes. We still need a point or two to feel comfortable in Division 1 and I wouldn't be convinced they'll come next weekend. Mayo are ateing teams at the moment, but Roscommon have surprised us all with their performances so far so hopefully they can get their energy and game back up for the last three matches. Ros Comaín abú." Mayo have a lot of new starters also. 7 of the Mayo team that started in their last championship game v Kerry in 2022 did not start against Tyrone last Saturday night. That's quite a turnover. It's similar to Roscommon. We had about 7 of the team that started against Clare last Summer starting in Clones yesterday.
endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2155 - 27/02/2023 12:37:52
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Replying To endgame: "Mayo have a lot of new starters also. 7 of the Mayo team that started in their last championship game v Kerry in 2022 did not start against Tyrone last Saturday night. That's quite a turnover. It's similar to Roscommon. We had about 7 of the team that started against Clare last Summer starting in Clones yesterday." Mayo players that started against Tyrone and haven't started in the championship. Colm Reape,Jack Coyne David McBrien, Donnacha McHugh. Enda Hession has been around for a few years, Carney last year and McDonagh,Carr a number of years. Coen,Loftus,Ruane,O'Connor,Flynn,O'Donnogue all from either their 2016 U21 winning team or U20 2018 AI finalist team and the very experienced Aidan O'Shea. They have got the right mix of youth and experienced and their fitness and conditioning is championship ready already. The strength of any team is normally the strength of their bench, last Saturday Durcan,Doherty,O'Connor and Tommy Conroy brought on that's as strong as I recall for a Mayo bench to be.
As for ourselves there is no question things had become stale, changing up the team and a new voice on the sideline was required after we reverted back to our old habit of getting knocked out of the championship by a team we were expected to beat. 8 changes as you already say and number of positional switches such as Conor Daly full back,Brian Stack at 6, Diarmuid Murtagh at 11 and Lennon,Ruane played in unfamiliar roles. Our bench made a big impact in our three wins yesterday for whatever reason didn't. A lot of error we made yesterday will be ruthlessly exposed and punished if repeated against Mayo on Sunday. I'm always of the view that even one defeat in Div 1 much more is learnt from it that a whole campaign in Div 2 so hopefully lesson are take on board in training this week and we give a competitive performance on Sunday.
The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 3744 - 27/02/2023 14:19:28
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Replying To The_analyser: "Mayo players that started against Tyrone and haven't started in the championship. Colm Reape,Jack Coyne David McBrien, Donnacha McHugh. Enda Hession has been around for a few years, Carney last year and McDonagh,Carr a number of years. Coen,Loftus,Ruane,O'Connor,Flynn,O'Donnogue all from either their 2016 U21 winning team or U20 2018 AI finalist team and the very experienced Aidan O'Shea. They have got the right mix of youth and experienced and their fitness and conditioning is championship ready already. The strength of any team is normally the strength of their bench, last Saturday Durcan,Doherty,O'Connor and Tommy Conroy brought on that's as strong as I recall for a Mayo bench to be.
As for ourselves there is no question things had become stale, changing up the team and a new voice on the sideline was required after we reverted back to our old habit of getting knocked out of the championship by a team we were expected to beat. 8 changes as you already say and number of positional switches such as Conor Daly full back,Brian Stack at 6, Diarmuid Murtagh at 11 and Lennon,Ruane played in unfamiliar roles. Our bench made a big impact in our three wins yesterday for whatever reason didn't. A lot of error we made yesterday will be ruthlessly exposed and punished if repeated against Mayo on Sunday. I'm always of the view that even one defeat in Div 1 much more is learnt from it that a whole campaign in Div 2 so hopefully lesson are take on board in training this week and we give a competitive performance on Sunday." Mayo have lost a huge amount of experience and quality. Just this year they've lost former footballer of the year Lee Keegan and former young footballer of the year Oisin Mullin. Mayo clearly have a lot of work done. They're being talked up and not for the first time but we won't know how good they are until later in the year. Galway still favourites to win Connacht I'd say. As for Mayo's 2016 All Ireland winners, that team should have lost to Roscommon in the Connacht championship. We've been every bit as good as Mayo at underage over the last few years.
endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2155 - 27/02/2023 17:34:15
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Replying To The_analyser: "Mayo players that started against Tyrone and haven't started in the championship. Colm Reape,Jack Coyne David McBrien, Donnacha McHugh. Enda Hession has been around for a few years, Carney last year and McDonagh,Carr a number of years. Coen,Loftus,Ruane,O'Connor,Flynn,O'Donnogue all from either their 2016 U21 winning team or U20 2018 AI finalist team and the very experienced Aidan O'Shea. They have got the right mix of youth and experienced and their fitness and conditioning is championship ready already. The strength of any team is normally the strength of their bench, last Saturday Durcan,Doherty,O'Connor and Tommy Conroy brought on that's as strong as I recall for a Mayo bench to be.
As for ourselves there is no question things had become stale, changing up the team and a new voice on the sideline was required after we reverted back to our old habit of getting knocked out of the championship by a team we were expected to beat. 8 changes as you already say and number of positional switches such as Conor Daly full back,Brian Stack at 6, Diarmuid Murtagh at 11 and Lennon,Ruane played in unfamiliar roles. Our bench made a big impact in our three wins yesterday for whatever reason didn't. A lot of error we made yesterday will be ruthlessly exposed and punished if repeated against Mayo on Sunday. I'm always of the view that even one defeat in Div 1 much more is learnt from it that a whole campaign in Div 2 so hopefully lesson are take on board in training this week and we give a competitive performance on Sunday." What did we learn yesterday?
21 year olds are no match physically for tough oul Monaghan dogs (no disrespect...it's meant as a complement).?
Some of our senior players gone past sell by dates in terms of appetite and intensity?
Slow sideways handpassing will win nothing -a lesson not learnt in 4 seasons.
Let's hope for a more intense performance against the Mayos next Sunday or we could get an awful batin!
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1403 - 27/02/2023 19:58:10
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Very enjoyable day in Clones yesterday despite the result and another huge Ross crowd. Weather played its part as well. Context before any analysis of performance is that we have 6pts out of 8pts which we would have snapped hand off if offered 5 weeks ago.
Performance, set up and tactics were very similar to what we have seen in the previous 3 matches. We are not regularly going to get a big score but also on the other side we are not going to concede huge scores or get a mauling. The main differences yesterday was the physical power of the opposition and the fact they had their due diligence done on us and targeted key areas. On numerous occasions one monaghan player was able to burst through a cluster of 4/5 Roscommon players while too often a Ross player was turned over by 1/2 monaghan players.
Monaghan were the better team throughout but their wayward shooting kept us in the match and we could have stolen a point and it would have been a steal. Black cards were a mixed bag. Diarmuid unlucky unlucky as Hughes was clever. The issue is Diarmuis Murtagh as centre forward back inside his own 45 trying to tackle a wing back amd us playing with the breeze. That is a lot of our problems with our slow build up is we have everyone back there is no kick outlet everything has to be ran to a certain point on the pitch. The weather for first 3 matches had a huge bearing and allowed us to keep numbers back but yesterday drier and faster ball caused us issues. Monaghan are a seasoned Div 1 tram having spent 10 seasons in a row at Div 1 level. Got promoted in 2013 and haven't looked back. Ironically Roscommon beat them that uear in Hyde by a pt in a very low scoring affair..
We don't seem to have any other way to play only to have 15 men in our own half for long periods. It is actually very ahead to watch at times amd could be an issue as pitches get faster.
Thought Richard Hughes was very good yesterday and was baffled by his substitution given he wasn't taken at ht on the yellow. It has to be said he was very lucky not to get a straight red card. Ben o Carroll continues to improve and was very unselfish trying to find Robbie Dolan when I thought he could have pulled the trigger himself. I don't think he can have any complaints about black card as he put two hands on the defenders shoulders and pulled him down. Had got away with one only a few mins earlier.
Wasn't sure what all our subs were about. I know Diarmuid's black card curtailed the options. Thought Keith Doyle was very unlucky to be taken off. He kicked a bad ball out over line trying to find Ben and it was a reaction to that and yet he went and turned monaghan over in the next play and went down on ball when others didn't. We were destroyed on monaghans kick outs yesterday and they could find pockets of space to run into.
Was speaking to a kerry man Saturday night and he made a very intersting observation even before yesterday by saying that we night not win another match this year. It certainly was food for thought.
Congrats to Ciaran Murtagh on making his 100th appearance . A huge and proud achievement for him and his family. Roll on next Sunday back in Hyde and the neighbours. Could be a dead rubber and I won't travel down until I see the teams named earlier in week to gauge how seriously both sides are taking it.
SmokieRoss (Roscommon) - Posts: 272 - 27/02/2023 21:03:05
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "What did we learn yesterday?
21 year olds are no match physically for tough oul Monaghan dogs (no disrespect...it's meant as a complement).?
Some of our senior players gone past sell by dates in terms of appetite and intensity?
Slow sideways handpassing will win nothing -a lesson not learnt in 4 seasons.
Let's hope for a more intense performance against the Mayos next Sunday or we could get an awful batin!" would love to see Burke freshen it up v Mayo. Give Colin Walsh a run out against aos and throw shane cunnane (if he's still on the panel) in to midfield. Cunnane is a good ball player who can link the play and pick a pass plus he's also a outstanding place kicker. Walsh has the physical attributes to put it up to o'se. we're as good as safe now so nothing to lose!
mayomanic (Mayo) - Posts: 85 - 28/02/2023 08:26:37
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Replying To mayomanic: "would love to see Burke freshen it up v Mayo. Give Colin Walsh a run out against aos and throw shane cunnane (if he's still on the panel) in to midfield. Cunnane is a good ball player who can link the play and pick a pass plus he's also a outstanding place kicker. Walsh has the physical attributes to put it up to o'se. we're as good as safe now so nothing to lose!" Mayomanic?? So who do you support?
dave1988 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1046 - 28/02/2023 09:27:57
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Replying To SmokieRoss: "Very enjoyable day in Clones yesterday despite the result and another huge Ross crowd. Weather played its part as well. Context before any analysis of performance is that we have 6pts out of 8pts which we would have snapped hand off if offered 5 weeks ago.
Performance, set up and tactics were very similar to what we have seen in the previous 3 matches. We are not regularly going to get a big score but also on the other side we are not going to concede huge scores or get a mauling. The main differences yesterday was the physical power of the opposition and the fact they had their due diligence done on us and targeted key areas. On numerous occasions one monaghan player was able to burst through a cluster of 4/5 Roscommon players while too often a Ross player was turned over by 1/2 monaghan players.
Monaghan were the better team throughout but their wayward shooting kept us in the match and we could have stolen a point and it would have been a steal. Black cards were a mixed bag. Diarmuid unlucky unlucky as Hughes was clever. The issue is Diarmuis Murtagh as centre forward back inside his own 45 trying to tackle a wing back amd us playing with the breeze. That is a lot of our problems with our slow build up is we have everyone back there is no kick outlet everything has to be ran to a certain point on the pitch. The weather for first 3 matches had a huge bearing and allowed us to keep numbers back but yesterday drier and faster ball caused us issues. Monaghan are a seasoned Div 1 tram having spent 10 seasons in a row at Div 1 level. Got promoted in 2013 and haven't looked back. Ironically Roscommon beat them that uear in Hyde by a pt in a very low scoring affair..
We don't seem to have any other way to play only to have 15 men in our own half for long periods. It is actually very ahead to watch at times amd could be an issue as pitches get faster.
Thought Richard Hughes was very good yesterday and was baffled by his substitution given he wasn't taken at ht on the yellow. It has to be said he was very lucky not to get a straight red card. Ben o Carroll continues to improve and was very unselfish trying to find Robbie Dolan when I thought he could have pulled the trigger himself. I don't think he can have any complaints about black card as he put two hands on the defenders shoulders and pulled him down. Had got away with one only a few mins earlier.
Wasn't sure what all our subs were about. I know Diarmuid's black card curtailed the options. Thought Keith Doyle was very unlucky to be taken off. He kicked a bad ball out over line trying to find Ben and it was a reaction to that and yet he went and turned monaghan over in the next play and went down on ball when others didn't. We were destroyed on monaghans kick outs yesterday and they could find pockets of space to run into.
Was speaking to a kerry man Saturday night and he made a very intersting observation even before yesterday by saying that we night not win another match this year. It certainly was food for thought.
Congrats to Ciaran Murtagh on making his 100th appearance . A huge and proud achievement for him and his family. Roll on next Sunday back in Hyde and the neighbours. Could be a dead rubber and I won't travel down until I see the teams named earlier in week to gauge how seriously both sides are taking it." Not a dead rubber for us. If we get beat by mayo and Kerry and a couple of other results don't go out way then we could be looking at beating or drawing with Donegal to stay up. It's the same for Mayo.
dave1988 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1046 - 28/02/2023 09:32:09
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Replying To mayomanic: "would love to see Burke freshen it up v Mayo. Give Colin Walsh a run out against aos and throw shane cunnane (if he's still on the panel) in to midfield. Cunnane is a good ball player who can link the play and pick a pass plus he's also a outstanding place kicker. Walsh has the physical attributes to put it up to o'se. we're as good as safe now so nothing to lose!" We are not safe yet and points difference could well make a difference. Both Mayo & Kerry could do huge damage to our scoring difference if we treat either game as a trial match for some players. Do it after we are safe. The management know from the training pitch who is going well. Nice for a Mayo supporter to offer the Rossies some advice.
letsgetgoing (Roscommon) - Posts: 494 - 28/02/2023 09:42:38
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Looks like a few here still doesn't realise that remaining on 6 points could still get you relegated.
@SmokieRoss, Ben O'Carroll challenge was a yellow going by the rule book. Richard Hughes was lucky because of the reaction of McCarron to go down holding his face like he was punched. The officials seen it which was a push and the correct decision of a yellow.
Roscommon was every bit if not more wasteful with their shooting and shot selection it was another game of fine margins. Just one score in it Roscommon played 15 minutes with 14 men made a difference to the outcome.
Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3338 - 28/02/2023 13:32:09
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Replying To endgame: "Mayo have lost a huge amount of experience and quality. Just this year they've lost former footballer of the year Lee Keegan and former young footballer of the year Oisin Mullin. Mayo clearly have a lot of work done. They're being talked up and not for the first time but we won't know how good they are until later in the year. Galway still favourites to win Connacht I'd say. As for Mayo's 2016 All Ireland winners, that team should have lost to Roscommon in the Connacht championship. We've been every bit as good as Mayo at underage over the last few years." Yes anyone that was in attendance at the 2016 U21 Connacht final would know that was a match we left behind us and where various breaks went Mayos way. My point was what has happened since that night in Sligo. A handful of the Mayo team have gone on to be established seniors with the experience of playing in All-Ireland semi and finals and now forming a core of the team under McStay. We have lost four important players from that 2016 team in R Daly, C Compton, S Mullooly and U Harney. All likely starters now if fit and available for selection
The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 3744 - 28/02/2023 14:19:19
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "What did we learn yesterday?
21 year olds are no match physically for tough oul Monaghan dogs (no disrespect...it's meant as a complement).?
Some of our senior players gone past sell by dates in terms of appetite and intensity?
Slow sideways handpassing will win nothing -a lesson not learnt in 4 seasons.
Let's hope for a more intense performance against the Mayos next Sunday or we could get an awful batin!" Some of younger players namely O'Carroll, Dolan was among our best performers.
It tells me that some of our more experienced players continues to switch off with intensity and remain inconsistent. It was our worst and most error prone performance out of our 4 games yet we were still only a kick of a ball from claiming a draw. That's improvement on our last away visit to Monaghan whereby we were well beaten and conceded 2-17.
Full intensity and concentration will be required on Sunday in order to be competitive.
The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 3744 - 28/02/2023 14:27:27
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Replying To Gaa_lover: "Looks like a few here still doesn't realise that remaining on 6 points could still get you relegated.
@SmokieRoss, Ben O'Carroll challenge was a yellow going by the rule book. Richard Hughes was lucky because of the reaction of McCarron to go down holding his face like he was punched. The officials seen it which was a push and the correct decision of a yellow.
Roscommon was every bit if not more wasteful with their shooting and shot selection it was another game of fine margins. Just one score in it Roscommon played 15 minutes with 14 men made a difference to the outcome." Yes, Contrary to a post that I myself made earlier (apologies) it now transpires that it is likely that 1 team will be relegated on 6 points.
Mathematically speaking with 56 points on offer across an 8 team league , theoretically you could get relegated on 8 points , but that phenomenon is no longer possible since that would require 1 team to have 0 points.
But 7 points is still not mathematically safe ( although that would need an extremely unusual sequence of results ,including draws) and 6 definitely is not.
At the end of the league the average points per team will be 7 (obviously) . So for every point that a team scores below 7 , there must correspondingly be teams with points above 7.
So if, for example if 2 teams end up with 5 points and 4 teams end up with 6. that would be a differential of 8 versus the average which would mean that the other 2 teams would need to end up on 11 points ( or 1 on 10 and 1 on 12).
The only way that would happen is if Mayo and Ros kept winning every game (except the one between them).
Not sure if that example explains what I'm trying to say but the bottom line is that there wont be many teams with 8 points or more....and the less cumulative points above 7 , means the less cumulative points below 7 ...and hence increase the risk of relegation on 6 points.
anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 840 - 28/02/2023 14:31:28
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Replying To The_analyser: "Some of younger players namely O'Carroll, Dolan was among our best performers.
It tells me that some of our more experienced players continues to switch off with intensity and remain inconsistent. It was our worst and most error prone performance out of our 4 games yet we were still only a kick of a ball from claiming a draw. That's improvement on our last away visit to Monaghan whereby we were well beaten and conceded 2-17.
Full intensity and concentration will be required on Sunday in order to be competitive." We definitely didn't match Monaghan for hunger and intensity. Add into that a lot of sloppiness whether from a defensive or attacking perspective. I'm not sure what the reason behind that was. As you say, there is a habit to switch off sometimes. Hopefully management will have the team at full tilt for Mayo. How close is Eddie Nolan to coming back?
MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 773 - 28/02/2023 15:30:01
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Was speaking to a kerry man Saturday night and he made a very intersting observation even before yesterday by saying that we night not win another match this year. It certainly was food for thought.
SmokieRoss (Roscommon)
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Going to take a wild guess and say there was no talking to Kerry man but you forming an opinion after a first loss in 4 games.
As outsider looking in to me Roscommon have never lacked talent and ability to compete but one of the biggest issues has been belief and held back by such defeatist attitudes. That's the biggest task on the hands of Davy Burke and management to turn such mindset around.
Yondu (UK) - Posts: 845 - 28/02/2023 15:52:36
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I would say that Kerry man if asked in December would have said we wont win a game all year. Most taught we wouldn't. Bookies had us massive favourites to be relegated. If we don't win another game this year and stay if its been a successful year IMO
sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1144 - 28/02/2023 16:27:22
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Replying To Yondu: "Was speaking to a kerry man Saturday night and he made a very intersting observation even before yesterday by saying that we night not win another match this year. It certainly was food for thought.
SmokieRoss (Roscommon)
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Going to take a wild guess and say there was no talking to Kerry man but you forming an opinion after a first loss in 4 games.
As outsider looking in to me Roscommon have never lacked talent and ability to compete but one of the biggest issues has been belief and held back by such defeatist attitudes. That's the biggest task on the hands of Davy Burke and management to turn such mindset around." Nearly sure that poster said simliar when we beat Sligo in the FBD last month, seems to be his style of posting each to their own and all that.
A lot of the game is played in the head and if that's not right you can forget about it. We have Kelley Faye as our performance psychologist I'd be hopeful with her guidance that we can become less inconsistent and fully switched on more often from game to game and even within games.
The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 3744 - 28/02/2023 16:47:00
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To be fair to the kerryman who stated same he said it is very similar to 2016 with our start to league and our fitness levels compared to other teams at early stage. We looked dead in our feet last Sunday. As i said we have 6 pts and delighted to have them and I for one did t expect us to win three games. I thought we'd have a chance v Galway amd maybe Donegal at home.
If anyone thinks we should have got something out of Sunday they're raving. Could we have nicked a draw at end indeed we could. Monaghan put 6 balls into keepers hands and the one he punched out resulted in a point. The sun that end seemed to be an issue.
The problem for us we have no focal point at 11 to kick the ball out of defence for a quick attack as we are funnelling bodies back. That is fine and it has contributed to us getting 6 pts to keep us up. Thay said we need a Plan B and there is none currently and faster ball and group conditions will see us wanting. I would put Enda Smith at 11 this Sunday on Loftus who is not a natural centre back and will leave gaps.
The chances of getting relegated on 6 is extremely slim as the teams in bottom 4 have to play each other. For example Galway have to play Armagh and Monaghan yet along with Kerry. Monaghan have to play Tyrone, Galway and Mayo. Tyrone have Kerry, Armagh and Monaghan. Donegal have Armagh, Mayo and Roscommon. Armagh have Tyrone, Donegal and Galway.
Talk Cian McKeon could be back on panel this week. I would like to see Colin Walsh start as well amd I would also like to see Daire Cregg start as well.
SmokieRoss (Roscommon) - Posts: 272 - 28/02/2023 18:53:26
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