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Replying To yew_tree: "Again I'll ask who in the current Mayo panel that has lost previous all Irelands shouldn't be there? You say it's McStays job to drop them but who? Mayo hold extensive trials around the country every winter. A huge amount of new players have been brought through in the past three years.
You like for like assessment in what O'Donoughue did in Galway is not that simple. If Mayo drop every player that has lost a final then your looking at dropping young hession and ROD. We wouldn't have much of a panel left then." I've no idea who he should be dropping.
Senior players failed to win an All Ireland, got rid of Holmes Connelly, failed again, got rid of Rochford failed again. None of them were dropped, they all got to decide when to go. That wouldn't happen in other counties, not our problem. Read Jackie Tyrell's book, he won 9 All Ireland's but Cody dropped him.
smallfrank (Galway) - Posts: 364 - 09/03/2023 13:53:10
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Replying To systematic: "Of course I was at the game, I'm at all the games. Hence I don't have time to spend all day on here.
I don't think I'm prejudiced, I'm honest. My post was reasonably fair, I didn't call anything overly unfairly. We won kickouts on Sunday from the outfield players, not the keeper. We'll be coming up against better than Monaghan's midfield too.
I just don't see genuine improvement since Donegal or since Tyrone, it's the same. Not better, not worse, the same.
I also don't know why you have to follow up with a glowing outstanding review when you see something negative, acting like we have a top 10 keeper is also disingenuous.
Never said we had a bad performance, winning with 14 men at home is a sign of great confidence.
It's just a bit heartbreaking when we have better keepers in the county not seeing any game time because we are persisting with the current keeper.
Even Kerry are trying out a new keeper, why can't we?" Systematic: your prejudice and antagonism towards Conor Gleeson an excellent keeper, knows no bounds. We can do without "supporters" like you -- all negative criticism but no solutions (maybe that's on account of you being so busy, unlike the rest of us common people with nothing to do? Reading this kind of vitriol is really a toxic experience. If you have nothing positive to offer, stay off the forum and give us all a break.
FatLadySinging (Galway) - Posts: 88 - 09/03/2023 14:00:02
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Replying To FatLadySinging: "Systematic: your prejudice and antagonism towards Conor Gleeson an excellent keeper, knows no bounds. We can do without "supporters" like you -- all negative criticism but no solutions (maybe that's on account of you being so busy, unlike the rest of us common people with nothing to do? Reading this kind of vitriol is really a toxic experience. If you have nothing positive to offer, stay off the forum and give us all a break." Well said
Dunmore10 (Galway) - Posts: 120 - 09/03/2023 14:35:39
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Replying To FatLadySinging: "Systematic: your prejudice and antagonism towards Conor Gleeson an excellent keeper, knows no bounds. We can do without "supporters" like you -- all negative criticism but no solutions (maybe that's on account of you being so busy, unlike the rest of us common people with nothing to do? Reading this kind of vitriol is really a toxic experience. If you have nothing positive to offer, stay off the forum and give us all a break." Very rich from you telling me I can't support my county because I have a bad opinion on our current keeper.
I'm very willing to offer solutions - get Conor Flaherty back in, try get Conor Carroll back to Galway (not happening though), give Bernie Power a game to show how good he is.
Otherwise, he needs improve the kickout times, improve the accuracy, and improve the short kickouts. Ideally the long kickouts are less high and telegraphed but we can't have everything we want.
I would have thought you'd think your own club man, Boyle, would be more fit too!
Calling me prejudiced and antagonistic towards him is also completely disingenuous and way overblown, using terms like vitriolic and antagonistic.
I'm all for positivity - just no sense at all in getting the heads too big as we have problems that will be exploited in championship.
systematic (Galway) - Posts: 69 - 09/03/2023 14:52:18
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Replying To Dunmore10: "Name all these goalies so?" I will name them:
Conor Flaherty
Conor Carroll
Bernie Power
Cormac Haslam
Maghnus Breathnach (questionable but probably did not get enough time to show what he could do)
Do you realize how close ye came to losing the intermediate final last year?
systematic (Galway) - Posts: 69 - 09/03/2023 14:55:40
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Replying To yew_tree: "Again I'll ask who in the current Mayo panel that has lost previous all Irelands shouldn't be there? You say it's McStays job to drop them but who? Mayo hold extensive trials around the country every winter. A huge amount of new players have been brought through in the past three years.
You like for like assessment in what O'Donoughue did in Galway is not that simple. If Mayo drop every player that has lost a final then your looking at dropping young hession and ROD. We wouldn't have much of a panel left then." If Donoghue dropped all the Galway players who'd lost hurling final(s), he'd have had practically zero players for his 2016 panel. Players who lose finals get stigmatised sometimes, but they're still outperforming 90+% of players who don't lose finals, players that haven't been good enough to play in any finals.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3421 - 09/03/2023 15:26:07
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Replying To Pope_Benedict: "If Donoghue dropped all the Galway players who'd lost hurling final(s), he'd have had practically zero players for his 2016 panel. Players who lose finals get stigmatised sometimes, but they're still outperforming 90+% of players who don't lose finals, players that haven't been good enough to play in any finals." The original post is about Kevin McStay not making any big calls in relation to the Mayo panel.
Mícheál Donoghue made some big calls in relation to a few guys who were senior players under the previous management. Took courage as does dropping Charlie Carter, Cha Fitzpatrick etc etc but that's what the great managers do.
smallfrank (Galway) - Posts: 364 - 09/03/2023 15:48:42
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Replying To smallfrank: "The original post is about Kevin McStay not making any big calls in relation to the Mayo panel.
Mícheál Donoghue made some big calls in relation to a few guys who were senior players under the previous management. Took courage as does dropping Charlie Carter, Cha Fitzpatrick etc etc but that's what the great managers do." What big calls did Jack O'Connor make when he took over before last year? Or Logan/Dooher the previous year?
McStay has dropped some players off the panel, and benched other experienced players at different stages too.
MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 420 - 09/03/2023 16:14:37
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Replying To MayoDan: "What big calls did Jack O'Connor make when he took over before last year? Or Logan/Dooher the previous year?
McStay has dropped some players off the panel, and benched other experienced players at different stages too." Just a hunch now but I would say if Paul Geaney and David Moran lost 5 or 6 All Ireland's in the last 10 years, some from winning positions and others as favourites, they may have looked at other options
smallfrank (Galway) - Posts: 364 - 09/03/2023 16:40:05
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Replying To systematic: "I will name them:
Conor Flaherty
Conor Carroll
Bernie Power
Cormac Haslam
Maghnus Breathnach (questionable but probably did not get enough time to show what he could do)
Do you realize how close ye came to losing the intermediate final last year?" Bar Flaherty none of that lot are better than Gleeson
gaillimhboy (Galway) - Posts: 339 - 09/03/2023 16:51:30
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Replying To systematic: "I will name them:
Conor Flaherty
Conor Carroll
Bernie Power
Cormac Haslam
Maghnus Breathnach (questionable but probably did not get enough time to show what he could do)
Do you realize how close ye came to losing the intermediate final last year?" Flaherty would nt commit or haslem, connor Carroll is roscommon now, come on Mághnus Breathnach, power has done plenty wrong when he played, mayo in limerick 2019 for a start, and seen as ur such a expert on connor, do u know we would nt ave bate sligo champs or ballyhaunis only for him.
Dunmore10 (Galway) - Posts: 120 - 09/03/2023 18:10:02
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Replying To smallfrank: "The original post is about Kevin McStay not making any big calls in relation to the Mayo panel.
Mícheál Donoghue made some big calls in relation to a few guys who were senior players under the previous management. Took courage as does dropping Charlie Carter, Cha Fitzpatrick etc etc but that's what the great managers do." On that basis, Anthony Cunningham was a very very great manager because he conducted two substantial culls in his 4year tenure, one when he took over and built the 2012 runner-up overnight, and two when he revamped that 2012 side completely in '13 '14 '15 to build a new runner-up side in 2015. You're bigging up Michael Donoghue for making big calls, but Cunningham made equally big calls TWICE in his tenure, and arguably alienated his selected squad by autumn 2015 with those moves.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3421 - 09/03/2023 19:34:33
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Replying To Dunmore10: "Flaherty would nt commit or haslem, connor Carroll is roscommon now, come on Mághnus Breathnach, power has done plenty wrong when he played, mayo in limerick 2019 for a start, and seen as ur such a expert on connor, do u know we would nt ave bate sligo champs or ballyhaunis only for him." Please keep your opinions about Conor Flaherty to yourself.Conor Flaherty has his own reasons for not going in with the panel and I think saying he wouldn't commit is just as belittling as the comments you are complaining about.Maybe he has personal reasons.He has played football and hurling non stop at college,club and county level.You want people to respect Conor Gleeson then have some respect for other keepers.
Alwaysencourage (Galway) - Posts: 218 - 09/03/2023 20:36:18
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Replying To smallfrank: "Just a hunch now but I would say if Paul Geaney and David Moran lost 5 or 6 All Ireland's in the last 10 years, some from winning positions and others as favourites, they may have looked at other options" What about Logan and Dooher?
From what I remember, Geaney and Moran were a significant reason for Kerry not beating Dublin in the 2019 final. Despite having an extra man for the majority. I guess O'Connor knew they were still good enough to be involved.
MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 420 - 09/03/2023 20:52:54
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Replying To Pope_Benedict: "On that basis, Anthony Cunningham was a very very great manager because he conducted two substantial culls in his 4year tenure, one when he took over and built the 2012 runner-up overnight, and two when he revamped that 2012 side completely in '13 '14 '15 to build a new runner-up side in 2015. You're bigging up Michael Donoghue for making big calls, but Cunningham made equally big calls TWICE in his tenure, and arguably alienated his selected squad by autumn 2015 with those moves." I'm not bigging up anyone. Just commenting that he did make some big calls which is a fact. Anthony Cunningham was a good manager too. He shook things up no doubt.
smallfrank (Galway) - Posts: 364 - 09/03/2023 20:53:52
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Replying To Alwaysencourage: "Please keep your opinions about Conor Flaherty to yourself.Conor Flaherty has his own reasons for not going in with the panel and I think saying he wouldn't commit is just as belittling as the comments you are complaining about.Maybe he has personal reasons.He has played football and hurling non stop at college,club and county level.You want people to respect Conor Gleeson then have some respect for other keepers." Its a conversation about goalies, i was answering about them. He is nt available so it was a non runner to say him, i meant nothing by it. I take it back if i caused offence, there was none ment
Dunmore10 (Galway) - Posts: 120 - 09/03/2023 21:04:10
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As we go into the last block of league games what are peoples opinions on where we are?
For me on the plus side
-I think we found a few defenders. E Kelly, Mulcahy & Mcgrath look up to it.
-Cathal Sweeney has stepped up which after the last kick boo boo against Mayo took balls.
-Cooke is a good addition
-Finnerty keeps getting better
-Avoided serious injuries
-Rested Walsh & Comer (enforced but rested all the same)
-Tierney stepping up a level
-Forward line is exceptional when we have at least 2 of Walsh/Finnerty/Comer
On the negative side
-Was hoping Mulkerrins & McLoughlin would get some game time. 2 potentially huge additions to the squad. Might happen yet
-Very little depth up front when it comes to scoring forwards
-Our kick outs are better but only marginally
Overall I am happy. I think PJ has knows a few lads probably are not up to it so while it is a negative, we won't be finding out in a Connacht Semi Final. Ian Burke being back is a positive but at the same time he has not really fired yet. I think he is worth persevering with....class is permanent.
Our athleticism is huge and we seem to be starting to move it up a notch again as the league progresses. It wouldn't surprise me to see a flat performance in the next game as they could take the break between games as an opportunity for a hard block of training.
Looking at the new structure it will be very hard NOT to make an AI Q/F so timing your training blocks etc is going to be crucial. Wouldn't it be lovely to pick up some silverware along the way. I think getting to a league final would be good for the group (we have a break before championship) and having a crack off Kerry in the last league game also. We don't beat them too often and I think it is important to start doing it more regularly and remove any mystique (outside of Clifford they are good but not supermen)
Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1829 - 10/03/2023 09:26:42
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Replying To smallfrank: "The original post is about Kevin McStay not making any big calls in relation to the Mayo panel.
Mícheál Donoghue made some big calls in relation to a few guys who were senior players under the previous management. Took courage as does dropping Charlie Carter, Cha Fitzpatrick etc etc but that's what the great managers do." It's a fair point. Cillian isn't a guaranteed starter whereas last year it looked like we had 14 players and the 15th was guaranteed for Cillian when he was fit. Difference between training fit and being sharp and hungry though. No team can hope to improve without serious competition for places and strong management who will pick players in current form, not what they did in previous years.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 10/03/2023 09:27:33
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Replying To Mayonman: "As we go into the last block of league games what are peoples opinions on where we are?
For me on the plus side
-I think we found a few defenders. E Kelly, Mulcahy & Mcgrath look up to it.
-Cathal Sweeney has stepped up which after the last kick boo boo against Mayo took balls.
-Cooke is a good addition
-Finnerty keeps getting better
-Avoided serious injuries
-Rested Walsh & Comer (enforced but rested all the same)
-Tierney stepping up a level
-Forward line is exceptional when we have at least 2 of Walsh/Finnerty/Comer
On the negative side
-Was hoping Mulkerrins & McLoughlin would get some game time. 2 potentially huge additions to the squad. Might happen yet
-Very little depth up front when it comes to scoring forwards
-Our kick outs are better but only marginally
Overall I am happy. I think PJ has knows a few lads probably are not up to it so while it is a negative, we won't be finding out in a Connacht Semi Final. Ian Burke being back is a positive but at the same time he has not really fired yet. I think he is worth persevering with....class is permanent.
Our athleticism is huge and we seem to be starting to move it up a notch again as the league progresses. It wouldn't surprise me to see a flat performance in the next game as they could take the break between games as an opportunity for a hard block of training.
Looking at the new structure it will be very hard NOT to make an AI Q/F so timing your training blocks etc is going to be crucial. Wouldn't it be lovely to pick up some silverware along the way. I think getting to a league final would be good for the group (we have a break before championship) and having a crack off Kerry in the last league game also. We don't beat them too often and I think it is important to start doing it more regularly and remove any mystique (outside of Clifford they are good but not supermen)" Culhane got injured at the wrong time, would have started against Roscommon, Tyrone, Donegal & Monaghan. He's still only 20 or 21, have high hopes for him.
Joyce didn't seem to positive on Mulkerins playing much football this year when he talked about him in January, not sure what the issue is with McLaughlin? Missed a lot of games in recent years with injuries, he's some talent though!
TheBishop (Galway) - Posts: 260 - 10/03/2023 10:39:04
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Replying To GreenandRed: "It's a fair point. Cillian isn't a guaranteed starter whereas last year it looked like we had 14 players and the 15th was guaranteed for Cillian when he was fit. Difference between training fit and being sharp and hungry though. No team can hope to improve without serious competition for places and strong management who will pick players in current form, not what they did in previous years." Cillian isn't a guaranteed starter now because ROD and Conroy are fit. That wasn't the case last summer.
Do you think someone else should have started ahead of Cillian last year?
MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 420 - 10/03/2023 10:54:03
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