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Galway Hurling thread

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "It waa probably the lowest quality Galway county final in years though so Thomas's would want to step up a lot on that performance themselves if they are to make a game of it against Ballygunner."
True.
The standard of Galway Club Hurling has definitely taken a dive in recent years. No reflection on St. Thomas but no one has seriously challenged them at the business end of the Championship. They have never met anything like Ballygunner in Galway.

SixtiesKid (Galway) - Posts: 290 - 07/12/2023 11:59:25    2515850

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Replying To SixtiesKid:  "True.
The standard of Galway Club Hurling has definitely taken a dive in recent years. No reflection on St. Thomas but no one has seriously challenged them at the business end of the Championship. They have never met anything like Ballygunner in Galway."
Why do you think this is? Genuine question

We have produced great minor teams in recent years, who obviously havent become a great senior team, but you'd imagine it should translate to a great club championship at least.

Taking Thomas' out, there is an extremely competitive championship, but that doesnt explain the drop in standard.

I cant put my finger on it.

GalwaysFinest (Galway) - Posts: 179 - 07/12/2023 14:19:05    2515871

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Depends on the the Thomas's that show up. If to go by the two Ballyhale games in recent years as a more qualified gauge it could go two ways. If it's the 2019 level performance they could get wiped or if they replicated the 2021 performance they could win. I'd have that Ballyhale team (usually able to keep Ballygunner at arms reach over 3 games bar the Harry Ruddle goal) at an even higher level to Ballygunner but still close enough. You'd hope it'd be the 2021. If they have everyone and performed to their max they'd definitely be the best team Ballygunner have played so far this year but they've had enough bad days at this stage to show that's definitely not a given...granted they've probably never a full hand to pick from and don't have any real panel depth but still have not performed to what has been expected. I'd still imagine Ballygunner won't slip up here and know with Ballyhale gone this is a huge chance for them to win the all Ireland.

Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin (Wexford) - Posts: 224 - 07/12/2023 20:32:53    2515922

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Replying To GalwaysFinest:  "Why do you think this is? Genuine question

We have produced great minor teams in recent years, who obviously havent become a great senior team, but you'd imagine it should translate to a great club championship at least.

Taking Thomas' out, there is an extremely competitive championship, but that doesnt explain the drop in standard.

I cant put my finger on it."
I'm not so sure that's correct in reality, 'competitive' and 'high quality' don't really go hand in hand and never have, really. One is not a consequence of the other. Though it's a competitive championship, its not like Toms are murdering all before them en route to comfortable championship success. They have to earn it, and that they do is a credit to them. Last year they won the final narrowly after a replay, that's as competitive as it gets, really.

I'm more interested in your theory that 'great minor teams' should translate to a 'great club championship'

Why would it? The minor team in any given year is made up of players from clubs of all grades at adult level. Who are under 17. Boys not men.

I can only surmise that the thinking behind the 'drop in standards' notion is that Toms are consistently winning in Galway but not when they go further, I can only imagine that if Toms were winning All Irelands, or at least getting to finals, we wouldn't be claiming the standard was inferior to the days when Portumna carried all before them, including outside the county.

I mean, when you refer to a 'drop in standard' what does that actually entail? Genuine question. Is the club championship actually inferior to previous years and if so, on what basis? Was there a 'glorious era' that I missed that the current championship is overshadowed by?

Stool Pigeon (Galway) - Posts: 812 - 08/12/2023 10:14:43    2515954

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Replying To Stool Pigeon:  "I'm not so sure that's correct in reality, 'competitive' and 'high quality' don't really go hand in hand and never have, really. One is not a consequence of the other. Though it's a competitive championship, its not like Toms are murdering all before them en route to comfortable championship success. They have to earn it, and that they do is a credit to them. Last year they won the final narrowly after a replay, that's as competitive as it gets, really.

I'm more interested in your theory that 'great minor teams' should translate to a 'great club championship'

Why would it? The minor team in any given year is made up of players from clubs of all grades at adult level. Who are under 17. Boys not men.

I can only surmise that the thinking behind the 'drop in standards' notion is that Toms are consistently winning in Galway but not when they go further, I can only imagine that if Toms were winning All Irelands, or at least getting to finals, we wouldn't be claiming the standard was inferior to the days when Portumna carried all before them, including outside the county.

I mean, when you refer to a 'drop in standard' what does that actually entail? Genuine question. Is the club championship actually inferior to previous years and if so, on what basis? Was there a 'glorious era' that I missed that the current championship is overshadowed by?"
Because we have produced great minor winning teams from a variety of clubs across the county.

My theory is that a lot of clubs should be benefitting from the introduction of these up and coming players.

Look at the county minor panels from the last 10 years, where we have won multiple all irelands, theres a big spread of clubs.

Even if this hasnt translated into senior intercounty success, my thinking is the clubs in Galway should be benefitting at least.

GalwaysFinest (Galway) - Posts: 179 - 08/12/2023 11:22:45    2515967

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Replying To Stool Pigeon:  "I'm not so sure that's correct in reality, 'competitive' and 'high quality' don't really go hand in hand and never have, really. One is not a consequence of the other. Though it's a competitive championship, its not like Toms are murdering all before them en route to comfortable championship success. They have to earn it, and that they do is a credit to them. Last year they won the final narrowly after a replay, that's as competitive as it gets, really.

I'm more interested in your theory that 'great minor teams' should translate to a 'great club championship'

Why would it? The minor team in any given year is made up of players from clubs of all grades at adult level. Who are under 17. Boys not men.

I can only surmise that the thinking behind the 'drop in standards' notion is that Toms are consistently winning in Galway but not when they go further, I can only imagine that if Toms were winning All Irelands, or at least getting to finals, we wouldn't be claiming the standard was inferior to the days when Portumna carried all before them, including outside the county.

I mean, when you refer to a 'drop in standard' what does that actually entail? Genuine question. Is the club championship actually inferior to previous years and if so, on what basis? Was there a 'glorious era' that I missed that the current championship is overshadowed by?"
We have a very competitive club championship. At the start of the year 9 of the Senior clubs and probably around the same number of Intermediate probably felt they could get to a final and maybe win it. But that doesn't mean the standard was particularly high. Only that everyone was around the same standard.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 10263 - 08/12/2023 12:16:45    2515986

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Replying To GalwaysFinest:  "Because we have produced great minor winning teams from a variety of clubs across the county.

My theory is that a lot of clubs should be benefitting from the introduction of these up and coming players.

Look at the county minor panels from the last 10 years, where we have won multiple all irelands, theres a big spread of clubs.

Even if this hasnt translated into senior intercounty success, my thinking is the clubs in Galway should be benefitting at least."
They are (benefitting). This year's minors had a huge spread of clubs represented for example, on the main and extended panels. I imagine next year will be similar as will future years.

But you have to remember that these clubs are also losing players to retirement, emigration, life commitments etc. so these things balance out, if a very good older player is replaced by a very good younger one the level of the team doesn't rise. Also, in the bigger clubs, being a county minor certainly isn't going to get you handed a senior club jersey.

We have a minor team every year, win or lose. Last year's team might turn out to produce more players than the 2015 -2018 vintage. The 2001 team lost the final but over half of that team played senior IC for example.

What would be worth assessing (and I'm not asking anyone to do it) is how many of the Galway minors from the last 10 years have even played adult hurling for their club's first team? I'm willing to bet the number is quite a bit lower than might be anticipated.

Stool Pigeon (Galway) - Posts: 812 - 08/12/2023 13:14:00    2516001

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Replying To Viking66:  "We have a very competitive club championship. At the start of the year 9 of the Senior clubs and probably around the same number of Intermediate probably felt they could get to a final and maybe win it. But that doesn't mean the standard was particularly high. Only that everyone was around the same standard."
It's better that the matches be competitive rather than having one club dominating, for example it's likely that the likes of Mount Sion etc. in Waterford would be able to hold their own in many other club championships but they can't live with Ballygunner, which must really take from the Waterford county championship overall.

But at least when everyone feels they have a shot the morale stays high and the crowds will come to watch in anticipation of a competitive game. And when you boil it down, that's what you want at a minimum as a paying observer.

Give me the Wexford championship over Waterford even though the Wexford champions (Naomh Éanna?) might struggle to keep it pucked out to Ballygunner in the Leinster club series

Stool Pigeon (Galway) - Posts: 812 - 08/12/2023 13:18:59    2516002

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Replying To Stool Pigeon:  "It's better that the matches be competitive rather than having one club dominating, for example it's likely that the likes of Mount Sion etc. in Waterford would be able to hold their own in many other club championships but they can't live with Ballygunner, which must really take from the Waterford county championship overall.

But at least when everyone feels they have a shot the morale stays high and the crowds will come to watch in anticipation of a competitive game. And when you boil it down, that's what you want at a minimum as a paying observer.

Give me the Wexford championship over Waterford even though the Wexford champions (Naomh Éanna?) might struggle to keep it pucked out to Ballygunner in the Leinster club series"
The Leinster-Munster club series you mean!

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1868 - 08/12/2023 13:31:09    2516010

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Replying To Stool Pigeon:  "It's better that the matches be competitive rather than having one club dominating, for example it's likely that the likes of Mount Sion etc. in Waterford would be able to hold their own in many other club championships but they can't live with Ballygunner, which must really take from the Waterford county championship overall.

But at least when everyone feels they have a shot the morale stays high and the crowds will come to watch in anticipation of a competitive game. And when you boil it down, that's what you want at a minimum as a paying observer.

Give me the Wexford championship over Waterford even though the Wexford champions (Naomh Éanna?) might struggle to keep it pucked out to Ballygunner in the Leinster club series"
Agree 100% it's far better to have a championshipwhere you just don't know who will win it. Although if Gorey got their S and C up to Ballygunners standards I think they have better hurlers tbh. There's a few lads on that team that would likely be intercounty starters but won't commit to play for Wexford because they don't want to put the work in. They will likely have 3 or 4 starters on our team next year apart from those too. And there are a few more with recent u20 experience including the lad who marked Screeney and held him to 1-1 from play, and that goal a lucky break.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 10263 - 08/12/2023 13:34:43    2516011

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