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Replying To BostonGuy: "Your point on clubs is well taken, and not saying club players turn professional it remains amateur and people play for the love of the game. The players that are at a county level are identified pretty early on and many would love the opportunity to play professionally IMHO, I know I would have if I was good enough. Look at football, how many players moved to Oz to play professionally, they are lost to their clubs and county and TBH they would prefer to be playing Gaelic professionally if given a choice. Academies should have tie ins to apprenticeships, entrepreneurial workshops and colleges for those who don't make it. Most other sports do this
Lets not kid ourselves here, top level GAA players are training at a professional level and holding down a job. They may train different muscle groups based on the specific sports but they are every bit as fit as professional athletes. The main difference is pros get massive recovery time, I have seen pros "work" 3-4 hours MAX a day, including breaks and nutrition intake and the rest is recovery and study.
Professionalism is a scary thought and Im sure it was the same for Rugby in the 80's. What happens to the clubs, how do we pay for it. We also had top teams like the All Blacks, most of who's occupations were listed as "sheep farmer" beating the *** out of Irish teams who were real amateurs. The ABs have never been as dominant in the professional era as they were pros before everyone else, whereas Ireland has flourished.
As for everyone having the same approach, and we are back as square one, that breeds mediocrity. The bruins here in Boston were bad for many years because they were more interested in selling hot dogs and beer...until their sponsorship, viewership and TV rights dropped and they had to invest in the product. Commercialization of a product can be a good thing, it means there is an audience who are willing to purchase, promote and debate the product. It means competition for sponsorship and tie-ins and it also puts accountability and transparency in place. Typically professionalism follows suit to provide and improve the product.
As for Cork, yes they have dropped their standards mid-decade from the standards brought in under Donal O Grady. I wonder how many players from Cork have taken up opportunities in professional academies with the opportunity to play professional sports. Looking at the athletes in the 05 team there were a lot of players that could have played many professional sports. I wonder how many more will take the opportunity to make a career from their God given skills." A 'leap of faith' there for a finish, to be speculating in such a matter of fact manner about the exact origin of athletic ability.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4091 - 01/08/2023 19:46:00
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Replying To tommy k: "Just heard of the sad passing of Jimmy Cooney. Helped Galway bridge a 57 year gap to win the 1980 AI and won all-stars as a teak tough cornerback in 1980 and 1981. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam." Teak tough is right. May he rest in peace
Greenandgoldie (Westmeath) - Posts: 154 - 01/08/2023 20:42:43
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Replying To tommy k: "Just heard of the sad passing of Jimmy Cooney. Helped Galway bridge a 57 year gap to win the 1980 AI and won all-stars as a teak tough cornerback in 1980 and 1981. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam." 100% agree, he gave a lot to his club and county both as a player and a ref. Too many of the 1980 team gone before their time RIP
BostonGuy (Galway) - Posts: 160 - 02/08/2023 01:34:31
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Replying To Viking66: "Agree with most of that except that for counties that haven't won much at that grade, or even more importantly at any grade, recently, an AI U20 would be celebrated and rightly so. Obviously nothing like a Senior AI as you say!" You are absolutely right and that was an arrogant comment on my part
My point was just that Galway have had massive success at underage level for the last 10 years but no one really bats an eyelid. For the counties that expect to compete every year that's all that matters really
Kinvara (Galway) - Posts: 200 - 02/08/2023 09:37:07
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Replying To Kinvara: "You are absolutely right and that was an arrogant comment on my part
My point was just that Galway have had massive success at underage level for the last 10 years but no one really bats an eyelid. For the counties that expect to compete every year that's all that matters really" It's gone well past batting eyelids at this stage hopefully. Many are more likely to be shaking their heads in disbelief imo, at the poor performance level of numerous recent Galway u20/u21 sides stacked with players who enjoyed what you describe as 'massive success at underage level'.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4091 - 02/08/2023 11:31:18
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Replying To Stool Pigeon: "Why would you automatically assume the senior clubs' minor sides should be playing in a higher division than they are?
Where is the link between the two? Why would you assume a 'strong senior club' automatically has a 'strong minor club'?
What the competitions are called is irrelevant also. Who cares?
They could call them pink, green, blue, yellow, brown and purple for all the difference it makes." That is a disappointing reply, it actually does matter a lot, calling a division B1 or B2 is a camouflage job for division 5 and division 6. That is the standard it is. By calling it anthing else such as orange, green pink or B1, B2 etc is a cover up job.The current underage grading is in need of a serious review. It is my belief some clubs need to be more honest with themselves, their parents and their players. Eventually they'll realise they won't be able to compete at Senior standard if they compete at such a low underage standard. The county board also have an obligation to grow hurling in non traditional hurling areas.
GDL (Galway) - Posts: 791 - 02/08/2023 11:50:33
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Replying To tommy k: "Just heard of the sad passing of Jimmy Cooney. Helped Galway bridge a 57 year gap to win the 1980 AI and won all-stars as a teak tough cornerback in 1980 and 1981. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam." Very sad and shocking news about Jimmy, couldn't believe it when I heard he had died. He was a lovely decent good honest man. May he R.I.P.
katser (Galway) - Posts: 2550 - 02/08/2023 12:04:29
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Replying To GDL: "That is a disappointing reply, it actually does matter a lot, calling a division B1 or B2 is a camouflage job for division 5 and division 6. That is the standard it is. By calling it anthing else such as orange, green pink or B1, B2 etc is a cover up job.The current underage grading is in need of a serious review. It is my belief some clubs need to be more honest with themselves, their parents and their players. Eventually they'll realise they won't be able to compete at Senior standard if they compete at such a low underage standard. The county board also have an obligation to grow hurling in non traditional hurling areas." I could never understand the idea of this A, A1, B,B1, C, C1 system at underage. The old system of A B and C was fine.
The old Minor B was extremely competitive as was u16 and u21 and when you won it you definitely were well prepared for the top A grade.
Happened to myself, won the Minor B and u21B and the following year lost the Minor A Final and lost u21A Semi Final. By then you were well ready to step up to Senior or Intermediate.
katser (Galway) - Posts: 2550 - 02/08/2023 13:49:41
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Jimmy Cooney R.I.P , a decent man
preddan (Kildare) - Posts: 796 - 02/08/2023 13:54:40
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Replying To Pope_Benedict: "A 'leap of faith' there for a finish, to be speculating in such a matter of fact manner about the exact origin of athletic ability." Its the "Messi versus Ronaldo" argument, but most athletes take what was God Given (Or for the WOKE brigade - DNA given) and can turn it into greatness. What Joe Canning had and David Clifford has is not from a training field, it can be honed and focused there but its God/DNA given. You can't take a 5 foot midget and make them a world class basketball player, the raw material has to be there.
Many of these skills and definitely the athleticism are transferable to other sports Aussie rules, golf, soccer, rugby. We are even seeing US colleges looking at Gaelic for punters and kickers, and I believe in my lifetime we will see an Irish footballer play in the NFL so I do stand by my point "God Given" ability.
BostonGuy (Galway) - Posts: 160 - 02/08/2023 16:34:02
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Replying To GDL: "That is a disappointing reply, it actually does matter a lot, calling a division B1 or B2 is a camouflage job for division 5 and division 6. That is the standard it is. By calling it anthing else such as orange, green pink or B1, B2 etc is a cover up job.The current underage grading is in need of a serious review. It is my belief some clubs need to be more honest with themselves, their parents and their players. Eventually they'll realise they won't be able to compete at Senior standard if they compete at such a low underage standard. The county board also have an obligation to grow hurling in non traditional hurling areas." Well, you can be as disappointed as you like, I wasn't aware I was supposed to be impressing you.
I don't know what they are supposed to be 'covering up' in this 'cover up job'.
I mean it literally doesn't matter if Division B3 is the title of the actual Division 7 or whatever, what matters is whether you're competing at the grade you should be. Of course some clubs will try to hoover up trophies at a lower grade than they 'should' be in, that has and will always happen unfortunately, but even then, sometimes it happens following previous season's results etc, I don't think it's a problem on a big scale, and even if it was, the clubs you refer to are only fooling themselves, after all, as you implied.
Surely that would make it a problem for the clubs concerned though and not the county board. There's enough grief coming their (CB's) way as it is without nailing them for things that literally have nothing to do with them.
I suppose the english soccer bods are fooling themselves too, with their 'Premier league, Championship, League One, League two'
God be with the good old days when it was Division 1, 2, 3 and 4 eh?
Stool Pigeon (Galway) - Posts: 906 - 02/08/2023 21:37:31
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Replying To fishpond: "LAST year he cost us an under 20 all Ireland by taking two lads of the roster. they havent been heard from since . all right they are on the 26 roster but havent played a MINUTE. THe first sub he brought on was CONOR COONEY at 58 minutes against Limerick. GIMME A BREAK. If thats not closing the stable door after the horse is gone I dont know what is" None of that answers what I asked you?
Stool Pigeon (Galway) - Posts: 906 - 02/08/2023 21:38:42
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Replying To BostonGuy: "Its the "Messi versus Ronaldo" argument, but most athletes take what was God Given (Or for the WOKE brigade - DNA given) and can turn it into greatness. What Joe Canning had and David Clifford has is not from a training field, it can be honed and focused there but its God/DNA given. You can't take a 5 foot midget and make them a world class basketball player, the raw material has to be there.
Many of these skills and definitely the athleticism are transferable to other sports Aussie rules, golf, soccer, rugby. We are even seeing US colleges looking at Gaelic for punters and kickers, and I believe in my lifetime we will see an Irish footballer play in the NFL so I do stand by my point "God Given" ability." What is the opposite of 'WOKE'?
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4091 - 02/08/2023 21:53:14
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Replying To BostonGuy: "Your point on clubs is well taken, and not saying club players turn professional it remains amateur and people play for the love of the game. The players that are at a county level are identified pretty early on and many would love the opportunity to play professionally IMHO, I know I would have if I was good enough. Look at football, how many players moved to Oz to play professionally, they are lost to their clubs and county and TBH they would prefer to be playing Gaelic professionally if given a choice. Academies should have tie ins to apprenticeships, entrepreneurial workshops and colleges for those who don't make it. Most other sports do this
Lets not kid ourselves here, top level GAA players are training at a professional level and holding down a job. They may train different muscle groups based on the specific sports but they are every bit as fit as professional athletes. The main difference is pros get massive recovery time, I have seen pros "work" 3-4 hours MAX a day, including breaks and nutrition intake and the rest is recovery and study.
Professionalism is a scary thought and Im sure it was the same for Rugby in the 80's. What happens to the clubs, how do we pay for it. We also had top teams like the All Blacks, most of who's occupations were listed as "sheep farmer" beating the *** out of Irish teams who were real amateurs. The ABs have never been as dominant in the professional era as they were pros before everyone else, whereas Ireland has flourished.
As for everyone having the same approach, and we are back as square one, that breeds mediocrity. The bruins here in Boston were bad for many years because they were more interested in selling hot dogs and beer...until their sponsorship, viewership and TV rights dropped and they had to invest in the product. Commercialization of a product can be a good thing, it means there is an audience who are willing to purchase, promote and debate the product. It means competition for sponsorship and tie-ins and it also puts accountability and transparency in place. Typically professionalism follows suit to provide and improve the product.
As for Cork, yes they have dropped their standards mid-decade from the standards brought in under Donal O Grady. I wonder how many players from Cork have taken up opportunities in professional academies with the opportunity to play professional sports. Looking at the athletes in the 05 team there were a lot of players that could have played many professional sports. I wonder how many more will take the opportunity to make a career from their God given skills." not saying club players turn professional it remains amateur and people play for the love of the game. The players that are at a county level are identified pretty early on and many would love the opportunity to play professionally IMHO, I know I would have if I was good enough
I'm honestly not trying to be be snide but you have sunk the case for professionalism below the waterline here.
You would have to have a situation where you would be taking swathes of (say) 14 year olds away from their clubs, for that is what would have to happen (as in professional football), away from hurling with and against their friends, and for what?
'Maybe' forging a semi-professional career (because let's be realistic, the money is not and never ever will be there to support fully professional GAA). Even at 14 years old, I would estimate the majority would probably not trade playing with their club, their friends and supporters to chase a career that wouldn't support them by itself.
Maybe you would have loved to turn pro if you were good enough (personally if I was good enough I'd be a golf pro, but it's all the one), we all wanted to be soccer players as kids, but being hamstrung by an unfortunate lack of actual talent sunk that dream for most of us, but in reality there are plenty of players who would refuse to turn professional tomorrow if they have a job that funds their lifestyle in a way professional GAA wouldn't. How would they justify it?
There are countless cases of excellent semi-professional footballers who could go full-time but refuse to because they won't take the drop in income as a result of giving up their 'day job'.
To make it in any way attractive you would have to sign players to multi - year contracts at, say, 18. Would there be a transfer market too, maybe JP McManus will go all Saudi and make unrefusable offers for the likes of Tony Kelly and Whelan, I mean it's a professional game now, so money does the talking right?
It's obviously easier to knock down a wall than to build it but you haven't helped your case here at all.
There are lots of players in any IC level hurling squad who could have 'played many professional sports' as there are very few sports that require the dexterity and coordination of hurling. But here's the thing, you would still be losing those Cork players to the professional sports regardless. And rightly so. Hurling is a glorious sport, but it is essentially a high level hobby.
Stool Pigeon (Galway) - Posts: 906 - 02/08/2023 22:01:10
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Replying To katser: "I could never understand the idea of this A, A1, B,B1, C, C1 system at underage. The old system of A B and C was fine.
The old Minor B was extremely competitive as was u16 and u21 and when you won it you definitely were well prepared for the top A grade.
Happened to myself, won the Minor B and u21B and the following year lost the Minor A Final and lost u21A Semi Final. By then you were well ready to step up to Senior or Intermediate." Maybe it's because the Parishes are different sizes and populations…there's probably no FAIR way to administer who plays who…..
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2485 - 03/08/2023 00:29:45
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Replying To BostonGuy: "Its the "Messi versus Ronaldo" argument, but most athletes take what was God Given (Or for the WOKE brigade - DNA given) and can turn it into greatness. What Joe Canning had and David Clifford has is not from a training field, it can be honed and focused there but its God/DNA given. You can't take a 5 foot midget and make them a world class basketball player, the raw material has to be there.
Many of these skills and definitely the athleticism are transferable to other sports Aussie rules, golf, soccer, rugby. We are even seeing US colleges looking at Gaelic for punters and kickers, and I believe in my lifetime we will see an Irish footballer play in the NFL so I do stand by my point "God Given" ability." Absolutely agree with you BostonGuy. Money do not make a Henry, Joe C or a Cian Lynch either. Without raw talent you are at nothing. Of course a good management team and proper coaching does help, but it not everything.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4490 - 03/08/2023 07:40:21
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Replying To Oldtourman: "Absolutely agree with you BostonGuy. Money do not make a Henry, Joe C or a Cian Lynch either. Without raw talent you are at nothing. Of course a good management team and proper coaching does help, but it not everything." Looking forward to the Intermediate HC kicking off tomorrow. Kinvara vs TAD
Interesting that Mattie Kenny is the Tynagh manager this year, quite a big fish in a small pond there! They will be heavy favourites for the championship
Kinvara (Galway) - Posts: 200 - 03/08/2023 11:55:50
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Replying To Kinvara: "Looking forward to the Intermediate HC kicking off tomorrow. Kinvara vs TAD
Interesting that Mattie Kenny is the Tynagh manager this year, quite a big fish in a small pond there! They will be heavy favourites for the championship" They should be winning it alright, all things being equal, but of course, all things often aren't :)
The benefit of 3 teams qualifying for the knockouts from 4 means that at least clubs riddled with injuries will have a bit more breathing space.
Hoping for a performance tomorrow, anyway, and take it from there
Stool Pigeon (Galway) - Posts: 906 - 03/08/2023 12:49:53
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Club championship starts tomorrow evening so time for the predictions.
Senior A
Portunma v turloughmore turlough by 3
Cappataggle v kilconiron cappy by 8
Loughrea v moycullen Loughrea by 5
St Thomas's v gort Thomas's by 6
Clarinbridge v oranmore Clarinbridge by 3
Tommy larkins v killimordaly killimordaly by 1
Castlegar v ardrahan castlegar by 2
Sarsfields v craughwell (I think this game is off due to the sad passing of Jimmy cooney rip )
Senior b
Mullagh v mellows mellows by 5
Ahrascragh v athreny athreny by 4
Beagh v killimor killimor by 3
Pearses v kilnadeema kilnadeema letrim by 4
Intermediate
Kinvara v tynagh-abbey/Duniry tad by 5
Ballygar v abbeyknockmoy abbey by 1
An spiddle v ballindeeren b'deeren by 7
Turloughmore v Carnmore carnmore by 3
Clarinbridge v kilbancanty the bridge by 1
Sylane v annaghdown sylane by 3. Kiltromer v rahoon Newcastle rahoon by 6
Craughwell v meelick/eyrecourt eyercourt by 8
Clarinbridge v oranmore probably the game of the weekend. A local Derby and both teams have great young players coming through the ranks. And both have a good mixture young and experience.
Off_the_post (Galway) - Posts: 8 - 03/08/2023 14:49:35
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Replying To Kinvara: "Looking forward to the Intermediate HC kicking off tomorrow. Kinvara vs TAD
Interesting that Mattie Kenny is the Tynagh manager this year, quite a big fish in a small pond there! They will be heavy favourites for the championship" Olly will be pleased you said that!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15490 - 03/08/2023 15:39:57
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