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Replying To tommy k: "Would agree with the pope on that. KK, Galway and Clare are basically at the same level and yet KK get 5 on TSG team of the year to Galway's 1. I think Cathal Mannion may feel hard done by as he had a good year even though he wasn't involved in all of the games and Daithi Burke was also very solid in general throughout all the games." KK, Galway and Clare are basically at the same level and yet KK get 5 on TSG team of the year to Galway's 1
Agree they are much of a muchness but the difference is KK got to the AI final and Galway didn't.
Getting to the final makes a big difference in those teams of the year selections.
Looking at Galway this year - Whelan was class. But being honest about it nobody else was consistently good.
Can't really complain about it.
galwayman2 (Galway) - Posts: 1307 - 25/07/2023 14:36:39
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Replying To John Doe: "Ah don't be so stupid to believe that something on the front of a jersey is a reason why a team is not winning. I've never heard such utter rubbish.
Limerick are simply too good for everyone at present and ARE the best team of all time. Their sheer power and physicality would blow away any of the great teams of the past such as Kilkenny's 4 in a row team in the 00's.
Galway like other posters have said are just too inconsistent and can never be relied upon to put a string of results together.
While is was fantastic I believe we were very fortunate to win the All Ireland in 2017 as I firmly believe the only reason we won it is because it was only Waterford in the final. Can anyone honestly say we would have beaten a Kilkenny or Tipp in a final - I don't think so. I know people will say we beat Tipp in the semi but a final is a different story altogether. Would have been a shame if Joe never got to win one so we'll take it but can't see another one coming anytime soon." How were we fortunate, we were the best team in the country in 2017.
What you're doing there is speculating negatively for no purpose. We beat Waterford cos they qualified for the final. They were good enough to get there, beat Kilkenny pretty handily IIRC. In 2017 we would likely have beaten anyone we played in the final.
Stool Pigeon (Galway) - Posts: 906 - 25/07/2023 14:40:14
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Replying To BostonGuy: "The problem is that Galway had too much success too early and too often. It probably would have served Galway better if they had an Under 20 All Ireland win recently, take that team en masse and built around them. When there is this continuous U17/8 success and no path to senior progress something is broken in the process. Offaly, Clare, Kilkenny and even Limericks AI success was backboned by and single underage success that they brought to fruition at senior level. Will this Cork U20 team be the next Limerick, or Clare U18s make the jump. Offaly had an excellent (and unfortunate) minor team last year, I would love to see that team come through and compete in years to come. Galway are a rebuild, lots of miles on the clock but hard to see where the players are going to come from." In what world is having too much success a problem?
There is a huge difference between U17 and even U20 never mind senior.
If there is a problem, it's one of raised expectations when a bunch of schoolboys win a hurling competition and we somehow equate this with 'inevitable' senior success, down the road, then when it doesn't happen, we blame the players because 'they raised our expectations'. It's utterly bizarre.
All those young men did was have the temerity to win a national competition. Or compete heavily for it.
The players are going to come from the same place they have always come from, but now that the minors are playing (up to) 7 matches a year and the U20's are playing at least 4, we ought to see the benefit from this going forward.
This year's Clare U18's are likely to have maybe 3 players at most who make it to established senior level. That would be about the average. It will likely be the same for us. If either team got more than that they would be bucking the trend because the S&C requirements are so high now and no amount of talent is going to bridge that gap and U17's are looking at a minimum 4-5 year wait unless they are exceptional. There aren't many 20 year olds playing McCarthy hurling now.
Stool Pigeon (Galway) - Posts: 906 - 25/07/2023 14:50:47
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Replying To Stool Pigeon: "How were we fortunate, we were the best team in the country in 2017.
What you're doing there is speculating negatively for no purpose. We beat Waterford cos they qualified for the final. They were good enough to get there, beat Kilkenny pretty handily IIRC. In 2017 we would likely have beaten anyone we played in the final." Think so too. And maybe you should've won 1 before that as well. And maybe 2018.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15471 - 25/07/2023 14:58:19
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Replying To Viking66: "Think so too. And maybe you should've won 1 before that as well. And maybe 2018." Oh definitely 2018 we left it behind us.
katser (Galway) - Posts: 2549 - 25/07/2023 15:13:19
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Replying To Pope_Benedict: "You must be Jackie Tyrrell or Cody? A couple of comments on here doesn't mean 'Galway' is whinging about anything. Can you tell us how TJ Reid merits selection on the 2023 SG team of the year, and how Mick Butler gets selected ahead of Nash or Casey? KK lost that final spell last Sunday by 0-21 to 0-6. How that equates to FIVE 'all-star' selections is beyond daft." Clare Kilkenny and Galway were worth 2 each and the rest to Limerick
SixtiesKid (Galway) - Posts: 342 - 25/07/2023 15:31:46
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Replying To katser: "Oh definitely 2018 we left it behind us." Losing the final of 2018 still bothers me even five years later. We did not turn up at all, gifted Limerick three goals, and still only lost by a point. I know it's all ifs and buts, but had Joe pointed that late free, there is no doubt in mind that we would have beaten them in extra time, and losing after been so far head yet again, would have destroyed Limerick mentally. Okay with the talent that they have, I have no doubt that Limerick team would have eventually come to the fore, but who knows we could have been going for our own three in a row in 2019.
gilly1910 (Galway) - Posts: 181 - 25/07/2023 16:25:27
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Replying To John Doe: "Ah don't be so stupid to believe that something on the front of a jersey is a reason why a team is not winning. I've never heard such utter rubbish.
Limerick are simply too good for everyone at present and ARE the best team of all time. Their sheer power and physicality would blow away any of the great teams of the past such as Kilkenny's 4 in a row team in the 00's.
Galway like other posters have said are just too inconsistent and can never be relied upon to put a string of results together.
While is was fantastic I believe we were very fortunate to win the All Ireland in 2017 as I firmly believe the only reason we won it is because it was only Waterford in the final. Can anyone honestly say we would have beaten a Kilkenny or Tipp in a final - I don't think so. I know people will say we beat Tipp in the semi but a final is a different story altogether. Would have been a shame if Joe never got to win one so we'll take it but can't see another one coming anytime soon." I see what you're saying, but didn't Galway in '87 beat KK in the final and Tipp in '88? Admittedly, their overall record in finals is quite poor. And fortunate in 2017? Yeah, they probably were. But most winning teams are often fortunate: Limk in the semi-final of 2018 versus Cork. And that Waterford beat Tipp this year to help Limerick into the Munster final.
Pre-2017, most of that Galway team had lots of good hurling done and went very close in 2012 and 2015, so on the law of averages it was just that they got over the line that day vs. Waterford in 2017.
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2194 - 25/07/2023 17:06:47
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Replying To foreveryoung: "I see what you're saying, but didn't Galway in '87 beat KK in the final and Tipp in '88? Admittedly, their overall record in finals is quite poor. And fortunate in 2017? Yeah, they probably were. But most winning teams are often fortunate: Limk in the semi-final of 2018 versus Cork. And that Waterford beat Tipp this year to help Limerick into the Munster final.
Pre-2017, most of that Galway team had lots of good hurling done and went very close in 2012 and 2015, so on the law of averages it was just that they got over the line that day vs. Waterford in 2017." In fairness Galway conceded 2 very soft goals in the first half to Waterford in 2017 (as happens to Galway teams too often admittedly) but a bit like in the Tipp game this year, Galway were at least 8 points better than Waterford that year. Galway had avoidable draws before winning the replays v KK and Clare in 2018 so they were tired mentally and physically in the final but like Gilly said if JC had pointed that last free I have no doubt they would have won the replay (not sure if extra time was an option at that time).
tommy k (Galway) - Posts: 3470 - 25/07/2023 19:12:24
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Replying To foreveryoung: "I see what you're saying, but didn't Galway in '87 beat KK in the final and Tipp in '88? Admittedly, their overall record in finals is quite poor. And fortunate in 2017? Yeah, they probably were. But most winning teams are often fortunate: Limk in the semi-final of 2018 versus Cork. And that Waterford beat Tipp this year to help Limerick into the Munster final.
Pre-2017, most of that Galway team had lots of good hurling done and went very close in 2012 and 2015, so on the law of averages it was just that they got over the line that day vs. Waterford in 2017." They weren't very close in 2015. They weren't fortunste in 2017 either particularly, winning the League final and Leinster Final handily enough. One key aspect of 'good fortune' Galway enjoyed 2015-2017 was that Barry Kelly reffed the Tipp trilogy of semis. I've said it before, I'll say it again, if James Owens reffed that trilogy, Tipperary win all 3 games imo.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4085 - 25/07/2023 19:28:49
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Replying To gilly1910: "Losing the final of 2018 still bothers me even five years later. We did not turn up at all, gifted Limerick three goals, and still only lost by a point. I know it's all ifs and buts, but had Joe pointed that late free, there is no doubt in mind that we would have beaten them in extra time, and losing after been so far head yet again, would have destroyed Limerick mentally. Okay with the talent that they have, I have no doubt that Limerick team would have eventually come to the fore, but who knows we could have been going for our own three in a row in 2019." In 2018 wouldn't it have gone straight to a replay without any extra time? That's what happened in 2012, 2013, and 2014 anyway.
Lots of ifs, buts, and ands alright!
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2194 - 25/07/2023 19:50:10
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Replying To gilly1910: "Losing the final of 2018 still bothers me even five years later. We did not turn up at all, gifted Limerick three goals, and still only lost by a point. I know it's all ifs and buts, but had Joe pointed that late free, there is no doubt in mind that we would have beaten them in extra time, and losing after been so far head yet again, would have destroyed Limerick mentally. Okay with the talent that they have, I have no doubt that Limerick team would have eventually come to the fore, but who knows we could have been going for our own three in a row in 2019." Hey lad in 2018 Limerick were by far the better side….Canning kept us close only because he was a pure stud….we were worn out due to the CLARE MATCHES….we had no legs…fair play to Limerick.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2485 - 26/07/2023 00:52:22
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Replying To Stool Pigeon: "In what world is having too much success a problem?
There is a huge difference between U17 and even U20 never mind senior.
If there is a problem, it's one of raised expectations when a bunch of schoolboys win a hurling competition and we somehow equate this with 'inevitable' senior success, down the road, then when it doesn't happen, we blame the players because 'they raised our expectations'. It's utterly bizarre.
All those young men did was have the temerity to win a national competition. Or compete heavily for it.
The players are going to come from the same place they have always come from, but now that the minors are playing (up to) 7 matches a year and the U20's are playing at least 4, we ought to see the benefit from this going forward.
This year's Clare U18's are likely to have maybe 3 players at most who make it to established senior level. That would be about the average. It will likely be the same for us. If either team got more than that they would be bucking the trend because the S&C requirements are so high now and no amount of talent is going to bridge that gap and U17's are looking at a minimum 4-5 year wait unless they are exceptional. There aren't many 20 year olds playing McCarthy hurling now." No one is blaming the players here, the fact that Galway have not won an U 20 ever is alarming, 100% agree that U17 is not a good barometer for senior but we are losing these players or they are not continuing to develop up to U20 level at least. if you look who's won U20 since 2014 its Clare, Limerick, Tipp and Cork, most have won two U 20s and they are the back bone of their senior teams today. What I see on the current Galway team has been outside managers without the stomach for an overhaul and a lot of players who flown the flag since 2015, thankfully most were rewarded in 2017 and they could have had a couple more with some luck, but where is the rebuild? the fact that no one has pressed Conor Cooney, GMac or the fact that David Burke hasnt been replaced in midfield (successfully) in the last 3 years says more about our lack of upcoming talent that the enduring performance of those players in recent years.
There is a rebuild along the lines of what Anthony Cunningham faced a decade or so ago that needs to be done, and as you said "no raised expectations" for 3-4 years until we can get back to being competitive again. Some will say we are close to twice beaten finalists KK in competitiveness, maybe but we are all a long ways of a Limerick team with an avg age of 27. Father time will catch up with every team including Limerick, where Galway want to be is the expectation of being in a final by 2027/28 with an up and coming team.
BostonGuy (Galway) - Posts: 160 - 26/07/2023 04:38:04
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Replying To foreveryoung: "I see what you're saying, but didn't Galway in '87 beat KK in the final and Tipp in '88? Admittedly, their overall record in finals is quite poor. And fortunate in 2017? Yeah, they probably were. But most winning teams are often fortunate: Limk in the semi-final of 2018 versus Cork. And that Waterford beat Tipp this year to help Limerick into the Munster final.
Pre-2017, most of that Galway team had lots of good hurling done and went very close in 2012 and 2015, so on the law of averages it was just that they got over the line that day vs. Waterford in 2017." There's always sliding doors moments and the longer a team goes without winning an all Ireland the harder it gets. If Limerick hadn't won in 2018 so young who knows how they would've gone. If Galway had won in 2012 when they were very young or even 2015 who knows how they would've ended up, could pushed on and been a more dominant force and harvested more all Ireland's, instead they were probably closer to the finish than the start when they finally won in 2017. Or it could happen Clare were they win very young and never get close or to a final again. Galway winning in 17 was similar enough to Wexford in 96, close for years and when finally won weren't that young or had lots of miles down, very very competitive the year after (both won Leinsters again year after) but team started to break away pretty soon after. I do think that Galway team of the mid to late 10s was a super team and should've won more. Probably unlucky that it's sandwiched between the tail end of the great Kilkenny team and the start of the current Limerick run, loosing in 12,15 finals to Kilkenny and 18 final to Limerick and the 20 semi final. There's 4 all Ireland's that could've been won but for super super teams, but I suppose that's what separates those super teams from the others. Not forgetting a great Tipp team that picked up a few. Feel like Tipp and Galways good teams of that decade might be forgotten about or not given as much credit due to killkenny and Limerick super generations being so relatively close to each other. Was a pity they didn't win more, the talent was there. Even thegreat late 80s team should've won way more, they're were all so young in 87,88, so many won u21 in 86, but just feel apart after 90 even though lads should've only being come into their prime in their late 20s. It's funny what generational teams and moments can swing on. Limerick winning in 18, Kilkenny winning in 06, Dublin footballers in 11. If Kerry win back to back this year and go on to win a bucket load more all Ireland's, it'll always be referenced back to Seanie O'Sheas free v Dublin as sliding doors moment. Thems the breaks that can push on already outrageously talented teams to break into greatness. Winning one early and having huge moments go your way can put in huge foundations for something special. (I don't want to call an all Ireland soft cus it doesn't exist but maybe Clare winning one so young without too many battles or the big teams having an off year came against them when they actually played top opposition or teams putting it up to them, they weren't used to winning tough. Probably will offend some Clre people)
Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin (Wexford) - Posts: 306 - 26/07/2023 09:50:22
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Tasty enough game to open up the championship on Friday night 4 August in Ballinasloe with Portumna playing Turloughmore. Will be great to get another chance to see Joe hurling in a forward line with Deccie McLoughlin. Turlough are in decent shape at the moment.
galway19 (Galway) - Posts: 878 - 26/07/2023 11:20:40
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Replying To Trump2020: "Hey lad in 2018 Limerick were by far the better side….Canning kept us close only because he was a pure stud….we were worn out due to the CLARE MATCHES….we had no legs…fair play to Limerick." What match were you watching? I don't think JC got a puck of it in open play in the 1st half, and probably didn't get many frees to hit either until we were 'bet', with Owens on the blower. Meanwhile, his direct opponent Hannon was heading for the motm gong.
JC did come into it in a big way in the last 25mins. The impetus for this imo, seemed to be Glynn's impact on arrival to the no11 spot, where he started to break eggs so to speak, and Joe became more relevant to the game in a right half forward role. This wasn't far off a repeat of the 'move' that beat Tipp down the stretch at the '17 semi. Mercifully, Owens was watching that one on TV.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4085 - 26/07/2023 11:46:31
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Replying To BostonGuy: "No one is blaming the players here, the fact that Galway have not won an U 20 ever is alarming, 100% agree that U17 is not a good barometer for senior but we are losing these players or they are not continuing to develop up to U20 level at least. if you look who's won U20 since 2014 its Clare, Limerick, Tipp and Cork, most have won two U 20s and they are the back bone of their senior teams today. What I see on the current Galway team has been outside managers without the stomach for an overhaul and a lot of players who flown the flag since 2015, thankfully most were rewarded in 2017 and they could have had a couple more with some luck, but where is the rebuild? the fact that no one has pressed Conor Cooney, GMac or the fact that David Burke hasnt been replaced in midfield (successfully) in the last 3 years says more about our lack of upcoming talent that the enduring performance of those players in recent years.
There is a rebuild along the lines of what Anthony Cunningham faced a decade or so ago that needs to be done, and as you said "no raised expectations" for 3-4 years until we can get back to being competitive again. Some will say we are close to twice beaten finalists KK in competitiveness, maybe but we are all a long ways of a Limerick team with an avg age of 27. Father time will catch up with every team including Limerick, where Galway want to be is the expectation of being in a final by 2027/28 with an up and coming team." You might be 25 years waiting for a player remotely as good as David Burke imo.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4085 - 26/07/2023 11:52:09
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Replying To Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin: "There's always sliding doors moments and the longer a team goes without winning an all Ireland the harder it gets. If Limerick hadn't won in 2018 so young who knows how they would've gone. If Galway had won in 2012 when they were very young or even 2015 who knows how they would've ended up, could pushed on and been a more dominant force and harvested more all Ireland's, instead they were probably closer to the finish than the start when they finally won in 2017. Or it could happen Clare were they win very young and never get close or to a final again. Galway winning in 17 was similar enough to Wexford in 96, close for years and when finally won weren't that young or had lots of miles down, very very competitive the year after (both won Leinsters again year after) but team started to break away pretty soon after. I do think that Galway team of the mid to late 10s was a super team and should've won more. Probably unlucky that it's sandwiched between the tail end of the great Kilkenny team and the start of the current Limerick run, loosing in 12,15 finals to Kilkenny and 18 final to Limerick and the 20 semi final. There's 4 all Ireland's that could've been won but for super super teams, but I suppose that's what separates those super teams from the others. Not forgetting a great Tipp team that picked up a few. Feel like Tipp and Galways good teams of that decade might be forgotten about or not given as much credit due to killkenny and Limerick super generations being so relatively close to each other. Was a pity they didn't win more, the talent was there. Even thegreat late 80s team should've won way more, they're were all so young in 87,88, so many won u21 in 86, but just feel apart after 90 even though lads should've only being come into their prime in their late 20s. It's funny what generational teams and moments can swing on. Limerick winning in 18, Kilkenny winning in 06, Dublin footballers in 11. If Kerry win back to back this year and go on to win a bucket load more all Ireland's, it'll always be referenced back to Seanie O'Sheas free v Dublin as sliding doors moment. Thems the breaks that can push on already outrageously talented teams to break into greatness. Winning one early and having huge moments go your way can put in huge foundations for something special. (I don't want to call an all Ireland soft cus it doesn't exist but maybe Clare winning one so young without too many battles or the big teams having an off year came against them when they actually played top opposition or teams putting it up to them, they weren't used to winning tough. Probably will offend some Clre people)" The Galway teams of 2012 and 2015 were distinctly different teams, from a personnel standpoint. You don't seem to be aware of that?
To be equating what Limerick have built 2014-20?? to the chance of some 'sliding doors' moment is way off the mark. They're much better than that. KK Tipp Galway Clare had great/good teams in the 00s, but not even KK, who won the most from that lot, had such an indestructible air as this Limerick regime. The 5 in a row will rubber stamp that next year, I suppose.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4085 - 26/07/2023 12:16:14
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Replying To Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin: "There's always sliding doors moments and the longer a team goes without winning an all Ireland the harder it gets. If Limerick hadn't won in 2018 so young who knows how they would've gone. If Galway had won in 2012 when they were very young or even 2015 who knows how they would've ended up, could pushed on and been a more dominant force and harvested more all Ireland's, instead they were probably closer to the finish than the start when they finally won in 2017. Or it could happen Clare were they win very young and never get close or to a final again. Galway winning in 17 was similar enough to Wexford in 96, close for years and when finally won weren't that young or had lots of miles down, very very competitive the year after (both won Leinsters again year after) but team started to break away pretty soon after. I do think that Galway team of the mid to late 10s was a super team and should've won more. Probably unlucky that it's sandwiched between the tail end of the great Kilkenny team and the start of the current Limerick run, loosing in 12,15 finals to Kilkenny and 18 final to Limerick and the 20 semi final. There's 4 all Ireland's that could've been won but for super super teams, but I suppose that's what separates those super teams from the others. Not forgetting a great Tipp team that picked up a few. Feel like Tipp and Galways good teams of that decade might be forgotten about or not given as much credit due to killkenny and Limerick super generations being so relatively close to each other. Was a pity they didn't win more, the talent was there. Even thegreat late 80s team should've won way more, they're were all so young in 87,88, so many won u21 in 86, but just feel apart after 90 even though lads should've only being come into their prime in their late 20s. It's funny what generational teams and moments can swing on. Limerick winning in 18, Kilkenny winning in 06, Dublin footballers in 11. If Kerry win back to back this year and go on to win a bucket load more all Ireland's, it'll always be referenced back to Seanie O'Sheas free v Dublin as sliding doors moment. Thems the breaks that can push on already outrageously talented teams to break into greatness. Winning one early and having huge moments go your way can put in huge foundations for something special. (I don't want to call an all Ireland soft cus it doesn't exist but maybe Clare winning one so young without too many battles or the big teams having an off year came against them when they actually played top opposition or teams putting it up to them, they weren't used to winning tough. Probably will offend some Clre people)" You're talking some nonsense there about the Galway team of 2012 being old by 2017. Uninformed rubbish.
The number of Galway players that started the 2017 and 2012 hurling finals was a mere THREE. Canning, David Burke and Coen. Galway weren't an old team at all in 2017, which is possibly why half of that team is still being fielded for Galway in 2023.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4085 - 26/07/2023 12:38:39
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Replying To Pope_Benedict: "You're talking some nonsense there about the Galway team of 2012 being old by 2017. Uninformed rubbish.
The number of Galway players that started the 2017 and 2012 hurling finals was a mere THREE. Canning, David Burke and Coen. Galway weren't an old team at all in 2017, which is possibly why half of that team is still being fielded for Galway in 2023." David Burke, Niall Burke, Johnny Coen, Joe Canning, Conor Cooney, Johnny Glynn, James Skehill, Joseph Cooney, Davy Glennon all there in 12. Aidan Harte started in 10, Colm Callanan in 07....but neithr were really a part of it in 12
Didn't say they were old, just weren't young, lots had put a bit of miles and if they'd won early on mightve kicked on. I do know vital cogs were added on in 15 especially, Mannions, Daithi Burke. But Galway when they won in 17 probably had the same age bracket that Limerick have now but after 4 less all Ireland's in a similar time frame. Lots of lads in mid to late 20s. 2019 or 2020 was probably the last year of the 2017 team properly together and it's been a big change up since then especially. Just saying if they'd got over the line in 12 or even 15 they mightve had a few more years with the belief and confidence that winning one brings.....you'll do well to say I'm uniformed, I admit to mistakes or misquotes. Isn't nearly half of Kilkennys 2015 team still playing in some role atm..didn't mean they were a young team playing then either.
Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin (Wexford) - Posts: 306 - 26/07/2023 14:08:59
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