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Galway Hurling thread

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Replying To Trump2020:  "I've no complaints about the 2018 Final. Ye beat us to every ball and were more physical and fully deserved to win. The only thing that made it close was Canning. After Canning retired from the game he left a huge void on the team and yes they were very up and down. Then when Shefflin took over there was a "feeling in" period that I think is near its end. Shefflin isn't afraid to bring in "NO NAME" players that make a big impact and a nice blend with the older players. I think the future looks bright for Galway Hurling."
Thanks Trump and ye beat us fair and square in 80. I agree the future looks very bright. We will be gone in a few years and I would lpve to see some of the other 'second tier' teams',prolong the Big Threes stay away from the Top Table, If Galway dethrone us fair play to them,

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4471 - 23/05/2023 21:35:42    2481088

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "Refs are an enormous factor in all this. If Owens refs Galway Tipp 15-17, Tipp would have won all 3 games imo. If Barry Kelly refs the '18 semi and final, there wouldn't have been any replay, and Galway would very likely have won the '18 final. Galway's problem is that for every Owens, McAllister, Kirwan, Walsh, Devine, O'Brien, McSuibhne....this list goes on and on...(believe me..as Trump would say), there's been only one Barry Kelly. That's a ratio that has made ribbons of Galway's ' consistency for 50 years and more, but its an argument that falls on deaf obstinate ears down south."
Too true and you can add Denton and Wadding and especially Moore to that list . Nearly 33 years later and I still can't let it go

UtahBlaine (Galway) - Posts: 151 - 23/05/2023 21:58:15    2481091

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Replying To tommy k:  "Yes thanks OTM - the infamous "there is always one huge day in Galway..." cliché that you've heard the Munster pundits I mentioned roll out every year apart from 2017 and a few years after poor "craythurs". Of course nothing like that was said when Limerick won no AI for 45 years and probably had the most infamous "choke" in GAA history in 1994 v Offaly in the "5 minute final" going from 5 points up towards the end of the game to losing by 6 within 5 minutes. Where were all the Munster pundits then with their bad-minded clichés? You mention Waterford - aren't Waterford the "poster boys" these days for "inconsistency"? Munster people are full of bad-mind I have found for anyone outside of their own little county but they save most of their bad-mind for Galway in particular - you can see it on the faces of the likes of Daly, Cusack and Sheedy especially if Galway win anything. As my father used to say "they are ate with bad-mind" and "bad-mind will give you wrinkles". Long may it continue! lol"
You obviously were not around in 94. I was and in Croke Park for every game Offaly played there in that Championship. Kilkenny were Champions in '92 and '93. After 15 minutes they were 8 points up against Offaly. I remember big Daithi Regan came on as a sub and in the twinkling of an eye the game changed. Regan whipped three or four balls in from midfield and in about five minutes the Kilkenny net shoot three times. Kilkenny had all day to recover from the bombshell but they never did. I suppose you will tell us now they were chokers as well. Wexford fell exactly the same way after a two goal Offaly burst, one an absolutely spectacular effort by John Troy. Wexford had three Quarters of an Hour to recover but they never did. Offaly also beat a very strong Galway team that year. So they reached that Final after after beating what was then a far tougher set of teams than Limerick did. Make no mistake about it Offaly were the best team in Ireland that year. I find it a bit rich that a supporter of a county that has the second biggest playing population in the country and has lost four out of every five Final they played in, would call any other team chokers. Especially a county that has the sixth playing playing population in Ireland and won 11 out of 20 Finals they have played in.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4471 - 24/05/2023 07:05:46    2481119

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "I think I did a small study once and since 79 Galway have lost to an inordinate number of eventual Champions. However thinking all Munster Refs are against Galway is a bit like Clare and Limerick people saying Jimmy Cooney and Alan Kelly were against our respective counties and favoured Offaly and KK. Of course that is total rubbish."
I didn't say all Munster Refs are against Galway. You made that up yourself, as a retort.

I made a specific list from my own recall......an open-ended list though I'm afraid.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3911 - 24/05/2023 08:32:35    2481130

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Very Good point but When you consider some of the fine teams Galway have beaten in Semi Finals going all the way back to '75- Yes I was there that day; Cork Fans were utterly stunned, it was often baffling how they then often went on to then go down to what appeared lesser teams than their Semi Final victims. However I genuinely widh Galway well as I would say most neutral fans do and wish well in the future."
Hardly that baffling really. No team should be playing in an all-ireland final off the back of winning one match, unless there are only 4 entrants in that particular competition of course.

Galway were never thoroughly 'road tested' going into all-ireland finals 1975-1996. How could they have been, with usually just one August championship game/win under their belts.

The other rather obvious consideration about Galway's 1975-1996 championship record is that they went into numerous semis 'under the radar', due to their nonschedule of championship games, and in complete contrast didn't go into any finals as a totally unknown quantity.

Perhaps the points above will help alleviate some of your 'bafflement' about Galway's championship record 1975-1996.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3911 - 24/05/2023 11:07:55    2481178

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "Refs are an enormous factor in all this. If Owens refs Galway Tipp 15-17, Tipp would have won all 3 games imo. If Barry Kelly refs the '18 semi and final, there wouldn't have been any replay, and Galway would very likely have won the '18 final. Galway's problem is that for every Owens, McAllister, Kirwan, Walsh, Devine, O'Brien, McSuibhne....this list goes on and on...(believe me..as Trump would say), there's been only one Barry Kelly. That's a ratio that has made ribbons of Galway's ' consistency for 50 years and more, but its an argument that falls on deaf obstinate ears down south."
I genuinely can't recall a game whereby a ref gave or cost Tipp a game or All Ireland. There was plenty of arguments about the Power penalty in 2009 but at the end of the day the key decision in that was the justified red card. In 2016 I think Paudie's hook on Cooney probably was the key moment in Tipp going on to win the All Ireland and in 2015 and 2017 I think Tipp can only blame themselves but Galway deserved both victories and ref cant be blamed. If you went through every game you'd have tonnes of frees not given and ones that maybe were incorrect but you'll also have about 1000 opinions on each one. KK felt aggrieved by Hogans red card but at the end of the day by the rules it was a red yet many dont think it was a red.
You're fully entitled to your opinion but I disagree that refs are going out to ensure certain teams lose. I've always shook a refs hand at the end of games no matter how much I felt he got a decision wrong as I prob made bigger mistakes myself in the game that could have made a difference.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 24/05/2023 11:16:21    2481182

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Replying To tiobraid:  "For once I agree with you!"
The thing about Farrell is that he is not bad-minded or derogatory about other counties outside their own county like Sheedy, Daly, Dowling, Cummins, Cusack etc. and most of the Munster pundits although to be fair Donal O'Grady is a proud Cork man but he has been more than fair-minded to Galway in his assessments / advice down through the years. Farrell is a proud Galway man but is always objective and complimentary to other counties where its deserved. Some of the others I mentioned could follow his example.

tommy k (Galway) - Posts: 3470 - 24/05/2023 12:01:30    2481196

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "You obviously were not around in 94. I was and in Croke Park for every game Offaly played there in that Championship. Kilkenny were Champions in '92 and '93. After 15 minutes they were 8 points up against Offaly. I remember big Daithi Regan came on as a sub and in the twinkling of an eye the game changed. Regan whipped three or four balls in from midfield and in about five minutes the Kilkenny net shoot three times. Kilkenny had all day to recover from the bombshell but they never did. I suppose you will tell us now they were chokers as well. Wexford fell exactly the same way after a two goal Offaly burst, one an absolutely spectacular effort by John Troy. Wexford had three Quarters of an Hour to recover but they never did. Offaly also beat a very strong Galway team that year. So they reached that Final after after beating what was then a far tougher set of teams than Limerick did. Make no mistake about it Offaly were the best team in Ireland that year. I find it a bit rich that a supporter of a county that has the second biggest playing population in the country and has lost four out of every five Final they played in, would call any other team chokers. Especially a county that has the sixth playing playing population in Ireland and won 11 out of 20 Finals they have played in."
I certainly was around in 1994 - I am not that young anymore! I mentioned "chokers" as that term has been used about Galway down through the years but as far as I can recall Galway never lost a 5 point lead to then lose by 6 in 5 minutes like Limerick did in 1994. The closest you could say was the 1990 final v Cork which is a final Galway could / should have won but if 4 goals are conceded in the second half perhaps it was a deserved loss at the end of the day. "Choking" means having the talent to win but still losing so I think most of the Galway losses down through the years were deserved losses and not "chokes" as some pundits would have you believe.

tommy k (Galway) - Posts: 3470 - 24/05/2023 12:20:56    2481205

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Replying To tommy k:  "I certainly was around in 1994 - I am not that young anymore! I mentioned "chokers" as that term has been used about Galway down through the years but as far as I can recall Galway never lost a 5 point lead to then lose by 6 in 5 minutes like Limerick did in 1994. The closest you could say was the 1990 final v Cork which is a final Galway could / should have won but if 4 goals are conceded in the second half perhaps it was a deserved loss at the end of the day. "Choking" means having the talent to win but still losing so I think most of the Galway losses down through the years were deserved losses and not "chokes" as some pundits would have you believe."
You should've been in Wexford Park last Sunday Tommy

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14250 - 24/05/2023 13:16:11    2481224

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No offence folks, but can we move on from the ancient history please?

Every team has lost a big lead in a game and failed to win it. Kilkenny in 2014 were 10 clear of Galway with 8 minutes left, they ended up shipping 3 goals and drawing. They went on to win the All Ireland.

Pundits are going to say whatever they think makes them look intelligent in the moment.

The bigger issue is people taking notice of it. Pundits will confidently state two contradictory viewpoints in consecutive weeks without blinking, why would anyone take them seriously?

It's part of the job. It's an entertainment industry, after all.

Stool Pigeon (Galway) - Posts: 906 - 24/05/2023 13:46:44    2481241

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Replying To tiobraid:  "I genuinely can't recall a game whereby a ref gave or cost Tipp a game or All Ireland. There was plenty of arguments about the Power penalty in 2009 but at the end of the day the key decision in that was the justified red card. In 2016 I think Paudie's hook on Cooney probably was the key moment in Tipp going on to win the All Ireland and in 2015 and 2017 I think Tipp can only blame themselves but Galway deserved both victories and ref cant be blamed. If you went through every game you'd have tonnes of frees not given and ones that maybe were incorrect but you'll also have about 1000 opinions on each one. KK felt aggrieved by Hogans red card but at the end of the day by the rules it was a red yet many dont think it was a red.
You're fully entitled to your opinion but I disagree that refs are going out to ensure certain teams lose. I've always shook a refs hand at the end of games no matter how much I felt he got a decision wrong as I prob made bigger mistakes myself in the game that could have made a difference."
Dead on Tiobraid, it is no use blaming refs.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4471 - 24/05/2023 15:12:15    2481292

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Replying To tiobraid:  "I genuinely can't recall a game whereby a ref gave or cost Tipp a game or All Ireland. There was plenty of arguments about the Power penalty in 2009 but at the end of the day the key decision in that was the justified red card. In 2016 I think Paudie's hook on Cooney probably was the key moment in Tipp going on to win the All Ireland and in 2015 and 2017 I think Tipp can only blame themselves but Galway deserved both victories and ref cant be blamed. If you went through every game you'd have tonnes of frees not given and ones that maybe were incorrect but you'll also have about 1000 opinions on each one. KK felt aggrieved by Hogans red card but at the end of the day by the rules it was a red yet many dont think it was a red.
You're fully entitled to your opinion but I disagree that refs are going out to ensure certain teams lose. I've always shook a refs hand at the end of games no matter how much I felt he got a decision wrong as I prob made bigger mistakes myself in the game that could have made a difference."
You might be disagreeing with a point that wasn't made there. Nobody said that referees could 'ensure' that certain teams would lose. That mightn't be possible. Many games have margins between teams that even the most biased referee wouldn't be capable of bridging.

I'm talking largely about marginal calls in marginal matches, but you get the occasion too where refereeing bias is actually embarrassingly obvious. I'm talking about patterns of refereeing, from certain referees, over multiple games, that indicate that those referees don't give particular teams a fair shake, when they're pitted against other particular teams. It's naive imo for yourself, and the old tourman, to believe that the better team ALWAYS wins EVERY match. That's just not how it works imo. Referees, and particularly any referees with inherent biases, have ample scope to 'swing' any marginal match in the direction that their inherent bias sees fit. It's daft to contend that every referee is biased, but it's surely equally daft to contend that every referee is not biased.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3911 - 24/05/2023 15:54:35    2481311

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Replying To Viking66:  "You should've been in Wexford Park last Sunday Tommy"
I know Viking but as Liam Sheedy said on TSG "Wexford don't normally concede those type of goals" and that was all he had to say on the subject more or less. He was just sorry it wasn't Galway he was talking about as he could have really taken his bad-mind out in comfort then with the usual "underachievers", "chokers" etc. etc. comments! I really felt sorry for him struggling to talk about it! lol

tommy k (Galway) - Posts: 3470 - 24/05/2023 16:04:37    2481321

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "Hardly that baffling really. No team should be playing in an all-ireland final off the back of winning one match, unless there are only 4 entrants in that particular competition of course.

Galway were never thoroughly 'road tested' going into all-ireland finals 1975-1996. How could they have been, with usually just one August championship game/win under their belts.

The other rather obvious consideration about Galway's 1975-1996 championship record is that they went into numerous semis 'under the radar', due to their nonschedule of championship games, and in complete contrast didn't go into any finals as a totally unknown quantity.

Perhaps the points above will help alleviate some of your 'bafflement' about Galway's championship record 1975-1996."
Ben, How come directly entering at Semi or Quarter Final level has never seriously affected the level of achievement of your Minor and Under 21 Teams- at least since the early 80s. Where is your much vaunted 'road testing' theory working out there. You have had access either by the Back Door system or Leinster now for past twenty five years and Galways success rate in finals is still at 20% in that period. It should be also remembered that Galway was in Munster for 11 years,AND AT LEVELS FROM DAY ONE- and yet had very little success.
It should be also taken into account that Kerry Footballers have very little opposition in Munster- often just one serious game- and yet they have won 36 All Irelands.
I don't buy your 'under the radar' contention. Ever since '75, when they swept aside Cork and beat Cork, Tipp and KK in the League, Galway have seldom been underestimated. In addition to this, they were involved in numerous National League and Railway Finals and were thus were in fact a pretty open book.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4471 - 24/05/2023 22:56:07    2481387

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Replying To tommy k:  "I know Viking but as Liam Sheedy said on TSG "Wexford don't normally concede those type of goals" and that was all he had to say on the subject more or less. He was just sorry it wasn't Galway he was talking about as he could have really taken his bad-mind out in comfort then with the usual "underachievers", "chokers" etc. etc. comments! I really felt sorry for him struggling to talk about it! lol"
No we didn't until his buddy took over.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14250 - 25/05/2023 07:15:35    2481399

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Expecting a routine 5+ point win on Sunday, similar to our last championship game against them. Wouldn't be risking Cathal or Brian Concannon with them both carrying hamstring injuries. Would be good to expose McLoughlin and Collins to the space in Croke Park once the game opens up in the second half.

galway19 (Galway) - Posts: 806 - 25/05/2023 08:47:50    2481415

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An word on Cathals injury? How is f burke and j cooney as they seemed to go of injured at the weekend too. Can't see mannion playing for a few weeks if he tweaked the hamstring and he is vital to us!

ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 272 - 25/05/2023 09:32:19    2481425

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Replying To Viking66:  "No we didn't until his buddy took over."
Thats just it. Hes not going to criticise his buddy particularly when he got him the job in the first place.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 25/05/2023 09:52:24    2481429

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "You might be disagreeing with a point that wasn't made there. Nobody said that referees could 'ensure' that certain teams would lose. That mightn't be possible. Many games have margins between teams that even the most biased referee wouldn't be capable of bridging.

I'm talking largely about marginal calls in marginal matches, but you get the occasion too where refereeing bias is actually embarrassingly obvious. I'm talking about patterns of refereeing, from certain referees, over multiple games, that indicate that those referees don't give particular teams a fair shake, when they're pitted against other particular teams. It's naive imo for yourself, and the old tourman, to believe that the better team ALWAYS wins EVERY match. That's just not how it works imo. Referees, and particularly any referees with inherent biases, have ample scope to 'swing' any marginal match in the direction that their inherent bias sees fit. It's daft to contend that every referee is biased, but it's surely equally daft to contend that every referee is not biased."
We will agree to differ but I think its a poor excuse that you have basically said you would have more all irelands with a different referee when it was very clear that Galway didnt really fire in 2018 - despite getting to the final. They werent the best team in 2018

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 25/05/2023 09:54:36    2481432

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Replying To galway19:  "Expecting a routine 5+ point win on Sunday, similar to our last championship game against them. Wouldn't be risking Cathal or Brian Concannon with them both carrying hamstring injuries. Would be good to expose McLoughlin and Collins to the space in Croke Park once the game opens up in the second half."
You can double that at least. Dublin in my opinion have been really poor in this championship and their basic touch is shocking in lots of cases. Theyve a few that would walk into any team but overall I've been very disappointed with them. Galway can win this game pulling up. Theyre miles ahead

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 25/05/2023 09:56:49    2481435

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