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Wexford Football Championship

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Replying To Viking66:  "Like who? Name out a list of clubs. Most of Kilmores players apparently play both. Most Intermediate teams we have played have more than half their players playing 1st team for both. Fethard, Horeswood, Gusserane, Clongeen, Adamstown, Cushinstown also from talking to members of these clubs."
Are you even reading what I am saying?


You were arguing that bigger clubs have an advantage because they have more players playing first team in only one code.

I pointed out that these successful bigger clubs generally have 12/13 players on first team in both, and that this is similar to smaller clubs.

And now you come back imply that some smaller clubs actually have MORE single code only players (close to half), totally contradicting your original position.

All those clubs you named out have roughly the same numbers of players who play first team only in one code as the Shels, Rapps, Martins etc.

Which rubbishes your point that the alternate weeks format favours bigger clubs for this reason.

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 463 - 07/10/2022 11:15:55    2443086

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Replying To Onfor15:  "Are you even reading what I am saying?


You were arguing that bigger clubs have an advantage because they have more players playing first team in only one code.

I pointed out that these successful bigger clubs generally have 12/13 players on first team in both, and that this is similar to smaller clubs.

And now you come back imply that some smaller clubs actually have MORE single code only players (close to half), totally contradicting your original position.

All those clubs you named out have roughly the same numbers of players who play first team only in one code as the Shels, Rapps, Martins etc.

Which rubbishes your point that the alternate weeks format favours bigger clubs for this reason."
I said over half. We have 14 . All those clubs I mentioned have similar numbers to us. Martins, Shels, Gorey etc have under half. So if you go to alternate weeks their teams in general will be fresher than their opponents. That has to be an advantage whatever you say. And that's not even mentioning clubs like Oulart who would have a massive advantage as all their hurling team won't be playing anything more trying than junior B if they even bother doing that.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6607 - 07/10/2022 12:25:53    2443092

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Replying To Onfor15:  "Are you even reading what I am saying?


You were arguing that bigger clubs have an advantage because they have more players playing first team in only one code.

I pointed out that these successful bigger clubs generally have 12/13 players on first team in both, and that this is similar to smaller clubs.

And now you come back imply that some smaller clubs actually have MORE single code only players (close to half), totally contradicting your original position.

All those clubs you named out have roughly the same numbers of players who play first team only in one code as the Shels, Rapps, Martins etc.

Which rubbishes your point that the alternate weeks format favours bigger clubs for this reason."
And again few of those big clubs, if any, had 12 or 13 players starting for them in both hurling and football this year. Haven't a clue where you are getting that figure from.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6607 - 07/10/2022 12:28:45    2443093

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Don't know if this will help in relation to the current ding-dong here, but have had a look back at the senior hurling final programme and the football line-ups for either this weekend or last weekend:

Of the St. Martin's 15 that started the hurling final, just six are named in today's programme to start their senior football match tonight.

Of the Ferns 15 that started the hurling final, eleven started their intermediate football quarter-final last Sunday.

Didn't look back on earlier rounds of football to see how many other of the St. Martin's hurlers might have lined out for their second football team, but the stat above suggests that in this case at least, the "bigger" club is less dependent on dual players than the other.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1277 - 07/10/2022 13:32:10    2443105

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Don't know if this will help in relation to the current ding-dong here, but have had a look back at the senior hurling final programme and the football line-ups for either this weekend or last weekend:

Of the St. Martin's 15 that started the hurling final, just six are named in today's programme to start their senior football match tonight.

Of the Ferns 15 that started the hurling final, eleven started their intermediate football quarter-final last Sunday.

Didn't look back on earlier rounds of football to see how many other of the St. Martin's hurlers might have lined out for their second football team, but the stat above suggests that in this case at least, the "bigger" club is less dependent on dual players than the other."
I don't mean this in any demeaning way to Ferns, but I wouldn't consider them to be one of the so called big clubs. It was on account of this I was so happy to see them win the Senior Hurling this year. And I'd be very happy to see them win it again next year too. Or Oylegate either.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6607 - 07/10/2022 13:45:04    2443108

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Don't know if this will help in relation to the current ding-dong here, but have had a look back at the senior hurling final programme and the football line-ups for either this weekend or last weekend:

Of the St. Martin's 15 that started the hurling final, just six are named in today's programme to start their senior football match tonight.

Of the Ferns 15 that started the hurling final, eleven started their intermediate football quarter-final last Sunday.

Didn't look back on earlier rounds of football to see how many other of the St. Martin's hurlers might have lined out for their second football team, but the stat above suggests that in this case at least, the "bigger" club is less dependent on dual players than the other."
Plus Ryan Nolan who started numerous hurling games this year and plus Rory Scallan who was introduced in the football the other day.

The St Martins programme for tonight is not reflective of the situation across the season or indeed over the last few years. For example Patrick O'Connor and Kyle Firman have both played most if not all football games. Daithi Waters a dual stalwart who played most if not all senior hurling games this year, Eoin O'Leary was either injured or away for the hurling, Ciaran Lyng and Paudie Kelly didnt play first team hurling this year but have been another two dual stalwarts for most of the last 15 years.

The 2020 yearbook actually has lists of players from clubs who played with first teams in championship so rather than speculating about the issue for any longer, I'm going to actually study those lists tonight or over the weekend and come back with a list of how many dual first team players each club had in 2020. If those lists show that the big clubs have significantly fewer dual first team players than the small clubs then I'll happily apologise.

My definition of a big club is a club that is either senior in both or senior and intermediate. And who have 3 teams in both codes. That includes Shels, Glynn, Rapps/Stars, St Annes, St Martins, Gorey, Ferns.

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 463 - 07/10/2022 13:51:48    2443109

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Don't know if this will help in relation to the current ding-dong here, but have had a look back at the senior hurling final programme and the football line-ups for either this weekend or last weekend:

Of the St. Martin's 15 that started the hurling final, just six are named in today's programme to start their senior football match tonight.

Of the Ferns 15 that started the hurling final, eleven started their intermediate football quarter-final last Sunday.

Didn't look back on earlier rounds of football to see how many other of the St. Martin's hurlers might have lined out for their second football team, but the stat above suggests that in this case at least, the "bigger" club is less dependent on dual players than the other."
I don't mean this in any demeaning way to Ferns, but I wouldn't consider them to be one of the so called big clubs. It was on account of this I was so happy to see them win the Senior Hurling this year. And I'd be very happy to see them win it again next year too. Or Oylegate either.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6607 - 07/10/2022 13:56:44    2443112

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Don't know if this will help in relation to the current ding-dong here, but have had a look back at the senior hurling final programme and the football line-ups for either this weekend or last weekend:

Of the St. Martin's 15 that started the hurling final, just six are named in today's programme to start their senior football match tonight.

Of the Ferns 15 that started the hurling final, eleven started their intermediate football quarter-final last Sunday.

Didn't look back on earlier rounds of football to see how many other of the St. Martin's hurlers might have lined out for their second football team, but the stat above suggests that in this case at least, the "bigger" club is less dependent on dual players than the other."
Martins would have had bigger numbers playing both in recent years. Noticeable Joe and Mickey Coleman were playing Junior football rather than senior this year, Jack O'Connor hasn't played any football don't know if that's due to injury or not while Rory O'Connor has or already had a knee operation, Aaron Maddock came into the fold during the hurling championship but hasn't figured in football, don't know his situation if he's still around or did he head back out to Dubai after the hurling concluded, Willie Devereux another who has only focused on hurling in the last year or 2 and even that is down the priority list given his involvement in a successful family business.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 416 - 07/10/2022 14:20:00    2443117

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Replying To Onfor15:  "It's hard to know where to start with the above.

"why should we change our championship structures just to suit players or clubs who only take one code seriously?"

You mean return our championship structures to what they were for decades prior to a temporary measure introduced for Covid?

"If these clubs and players get a week off every other week compared to other clubs that are being true to the original GAA ethos"

Ah yes, lets force people to play sports they don't want to play. Punish every club without handball or rounders too while we are at it.

"its handing them a massive advantage"

Since block seasons hurling winners 2022 Ferns, 2021 Rapps, 2020 Shels. Football winners 2022 ???, 2021 Shels, 2020 Starlights.
Prior to block seasons hurling winners 2019 St Martins, 2018 Gorey, 2017 St Martins. Football winners 2019 Castletown, 2018 Shelmaliers, 2017 Starlights.
All of those clubs are either senior in both or senior in one and top intermediate in the other.

Oulart are the only single code club to win a senior championship in the last 15 years.

"what you will get then is more and more players and clubs picking one or the other"

This was not the case in Wexford when alternate weeks was the format previously."
Oulart won Enniscorthy district Junior B football title last weekend .. no longer a single club .. just like Rathnure whom they beat in the final

MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 95 - 07/10/2022 14:22:01    2443118

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Replying To Viking66:  "I don't mean this in any demeaning way to Ferns, but I wouldn't consider them to be one of the so called big clubs. It was on account of this I was so happy to see them win the Senior Hurling this year. And I'd be very happy to see them win it again next year too. Or Oylegate either."
Your definition of a big club then?

They have 3 adult hurling teams and 3 adult football teams. The most of any club in the county.

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 463 - 07/10/2022 14:35:14    2443120

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Replying To MyOhMi:  "Oulart won Enniscorthy district Junior B football title last weekend .. no longer a single club .. just like Rathnure whom they beat in the final"
I am well aware of that. But they were still the last single code club to win a senior championship.

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 463 - 07/10/2022 14:35:58    2443121

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Replying To Onfor15:  "Your definition of a big club then?

They have 3 adult hurling teams and 3 adult football teams. The most of any club in the county."
Apologies Gorey have 4 hurling, 3 football, Glynn 3 in both, St Martins 3 in both, Rapps/Stars 3 in both, Ferns 3 in both, Shels 3 in both.

I think thats a very reliable judge of how big a club when we are discussing the topic of players.

There are a few others that have 3 in one code and 2 in the other - Blackwater, Castletown, Monageer while Oulart have 4 hurling and 1 football.

It will be interesting to compare when I get a chance to look at that yearbook.

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 463 - 07/10/2022 14:47:12    2443123

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Replying To MyOhMi:  "Oulart won Enniscorthy district Junior B football title last weekend .. no longer a single club .. just like Rathnure whom they beat in the final"
Was brilliant to see. Think back in the day they won football titles b4. Rathnure won a Senior football title I think too.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6607 - 07/10/2022 15:22:26    2443127

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Replying To Viking66:  "Was brilliant to see. Think back in the day they won football titles b4. Rathnure won a Senior football title I think too."
Yeah pretty sure Oulart won an Intermediate football around late 80s/ early 90s.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 416 - 07/10/2022 15:30:39    2443129

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Replying To Onfor15:  "Apologies Gorey have 4 hurling, 3 football, Glynn 3 in both, St Martins 3 in both, Rapps/Stars 3 in both, Ferns 3 in both, Shels 3 in both.

I think thats a very reliable judge of how big a club when we are discussing the topic of players.

There are a few others that have 3 in one code and 2 in the other - Blackwater, Castletown, Monageer while Oulart have 4 hurling and 1 football.

It will be interesting to compare when I get a chance to look at that yearbook."
Personally wouldn't think of Ferns as a big club, just think the likes of them and the Annes are great examples to ohers of maximising your resources. In my head I think of Glynn,Shels, Martins, Harriers, Rapps/ Stars and Gorey as the big clubs.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 416 - 07/10/2022 15:34:19    2443130

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Replying To Viking66:  "I don't mean this in any demeaning way to Ferns, but I wouldn't consider them to be one of the so called big clubs. It was on account of this I was so happy to see them win the Senior Hurling this year. And I'd be very happy to see them win it again next year too. Or Oylegate either."
I didn't mean for Ferns to be considered a "bigger" club either. That was actually the exact point I was making - that a "bigger" club like St. Martin's wasn't as dependent on dual players as Ferns, who wouldn't really be considered one of the bigger ones.

Apologies if that was unclear.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1277 - 07/10/2022 15:54:41    2443135

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Replying To Onfor15:  "Your definition of a big club then?

They have 3 adult hurling teams and 3 adult football teams. The most of any club in the county."
Fair point so. Didn't realise they had a Junior A and Junior B side. Other clubs have 3 also though, so Ferns don't have the most. I was thinking about the big town or outskirts of town clubs. Still great to see Ferns win a Senior title though that new info doesn't change the way I feel about that!!!!!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6607 - 07/10/2022 16:01:40    2443138

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Replying To Onfor15:  "Apologies Gorey have 4 hurling, 3 football, Glynn 3 in both, St Martins 3 in both, Rapps/Stars 3 in both, Ferns 3 in both, Shels 3 in both.

I think thats a very reliable judge of how big a club when we are discussing the topic of players.

There are a few others that have 3 in one code and 2 in the other - Blackwater, Castletown, Monageer while Oulart have 4 hurling and 1 football.

It will be interesting to compare when I get a chance to look at that yearbook."
Like alot of clubs we have 2 in each

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6607 - 07/10/2022 16:03:10    2443140

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Replying To MyOhMi:  "Oulart won Enniscorthy district Junior B football title last weekend .. no longer a single club .. just like Rathnure whom they beat in the final"
And neither would have been in the final or entered in the competition only for the hurling/football split. Could argue the same for Horeswood in Inter A and Clongeen in Jnr A. The split undoubtedly helped them towards winning their champ. A lot of Horeswood players have said they may not have won it at all without the split. Pity so much agro against the format.

countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 308 - 07/10/2022 16:06:45    2443142

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "Personally wouldn't think of Ferns as a big club, just think the likes of them and the Annes are great examples to ohers of maximising your resources. In my head I think of Glynn,Shels, Martins, Harriers, Rapps/ Stars and Gorey as the big clubs."
I'd agree. Maybe worth pointing out that this was I think the first time ever Ferns had three teams in adult football championship. Came off the back of them winning Junior 'B' football last year and that team moving up to Junior 'A'. Rather than forgetting about Junior 'B' altogether then, they entered another team this year as well, to give some other lads a chance to play games.

Think they struggled to actually field teams for some of them and a look at the results on the Wexford website shows they didn't win any matches, apart from a walkover received. But at least they were providing games to players anyway.

Would agree it's more a case of maximising resources and good player retention rather than a sign of being one of the "bigger" clubs.

Think there's a difference between having a relatively big number of players and being a "bigger" club in the way the term is usually meant.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1277 - 07/10/2022 16:13:28    2443143

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