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Wexford Football Championship

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Was puzzling over what you might mean by "intermediate football teams concentrating on hurling in the middle of a football championship", until I realised you might be talking about Ferns?

I don't know exactly what they're doing there, but if they were doing hurling training during their football championship, I don't think I'd blame them. This could be their one and only crack at the Leinster hurling championship, so stands to reason they might have at least one eye on it. In contrast, they'll have another go at the Wexford Intermediate Football Championship next year.

Think this is particularly relevant when you consider how it seems to be fairly generally known and accepted that a large part of the reason Rapps didn't do well in Leinster last year is because they probably didn't do enough hurling while the football championship was on. And yes, that's another issue with the structures as they stand. As everybody here seems to accept, there are no easy answers."
Dont get me wrong, i agree with you.

And ive no issue with Ferns taking the Leinster hurling championship seriously, my point is that people keep referencing with the codes being in intervals week in week off for example that teams might not do much football training and just do hurling training but thats happening anyway.

There are other clubs doing zero football training, turning up just to not give walkovers.

Yep no easy answers unfortnuately.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1435 - 06/10/2022 12:16:29    2442976

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Replying To Viking66:  "Agree system changes aren't going to improve the situation where players in some clubs don't want to play football or don't take it seriously. So why hand them an advantage in the hurling championship by spreading out the hurling championship with what will effectively be rest weeks for those players and clubs when lads like our players are taking both codes seriously? In our club all the first team players bar 1 are playing both football and hurling. And that one only plays football."
But why punish them players who only want to play one code?

A week where a team arent hurling training but playing football isnt going to cause a major drop off for the hurling side if it does then there are problems with that training, but it might give those players who just want to play one code a chance to recover and get ready for the next game.

The other alternative is to keep this system and put football first, how do ye think that would go down?

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1435 - 06/10/2022 12:23:05    2442978

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Replying To icehonesty:  "The current system is absolutely not the most beneficial for Wexford football. Don't know where you're coming up with that. It'll have to go to alternate weekends next year."
If it goes back to alternate weeks you will see more of the dual clubs and their players prioritising either football or hurling, as both are completely different games. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to guess which code that is likely to be. The only beneficiaries of the change will be the very big clubs who have very little crossover between their first teams in hurling and football, and the clubs who are completely or largely one code clubs anyway.
Clubs that have been making strides in hurling who were previously more football orientated might stay going with their hurling development projects as they have had some success moving up the grades in recent years. Especially New Ross District clubs. This might further weaken them at Football.
I can't see how any of this will benefit football in the county in general, or more specifically get more players and supporters to enjoy the game here.
Campionship format issues as regards the state of Football in our county are a complete red herring. The problem goes far deeper than that. As the schedule, both club and county, has got busier in both codes and the standard and intensity players are expected to reach has got higher, so more and more players are concentrating on one code over the other. The day of the true dual player at the top level is drawing to a close. It's already happened at intercounty. All good players want to win 1st and foremost, and at the top level at intercounty that is far more likely to happen in hurling in Wexford.
And the big problem for fans is that to win and be successful at football under the current rules of the game, you have to play a pretty boring brand of football. If you had of asked me which I preferred to watch even just 10 or 15 years ago I've had to think for quite a long time before answering. Now, I enjoyed our u11 hurling game against Crossabeg a few weeks ago far more than any of our Intermediate championship football games to date, although the dead rubber (for us) group game against Cushinstown was a good exciting game, even though we lost, much like they used to be a long time ago. The rules of the game need to be changed significantly.
These are the issues people need to be addressing to improve the fortune of the game of Football in our county. Not getting sidetracked by red herrings like format issues.
BTW my preference is to keep the status quo, but alternate the football and hurling championships each year as regards which goes first. Its not going to increase attendances at football games as some would hope, but at least it would be fair.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14127 - 06/10/2022 12:47:26    2442980

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Replying To icehonesty:  "Absolute horse manure. Ran over and kicked an opponent as hard as he could, looking to do as much damage as possible. No intent to go for the ball or make a proper tackle. Should get 6 months minimum."
He didn't kick him. He slid into him. Yes it was a professional foul. Yes he wasn't trying to make a proper tackle on the ball. But to jump from that to "he deliberately tried to break his leg" is a jump too far for me from the video clip I saw.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14127 - 06/10/2022 12:50:51    2442983

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Replying To tearintom:  "But why punish them players who only want to play one code?

A week where a team arent hurling training but playing football isnt going to cause a major drop off for the hurling side if it does then there are problems with that training, but it might give those players who just want to play one code a chance to recover and get ready for the next game.

The other alternative is to keep this system and put football first, how do ye think that would go down?"
I think football should go 1st alternate years. Its the fairest way. But if we are genuine in our belief that we should be a dual county, with dual clubs and dual players, then why should we change our championship structures just to suit players or clubs who only take one code seriously? If these clubs and players get a week off every other week compared to other clubs that are being true to the original GAA ethos, as Wexford GAA tries to be, its handing them a massive advantage. And what you will get then is more and more players and clubs picking one or the other. And if that happens that will be the final nail in the coffin for Wexford football. The big knitting needle will finally have done its job.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14127 - 06/10/2022 12:57:39    2442985

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Replying To icehonesty:  "The current system is absolutely not the most beneficial for Wexford football. Don't know where you're coming up with that. It'll have to go to alternate weekends next year."
I obviously can't speak for the other poster, but would say the thinking behind his statement is that under the current system, every single club in the county has been concentrating fully on football for the past eight weeks or more, apart from maybe Ferns (discussed above).

I don't think there's any other system where that would happen, as there are many clubs (my own included) who certainly wouldn't give it their full attention in even a "football week" if it goes back to alternate weekends.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2648 - 06/10/2022 13:21:26    2442989

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Replying To Viking66:  "I think football should go 1st alternate years. Its the fairest way. But if we are genuine in our belief that we should be a dual county, with dual clubs and dual players, then why should we change our championship structures just to suit players or clubs who only take one code seriously? If these clubs and players get a week off every other week compared to other clubs that are being true to the original GAA ethos, as Wexford GAA tries to be, its handing them a massive advantage. And what you will get then is more and more players and clubs picking one or the other. And if that happens that will be the final nail in the coffin for Wexford football. The big knitting needle will finally have done its job."
It's hard to know where to start with the above.

"why should we change our championship structures just to suit players or clubs who only take one code seriously?"

You mean return our championship structures to what they were for decades prior to a temporary measure introduced for Covid?

"If these clubs and players get a week off every other week compared to other clubs that are being true to the original GAA ethos"

Ah yes, lets force people to play sports they don't want to play. Punish every club without handball or rounders too while we are at it.

"its handing them a massive advantage"

Since block seasons hurling winners 2022 Ferns, 2021 Rapps, 2020 Shels. Football winners 2022 ???, 2021 Shels, 2020 Starlights.
Prior to block seasons hurling winners 2019 St Martins, 2018 Gorey, 2017 St Martins. Football winners 2019 Castletown, 2018 Shelmaliers, 2017 Starlights.
All of those clubs are either senior in both or senior in one and top intermediate in the other.

Oulart are the only single code club to win a senior championship in the last 15 years.

"what you will get then is more and more players and clubs picking one or the other"

This was not the case in Wexford when alternate weeks was the format previously.

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 533 - 06/10/2022 13:30:53    2442994

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Replying To Onfor15:  "It's hard to know where to start with the above.

"why should we change our championship structures just to suit players or clubs who only take one code seriously?"

You mean return our championship structures to what they were for decades prior to a temporary measure introduced for Covid?

"If these clubs and players get a week off every other week compared to other clubs that are being true to the original GAA ethos"

Ah yes, lets force people to play sports they don't want to play. Punish every club without handball or rounders too while we are at it.

"its handing them a massive advantage"

Since block seasons hurling winners 2022 Ferns, 2021 Rapps, 2020 Shels. Football winners 2022 ???, 2021 Shels, 2020 Starlights.
Prior to block seasons hurling winners 2019 St Martins, 2018 Gorey, 2017 St Martins. Football winners 2019 Castletown, 2018 Shelmaliers, 2017 Starlights.
All of those clubs are either senior in both or senior in one and top intermediate in the other.

Oulart are the only single code club to win a senior championship in the last 15 years.

"what you will get then is more and more players and clubs picking one or the other"

This was not the case in Wexford when alternate weeks was the format previously."
Apologies, Castletown not top intermediate in hurling but beaten in last 2 intermediate A finals and will be senior hurling within the next 15 years in my view.

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 533 - 06/10/2022 13:47:39    2442997

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Replying To Onfor15:  "It's hard to know where to start with the above.

"why should we change our championship structures just to suit players or clubs who only take one code seriously?"

You mean return our championship structures to what they were for decades prior to a temporary measure introduced for Covid?

"If these clubs and players get a week off every other week compared to other clubs that are being true to the original GAA ethos"

Ah yes, lets force people to play sports they don't want to play. Punish every club without handball or rounders too while we are at it.

"its handing them a massive advantage"

Since block seasons hurling winners 2022 Ferns, 2021 Rapps, 2020 Shels. Football winners 2022 ???, 2021 Shels, 2020 Starlights.
Prior to block seasons hurling winners 2019 St Martins, 2018 Gorey, 2017 St Martins. Football winners 2019 Castletown, 2018 Shelmaliers, 2017 Starlights.
All of those clubs are either senior in both or senior in one and top intermediate in the other.

Oulart are the only single code club to win a senior championship in the last 15 years.

"what you will get then is more and more players and clubs picking one or the other"

This was not the case in Wexford when alternate weeks was the format previously."
Firstly the system pre covid had more club championship weeks in it. These were spread out between the intercounty league and championship and then after the championship. This didn't suit anyone especially the club players. It even led to the formation of the CPA and the threat of an All out player strike. Decades ago the intercounty championships had less games and these were spread out all summer. And in between them clubs played their championship games as players were released back to the clubs.
Secondly noone is forcing any club or player to play both football and hurling. But why should any club or player who does choose to play only one code be given an unfair advantage over those who don't? Most of the winners you list have many players who are only first team players in 1 code. They can do this because they are big clubs with big playing populations. And players can then concentrate on the sport that they are better at or choose to.
Thirdly, read firstly again Onfor15!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14127 - 06/10/2022 13:54:31    2442998

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Replying To Onfor15:  "Apologies, Castletown not top intermediate in hurling but beaten in last 2 intermediate A finals and will be senior hurling within the next 15 years in my view."
Watched them in this years final. They probably had most of the play but Horeswood were just more clinical with their possession. Hard to know what players they will have in 15 years time. Are they going well at u13 and below? We haven't played them the last couple of years since my eldest started so I haven't a clue!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14127 - 06/10/2022 14:59:00    2443007

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Replying To Viking66:  "Firstly the system pre covid had more club championship weeks in it. These were spread out between the intercounty league and championship and then after the championship. This didn't suit anyone especially the club players. It even led to the formation of the CPA and the threat of an All out player strike. Decades ago the intercounty championships had less games and these were spread out all summer. And in between them clubs played their championship games as players were released back to the clubs.
Secondly noone is forcing any club or player to play both football and hurling. But why should any club or player who does choose to play only one code be given an unfair advantage over those who don't? Most of the winners you list have many players who are only first team players in 1 code. They can do this because they are big clubs with big playing populations. And players can then concentrate on the sport that they are better at or choose to.
Thirdly, read firstly again Onfor15!"
Firstly the system pre covid did not have more club championship weeks. It had the exact same number as now, the only difference being that 4 of the 16 weeks took place in April and then 12 weeks in a row from the resumption in August.

"Most of the winners you list have many players who are first team only players in 1 code"

Clubs at all levels always have a few lads who are first team players in only 1 code. This is no larger among the so called big clubs.

Look at Rapps/Starlights 2020 football compared with 2021 hurling. 13 of the 14 outfield players who started the football final in 2020 played senior hurling for them in 2021.

If you look at Ferns, 13 of those who played in the hurling final played in their football quarter final last week.

If we go back to 2017 St Martin's made the final in both. 12 of the outfielders that started the hurling final played the football final the following week.

The Shels 12 of the outfielders those who started the 2020 hurling final played the 2018 football final.

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 533 - 06/10/2022 15:22:59    2443008

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Replying To Onfor15:  "Apologies, Castletown not top intermediate in hurling but beaten in last 2 intermediate A finals and will be senior hurling within the next 15 years in my view."
More chance they will be gone back to junior rather than up to senior in my view.

countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 742 - 06/10/2022 15:55:01    2443013

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Replying To Onfor15:  "Firstly the system pre covid did not have more club championship weeks. It had the exact same number as now, the only difference being that 4 of the 16 weeks took place in April and then 12 weeks in a row from the resumption in August.

"Most of the winners you list have many players who are first team only players in 1 code"

Clubs at all levels always have a few lads who are first team players in only 1 code. This is no larger among the so called big clubs.

Look at Rapps/Starlights 2020 football compared with 2021 hurling. 13 of the 14 outfield players who started the football final in 2020 played senior hurling for them in 2021.

If you look at Ferns, 13 of those who played in the hurling final played in their football quarter final last week.

If we go back to 2017 St Martin's made the final in both. 12 of the outfielders that started the hurling final played the football final the following week.

The Shels 12 of the outfielders those who started the 2020 hurling final played the 2018 football final."
Pre covid there wasn't potentially 16 games in 17 weeks. And decades ago there certainly wasn't. Martins and Gorey and Ferns all seemed to have many players in their football 1st 15s this year who didn't play in their 1st 15s for hurling this year. Shels also. Not sure about Barntown or Rapps/Starlights. I wasn't talking about the panels but then I haven't been following them that closely to know. They all still have the playing numbers to ensure that their players aren't starting the 16 consecutive weeks, with only I think 1 week off, that most of of our lads have had to do. Well it might only be 15 if we lose on Saturday! Although a core of our lads didn't just start all those games but finished them also unless they got injured.
Just out of interest and not being smart but because you know your stuff, how many players from those clubs have started every game, or even nearly every game, from those big clubs this year in both the football and hurling championships? I suspect its not as many as your post suggests. Whatever about all those stats I still can't see why you can't see that it's an advantage to clubs who only play one code or players who only play one code to get a 2 week break between every game over players in clubs like ours who have to play every week. And that's the advantage playing alternate weeks will give those clubs.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14127 - 06/10/2022 16:01:20    2443015

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Replying To Viking66:  "Pre covid there wasn't potentially 16 games in 17 weeks. And decades ago there certainly wasn't. Martins and Gorey and Ferns all seemed to have many players in their football 1st 15s this year who didn't play in their 1st 15s for hurling this year. Shels also. Not sure about Barntown or Rapps/Starlights. I wasn't talking about the panels but then I haven't been following them that closely to know. They all still have the playing numbers to ensure that their players aren't starting the 16 consecutive weeks, with only I think 1 week off, that most of of our lads have had to do. Well it might only be 15 if we lose on Saturday! Although a core of our lads didn't just start all those games but finished them also unless they got injured.
Just out of interest and not being smart but because you know your stuff, how many players from those clubs have started every game, or even nearly every game, from those big clubs this year in both the football and hurling championships? I suspect its not as many as your post suggests. Whatever about all those stats I still can't see why you can't see that it's an advantage to clubs who only play one code or players who only play one code to get a 2 week break between every game over players in clubs like ours who have to play every week. And that's the advantage playing alternate weeks will give those clubs."
There is too many matches. Should never of went back to groups of 6. The format with 4 groups of 3 was far more manageable.

countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 742 - 06/10/2022 16:49:42    2443029

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Replying To countyman2022:  "There is too many matches. Should never of went back to groups of 6. The format with 4 groups of 3 was far more manageable."
If there were 3 groups of 4, how would you work out QF qualification?

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 06/10/2022 17:30:47    2443033

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Replying To countyman2022:  "There is too many matches. Should never of went back to groups of 6. The format with 4 groups of 3 was far more manageable."
sorry just realised I misread the comment

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 06/10/2022 17:31:19    2443034

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Replying To countyman2022:  "There is too many matches. Should never of went back to groups of 6. The format with 4 groups of 3 was far more manageable."
players dont agree

Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2897 - 06/10/2022 20:07:11    2443048

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Replying To countyman2022:  "More chance they will be gone back to junior rather than up to senior in my view."
Your obviously not following the underage scene too closely then

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 533 - 06/10/2022 20:39:53    2443050

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Replying To Viking66:  "Pre covid there wasn't potentially 16 games in 17 weeks. And decades ago there certainly wasn't. Martins and Gorey and Ferns all seemed to have many players in their football 1st 15s this year who didn't play in their 1st 15s for hurling this year. Shels also. Not sure about Barntown or Rapps/Starlights. I wasn't talking about the panels but then I haven't been following them that closely to know. They all still have the playing numbers to ensure that their players aren't starting the 16 consecutive weeks, with only I think 1 week off, that most of of our lads have had to do. Well it might only be 15 if we lose on Saturday! Although a core of our lads didn't just start all those games but finished them also unless they got injured.
Just out of interest and not being smart but because you know your stuff, how many players from those clubs have started every game, or even nearly every game, from those big clubs this year in both the football and hurling championships? I suspect its not as many as your post suggests. Whatever about all those stats I still can't see why you can't see that it's an advantage to clubs who only play one code or players who only play one code to get a 2 week break between every game over players in clubs like ours who have to play every week. And that's the advantage playing alternate weeks will give those clubs."
I guarantee you that the vast majority of clubs, even those with first teams down in junior grades have a very similar amount of players who only play first team with one code.

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 533 - 06/10/2022 20:50:24    2443053

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Replying To Onfor15:  "I guarantee you that the vast majority of clubs, even those with first teams down in junior grades have a very similar amount of players who only play first team with one code."
Like who? Name out a list of clubs. Most of Kilmores players apparently play both. Most Intermediate teams we have played have more than half their players playing 1st team for both. Fethard, Horeswood, Gusserane, Clongeen, Adamstown, Cushinstown also from talking to members of these clubs.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14127 - 07/10/2022 10:06:38    2443072

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