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CB have talked the talk in this mornings bulletin on last nights meeting with the referees. Hopefully they will now walk the walk.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6074 - 28/09/2022 07:28:48    2442096

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Replying To Viking66:  "CB have talked the talk in this mornings bulletin on last nights meeting with the referees. Hopefully they will now walk the walk."
Yes, it's a strong statement of intent all right.

I think particularly welcome is the fact that they're to kick off the process of bringing in much longer suspensions than 96 weeks for such offences, up to and including possible explusion from the GAA. Unfortunately they won't be able to impose a longer suspension for this particular offence, since they'll be bound by the Rule Book as it stood at the time the offence was committed, but seeking to be able to hand down more severe punishments in future should do away with allegations that they'd be happy to just give "a slap on the wrist" or sweep things under the carpet.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1200 - 28/09/2022 09:14:07    2442100

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Yes, it's a strong statement of intent all right.

I think particularly welcome is the fact that they're to kick off the process of bringing in much longer suspensions than 96 weeks for such offences, up to and including possible explusion from the GAA. Unfortunately they won't be able to impose a longer suspension for this particular offence, since they'll be bound by the Rule Book as it stood at the time the offence was committed, but seeking to be able to hand down more severe punishments in future should do away with allegations that they'd be happy to just give "a slap on the wrist" or sweep things under the carpet."
Yes for sure Pikeman. Alot of the stuff just won't work when the red mist descends. Respectful handshakes etc or behaviour classes in the past will be forgotten. But the thought you might be banned for life should provide some sort of deterrent.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6074 - 28/09/2022 10:54:34    2442111

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Replying To Viking66:  "Yes for sure Pikeman. Alot of the stuff just won't work when the red mist descends. Respectful handshakes etc or behaviour classes in the past will be forgotten. But the thought you might be banned for life should provide some sort of deterrent."
Agreed. Shaking hands with the ref before the game doesn't mean you won't be calling him a ******** ********* 20 minutes later.

And the club workshops could well turn out to be a case of at least some clubs not holding them at all and instead just ticking boxes on a form and saying things like "we spoke about it, accepted some of our members have been out of order in the past but thankfully not to the same degree we saw on Sunday, and we'll try do better in future".

Still though, the prospect of much longer or even lifetime bans should be a serious deterrent, and I'd like to think there'll be widespread support for it and the rules changed all right. I honestly don't see how anyone could argue against it.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1200 - 28/09/2022 11:59:53    2442118

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Replying To Viking66:  "Yes for sure Pikeman. Alot of the stuff just won't work when the red mist descends. Respectful handshakes etc or behaviour classes in the past will be forgotten. But the thought you might be banned for life should provide some sort of deterrent."
Also something that referees themselves would admit is that they have not always reported verbal abuse as much as they should have. That will change and I think what you will now see is far more names been taken by referees. If after clubs do their review and lads on the sideline keep up their abuse, what's the next step? Sure the lads can get bans themselves but was the club not supposed to have addressed it already? It has to get to the point where clubs themselves are sanctioned.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1502 - 28/09/2022 12:10:36    2442121

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I think the idea of meeting the referee before the game to say hello and shake hands is a good move.

I happen to know quite a few of the referees. When they are refereeing a game involving my club, I have found that no matter how bad I think their decisions are, it is very difficult to start abusing a person you already know.

It's much easier to shout something nasty at a person you don't know. So if the new procedures help referees, players and mentors to become more acquainted with each other prior to a game this should be a good thing.

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 459 - 28/09/2022 12:54:50    2442125

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Replying To zinny:  "Also something that referees themselves would admit is that they have not always reported verbal abuse as much as they should have. That will change and I think what you will now see is far more names been taken by referees. If after clubs do their review and lads on the sideline keep up their abuse, what's the next step? Sure the lads can get bans themselves but was the club not supposed to have addressed it already? It has to get to the point where clubs themselves are sanctioned."
I know County Board has in the past asked referees to be more stringent in reporting abuse. Unfortunately happens too regularly that refs don't actually report it afterwards, and so nothing can be done.

Good question about what are clubs supposed to do if some of their members still abuse refs after the workshops are held. It's one that requires further thought.

Incidentally, I think significant in last night's statement too is how they say they'll publish details in future of all suspensions and other sanctions handed down. I presume that will include details of what they're for. If people regularly see details of so-and-so being suspended for x weeks or games for abusing a referee, and maybe a fine or other sanction on their club, they might think twice themselves before doing the same.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1200 - 28/09/2022 13:24:03    2442132

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I think the ref's need to look at themselves in this also. Give Respect Get Respect has to work both ways. The way some officials talk and treat players is unacceptable. It is only a select 5 or 6 but unacceptable also. Still can't hit a ref of course don't take this up the wrong way.

countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 278 - 28/09/2022 14:12:19    2442139

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The respect workshops are pointless. Players won't turn up, or in true GAA style "of course we held it"........
I am a manager/player/supporter and hit a referee, and get a 2-year ban. I show up to a match in St. Patrick's or Wexford Park, is somebody going to turn me away? How will this be policed?
I wouldn't trust the GAA to police a lifetime ban for anybody.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 440 - 28/09/2022 15:07:18    2442147

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "The respect workshops are pointless. Players won't turn up, or in true GAA style "of course we held it"........
I am a manager/player/supporter and hit a referee, and get a 2-year ban. I show up to a match in St. Patrick's or Wexford Park, is somebody going to turn me away? How will this be policed?
I wouldn't trust the GAA to police a lifetime ban for anybody."
Just to point out that the bulletin from the meeting says the workshops are to be for team mentors from U11 up to adult, not for players. But I do agree and have already said how it could just be a case of at least some clubs just ticking a box and submitting a piece of fiction to say a workshop supposedly took place, who allegedly turned up, and what they claim to have spoken about.

On the other thing...you don't have to be a member of the GAA to just attend a match. Anyone at all can buy a ticket and turn up. Therefore, can't see how a long suspension or even expulsion from the Association would mean you're banned from actually attending matches. Would just mean you couldn't play an active part in the Association, either on a committee or with a team.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1200 - 28/09/2022 16:18:20    2442153

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Hard to understand why the People Newspaper thought it was a good idea to run that story.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1502 - 29/09/2022 11:44:09    2442220

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Replying To zinny:  "Hard to understand why the People Newspaper thought it was a good idea to run that story."
Why wasn't it a good idea from their point of view? Its a topical story and they are a newspaper. Its their job to report on stuff like this. What I cant understand is why the alleged culprit thought it was a good idea to agree to the interview. I think its fair to say it wouldnt have endeared him to people.

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 459 - 29/09/2022 12:49:04    2442226

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Replying To zinny:  "Hard to understand why the People Newspaper thought it was a good idea to run that story."
Which story?

alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 300 - 29/09/2022 13:03:45    2442228

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Replying To zinny:  "Hard to understand why the People Newspaper thought it was a good idea to run that story."
I read the full story in the paper last night (the inside bit, not just what was on the front), and have to say it doesn't sit well with me.

I've no problem with how he says sorry and admits he was wrong. But he's given far too much of a soapbox then to play the victim himself - "it was blown out of proportion", "my work will be affected by this", and even alleging that one of the umpires came at him.

The fact that there's an ongoing Garda investigation makes me think it's even more ill-advised on the newspaper's part. For instance, they sometimes run stories about somebody being attacked on the street, and say little more other than an assault occurred and Gardaí are investigating. They don't interview the attacker, even if everybody knows who he was, and give him an opportunity to make such excuses for his behaviour.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1200 - 29/09/2022 13:07:47    2442229

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I read the full story in the paper last night (the inside bit, not just what was on the front), and have to say it doesn't sit well with me.

I've no problem with how he says sorry and admits he was wrong. But he's given far too much of a soapbox then to play the victim himself - "it was blown out of proportion", "my work will be affected by this", and even alleging that one of the umpires came at him.

The fact that there's an ongoing Garda investigation makes me think it's even more ill-advised on the newspaper's part. For instance, they sometimes run stories about somebody being attacked on the street, and say little more other than an assault occurred and Gardaí are investigating. They don't interview the attacker, even if everybody knows who he was, and give him an opportunity to make such excuses for his behaviour."
Agree with you totally

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 18310 - 29/09/2022 13:21:13    2442231

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I read the full story in the paper last night (the inside bit, not just what was on the front), and have to say it doesn't sit well with me.

I've no problem with how he says sorry and admits he was wrong. But he's given far too much of a soapbox then to play the victim himself - "it was blown out of proportion", "my work will be affected by this", and even alleging that one of the umpires came at him.

The fact that there's an ongoing Garda investigation makes me think it's even more ill-advised on the newspaper's part. For instance, they sometimes run stories about somebody being attacked on the street, and say little more other than an assault occurred and Gardaí are investigating. They don't interview the attacker, even if everybody knows who he was, and give him an opportunity to make such excuses for his behaviour."
You nailed it.
Story compromises any subsequent investigation.
And he shouldn't get a soap box to play poor old me.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 440 - 29/09/2022 13:44:00    2442236

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Just to point out that the bulletin from the meeting says the workshops are to be for team mentors from U11 up to adult, not for players. But I do agree and have already said how it could just be a case of at least some clubs just ticking a box and submitting a piece of fiction to say a workshop supposedly took place, who allegedly turned up, and what they claim to have spoken about.

On the other thing...you don't have to be a member of the GAA to just attend a match. Anyone at all can buy a ticket and turn up. Therefore, can't see how a long suspension or even expulsion from the Association would mean you're banned from actually attending matches. Would just mean you couldn't play an active part in the Association, either on a committee or with a team."
I wonder if you are permitted to attend a match.
I remember a guy in the 90's in Dublin being banned, he wasn't allowed to attend a match but not sure if that was a club punishment or an official GAA one back then.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 440 - 29/09/2022 13:45:23    2442237

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Just to point out that the bulletin from the meeting says the workshops are to be for team mentors from U11 up to adult, not for players. But I do agree and have already said how it could just be a case of at least some clubs just ticking a box and submitting a piece of fiction to say a workshop supposedly took place, who allegedly turned up, and what they claim to have spoken about.

On the other thing...you don't have to be a member of the GAA to just attend a match. Anyone at all can buy a ticket and turn up. Therefore, can't see how a long suspension or even expulsion from the Association would mean you're banned from actually attending matches. Would just mean you couldn't play an active part in the Association, either on a committee or with a team."
We have our workshop next week. It's compulsory for u11s up and recommended for u7s and u9s mentors and managers. I'd say clubs will take this more seriously than you think.
Whether it will make any difference when a lad loses it on the sideline is still debatable though. I'm absolutely certain I've never met anyone who didn't do or say something they regretted afterwards after losing their temper.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6074 - 29/09/2022 13:52:06    2442239

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I read the full story in the paper last night (the inside bit, not just what was on the front), and have to say it doesn't sit well with me.

I've no problem with how he says sorry and admits he was wrong. But he's given far too much of a soapbox then to play the victim himself - "it was blown out of proportion", "my work will be affected by this", and even alleging that one of the umpires came at him.

The fact that there's an ongoing Garda investigation makes me think it's even more ill-advised on the newspaper's part. For instance, they sometimes run stories about somebody being attacked on the street, and say little more other than an assault occurred and Gardaí are investigating. They don't interview the attacker, even if everybody knows who he was, and give him an opportunity to make such excuses for his behaviour."
While he was really wrong to push the referee over you can't say the umpire, a cousin of the Referee according to the article, didn't come at him unless you were there. One thing going for the fella is I don't think Id've been able to publicly apologise in the local paper, with a picture of myself etc, whatever I had done. Certainly in private, but definitely not in public. Numerous refs have got numerous decisions wrong and you wouldn't see any of them apologise in public either, nor should they.
This doesn't change the fact that refs shouldn't be touched or threatened under any circumstances. But maybe it would help if the 2 managers could get 5 minutes after a game with the ref away from any crowd to ask for a decision or 2 to be explained.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6074 - 29/09/2022 14:05:11    2442241

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "I wonder if you are permitted to attend a match.
I remember a guy in the 90's in Dublin being banned, he wasn't allowed to attend a match but not sure if that was a club punishment or an official GAA one back then."
Have had a dig into the Rule Book and maybe you can be banned from attending matches after all. What it says for the categories of offences that include abuse or assault of a referee or other match official is:
A Suspension for all other Infractions provided for in Rule or County Bye-Laws means Suspension from all functions, privileges and Competitions under the Association's control, but not from membership of the Association.

Unclear to me though whether suspension from all competitons means only that you can't have an active role in them (as player, manager, etc.), or whether you can't even attend them.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1200 - 29/09/2022 14:41:43    2442247

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