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Wexford Football Championship

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Replying To zinny:  "Missed the point, the fact that you have one hurling club and 5 football clubs means that as a game football is far more popular in the town, what do you tell the lads who only play football? Wexford town and the surrounding areas has a big soccer support are you seriously thinking the answer is to ask them to play hurling?"
Not at all. It's up to the players themselves what they play. But that's the problem too. Alot of the better dual players seem to prefer hurling. And if lads prefer playing soccer there's not much the board or the clubs can do about that either.
It is a bit of a catch 22. If the county footballers were competing with Kerry, Dublin, Mayo, Tyrone etc more young lads would probably be encouraged to stick with football. But we aren't going to be competing with them, or even the Kildares and Meaths, unless more of the better teenage sportsmen in the county, who usually are good at hurling, soccer, football and maybe rugby too, choose football to start off with.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5742 - 28/05/2022 20:54:55    2420692

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Replying To zinny:  "Missed the point, the fact that you have one hurling club and 5 football clubs means that as a game football is far more popular in the town, what do you tell the lads who only play football? Wexford town and the surrounding areas has a big soccer support are you seriously thinking the answer is to ask them to play hurling?"
Who are the 5 football clubs? Vols, Sars, Mary's and Josephs and ? And you have 2 hurling clubs Clonard and Harriers.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5742 - 28/05/2022 21:17:48    2420694

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Replying To Viking66:  "Who are the 5 football clubs? Vols, Sars, Mary's and Josephs and ? And you have 2 hurling clubs Clonard and Harriers."
Yes your right I was adding in Clonard in the football count. Mind you they are they are a pretty small club however thats beside the point which is that, there are a lot of players who only play football and you cannot say just because hurling is available for them to play, there is no problem.
The biggest issue in the Wexford Championship in the past was when it would start because of the county involvement. That has been solved now with the new intercounty structure. I do not think the current structure benefits either - how can it benefit the County Hurling setup for a lot of the players to not have time to play or train for two months of more during the year. The leagues run side by side, then you ask lads who only play football to stop playing for almost three months over the summer - that makes no sense.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1493 - 29/05/2022 08:58:10    2420702

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Replying To Viking66:  "Who are the 5 football clubs? Vols, Sars, Mary's and Josephs and ? And you have 2 hurling clubs Clonard and Harriers."
clonard who have to joined with ger o hans to field an under 15 hurling tean and even then its only 13 a side, the co board ruined my old club

Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2422 - 29/05/2022 09:01:59    2420704

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Replying To Stmunnsriver:  "clonard who have to joined with ger o hans to field an under 15 hurling tean and even then its only 13 a side, the co board ruined my old club"
Jaysus that must be the furthest apart club link up yet, clonard to new Ross.

At another age group Ger's are linked up with cloughbawn also, there was a lot of fuss at co board level not that long ago to get work and support to Geraldine o hanrahans and a lot of talk, seems to be going well!!

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1006 - 29/05/2022 09:46:13    2420712

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Replying To Stmunnsriver:  "clonard who have to joined with ger o hans to field an under 15 hurling tean and even then its only 13 a side, the co board ruined my old club"
We played Clonard u9 last year and they had enough players that we played 2 games side by side u8 and u9.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5742 - 29/05/2022 11:23:00    2420733

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Replying To tearintom:  "Jaysus that must be the furthest apart club link up yet, clonard to new Ross.

At another age group Ger's are linked up with cloughbawn also, there was a lot of fuss at co board level not that long ago to get work and support to Geraldine o hanrahans and a lot of talk, seems to be going well!!"
Cloughbawn aren't too far from Gers compared to Clonard. It's baffling how poorly Gers are doing when you look at their catchment area and facilities.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5742 - 29/05/2022 11:25:16    2420734

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"As one of a number of fans who dont really go to football matchs but went to Killarney yesterday it was a very meek showing, kicking the ball out was even a challenge for Limerick. Hard to know how a team going playing Division 2 were so conservative in the way they set up and played. Hugely unentertaining to watch , i recall 2010 and 1991 as very exciting matchs but yesterday was a borefest, maybe thats modern gaelic football but be hard to attract any new Limerick fans playing like that ."

This is copied from the Limerick GAA thread. It highlights some of the problems with modern football. If you can't get lads interested in watching a sport it's even more difficult getting lads to play it.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5742 - 29/05/2022 11:27:24    2420735

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Replying To tearintom:  "100%

The u20 is a case in point along with the split season. Yet people on here would have you believe everything possible is being done by the county board and all the fault lies with the clubs. This is the bit that gets to me to be honest.

Of course clubs can and need to do more but they also need support in doing so.

The split season is a disaster, let's leave lads doing nothing for nigh on 2 months and then start playing football the same time all the other sports that take from football are kicking off ie rugby and soccer for example.

But of course it's all the clubs fault!

Make suggestions to try something else and get shot down with ah shur what's the point, I hope I'm wrong but I can see the review being set up going along the same lines.

Personally I would have liked it to be overseen by an outsider with no allegiance within the county to either sport but let's see what comes from it."
You continue to maintain that little or nothing is the fault of the clubs, but then you complain that the split season is a disaster because of how there'll be no football for a few months. Do you realise that was completely down to how clubs voted on the issue?

Something like 80% of club delegates voted at the meeting that decided these things for a split season, with hurling first.

After it was decided that the championships would go back to two groups of six, the County Board management committee's preference was that it would be run in blocks of two weeks hurling, two week football, etc. But the clubs voted against that and decided instead that all the hurling should be played first.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1037 - 29/05/2022 13:27:58    2420744

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "You continue to maintain that little or nothing is the fault of the clubs, but then you complain that the split season is a disaster because of how there'll be no football for a few months. Do you realise that was completely down to how clubs voted on the issue?

Something like 80% of club delegates voted at the meeting that decided these things for a split season, with hurling first.

After it was decided that the championships would go back to two groups of six, the County Board management committee's preference was that it would be run in blocks of two weeks hurling, two week football, etc. But the clubs voted against that and decided instead that all the hurling should be played first."
Hurling clubs hold the majority, that's a fact and voted to put hurling first, who would have thought?

And when have I claimed little or nothing is the fault of the clubs, I've numerous times admitted the clubs need to do more but have countered the narrative that it's all on the clubs and none of it on the county board like you and others have been spouting.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1006 - 29/05/2022 17:19:11    2420798

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Replying To tearintom:  "Hurling clubs hold the majority, that's a fact and voted to put hurling first, who would have thought?

And when have I claimed little or nothing is the fault of the clubs, I've numerous times admitted the clubs need to do more but have countered the narrative that it's all on the clubs and none of it on the county board like you and others have been spouting."
Tone of your posts all along has suggested that while you accept some fault lies with the clubs, you believe most of it lies with the County Board. Apologies if I'm picking you up incorrectly, but that's definitely the way it seems.

And for the record, I've never said that it's all on the clubs and none on the Co. Board. I believe it's probably somewhere around 50-50. County Board are at least showing some willingess to try re-invigorate football through the reivew process recently announced. God only know what it'll turn out to be like, but let's at least give them the benefit of the doubt for the moment. Ideally, clubs and individuals like yourself will buy into it, instead of just making a blanket "more should be done" complaint.

But at the end of the day, think we do all have to be conscious that hurling is the more popular sport in Wexford, and probably always will be. I often say I'm not a religious man but I do like that serenity prayer about having the wisdom to know the things I cannot change. Football can only play the hand it's dealt. We just have to try find a way for both clubs and Co. Board to play that hand a little better.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1037 - 29/05/2022 21:17:36    2420896

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Replying To tearintom:  "Hurling clubs hold the majority, that's a fact and voted to put hurling first, who would have thought?

And when have I claimed little or nothing is the fault of the clubs, I've numerous times admitted the clubs need to do more but have countered the narrative that it's all on the clubs and none of it on the county board like you and others have been spouting."
I think the downturn in interest in football in general is affecting more than just Wexford. The only provincial final that was truly competitive, the Ulster final, had more handpasses than a game of rugby and was brutally dull to watch as a neutral. The game needs to change to encourage young lads to choose it over hurling. It's noticeable that the counties pulling away in football are either entirely or in large areas football first or football only.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5742 - 30/05/2022 08:05:32    2420917

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Tone of your posts all along has suggested that while you accept some fault lies with the clubs, you believe most of it lies with the County Board. Apologies if I'm picking you up incorrectly, but that's definitely the way it seems.

And for the record, I've never said that it's all on the clubs and none on the Co. Board. I believe it's probably somewhere around 50-50. County Board are at least showing some willingess to try re-invigorate football through the reivew process recently announced. God only know what it'll turn out to be like, but let's at least give them the benefit of the doubt for the moment. Ideally, clubs and individuals like yourself will buy into it, instead of just making a blanket "more should be done" complaint.

But at the end of the day, think we do all have to be conscious that hurling is the more popular sport in Wexford, and probably always will be. I often say I'm not a religious man but I do like that serenity prayer about having the wisdom to know the things I cannot change. Football can only play the hand it's dealt. We just have to try find a way for both clubs and Co. Board to play that hand a little better."
Yep i couldnt agree more tbh.

Its funny but i prefer hurling but being completely dual i do feel like football needs a serious boost and more attention than its been given and ive seen arguments that more than enough is being done and its all on the clubs, well if thats the case why are we having a review then?

Football will always play second fiddle, thats a fact and hopefully the review coming up will help to improve things across the board, i could argue why has it taken so long for that to happen but its happening thats the main thing

One area i think may need to change which would probably prove to be controversial for both hurling and football in the county is that football gets treated completely differently. At the moment we run competitions etc on the basis of it being the same across the board, football and hurling. Does it have to be that way, no imho.

For example i think theres possibly less of a gap between the grades compared to hurling, would football benefit from having more teams in senior football? Could we look at 4 regional teams playing senior football made up of players from football teams say junior, junior a or even intermediate a etc.

I just believe we need to start thinking outside the box a bit but will we just get the usual sure whats the point? I guess time will tell but lets see what comes from it.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1006 - 30/05/2022 11:19:56    2420994

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Replying To tearintom:  "Yep i couldnt agree more tbh.

Its funny but i prefer hurling but being completely dual i do feel like football needs a serious boost and more attention than its been given and ive seen arguments that more than enough is being done and its all on the clubs, well if thats the case why are we having a review then?

Football will always play second fiddle, thats a fact and hopefully the review coming up will help to improve things across the board, i could argue why has it taken so long for that to happen but its happening thats the main thing

One area i think may need to change which would probably prove to be controversial for both hurling and football in the county is that football gets treated completely differently. At the moment we run competitions etc on the basis of it being the same across the board, football and hurling. Does it have to be that way, no imho.

For example i think theres possibly less of a gap between the grades compared to hurling, would football benefit from having more teams in senior football? Could we look at 4 regional teams playing senior football made up of players from football teams say junior, junior a or even intermediate a etc.

I just believe we need to start thinking outside the box a bit but will we just get the usual sure whats the point? I guess time will tell but lets see what comes from it."
What exactly are you wanting Tom? Wexford to be more competitive in Leinster? Has to start with our development squad structures. Minors got hammered by Meath. We aren't competitive with the top counties underage and that's leaving aside Dublin.
At senior Yes we beat an understrength Offaly and then ran a near full strength Offaly very close. They walked on Wicklow the weekend. So I don't think we are as bad as our League position would suggest. Carlow had a good win too. There's probably not much between any of the teams in divs 3 and 4. We play a fairly attacking style of football but still don't score enough. Even if hurling got banned in the county most of the lads on the hurling panel who would get on the football panel aren't forwards anyway.
Most young lads, u9 upwards, want to be forwards. So why have we so few top ones? Is it coaching? At what age do lads start practicing shooting for points off both feet from all over the pitch? There's no specific shooting practice happening at u9 and very little at u11. Is that the problem?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5742 - 30/05/2022 11:50:03    2421017

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Replying To Viking66:  "What exactly are you wanting Tom? Wexford to be more competitive in Leinster? Has to start with our development squad structures. Minors got hammered by Meath. We aren't competitive with the top counties underage and that's leaving aside Dublin.
At senior Yes we beat an understrength Offaly and then ran a near full strength Offaly very close. They walked on Wicklow the weekend. So I don't think we are as bad as our League position would suggest. Carlow had a good win too. There's probably not much between any of the teams in divs 3 and 4. We play a fairly attacking style of football but still don't score enough. Even if hurling got banned in the county most of the lads on the hurling panel who would get on the football panel aren't forwards anyway.
Most young lads, u9 upwards, want to be forwards. So why have we so few top ones? Is it coaching? At what age do lads start practicing shooting for points off both feet from all over the pitch? There's no specific shooting practice happening at u9 and very little at u11. Is that the problem?"
I want to see wexford football improve across the board, isnt that obvious?

Of course standard need to change across the board from underage up etc, ive made loads of suggestions from getting in a couple of well known names at underage etc to help with coaching and generate interest from underage for example which was met with "whats the point from you and others"

Ive suggested treating championship structures etc differently in football and hurling, looking at the possibility of regional teams competing made up of clubs who have decent footballers but arent getting the same exposure.

Surely everyone wants Wexford to be more competitive at football, no?

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1006 - 30/05/2022 12:44:02    2421041

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Replying To tearintom:  "Yep i couldnt agree more tbh.

Its funny but i prefer hurling but being completely dual i do feel like football needs a serious boost and more attention than its been given and ive seen arguments that more than enough is being done and its all on the clubs, well if thats the case why are we having a review then?

Football will always play second fiddle, thats a fact and hopefully the review coming up will help to improve things across the board, i could argue why has it taken so long for that to happen but its happening thats the main thing

One area i think may need to change which would probably prove to be controversial for both hurling and football in the county is that football gets treated completely differently. At the moment we run competitions etc on the basis of it being the same across the board, football and hurling. Does it have to be that way, no imho.

For example i think theres possibly less of a gap between the grades compared to hurling, would football benefit from having more teams in senior football? Could we look at 4 regional teams playing senior football made up of players from football teams say junior, junior a or even intermediate a etc.

I just believe we need to start thinking outside the box a bit but will we just get the usual sure whats the point? I guess time will tell but lets see what comes from it."
I think it's a valid question whether we should consider running the club football championships differently to the hurling ones. Wexford is one of the few counties that currently runs both exactly the same way. But even if you did that with the best of intentions, you'd probably still be accused of trying to "do down" football.

Suppose for example you expanded senior football to 16 teams, with the intention of letting more people play at the highest grade, in the hope of bringing on standards overall.

Obvious way to run it would be four groups of four, with the top two going through to quarter finals. But then there'd be complaints about football being sidelined because of how players would only get three groups games instead of five in hurling, and how only half the teams in football would go through (eight from sixteen) instead of two-thirds of them in hurling (eight from twelve).

As for District teams, I've often heard people call for it, but I've never heard anybody explain how it would work in practice. For example, how would a Wexford District team drawing players from the likes of Rosslare, Kilmore and St. Joseph's take part in the senior championship if those clubs still have games in the Junior or Junior 'A' championships, that would normally be played around the same time? Do you hold up the lower grades until all the District teams are out of senior?

Or suppose two or three lads from the Shelmaliers or Sarsfields second teams were picked to play for Wexford District, and they were coming up against their own club in a senior knock-out match. How would that work? Would you really expect them to go hell for leather to knock their own club out of the championship?

Before you ask, no, I don't know how these things work in other counties that use District teams. Would be interested to hear, though.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1037 - 30/05/2022 12:56:08    2421051

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Replying To tearintom:  "I want to see wexford football improve across the board, isnt that obvious?

Of course standard need to change across the board from underage up etc, ive made loads of suggestions from getting in a couple of well known names at underage etc to help with coaching and generate interest from underage for example which was met with "whats the point from you and others"

Ive suggested treating championship structures etc differently in football and hurling, looking at the possibility of regional teams competing made up of clubs who have decent footballers but arent getting the same exposure.

Surely everyone wants Wexford to be more competitive at football, no?"
This post wasn't up when I started typing the last one.

Anyway, just to point out (again!) that I don't think your suggestion of getting some well-known names in at underage level was met with a "sure what's the point". I definitely didn't say that myself anyway. I simply stated that it might be a difficult thing to do, and that's a very different thing.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1037 - 30/05/2022 12:59:06    2421057

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Replying To tearintom:  "I want to see wexford football improve across the board, isnt that obvious?

Of course standard need to change across the board from underage up etc, ive made loads of suggestions from getting in a couple of well known names at underage etc to help with coaching and generate interest from underage for example which was met with "whats the point from you and others"

Ive suggested treating championship structures etc differently in football and hurling, looking at the possibility of regional teams competing made up of clubs who have decent footballers but arent getting the same exposure.

Surely everyone wants Wexford to be more competitive at football, no?"
I never said what's the point. Like you I'd like to see Wexford getting back to being at least competitive in Leinster semi finals the way they were in the noughties. I've made the point that more of our top dual players choose hurling over football from u15 upwards. This is partly because more Wexford people like watching hurling than football. I remember loads of doubleheaders in the late noughties when alot of lads didn't even bother going slightly earlier to support the footballers in Leinster semifinals they might win but would rather only turn up for the subsequent Leinster hurling final when most knew deep down we weren't going to beat Kilkenny. Top players probably want to play in front of big crowds as well as winning stuff. And the way modern football has developed isn't going to encourage people to go bring the kids to see it. Did you watch, or try to watch, the 4 provincial finals last weekend? I'd rather have watched our u15 development squad playing an internal training game tbh. Each year I watch around 15 or 20 football games. Last year there were probably only 4 or 5 I found entertaining. And only the last 3, the 2 AI semifinals and the final, approached anywhere near any game of hurling for atmosphere and entertainment.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5742 - 30/05/2022 13:08:34    2421060

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Replying To tearintom:  "I want to see wexford football improve across the board, isnt that obvious?

Of course standard need to change across the board from underage up etc, ive made loads of suggestions from getting in a couple of well known names at underage etc to help with coaching and generate interest from underage for example which was met with "whats the point from you and others"

Ive suggested treating championship structures etc differently in football and hurling, looking at the possibility of regional teams competing made up of clubs who have decent footballers but arent getting the same exposure.

Surely everyone wants Wexford to be more competitive at football, no?"
At a realistic level as regards divisional teams made up of junior A, Junior and Intermediate A players how will it be practically possible when these clubs will be losing their best players for training sessions and maybe championship games? Also alot of teams at these levels are actually some of the stronger clubs second teams. How could they play against their own clubs first teams then? How would it work in practice? I agree new ideas need to be tried but I'm not sure this idea works. Hopefully the Boards newly announced review might come up with positive suggestions and the Board backs these with the necessary finances. Certainly better football specific coaches going around the Schools and Clubs underage teams could be financed more by the Board. But they can't make more of Wexfords population like football as much as they like hurling. And that's a big part of the problem.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5742 - 30/05/2022 13:16:39    2421065

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I think it's a valid question whether we should consider running the club football championships differently to the hurling ones. Wexford is one of the few counties that currently runs both exactly the same way. But even if you did that with the best of intentions, you'd probably still be accused of trying to "do down" football.

Suppose for example you expanded senior football to 16 teams, with the intention of letting more people play at the highest grade, in the hope of bringing on standards overall.

Obvious way to run it would be four groups of four, with the top two going through to quarter finals. But then there'd be complaints about football being sidelined because of how players would only get three groups games instead of five in hurling, and how only half the teams in football would go through (eight from sixteen) instead of two-thirds of them in hurling (eight from twelve).

As for District teams, I've often heard people call for it, but I've never heard anybody explain how it would work in practice. For example, how would a Wexford District team drawing players from the likes of Rosslare, Kilmore and St. Joseph's take part in the senior championship if those clubs still have games in the Junior or Junior 'A' championships, that would normally be played around the same time? Do you hold up the lower grades until all the District teams are out of senior?

Or suppose two or three lads from the Shelmaliers or Sarsfields second teams were picked to play for Wexford District, and they were coming up against their own club in a senior knock-out match. How would that work? Would you really expect them to go hell for leather to knock their own club out of the championship?

Before you ask, no, I don't know how these things work in other counties that use District teams. Would be interested to hear, though."
You have made the same points as me re divisional teams Pikeman! I think the championship in Cork gets extended timewise. But alot of other counties don't have the same proportion of dual players as we have so maybe that makes it easier. Some stages of the hurling and football championships might get run off concurrently in those counties.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5742 - 30/05/2022 13:21:18    2421067

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