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Replying To wexico15: " Replying To Onfor15: "Just on your last line. It is amazing in all my years going to games, the number of people, including players and even referees, who do not know the rules.
A 45 is a 45 metre free, in the same way as a 65 is a 65 metre free. To quote the rule directly
"When the ball is played over the endline and outside the goalposts by the team defending that end, a free kick off the ground shall be awarded to the opposing team on the 45m line opposite where the ball crossed the endline."
A 45 is a free kick so all of the rules of free kicks apply to a 45 as they would to any other free (except for having to take the 45 off the ground)
If dissent is shown, then the referee can bring up any free, including a 45 or 65." I've never seen it either but you learn something new every day."
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 04/10/2021 12:59:51
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On a related matter - I was reading in the paper recently where Mr furlong was taking issue with the fact that the same referees seem to be getting all the gigs in wexford Park and what qualifies certain people to be 4th Official etc. I had a little giggle to myself as i seem to remember about 5 years ago the same Mr Furlong took to grading referees on their performances after every game and posting a mark out of 5 for each of them. I wonder which he wants - better referees on the big games - (or maybe hes not happy that he has less to be giving out about!!!) As a player in the business end of the Championship i would want the best referees in charge and if that limits the pick to 10 or 12 refs well so be it. It does nothing for referees or the games to appoint people who aren't up to the job.
While i'm on it i have to comment on the other 'journalists' (Mr Aherne) recent obsession with counting the number of frees awarded in the game and inferring that that somehow reflects on the referee solely. If two teams come to play football or hurling there will be less frees. I agree picky referees are a pain but to suggest that the free count is down to the referee alone is a bit silly.
indaknownow (Offaly) - Posts: 112 - 04/10/2021 14:18:05
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Replying To indaknownow: "On a related matter - I was reading in the paper recently where Mr furlong was taking issue with the fact that the same referees seem to be getting all the gigs in wexford Park and what qualifies certain people to be 4th Official etc. I had a little giggle to myself as i seem to remember about 5 years ago the same Mr Furlong took to grading referees on their performances after every game and posting a mark out of 5 for each of them. I wonder which he wants - better referees on the big games - (or maybe hes not happy that he has less to be giving out about!!!) As a player in the business end of the Championship i would want the best referees in charge and if that limits the pick to 10 or 12 refs well so be it. It does nothing for referees or the games to appoint people who aren't up to the job.
While i'm on it i have to comment on the other 'journalists' (Mr Aherne) recent obsession with counting the number of frees awarded in the game and inferring that that somehow reflects on the referee solely. If two teams come to play football or hurling there will be less frees. I agree picky referees are a pain but to suggest that the free count is down to the referee alone is a bit silly." Was actually going to post on this myself. An article which lacked any logic whatsoever.
It read like a rant on behalf of an unhappy referee.
As far as I understand it, referees undergo a rules assessment and a fitness test each year. Only referees who get certain marks in both will be considered to referee senior and intermediate matches. After that it is down to a referees performance I suppose.
Having said that, there are a couple of referees who are regulars on the big occasion that I wouldn't have anywhere near it, but in general the pool of referees we have at the top is decent and I fully agree with the current practice that officials for top grade matches being picked from those who have met the criteria for the senior panel.
The alternative is to have lower grade referees officiating at top games and I don't see how that could be of benefit to anyone.
And with regard to Aherne including free counts. I like it. Its shows a pattern of which referees are better able to handle more tricky games.
There are certain overly fussy referees who are always at the centre of controversy regardless of what teams are playing, whilst there are other referees who are better able to control a game without being overly fussy and are rarely at the centre of controversy.
So knowing the free count for any isolated game isn't much use, it is very useful over a season to see a pattern developing.
Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 524 - 04/10/2021 15:24:13
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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To wexico15: "[quote=Onfor15: "Just on your last line. It is amazing in all my years going to games, the number of people, including players and even referees, who do not know the rules.
A 45 is a 45 metre free, in the same way as a 65 is a 65 metre free. To quote the rule directly
"When the ball is played over the endline and outside the goalposts by the team defending that end, a free kick off the ground shall be awarded to the opposing team on the 45m line opposite where the ball crossed the endline."
A 45 is a free kick so all of the rules of free kicks apply to a 45 as they would to any other free (except for having to take the 45 off the ground)
If dissent is shown, then the referee can bring up any free, including a 45 or 65." I've never seen it either but you learn something new every day."
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1804 - 04/10/2021 15:35:22
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Replying To Onfor15: "Was actually going to post on this myself. An article which lacked any logic whatsoever.
It read like a rant on behalf of an unhappy referee.
As far as I understand it, referees undergo a rules assessment and a fitness test each year. Only referees who get certain marks in both will be considered to referee senior and intermediate matches. After that it is down to a referees performance I suppose.
Having said that, there are a couple of referees who are regulars on the big occasion that I wouldn't have anywhere near it, but in general the pool of referees we have at the top is decent and I fully agree with the current practice that officials for top grade matches being picked from those who have met the criteria for the senior panel.
The alternative is to have lower grade referees officiating at top games and I don't see how that could be of benefit to anyone.
And with regard to Aherne including free counts. I like it. Its shows a pattern of which referees are better able to handle more tricky games.
There are certain overly fussy referees who are always at the centre of controversy regardless of what teams are playing, whilst there are other referees who are better able to control a game without being overly fussy and are rarely at the centre of controversy.
So knowing the free count for any isolated game isn't much use, it is very useful over a season to see a pattern developing." Cant really argue with much of what you have said there.
Anyone care to name who they rank in the top 5 or 10 referees in both codes. Therese a couple who only do one code.
indaknownow (Offaly) - Posts: 112 - 05/10/2021 10:38:58
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Replying To indaknownow: "Cant really argue with much of what you have said there.
Anyone care to name who they rank in the top 5 or 10 referees in both codes. Therese a couple who only do one code." I see Mr Aherne has taken up the issue in this weeks papers - According to him the 6 top referees in hurling are. James Owens, Justin Heffernan, John Carton, Barry Redmond, Dan Crosby and Gearoid Mc Grath. All of these (with the Exception of Dan Crosby who doesnt referee Football) would be high on the football list. Add to that Kevin Carthy and Fintan OReilly who are football only refs. For my own part i would say that Thomas Furlong and Mattie Kinnard seem to be doing well of late and would be up there in the top 10. Honestly there is one of the original refs that frustrate me - because he is so pedantic and picky and the game always seems to be about him. (even when he is on the line or a fourth official) I would be happy enough with most of the rest of them tho.
indaknownow (Offaly) - Posts: 112 - 05/10/2021 16:16:42
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Pretty boring predictions this weekend you'd have to fancy the favourites in the senior games.
Sarsfields v St Martins- Likely Chin will be back as he played for the Sars Juniors recovering from injury but you'd have to fancy the Martins, there the sort of club who should benefit hugely from the split season.
Horeswood v Glynn- Glynn were unconvincing by reports last weekend, while short Jamie Myler and a few others Horeswood were meant to have been poor too, I think Glynn have plenty of scope for improvement and enough to get the win
Fethard v Shels- Fethard haven't really contended strongly in the last 5 years in terms of making semi finals etc. I think Shels should benefit from the good quality game last week v Gusserane and emerge as group winners.
Castletown v Bunclody- Hard to see anything only a comfortable Castletown win against a Bunclody side who will do well to survive relegation in my opinion.
Starlights v St James- St James can be a dangerous opponent but I think having the game under the belt is a benefit and with that I'd fancy the Enniscorthy men to top the group.
Intermediate
Crossabeg v Glynn- Crossabeg
Cushinstown v Rosslare- Cushinstown
Taghmon v Duffry- Draw
Ferns v St Fintans- Ferns
bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 05/10/2021 16:22:50
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Replying To indaknownow: "I see Mr Aherne has taken up the issue in this weeks papers - According to him the 6 top referees in hurling are. James Owens, Justin Heffernan, John Carton, Barry Redmond, Dan Crosby and Gearoid Mc Grath. All of these (with the Exception of Dan Crosby who doesnt referee Football) would be high on the football list. Add to that Kevin Carthy and Fintan OReilly who are football only refs. For my own part i would say that Thomas Furlong and Mattie Kinnard seem to be doing well of late and would be up there in the top 10. Honestly there is one of the original refs that frustrate me - because he is so pedantic and picky and the game always seems to be about him. (even when he is on the line or a fourth official) I would be happy enough with most of the rest of them tho." Maybe a controversial view but like the 2 Monageer refs John Carton and O'Loughlin, both let the game flow and don't fall for lads buying soft frees, I'm not advocating a bloodbath but there 2 physical 2 sports when it comes to it.
We always here of poor referring performances at times but the few games I was at last weekend I taught the refs did good jobs.
bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 05/10/2021 16:27:28
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Replying To indaknownow: "I see Mr Aherne has taken up the issue in this weeks papers - According to him the 6 top referees in hurling are. James Owens, Justin Heffernan, John Carton, Barry Redmond, Dan Crosby and Gearoid Mc Grath. All of these (with the Exception of Dan Crosby who doesnt referee Football) would be high on the football list. Add to that Kevin Carthy and Fintan OReilly who are football only refs. For my own part i would say that Thomas Furlong and Mattie Kinnard seem to be doing well of late and would be up there in the top 10. Honestly there is one of the original refs that frustrate me - because he is so pedantic and picky and the game always seems to be about him. (even when he is on the line or a fourth official) I would be happy enough with most of the rest of them tho." One of those top 6 isn't within an asses roar of being in the top 6.
From a hurling point of view:
Owens, Carton, Heffernan, Crosby, Redmond are top 5 in my book.
Matty Kinnaird, John O'Loughlin, Thomas Furlong, Eamon Furlong and Brian O'Leary would be next best. But I haven't seen O'Leary in action at all this season. David O'Leary is usually keen to let the game flow and keep a low profile too.
I'd also agree re Kevin Carty and Fintan O'Reilly who do football only, they'd be in the top 5 football refs.
Football top 5 would probably be Carty, O'Reilly, Carton, Redmond and Thomas Furlong. Billy Dodd is also a decent referee who does football only.
I have no worries when any of the above turn up to referee my club. I'm confident that a sensible job would be done. There are others who have done senior championship this season that I wouldn't share the same confidence about.
Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 524 - 05/10/2021 17:02:16
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Replying To indaknownow: "Cant really argue with much of what you have said there.
Anyone care to name who they rank in the top 5 or 10 referees in both codes. Therese a couple who only do one code." Mick Gannon, hands down, best in the business !!!!
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1337 - 06/10/2021 09:36:33
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Replying To beano: "Don't want to sound like that guy again, and bang on the same drum, but I see they are only showing 2 of the senior matches this weekend, compared to every senior hurling match being covered despite the harder logistics with no double-headers in place. Yes, the game at 2PM tomorrow in Taghmon clashes with the fixture in O'Kennedy Park, but even then the double-header in New Ross are attractive matches.
I know they said they will review whether it impacts the attendances, but will they have a Player of the Week feature, or previews? I won't hold my breath. But sure, one of the regulars on the hurling panel can remember the uncle of a fella playing back in 1994- that's gold." Well they had a player of the week and it was a Castletown man for good measure, presume they filmed a preview at the same time.
bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 06/10/2021 09:46:33
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Replying To wexico15: "Well they had a player of the week and it was a Castletown man for good measure, presume they filmed a preview at the same time." My team of of week one:
Michael Ryan (Gusserane)- Kept his side in it with a string of saves.
Ryan Furlong (Sarsfields)- has been excellent the last couple of years now and nominated for Player of the Week.
Joe O'Connor (St.Martin's)- lack of stand-out performers so went for lad on team who conceded the least.
Joe Barrett (St.Martin's)- emerging talent who I think could be one to keep an eye on.
Frank Roche (Castletown)- involved in a lot of Castletown's good attacking work and under-rated defensively.
Glen Malone (Shels)- nine points (I know the majority were frees) and the heartbeat for Shels.
Rowan White (Glynn)- goal from wing-back and his pace is a key asset.
Paudie Hughes (Kilanerin)- limited Coleman by not allowing him to catch ball and kicked two excellent points in first half.
Daithi Waters (St.Martin's)- man mountain whose full fitness will be crucial for Martin's contending.
Robbie Brooks (Castletown)- four points from play and a constant threat with his pace.
Dee O'Keeffe (St.Anne's)- 2-1 from play in a tough assignment for the defending champs
Alan Tobin (Starlights)- maintained his excellent recent form with 1-3 from play.
Kyle Firman (St.Martin's)- 1-3 from play as well and another player to keep an eye on for the future.
Sean Ryan (Gusserane)- 2-1 including a peach of a second goal.
Vinny Quinlan (Castletown)- only scored one point, but was lively on his debut and linked the attack well.
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1417 - 06/10/2021 10:47:37
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Replying To wexico15: "Well they had a player of the week and it was a Castletown man for good measure, presume they filmed a preview at the same time." Tony Dempseys debut on the commentary, let's say we won't judge anyone based on their first performance.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1804 - 06/10/2021 12:59:11
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Replying To wexico15: "Pretty boring predictions this weekend you'd have to fancy the favourites in the senior games.
Sarsfields v St Martins- Likely Chin will be back as he played for the Sars Juniors recovering from injury but you'd have to fancy the Martins, there the sort of club who should benefit hugely from the split season.
Horeswood v Glynn- Glynn were unconvincing by reports last weekend, while short Jamie Myler and a few others Horeswood were meant to have been poor too, I think Glynn have plenty of scope for improvement and enough to get the win
Fethard v Shels- Fethard haven't really contended strongly in the last 5 years in terms of making semi finals etc. I think Shels should benefit from the good quality game last week v Gusserane and emerge as group winners.
Castletown v Bunclody- Hard to see anything only a comfortable Castletown win against a Bunclody side who will do well to survive relegation in my opinion.
Starlights v St James- St James can be a dangerous opponent but I think having the game under the belt is a benefit and with that I'd fancy the Enniscorthy men to top the group.
Intermediate
Crossabeg v Glynn- Crossabeg
Cushinstown v Rosslare- Cushinstown
Taghmon v Duffry- Draw
Ferns v St Fintans- Ferns" Hard to argue with any of your predictions except Martin's were off form in the hurling and that might carry over into the football too. Maddock is still travelling and will be a loss also. Ciaran Lyng not playing either. Wouldnt be surprised by a Sars win. Also hoping Taghmon can win as I imagine Gorey will be better than they were against Duffry the next time out.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 06/10/2021 13:27:20
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Replying To Viking66: "Hard to argue with any of your predictions except Martin's were off form in the hurling and that might carry over into the football too. Maddock is still travelling and will be a loss also. Ciaran Lyng not playing either. Wouldnt be surprised by a Sars win. Also hoping Taghmon can win as I imagine Gorey will be better than they were against Duffry the next time out." Hard to know with the Martin's, in past years they always had the excuse they were focused on hurling perhaps after been in a relegation battle they may have decided to try and get some pride back through the football but who knows.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1804 - 06/10/2021 16:45:43
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What age is Robbie Brooks? I saw his scores on Player of the week and he looks like a good scoring forward with pace and power.
Groundball (Wexford) - Posts: 122 - 06/10/2021 20:42:31
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Replying To Groundball: "What age is Robbie Brooks? I saw his scores on Player of the week and he looks like a good scoring forward with pace and power." Think he's 22 or 23 was in the Wexford panel this year.
bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 07/10/2021 09:38:15
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St.Martin's-Sarsfields: don't agree that St.Martin's could be caught here. If anything, they have always been supreme in the group stages over the last few years, they just haven't pushed on in the knockouts. Chin working his way back to fitness will hep Sarsfields a lot, and I don't think they will be as bad as Horeswood were. There is the local element as well which always adds to the occasion, but still think St.Martin's will win by 3-4 points.
Horeswood- Glynn: Horeswood only scored two points from play (one from their starting six forwards) last day out, and on that display you'd have to place them among the relegation candidates. Glynn made hard work of it enough against Sarsfields and are perhaps too defensive to really contend, but still expect them to be too strong here.
Shelmaliers-Fethard: Fethard going in quite cold in comparison to Shels whose fitness told in the end vs Gusserane. Fethard are always a tough nut to crack and may frustrate Shelmaliers for long passages. Likes of Dwyer and Tubritt can do enough damage at the other end too. Going to go off on a limb here and predict Fethard to win by a point.
Bunclody-Castletown: Bunclody couldn't possibly be as bad as they were last year, and have the experienced Pat Roe on board this time around. They have plenty of young footballers coming through, and you'd imagine Martin O'Connor will pick up Coleman who is quickly becoming a marked man. Castletown were wasteful and at times lethargic vs Kilanerin and still won by seven, and think they will push on here to win quite comfortably. Bunclody will beat Kilanerin the following week though.
St.James-Starlights: a repeat of last year's quarter-final when lady luck went against the Jimmies. You'd imagine they'll be much the same this year, and rely on the excellence of KOG to get through most matches. I do think they have better overall quality than St.Anne's though, and considering they pushed Starlights all the way to the finish the last day, they won't be without hope. But I think the defending champs will prevail by a couple of points.
Intermediate:
Glynn-Crossabeg: Crossabeg trounced Ballyhogue in a peculiar match last Sunday, where it was 0-2 to 0-1 at the first water break, and they hammered in three quick goals in the second half. Glynn have had a meteoric rise up the ranks lately and you can't beat a winning environment. But Crossabeg should win by a few points and are one of my picks to be the promotion shake-up.
Taghmon-Duffry: Duffry finished strongly against Naomh Eanna, but Taghmon will be a step-up again. But sides have the tools to go deep in the competition but don't know if either of them have the full arsenal to go all the way. Gun to head, Taghmon by a couple of points.
Cushinstown-Rosslare: good win in adversity for Cushinstown last week, and Rosslare will be obdurate but may lack the overall quality to contend. Cushinstown to win.
Ferns-St.Fintan's: the Fintan's will be buoyed by their junior A hurling success and given their rather small pool of players, you'd imagine the crossover will be quite high. Ferns had a ding-dong tussle with Maudlintown last week, and unearthed more sources of scoring with Ryan Nolan only featuring off the bench. Think they will win here and be close again.
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1417 - 07/10/2021 10:36:35
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Just as an aside its kinda sad to see two of the most historically successful football clubs in the county shipping two serious beatings.
The Vols only scored 2 points in being beaten by Adamstown in Intermediate A and concded the game in Junior B.
Ballyhogue by all accounts were lucky to only lose by 15 points in Intermediate football to Crossabeg/Ballymurn and apparently only picked up 3 or 4 of their 7 points in the last quarter when the game was over.
Whatever about the Vols Ballyhogue have had success underage in recent years so you would have thought it would start to pull through but seems to be some issues there.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1337 - 07/10/2021 16:18:55
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Replying To tearintom: "Just as an aside its kinda sad to see two of the most historically successful football clubs in the county shipping two serious beatings.
The Vols only scored 2 points in being beaten by Adamstown in Intermediate A and concded the game in Junior B.
Ballyhogue by all accounts were lucky to only lose by 15 points in Intermediate football to Crossabeg/Ballymurn and apparently only picked up 3 or 4 of their 7 points in the last quarter when the game was over.
Whatever about the Vols Ballyhogue have had success underage in recent years so you would have thought it would start to pull through but seems to be some issues there." Was at the vols match, worst performance I ever seen from a team, that vols team would be hard set to win the junior b championship, don't have footballers but must be other factors too ie getting hammered and conceding a walk over, will be relegated unfortunately
Lockerroomboy (Wexford) - Posts: 437 - 07/10/2021 18:09:53
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