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Replying To Offtheball10: "Not actually the case though. He wasn't the worst player on the pitch at all. He was far from the best but he certainly wasn't the worst either.
Sensationalist stuff people write about him. If he isn't the best player by a country mile involved you get so many people spouting unsubstantiated rubbish that he is the worst player to ever play the game. Nonsense. Well done Tyrone, but supporters don't need to spout rubbish like Joe Brolly." The difference is that there was no replacement for o shea so they had to keep him on... Look at mattie donnelly. He started to tire and gave his all. Nice point in first half but tyrone management were fine with taking him off. Although to be fair Mcshane is a one off
conman1282 (Tyrone) - Posts: 88 - 13/09/2021 13:19:57
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Replying To Gleebo: "Look, the OP obviously isn't sincere here, this is just another thread to have a cut off of us. I can confirm that the "Mayo fans love losing" is horsesh*t of the highest grade, I don't know one Mayo supporter who isn't down in the dumps at the moment.
But largely, our famine boils down to two things: a lack of composure in front of the posts (something we badly missed Cillian O'Connor for) and a lack of tactical awareness at times.
Horan hasn't learned anything from previous defeats, or even previous games against Tyrone under his tenure. Everyone knew how they were likely to play, but there didn't seem to be any forward plan to stretch their defence. We ran the ball into blind alleys repeatedly and got turned over, which is the worst thing you can do against a Tyrone side.
We seem to have some strange aversion to playing a sweeper even though goals have been our major undoing in past finals.
The other thing is that even though Tyrone were by far the better side, we still could have probably forced a replay if the Loftus goal chance and penalty had been converted. But we missed all four goal chances, and you won't win doing that." Totally agree, almost a carbon copy of how Kerry set up against Tyrone. Tactically, not at the races at all.
Simply cannot afford to miss the type of chances that were created and expect to win against a class outfit like Tyrone. This has been the recurring theme of Mayo teams in AI finals for the last number of years, not just this year. I sincerely hope ye end the famine soon but honestly I'm passed feeling sorry as most of the damage is self inflicted.
Badly in need of a Pat Gilroy type character to knock a bit of teamwork and composure into them. Can't see Horan doing it.
moylagh (Meath) - Posts: 484 - 13/09/2021 13:24:13
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Replying To arock: "It must be very difficult coaching Mayo. Those big personalities dominate that team, maybe not in a positive way when its needed most. There is a collective mental attitude problem. But clearly if a player cannot be substituted the problem is also management and a lot deeper." Arock i'll say something right now that will more than lightly **** of a lot of my county but here goes. Give the managers job to Jim Gavin with all his baggage and skelatons and Mayo will win an All Ireland. The simple reason for this is that he won't take the County Board BS. Mayo's problem for as far back as i can remember and its a bit of a hike, has always being the meddeling County Board. Why do we think Liam McHale didn't get the job, he wouldn't put up with the rubbish. I thought that James Horan had turned a corner in the semifinal but in the weeks follownig something changed. Mayo have the footballers what Mayo don't have is the sideline a sideline capable of making the hard decisions.
Mayo need a manager that isn't a buddy of the players, a manager that wants to lift the Sam Maguire more than the players.
cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 454 - 13/09/2021 13:37:49
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Lads Mayo weren't good enough when the game was there to be won but can we stop with some of the nonsense. Firstly O Shea was far from the worst player on the pitch. It's not acceptable that he hasn't scored in these big games but anyone watching the last 15 minutes of the first half could see he was cleaning his man out in front. It was actually working. But for some reason they failed to get him into the game using those tactics in the second half. Does that mean he is blameless? Absolutely not. But he wasn't terrible. Walsh and Mcloughlin were worse to name 2. Loftus was worse.
Maybe Mayo will need to change something from a mental point of view. Maybe that is the case, the decision making was crazy yesterday when the game was there to be won. The Loftus miss was absolutely crazy. Conroy panicked for his chance as well. Mayo will be back and stronger again if COC can stay fit.
Lastly please stop embarrassing yourselves saying Joe Brolly was right. His analysis is pure lazy and it's also personal dating back to events in 2015 but that is never publicised. Brolly is a clown. Look up his tweets on Donal Og in relation to the Tom Humphries case and then compare his attitude towards Aidan O Shea. Brolly is wrong far more often than he is right and his fanboys on here and social media need to grow up. Mayo can be criticized for their performance, and players will accept that. Horan should be criticised too as he got some calls wrong when the heat was on but nobody deserves abuse. End of story.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7885 - 13/09/2021 13:41:20
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Replying To Galway9801: "Their forwards can't be that bad if they've reached 6 all Ireland finals and a further 3 semis in the last decade." Yeah, they're not that bad, but they're not that good either - in many games it has been Mayo's overall effort and their superb half-back lines that got them through. Unfortunately for Mayo, you're very unlikely to win an All-Ireland without a clinical forward.
Do you think they'd have lost the 2016 & 2017 finals if for example they had a Conn O'Callaghan, or if for example Bernard Brogan had got tired of sitting on the Dubs subs bench and transferred to Mayo ?
Bosco98 (Galway) - Posts: 127 - 13/09/2021 13:57:13
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Just dont know folks. It would be some party if they ever do manage it.
downtothecore (Down) - Posts: 349 - 13/09/2021 14:32:04
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Replying To Bosco98: "Yeah, they're not that bad, but they're not that good either - in many games it has been Mayo's overall effort and their superb half-back lines that got them through. Unfortunately for Mayo, you're very unlikely to win an All-Ireland without a clinical forward.
Do you think they'd have lost the 2016 & 2017 finals if for example they had a Conn O'Callaghan, or if for example Bernard Brogan had got tired of sitting on the Dubs subs bench and transferred to Mayo ?" The 16 and 17 finals were nothing to do with the Mayo forwards. in the drawn match Dublin needed 2 OG's to force a replay. They losses can be attributed to Hennelly and Vaughan making totally inexplicable mistakes. Also Rochford starting Hennelly in the 16 replay is as mad and crazy as it gets. Breaffy GAA and some of it's influential members had a big part to play in that decision some would say. Clarke hadn't put a foot wrong and offers a much more calming and assuring presence than Hennelly.
daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 13/09/2021 14:32:06
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Replying To TheFlaker: "Lads Mayo weren't good enough when the game was there to be won but can we stop with some of the nonsense. Firstly O Shea was far from the worst player on the pitch. It's not acceptable that he hasn't scored in these big games but anyone watching the last 15 minutes of the first half could see he was cleaning his man out in front. It was actually working. But for some reason they failed to get him into the game using those tactics in the second half. Does that mean he is blameless? Absolutely not. But he wasn't terrible. Walsh and Mcloughlin were worse to name 2. Loftus was worse.
Maybe Mayo will need to change something from a mental point of view. Maybe that is the case, the decision making was crazy yesterday when the game was there to be won. The Loftus miss was absolutely crazy. Conroy panicked for his chance as well. Mayo will be back and stronger again if COC can stay fit.
Lastly please stop embarrassing yourselves saying Joe Brolly was right. His analysis is pure lazy and it's also personal dating back to events in 2015 but that is never publicised. Brolly is a clown. Look up his tweets on Donal Og in relation to the Tom Humphries case and then compare his attitude towards Aidan O Shea. Brolly is wrong far more often than he is right and his fanboys on here and social media need to grow up. Mayo can be criticized for their performance, and players will accept that. Horan should be criticised too as he got some calls wrong when the heat was on but nobody deserves abuse. End of story." I fully agree about Joe Brolly, he is a muppet, always making sensational headline statements with no substance. Pat Spillane is another muppet who's views and analysis are outdated, he think quoting stats provided by RTE staff make him a modern analyst, but he fails to give an honest unbiased opinion that looks at all factors within a match, including cards, decisions, subs etc.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1106 - 13/09/2021 14:38:46
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Replying To baire: "If you look at the roll of honours in football, Galway are third after Kerry and Dublin respectfully! Geographically Kerry are on the south west coast so that theory of Daly's doesn't stand up. If you look at the successes in club hurling or club football, Galway clubs are amongst the most successful - a winning mentality is not an issue when teams are skilful and we'll prepared. Need I mention our fine ladies who won an All Ireland yesterday!" I don't think most people think of Kerry as west of Ireland, usually when people think of West of Ireland they usually mean (a) Connaught or (b) anything west of the Shannon,
I'm guessing Daly thought of Clare as west of Ireland as while not in Connaught Clare is west of the Shannon.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1337 - 13/09/2021 15:22:46
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Replying To TheFlaker: "Lads Mayo weren't good enough when the game was there to be won but can we stop with some of the nonsense. Firstly O Shea was far from the worst player on the pitch. It's not acceptable that he hasn't scored in these big games but anyone watching the last 15 minutes of the first half could see he was cleaning his man out in front. It was actually working. But for some reason they failed to get him into the game using those tactics in the second half. Does that mean he is blameless? Absolutely not. But he wasn't terrible. Walsh and Mcloughlin were worse to name 2. Loftus was worse.
Maybe Mayo will need to change something from a mental point of view. Maybe that is the case, the decision making was crazy yesterday when the game was there to be won. The Loftus miss was absolutely crazy. Conroy panicked for his chance as well. Mayo will be back and stronger again if COC can stay fit.
Lastly please stop embarrassing yourselves saying Joe Brolly was right. His analysis is pure lazy and it's also personal dating back to events in 2015 but that is never publicised. Brolly is a clown. Look up his tweets on Donal Og in relation to the Tom Humphries case and then compare his attitude towards Aidan O Shea. Brolly is wrong far more often than he is right and his fanboys on here and social media need to grow up. Mayo can be criticized for their performance, and players will accept that. Horan should be criticised too as he got some calls wrong when the heat was on but nobody deserves abuse. End of story." I'm no fan of Brolly but 2 things can be correct. Brolly is a clown on most things but he was 100% right in his column.
cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 454 - 13/09/2021 15:30:51
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- From my reckoning since 2012 final they have played 7 finals (including 2016 replay) and conceded 12 goals and scored 3. If they had scored a few more and conceded a few less they would have won a few all irelands. So work on that.
- Killian O'connor is the leading scorer in championship football ever and was missing this year. Was it realistic to expect them to win the all ireland this year without him.
- Mayo got relegated last year and although they bounced back great this year it was still division 2 they played in and it makes a difference.
- This team is just not as good as the 2016/2017 vintage. I would have fancied that team against tyrone.
- I do think Mayo management has struggled with what to do with aidan o'shea but maybe even more so in 16 and 17. Don't think playing him differently in the final this year was going to affect the result. Though maybe it would have in other finals. In his pomp he added real physicality and helped control the tempo of the game. He's a big man and woukd imagine he just gets tired so sub him with 15 mins to go.
- I like listening to the paddy and Andy podcast and Andy moran is very likeable though I find it strange they he reckons the 2012 final is the one that got away. They lost that match by 4 points and never really looked like winning it. They lost 13, 16 and 17 by a combined total of 3 points and with a replay stuck in there and still 2012 is the one that got away. Did they really believe they could beat Dublin in them years? They should have managed to get over the line in one of them games.
Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 687 - 13/09/2021 15:37:06
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Replying To Commodore: "I fully agree about Joe Brolly, he is a muppet, always making sensational headline statements with no substance. Pat Spillane is another muppet who's views and analysis are outdated, he think quoting stats provided by RTE staff make him a modern analyst, but he fails to give an honest unbiased opinion that looks at all factors within a match, including cards, decisions, subs etc." I don't mind pat that much but I agree about the stats. He doesn't half enjoy spewing out figures.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1697 - 13/09/2021 15:46:57
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: " Replying To WanPintWin: "[quote=Cockney_Cat: ""Obviously Mayo have GREAT footballers or they couldn't get to the All Ireland on such a consistent basis but for one reason or another they come up short."
Just like the Galway hurlers?" Not just like the Galway hurlers, thankfully. It might have escaped you that we won the All-Ireland 4 years ago. We have a terrible record in finals, but at least I have very fresh memories of getting the job done. Your own county's current 'drought' is longer than ours."
In the last 30 years. Kilkenny have won 13 AI, and lost 7. Some 'drought'."]You'd want to look up the definition of drought there Cat. Your drought is 3 years longer than ours regardless of history and we beat you in every grade we played you in championship this year. I know nothing irks you more than being beaten by a Connacht team in Leinster but it's about time you learned to suck it up. Thanks be to God we also have the great ladies who took your Camogie crown back again this year.
Mailman98 (Galway) - Posts: 318 - 13/09/2021 15:48:48
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Replying To TheFlaker: "Lads Mayo weren't good enough when the game was there to be won but can we stop with some of the nonsense. Firstly O Shea was far from the worst player on the pitch. It's not acceptable that he hasn't scored in these big games but anyone watching the last 15 minutes of the first half could see he was cleaning his man out in front. It was actually working. But for some reason they failed to get him into the game using those tactics in the second half. Does that mean he is blameless? Absolutely not. But he wasn't terrible. Walsh and Mcloughlin were worse to name 2. Loftus was worse.
Maybe Mayo will need to change something from a mental point of view. Maybe that is the case, the decision making was crazy yesterday when the game was there to be won. The Loftus miss was absolutely crazy. Conroy panicked for his chance as well. Mayo will be back and stronger again if COC can stay fit.
Lastly please stop embarrassing yourselves saying Joe Brolly was right. His analysis is pure lazy and it's also personal dating back to events in 2015 but that is never publicised. Brolly is a clown. Look up his tweets on Donal Og in relation to the Tom Humphries case and then compare his attitude towards Aidan O Shea. Brolly is wrong far more often than he is right and his fanboys on here and social media need to grow up. Mayo can be criticized for their performance, and players will accept that. Horan should be criticised too as he got some calls wrong when the heat was on but nobody deserves abuse. End of story." 3 reasons. Tyrone are actually much better than most of the country believed. They improved a lot under the new management. Only pure old style football played by very naturally talented players who can kick pass accurately under pressure can trouble them.
Mayo's new stars are good but not the world beaters they have been hyped up to be by the media.
Beating Dublin would have caused a release of energy that it seems could not be recaptured for the final. Perhaps if they were facing Kerry they would have arrived in a better place mentally. While the hype around mayo teams in the run up to finals is always there and out of control of players and manager, this year it was 10 times more intense than ever before. It is driven mainly by supporters who's expectations are not based of football reality in terms of form etc. I think it made its way Into the heads of several players as it can do in any sport in any county. It happened in Munster last year to Kerry. It will interesting to see how we do next year via the super 8 route.
giveitlong (Galway) - Posts: 1217 - 13/09/2021 15:52:42
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Replying To Bosco98: "Yeah, they're not that bad, but they're not that good either - in many games it has been Mayo's overall effort and their superb half-back lines that got them through. Unfortunately for Mayo, you're very unlikely to win an All-Ireland without a clinical forward.
Do you think they'd have lost the 2016 & 2017 finals if for example they had a Conn O'Callaghan, or if for example Bernard Brogan had got tired of sitting on the Dubs subs bench and transferred to Mayo ?" In 2017 andy moran won player of the year and O'connor set the single season scoring record. And daugherty had a good season forwards weren't the problem.
Sssthe (Mayo) - Posts: 57 - 13/09/2021 15:56:44
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Replying To moylagh: "Totally agree, almost a carbon copy of how Kerry set up against Tyrone. Tactically, not at the races at all.
Simply cannot afford to miss the type of chances that were created and expect to win against a class outfit like Tyrone. This has been the recurring theme of Mayo teams in AI finals for the last number of years, not just this year. I sincerely hope ye end the famine soon but honestly I'm passed feeling sorry as most of the damage is self inflicted.
Badly in need of a Pat Gilroy type character to knock a bit of teamwork and composure into them. Can't see Horan doing it." Tactically mayo got it right. They created more chances and better chances. They just missed them.
Sssthe (Mayo) - Posts: 57 - 13/09/2021 15:59:03
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Replying To Sssthe: "Tactically mayo got it right. They created more chances and better chances. They just missed them." I'd probably agree with this tbh. Wasnt like they were obviously much better or anything, but if a few go in and we had Clarke in goal instead of Hennelly it's suddenly a different ball game and people are talking about a professional Mayo performance. But we didnt put them away and Hennelly was his usual undominant self under the high ball and we lost as per. We can only blame ourselves unfortunately.
jonjon (Mayo) - Posts: 99 - 13/09/2021 16:21:28
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Replying To moylagh: "Totally agree, almost a carbon copy of how Kerry set up against Tyrone. Tactically, not at the races at all.
Simply cannot afford to miss the type of chances that were created and expect to win against a class outfit like Tyrone. This has been the recurring theme of Mayo teams in AI finals for the last number of years, not just this year. I sincerely hope ye end the famine soon but honestly I'm passed feeling sorry as most of the damage is self inflicted.
Badly in need of a Pat Gilroy type character to knock a bit of teamwork and composure into them. Can't see Horan doing it." I think if someone like Gilroy went in there he'd do to a few of them what he did with Fennell and Ross McConnell in 2012...thanks for your service lads and good luck but we're moving in a different direction now. Might seem like a wild suggestion but would it be worth getting rid of O'Shea, Hennelly, McLoughlin and maybe on or two more? Might seem like a nuclear solution but maybe a clearing of the decks and moving forward with almost an entirely new squad from a couple of years ago is what's needed. I'd nearly include Horan in that too tbh. Has done very well to get to 2 of 3 finals in his second term but ultimately 2nd isn't good enough. Do Mayo fans trust him to figure out some new solution next year or would they rather someone entirely new in there with new ideas, new players and just a fresh outlook going forward? Again this might seem nuclear but can't see things changing too much under the status quo.
TrueBlue35 (Dublin) - Posts: 206 - 13/09/2021 16:21:37
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Replying To Ulsterchamps_32: "- From my reckoning since 2012 final they have played 7 finals (including 2016 replay) and conceded 12 goals and scored 3. If they had scored a few more and conceded a few less they would have won a few all irelands. So work on that.
- Killian O'connor is the leading scorer in championship football ever and was missing this year. Was it realistic to expect them to win the all ireland this year without him.
- Mayo got relegated last year and although they bounced back great this year it was still division 2 they played in and it makes a difference.
- This team is just not as good as the 2016/2017 vintage. I would have fancied that team against tyrone.
- I do think Mayo management has struggled with what to do with aidan o'shea but maybe even more so in 16 and 17. Don't think playing him differently in the final this year was going to affect the result. Though maybe it would have in other finals. In his pomp he added real physicality and helped control the tempo of the game. He's a big man and woukd imagine he just gets tired so sub him with 15 mins to go.
- I like listening to the paddy and Andy podcast and Andy moran is very likeable though I find it strange they he reckons the 2012 final is the one that got away. They lost that match by 4 points and never really looked like winning it. They lost 13, 16 and 17 by a combined total of 3 points and with a replay stuck in there and still 2012 is the one that got away. Did they really believe they could beat Dublin in them years? They should have managed to get over the line in one of them games." I think I previously heard James Horan say something similar about 2012 too, which was strange, as they were actually as well beaten on that day as they were last Saturday. Donegal took their foot off the gas a little after they opened up a huge lead, and allowed Mayo back into it and it was a fairly dull affair until the end, but Mayo got their match-ups wrong early on and Donegal punished them.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1106 - 13/09/2021 16:27:42
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I agree with a some of the recent comments on this topic. The criticism O'Shea is getting is now ridiculous. He did well at times on Saturday. He wasn't flashy but he was so big he got ball so caused problems.
GAA players provide us with great entertainment and don't get that much out of the game. The tone of some comments on here are out of line in that these players don't owe us anything and we don't have a right to demand this or that off them. O'Shea doesn't deserve to be the scapegoat because Brolly wants to cause a stir so he can make money from an article.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1337 - 13/09/2021 16:32:15
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