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Why Mayo Cant Win An All-Ireland

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Replying To Galway9801:  "I think that they've lost so many finals at this stage too that the hurt just isn't there any more. 2017 was the nadir, I think their hearts were truly broken that day and since then they've come to resemble a thirty something singleton, happy to plod along and take whatever comes their way,not really too bothered one way or the other.
They performed brilliantly against a half empty Dublin side in the semi but apart from the first 90 seconds yesterday they never looked like a team who were going to win,who believed they'd win, or who were desperate to win, the outrageous decision to leave o Shea on for the whole 70 despite yet again playing atrociously being a microcosm of their entire effort.

And the sad part is they'll still probably get a bigger homecoming than Tyrone."
not an Aidan O'Shea detractor at all, but how in the name of God he was left on for the entire 70 minutes was a mystery, rumour has it he and Seamus used to have influence on the team picked etc...not sure if that was or is the case, but he didnt do much for 60 mins the other day, infairness the last 10 he seemed to throw off the shackles and get stuck in abit...be it too late. To be fair, he did go in to edge of the square signalling for the high ball be sent in and that high ball never went in, even once. Tactics are one thing but you have to deviate and try something a bit different off the cuff if your loosing. For a senior player who had the ball in under his arm when the penalty was being awarded, allowing the young rookie take the ball from him and then go on to miss the penalty summed up O'Shea for me on Saturady, I know teams have kickers and all that but like above, things are serious and lets try and do something abit of the menu..yes if he missed we would be all on saying why did they allow AOS take the penalty I know...theres a time to stick to your game plan and a time when you need someone to brake rank, Mayo dont have that player..I think even if that penalty was scored Mayon would still not have won...Tyrone wanted that All Ireland more than Mayo which is a strange thing to say...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 866 - 13/09/2021 11:14:44    2380204

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Replying To gilly1910:  "I actually couldn't agree more with your assertion, as I used to do and still do to a point think that losing comes too easily to the likes of the Mayo footballers and the Galway hurlers. I used to despise this mentality that "sure there is always next year" or "we didn't play like we could" excuses after yet another All Ireland defeat, great teams win the big matches, and thrive on the opportunities been put before them. I remember Anthony Daly speaking a few years ago about a west of Ireland culture that just didn't have that winning mentality , and when you look at the All Ireland Final record of both Galway and Mayo, there is definitely something not right. Obviously this thread is about Mayo and their latest car crash in an All Ireland Final, but there is a definite weakness in West of Ireland teams, glad to be there, best supporters in the world, and when the inevitable defeat comes, the usual myriad of excuses will be dragged out, and we'll be back again next year. Next year rarely if ever happens unless you're Dublin or Kilkenny (or Limerick these days), but following on from this latest final collapse, it is actually impossible to see Mayo winning the All Ireland."
If you look at the roll of honours in football, Galway are third after Kerry and Dublin respectfully! Geographically Kerry are on the south west coast so that theory of Daly's doesn't stand up. If you look at the successes in club hurling or club football, Galway clubs are amongst the most successful - a winning mentality is not an issue when teams are skilful and we'll prepared. Need I mention our fine ladies who won an All Ireland yesterday!

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1079 - 13/09/2021 11:28:16    2380205

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Maybe the question should be "What do Mayo need to do to win an All-Ireland?". To understand the answer to that, you need to know a hell of a lot about Mayo GAA!

One things for sure - it takes significant courage to keep coming back time and time again..

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1197 - 13/09/2021 11:31:01    2380207

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "not an Aidan O'Shea detractor at all, but how in the name of God he was left on for the entire 70 minutes was a mystery, rumour has it he and Seamus used to have influence on the team picked etc...not sure if that was or is the case, but he didnt do much for 60 mins the other day, infairness the last 10 he seemed to throw off the shackles and get stuck in abit...be it too late. To be fair, he did go in to edge of the square signalling for the high ball be sent in and that high ball never went in, even once. Tactics are one thing but you have to deviate and try something a bit different off the cuff if your loosing. For a senior player who had the ball in under his arm when the penalty was being awarded, allowing the young rookie take the ball from him and then go on to miss the penalty summed up O'Shea for me on Saturady, I know teams have kickers and all that but like above, things are serious and lets try and do something abit of the menu..yes if he missed we would be all on saying why did they allow AOS take the penalty I know...theres a time to stick to your game plan and a time when you need someone to brake rank, Mayo dont have that player..I think even if that penalty was scored Mayon would still not have won...Tyrone wanted that All Ireland more than Mayo which is a strange thing to say..."
You have to feel for Mayo but even the sympathy is getting less & less still a great bunch of young Footballers maybe break the Bank to get Jim Gavin down for 2 years or some very good outside Manager.

If ONLY they won 1they could open the flood gates

Dublin & Kerry & Tyrone Possibly Donegal all will be a tall order again next year

clooney (Clare) - Posts: 648 - 13/09/2021 11:31:24    2380208

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Replying To tom84:  "Don't have the forwards."
Exactly. All this other stuff about personalities etc. is nonsense. When the pressure is greatest that's when your skillset is most tested. They're missing a couple of very clinical forwards. Tyrone players were simply better footballers in terms of skillset.

HighKings (Meath) - Posts: 271 - 13/09/2021 11:37:19    2380211

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "not an Aidan O'Shea detractor at all, but how in the name of God he was left on for the entire 70 minutes was a mystery, rumour has it he and Seamus used to have influence on the team picked etc...not sure if that was or is the case, but he didnt do much for 60 mins the other day, infairness the last 10 he seemed to throw off the shackles and get stuck in abit...be it too late. To be fair, he did go in to edge of the square signalling for the high ball be sent in and that high ball never went in, even once. Tactics are one thing but you have to deviate and try something a bit different off the cuff if your loosing. For a senior player who had the ball in under his arm when the penalty was being awarded, allowing the young rookie take the ball from him and then go on to miss the penalty summed up O'Shea for me on Saturady, I know teams have kickers and all that but like above, things are serious and lets try and do something abit of the menu..yes if he missed we would be all on saying why did they allow AOS take the penalty I know...theres a time to stick to your game plan and a time when you need someone to brake rank, Mayo dont have that player..I think even if that penalty was scored Mayon would still not have won...Tyrone wanted that All Ireland more than Mayo which is a strange thing to say..."
Why the obsession with one player, it's a team sport! Tyrone got three goal chances and scored two, Mayo got three goal chances too, one of them a penalty, but they failed to score any of them. That's why they lost.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1079 - 13/09/2021 11:37:26    2380212

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "I think if you know any Mayo people praising this or other Mayo teams for being gallant losers, as you say, then they're not genuine Mayo gaelic football supporters with the best long term interest of Mayo gaelic football at heart. They're bandwagoners on Facebook. Or the other extreme is to the long list of post All Ireland scapegoats including 'bad luck'. I definitely think for some that being critical of the team is like criticising a family member, it's a county pride thing. But there are ways to criticise constructively without embarrasing or demeaning anyone. Not trying to change, at least, is just going backwards when other counties move on and improve.

After losing a third All Ireland in 8 years in 1997 the question to be asked was why are we good enough to get to finals but not win them? 24 years later we can't honestly say that question has been answered and how to find ways and means of us getting our senior footballers over the line. Most of our player and our sideline played like a team that were happy to be in the final yesterday. Tyrone went to Croke Park to win an All Ireland believing they would win and congratulations to them. We have some some good footballers and coaches. We need to discover why it is that some players and staff lack self-belief on the biggest day before we can try and do something about it. Make some people accountable for finding why it happens time and again and go and put a plan in place to fix it."
I think it's quite simple - Mayo don't have the Top Class forwards required to win All-Irelands. Look at Aidan O'Shea when he got one-on-one in the first half, all he had to do was turn inside, a man of his size would have broken through the tackle or else his opponent would have had to take him down.
If a Dublin/Kerry/Tyrone forward had broken clear like Tommy Conroy early in the 2nd half, they would have scored, or at least worked the goalie.

Bosco98 (Galway) - Posts: 123 - 13/09/2021 11:39:38    2380214

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "not an Aidan O'Shea detractor at all, but how in the name of God he was left on for the entire 70 minutes was a mystery, rumour has it he and Seamus used to have influence on the team picked etc...not sure if that was or is the case, but he didnt do much for 60 mins the other day, infairness the last 10 he seemed to throw off the shackles and get stuck in abit...be it too late. To be fair, he did go in to edge of the square signalling for the high ball be sent in and that high ball never went in, even once. Tactics are one thing but you have to deviate and try something a bit different off the cuff if your loosing. For a senior player who had the ball in under his arm when the penalty was being awarded, allowing the young rookie take the ball from him and then go on to miss the penalty summed up O'Shea for me on Saturady, I know teams have kickers and all that but like above, things are serious and lets try and do something abit of the menu..yes if he missed we would be all on saying why did they allow AOS take the penalty I know...theres a time to stick to your game plan and a time when you need someone to brake rank, Mayo dont have that player..I think even if that penalty was scored Mayon would still not have won...Tyrone wanted that All Ireland more than Mayo which is a strange thing to say..."
How can Mayo expect to win when they have a passenger for a Captain? worst player on the pitch.

Rolo99 (Tyrone) - Posts: 19 - 13/09/2021 11:40:34    2380215

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Ah yes I hear that players are deeply affected by whatever golf classics are going on in the background. That might be it surely."
Rem the celebrity losers comment by Brolly? he was spot on.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1766 - 13/09/2021 12:01:56    2380225

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Replying To gilly1910:  "I actually couldn't agree more with your assertion, as I used to do and still do to a point think that losing comes too easily to the likes of the Mayo footballers and the Galway hurlers. I used to despise this mentality that "sure there is always next year" or "we didn't play like we could" excuses after yet another All Ireland defeat, great teams win the big matches, and thrive on the opportunities been put before them. I remember Anthony Daly speaking a few years ago about a west of Ireland culture that just didn't have that winning mentality , and when you look at the All Ireland Final record of both Galway and Mayo, there is definitely something not right. Obviously this thread is about Mayo and their latest car crash in an All Ireland Final, but there is a definite weakness in West of Ireland teams, glad to be there, best supporters in the world, and when the inevitable defeat comes, the usual myriad of excuses will be dragged out, and we'll be back again next year. Next year rarely if ever happens unless you're Dublin or Kilkenny (or Limerick these days), but following on from this latest final collapse, it is actually impossible to see Mayo winning the All Ireland."
I agree with your post although I thought those days had passed.

I don't live in the West anymore but growing up there was a sense that thigs were better "up the country". And in football terms the Connacht final was effectively the AI in the 70's, 80's and into the 90's. If we didn't win Connacht we wished the other team wall and you came to Croke Park in the hope you didn't embarrass yourselves.

It's like a certain inferiority complex. I recall John O Mahony talking about this in the 90's when he led Leitrim over the line to winning Connacht.

Or maybe it's me... maybe the universe is conspiring to screw me over.. my 2 teams, Mayo football and Galway hurlers have the worst records in finals... maybe this is the universes way of kicking me in the sack over and over! That's how if feels today anyway

What I won't tolerate from Mayo people is crying and blaming everyone else other than ourselves. '96 it was like we expected Meath to had the trophy to back us because we didn't like the result

Cbar (Mayo) - Posts: 208 - 13/09/2021 12:08:16    2380229

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "not an Aidan O'Shea detractor at all, but how in the name of God he was left on for the entire 70 minutes was a mystery, rumour has it he and Seamus used to have influence on the team picked etc...not sure if that was or is the case, but he didnt do much for 60 mins the other day, infairness the last 10 he seemed to throw off the shackles and get stuck in abit...be it too late. To be fair, he did go in to edge of the square signalling for the high ball be sent in and that high ball never went in, even once. Tactics are one thing but you have to deviate and try something a bit different off the cuff if your loosing. For a senior player who had the ball in under his arm when the penalty was being awarded, allowing the young rookie take the ball from him and then go on to miss the penalty summed up O'Shea for me on Saturady, I know teams have kickers and all that but like above, things are serious and lets try and do something abit of the menu..yes if he missed we would be all on saying why did they allow AOS take the penalty I know...theres a time to stick to your game plan and a time when you need someone to brake rank, Mayo dont have that player..I think even if that penalty was scored Mayon would still not have won...Tyrone wanted that All Ireland more than Mayo which is a strange thing to say..."
Aidan O'Shea is a very good football player. The problem is Mayo use him to plug the gap in the team where they fell weakest. This year it was in the forward line; in other years it was in mid-field. For me Mayo need to decide now where he's playing next year and get coaching to bring the best out of him in that position - then you'll see the best of him.

Mayo didn't lose because Aidan O'Shea only played ok (6 or 7 / 10) instead of out of his skin (9/10). Mayo lost because they made it way to easy for Tyrone to score on Saturday. Their backs weren't good enough and their sideline played into Tyrone's strengths which allowed Tyrone to look more clinical.

Mayo generally haven't been favorites going into the final. They were this year and they should have won.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 86 - 13/09/2021 12:10:50    2380230

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Very interesting thread to catch up on I have to say. It must be painful for a Mayo fan this week to be even dealing with another final defeat. Sport can be cruel but you have to turn up on the day and go and win it by hook or by crook. I think it was Alan Brogan said after the final in 2011 that it was a huge relief after years of self doubt to know they were actually able to win a final. Obviously what transpired over the subsequent years was unreal but to get the monkey off the back in 2011 and know in your gut that when the chips are down in the last minute or two of a big game that you and your team have been there and eked out a win before must add such confidence to your whole set up. Conversely not having done it in Mayo's case on such a continual basis must just be adding layer upon layer upon layer of self doubt in so many of those players. Even the ones that haven't been in a final before are surely affected as having been fans going to Croke Park on the big day and witnessing what such losses does to a county after everyone being whipped up into a frenzy beforehand.

TrueBlue35 (Dublin) - Posts: 181 - 13/09/2021 12:19:28    2380233

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Look, the OP obviously isn't sincere here, this is just another thread to have a cut off of us. I can confirm that the "Mayo fans love losing" is horsesh*t of the highest grade, I don't know one Mayo supporter who isn't down in the dumps at the moment.

But largely, our famine boils down to two things: a lack of composure in front of the posts (something we badly missed Cillian O'Connor for) and a lack of tactical awareness at times.

Horan hasn't learned anything from previous defeats, or even previous games against Tyrone under his tenure. Everyone knew how they were likely to play, but there didn't seem to be any forward plan to stretch their defence. We ran the ball into blind alleys repeatedly and got turned over, which is the worst thing you can do against a Tyrone side.

We seem to have some strange aversion to playing a sweeper even though goals have been our major undoing in past finals.

The other thing is that even though Tyrone were by far the better side, we still could have probably forced a replay if the Loftus goal chance and penalty had been converted. But we missed all four goal chances, and you won't win doing that.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 1973 - 13/09/2021 12:20:30    2380234

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Replying To jonjon:  "Haha what a load of lazy nonsense. They all enjoy losing AI finals. What an utterly ridiculous comment. Captain Aido stands in the middle of the huddle at the second water break; "Alright lads I want to see some loose marking out here now, Loftus, I want to you to balloon a few shots high and wide. Come on now boys, we know how hard we've worked for this all year, we know how much we love losing finals. Let's go out there and make sure they outscore us and outfight us in the final quarter. LETS GO!"

Alright grand thanks now we've gotten to the bottom of it. What a waste of time of a post."
Do you know how many All Ireland hurling titles Kilkenny have won in the past 30 years? Apparently its somehow relevant to this topic !!
By the way hard luck Mayo. Keep fighting the good fight

Maroonatic (Galway) - Posts: 1037 - 13/09/2021 12:24:44    2380238

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The Curse caused:
The Finnerty miss into an open goal 1989
The Ball that hopped over the bar
The fight resulting in our best player being sent off without justification
The McDonald penalty miss
2004 and 2006 beaten fair and square by much better team (no curse intervention required)
The Game being moved to Limerick
The soft frees to Kerry in Limerick
Connolly Red Card quashed
The Clash of heads AOS and Cillian
The 2 Own Goals
The penalty not given, the penalty missed 2021

martinjoe (Mayo) - Posts: 450 - 13/09/2021 12:27:47    2380241

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Replying To Bosco98:  "I think it's quite simple - Mayo don't have the Top Class forwards required to win All-Irelands. Look at Aidan O'Shea when he got one-on-one in the first half, all he had to do was turn inside, a man of his size would have broken through the tackle or else his opponent would have had to take him down.
If a Dublin/Kerry/Tyrone forward had broken clear like Tommy Conroy early in the 2nd half, they would have scored, or at least worked the goalie."
Their forwards can't be that bad if they've reached 6 all Ireland finals and a further 3 semis in the last decade.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 936 - 13/09/2021 12:34:18    2380245

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The reason Mayo haven't won an AI in 70 years is quite simple. For most of those years, Mayo didn't get to the final. For the finals Mayo got to, they scored less than their opponents. When you score less than your opponents, you lose the game.

There's no point in over analyzing or adopting a psychological profiling of Mayo. They were not good enough on Saturday. Tyrone were. I'd love to see the day that Mayo are good enough on the day, and on that day, Mayo will score more than their opponents, and win the game.

Gaelic football is a simple amateur game. Keep it that way folks, and don't start believing that any one of you is Joe Brolly. He gets paid to write about amateur sportsmen. He has to have people reading his articles. That's why they're extreme and controversial.

None of you on here get paid for what you post. So, keep it simple. Because it is simple.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 692 - 13/09/2021 12:39:52    2380248

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Replying To Ban:  "Maybe the question should be "What do Mayo need to do to win an All-Ireland?". To understand the answer to that, you need to know a hell of a lot about Mayo GAA!

One things for sure - it takes significant courage to keep coming back time and time again.."
I think Mayo coming back repeatedly has been part of the problem, these sustained campaigns which end in failure since 2011 have been mentally absorbing and draining. The other top sides have all won All Ireland titles in the last 20 years, so while many of them also face campaigns that eventually might end in failure, at least they've tasted the prize at the end of the road.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 672 - 13/09/2021 12:40:29    2380249

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They probably would have beaten Kerry

Dublinculchie1 (Limerick) - Posts: 118 - 13/09/2021 12:47:22    2380252

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Replying To Rolo99:  "How can Mayo expect to win when they have a passenger for a Captain? worst player on the pitch."
Not actually the case though. He wasn't the worst player on the pitch at all. He was far from the best but he certainly wasn't the worst either.
Sensationalist stuff people write about him. If he isn't the best player by a country mile involved you get so many people spouting unsubstantiated rubbish that he is the worst player to ever play the game. Nonsense. Well done Tyrone, but supporters don't need to spout rubbish like Joe Brolly.

Offtheball10 (Meath) - Posts: 47 - 13/09/2021 12:50:34    2380253

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