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Why Mayo Cant Win An All-Ireland

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Replying To border Gael:  "I meant to add to my post that I would not run down Mayo Players as being useless.
On Saturday they met a well prepared Tyrone team who would have beaten any team put in front of them.
Tyrone stopped them playing their game plan.
Tyrone were a much better prepared and fitter team."
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The better team won on the day but to say that "... Tyrone team who would have beaten any team put in front of them" is as far from the truth as its possible to get. Even with their flat performance that particular Mayo team (who are hardly world beaters) would have beaten them easily IF they had taken the majority of their chances.
If Monaghan (or Mayo or whoever) go into a second half leading by two points and fail to score a point till the hour mark while kicking several bad wides they are USUALLY coming home without the cup & probably on the end of a bad beating.
Tyrone won a handy All Ireland - Mayo left a handier one behind.

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 225 - 16/09/2021 14:46:34    2381102

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Replying To timmyhogan:  ".

The better team won on the day but to say that "... Tyrone team who would have beaten any team put in front of them" is as far from the truth as its possible to get. Even with their flat performance that particular Mayo team (who are hardly world beaters) would have beaten them easily IF they had taken the majority of their chances.
If Monaghan (or Mayo or whoever) go into a second half leading by two points and fail to score a point till the hour mark while kicking several bad wides they are USUALLY coming home without the cup & probably on the end of a bad beating.
Tyrone won a handy All Ireland - Mayo left a handier one behind."
Sure most teams that lose finals could say they would have won if they took their chances. The difference between winning and losing on the biggest day is the ability to score under the pressure of a final. The converted Tyrone chances were scored without much pressure on the shooter because they had freed themselves up for the opportunity. A lot of our chances missed was because there was pressure on the player shooting or the pressure of the big occasion played a part. Kerry looked red-hot favourites when they destroyed Tyrone in the league in a game that didn't count for anything, looked like they couldn't miss. Roll on to the semi final and Tyrone pressure and the bigger game, possibly some complacency too, and those chances taken became slimmer pickings.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 6284 - 16/09/2021 15:29:23    2381115

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Replying To timmyhogan:  ".

The better team won on the day but to say that "... Tyrone team who would have beaten any team put in front of them" is as far from the truth as its possible to get. Even with their flat performance that particular Mayo team (who are hardly world beaters) would have beaten them easily IF they had taken the majority of their chances.
If Monaghan (or Mayo or whoever) go into a second half leading by two points and fail to score a point till the hour mark while kicking several bad wides they are USUALLY coming home without the cup & probably on the end of a bad beating.
Tyrone won a handy All Ireland - Mayo left a handier one behind."
ill have what your smoking, handy all ireland my ass

Beat Cavan (Ulster Champs)
Beat Donegal (previous Ulster Champs)
Beat Monaghan (AI semis 2018)
Beat Kerry (Munster Champs)
Beat Mayo ( Connacht Champs)

And by the way in the second half they scored 2 goals before they scored a point, what's your point here. Goals win matches.

Tyrone are technically a better football team with an unreal work ethic... Bu noone who gets beat by them realise (well supporters anyway) that and they always say they missed chances... Why do they miss chances?? pressure, being put into situations where they have to perform under intense pressure, or they are exhausted from being pulled round the field.

conman1282 (Tyrone) - Posts: 86 - 16/09/2021 15:30:10    2381116

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You missed the point there by quite a margin - much more so some of Mayo's attempts on Saturday. And indeed Tyrone's in the second half - that probably slightly unfair on Tyrone given the wind swirling at the hill end but a wides a wide
Handy All Ireland refers to the final so not much point listing their previous games or indeed denying the obvious with the rest of your argument.
Perhaps you also believe that with that performance that Tyrone .... would have beaten any team put in front of them. Whether or which be happy & grateful, you wont win a handier one - neither will Mayo have a better chance.

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 225 - 16/09/2021 16:15:02    2381131

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "
Replying To timmyhogan:  ".

The better team won on the day but to say that "... Tyrone team who would have beaten any team put in front of them" is as far from the truth as its possible to get. Even with their flat performance that particular Mayo team (who are hardly world beaters) would have beaten them easily IF they had taken the majority of their chances.
If Monaghan (or Mayo or whoever) go into a second half leading by two points and fail to score a point till the hour mark while kicking several bad wides they are USUALLY coming home without the cup & probably on the end of a bad beating.
Tyrone won a handy All Ireland - Mayo left a handier one behind."
Sure most teams that lose finals could say they would have won if they took their chances. The difference between winning and losing on the biggest day is the ability to score under the pressure of a final. The converted Tyrone chances were scored without much pressure on the shooter because they had freed themselves up for the opportunity. A lot of our chances missed was because there was pressure on the player shooting or the pressure of the big occasion played a part. Kerry looked red-hot favourites when they destroyed Tyrone in the league in a game that didn't count for anything, looked like they couldn't miss. Roll on to the semi final and Tyrone pressure and the bigger game, possibly some complacency too, and those chances taken became slimmer pickings."
.

Honestly g&r I think you are in denial. That shooting performance by Mayo wouldn't beat Roscommon in a Connacht semi never mind an AIF as we saw two years ago. Scores win games, while it must be said the opposition goalie making his usual gift of a goal in an AIF helps also - that probably finished Mayo on Sat.

Whatever about the pressure of an AIF which always exists had Mayo left the guts of 4-6 behind before RH's howler in 2016 replay for example. I think not.

I know most posters here don't understand bookmaking beyond 'you never see a poor bookie' but the fact that Kerry & Dublin are around 6/4 for 2022 and Mayo/Tyrone are circa 9/1 should be a clue as to how good a chance this year's final was for both teams. Those prices were easily predictable on Friday BTW.

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 225 - 16/09/2021 16:51:43    2381141

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Replying To timmyhogan:  "
Replying To GreenandRed:  "[quote=timmyhogan:  ".

The better team won on the day but to say that "... Tyrone team who would have beaten any team put in front of them" is as far from the truth as its possible to get. Even with their flat performance that particular Mayo team (who are hardly world beaters) would have beaten them easily IF they had taken the majority of their chances.
If Monaghan (or Mayo or whoever) go into a second half leading by two points and fail to score a point till the hour mark while kicking several bad wides they are USUALLY coming home without the cup & probably on the end of a bad beating.
Tyrone won a handy All Ireland - Mayo left a handier one behind."
Sure most teams that lose finals could say they would have won if they took their chances. The difference between winning and losing on the biggest day is the ability to score under the pressure of a final. The converted Tyrone chances were scored without much pressure on the shooter because they had freed themselves up for the opportunity. A lot of our chances missed was because there was pressure on the player shooting or the pressure of the big occasion played a part. Kerry looked red-hot favourites when they destroyed Tyrone in the league in a game that didn't count for anything, looked like they couldn't miss. Roll on to the semi final and Tyrone pressure and the bigger game, possibly some complacency too, and those chances taken became slimmer pickings."
.

Honestly g&r I think you are in denial. That shooting performance by Mayo wouldn't beat Roscommon in a Connacht semi never mind an AIF as we saw two years ago. Scores win games, while it must be said the opposition goalie making his usual gift of a goal in an AIF helps also - that probably finished Mayo on Sat.

Whatever about the pressure of an AIF which always exists had Mayo left the guts of 4-6 behind before RH's howler in 2016 replay for example. I think not.

I know most posters here don't understand bookmaking beyond 'you never see a poor bookie' but the fact that Kerry & Dublin are around 6/4 for 2022 and Mayo/Tyrone are circa 9/1 should be a clue as to how good a chance this year's final was for both teams. Those prices were easily predictable on Friday BTW."]One of us is in denial.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 6284 - 16/09/2021 17:13:12    2381147

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "
Replying To timmyhogan:  "[quote=GreenandRed:  "[quote=timmyhogan:  ".

The better team won on the day but to say that "... Tyrone team who would have beaten any team put in front of them" is as far from the truth as its possible to get. Even with their flat performance that particular Mayo team (who are hardly world beaters) would have beaten them easily IF they had taken the majority of their chances.
If Monaghan (or Mayo or whoever) go into a second half leading by two points and fail to score a point till the hour mark while kicking several bad wides they are USUALLY coming home without the cup & probably on the end of a bad beating.
Tyrone won a handy All Ireland - Mayo left a handier one behind."
Sure most teams that lose finals could say they would have won if they took their chances. The difference between winning and losing on the biggest day is the ability to score under the pressure of a final. The converted Tyrone chances were scored without much pressure on the shooter because they had freed themselves up for the opportunity. A lot of our chances missed was because there was pressure on the player shooting or the pressure of the big occasion played a part. Kerry looked red-hot favourites when they destroyed Tyrone in the league in a game that didn't count for anything, looked like they couldn't miss. Roll on to the semi final and Tyrone pressure and the bigger game, possibly some complacency too, and those chances taken became slimmer pickings."
.

Honestly g&r I think you are in denial. That shooting performance by Mayo wouldn't beat Roscommon in a Connacht semi never mind an AIF as we saw two years ago. Scores win games, while it must be said the opposition goalie making his usual gift of a goal in an AIF helps also - that probably finished Mayo on Sat.

Whatever about the pressure of an AIF which always exists had Mayo left the guts of 4-6 behind before RH's howler in 2016 replay for example. I think not.

I know most posters here don't understand bookmaking beyond 'you never see a poor bookie' but the fact that Kerry & Dublin are around 6/4 for 2022 and Mayo/Tyrone are circa 9/1 should be a clue as to how good a chance this year's final was for both teams. Those prices were easily predictable on Friday BTW."]One of us is in denial."].


Lets see which of us is in denial G&R, try answering the question I posed in the post you originally responded to.

I will rephrase it for the Mayo fans... Tyrone fans will (mostly) not accept the premise.

Assuming similar weather conditions and that the opposition haven't got RH on a free transfer....
If in an upcoming AIF Mayo go into a second half playing into the hill leading by two points and fail to score a point till the hour mark while kicking several bad wides will they win the match ?
Answers on a postcard.

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 225 - 16/09/2021 17:41:12    2381155

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "I never understand the mayo fans constantly praising the mayo team for being "gallant losers". "Ah sure it just wasn't our day" bla blah blah... until you lose this attitude you will win nothing. There comes a point where you just have to say ah here lads enough is enough. You should be outraged. Outraged at the team for not giving it their best shot AGAIN. Outraged at management for making poor decisions AGAIN. Outraged that Tyrone looked like the team that wanted it more. Just like the games with Dublin in 16 & 17, when the game was in the melting pot, Dublin refused to be beaten and just wanted it more. How the hell could any team want it more than mayo after all they've been through. I'm sorry lads but the time for taps on the back is over..... it's not good enough. The mayo team has consistently let you lot as fans down. It's time to be outraged. Less praise more outrage. The mayo team has become too comfortable with losing, and the fans congratulating them on losing doesn't help. 11 finals 0 wins in 30 years. There is not another sport in the world you will see a record even remotely close to that."
I hear no outrage from the Dublin fans re Dublin's puke football in the last few years. Mayo and Tyrone play attacking football unlike Dublin who are now a pale shadow of the Gilroy and Gavin teams. Their performances this year were painful to watch.
As for Mayo losing All Irelands, neither criticism nor praise will change their fortunes. They have a fair idea where they fall down in finals but they haven't worked out yet how to remedy it. Maybe they should get in touch with the Limerick hurlers and their management team.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1079 - 16/09/2021 17:42:26    2381156

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Replying To baire:  "I hear no outrage from the Dublin fans re Dublin's puke football in the last few years. Mayo and Tyrone play attacking football unlike Dublin who are now a pale shadow of the Gilroy and Gavin teams. Their performances this year were painful to watch.
As for Mayo losing All Irelands, neither criticism nor praise will change their fortunes. They have a fair idea where they fall down in finals but they haven't worked out yet how to remedy it. Maybe they should get in touch with the Limerick hurlers and their management team."
I challenge the Dublin poster who you have replied to to give examples where Mayo fans think it's grand and ok to be losing all these finals? He asks where is the outrage? There is plenty of angry and disappointed Mayo fans asking questions but that's all they can do. It's up to the players and management to come up with solutions.

Secondary he said Mayo have become comfortable with losing. Mayo win the majority of games we play in….look it up. I'll admit if finals record is shocking, bizzare and abnormal which probably the worst of any sports team anywhere.

But if the structures in Mayo are so bad, our coaching, tactics etc is so naive….what the hell are we doing in semi finals and finals every year for the last decade.??

Some might want to focus their attention on their own counties shortcomings. I can take heat from Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone, Donegal and even Galway with their history (although awful in the past 20 years I think they have huge potential to come strong soon.) but there are people taking pops at Mayo from counties who never have and never will do anything of note so p1ss off. Losing finals is a Mayo problem and has to be sorted from within.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10811 - 16/09/2021 18:38:34    2381166

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Replying To timmyhogan:  "
Replying To GreenandRed:  "[quote=timmyhogan:  ".

The better team won on the day but to say that "... Tyrone team who would have beaten any team put in front of them" is as far from the truth as its possible to get. Even with their flat performance that particular Mayo team (who are hardly world beaters) would have beaten them easily IF they had taken the majority of their chances.
If Monaghan (or Mayo or whoever) go into a second half leading by two points and fail to score a point till the hour mark while kicking several bad wides they are USUALLY coming home without the cup & probably on the end of a bad beating.
Tyrone won a handy All Ireland - Mayo left a handier one behind."
Sure most teams that lose finals could say they would have won if they took their chances. The difference between winning and losing on the biggest day is the ability to score under the pressure of a final. The converted Tyrone chances were scored without much pressure on the shooter because they had freed themselves up for the opportunity. A lot of our chances missed was because there was pressure on the player shooting or the pressure of the big occasion played a part. Kerry looked red-hot favourites when they destroyed Tyrone in the league in a game that didn't count for anything, looked like they couldn't miss. Roll on to the semi final and Tyrone pressure and the bigger game, possibly some complacency too, and those chances taken became slimmer pickings."
.

Honestly g&r I think you are in denial. That shooting performance by Mayo wouldn't beat Roscommon in a Connacht semi never mind an AIF as we saw two years ago. Scores win games, while it must be said the opposition goalie making his usual gift of a goal in an AIF helps also - that probably finished Mayo on Sat.

Whatever about the pressure of an AIF which always exists had Mayo left the guts of 4-6 behind before RH's howler in 2016 replay for example. I think not.

I know most posters here don't understand bookmaking beyond 'you never see a poor bookie' but the fact that Kerry & Dublin are around 6/4 for 2022 and Mayo/Tyrone are circa 9/1 should be a clue as to how good a chance this year's final was for both teams. Those prices were easily predictable on Friday BTW."]To be honest this year if I was from Kerry I would be kicking myself. Dublin, for whatever reason this year never looked like the team they have been in recent years. Tyrone did well in the end to get over the line this year with their 2 well taken goals in the final but watching the final this year, especially the third quarter when both Mayo and Tyrone seemed to constantly miss chances, myself and the company I was in were talking how Kerry would be kicking themselves. Kerry should probably have beaten Tyrone in the semi but Tyrone rode their luck a bit in that Kerry missed chances while they managed to nab 3 goals to win by a point after extra time.
Kerry in recent years, despite their talent, seem to have found a bad habit of losing matches they should win.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 975 - 16/09/2021 21:50:15    2381203

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Replying To timmyhogan:  "
Replying To GreenandRed:  "[quote=timmyhogan:  "[quote=GreenandRed:  "[quote=timmyhogan:  ".

The better team won on the day but to say that "... Tyrone team who would have beaten any team put in front of them" is as far from the truth as its possible to get. Even with their flat performance that particular Mayo team (who are hardly world beaters) would have beaten them easily IF they had taken the majority of their chances.
If Monaghan (or Mayo or whoever) go into a second half leading by two points and fail to score a point till the hour mark while kicking several bad wides they are USUALLY coming home without the cup & probably on the end of a bad beating.
Tyrone won a handy All Ireland - Mayo left a handier one behind."
Sure most teams that lose finals could say they would have won if they took their chances. The difference between winning and losing on the biggest day is the ability to score under the pressure of a final. The converted Tyrone chances were scored without much pressure on the shooter because they had freed themselves up for the opportunity. A lot of our chances missed was because there was pressure on the player shooting or the pressure of the big occasion played a part. Kerry looked red-hot favourites when they destroyed Tyrone in the league in a game that didn't count for anything, looked like they couldn't miss. Roll on to the semi final and Tyrone pressure and the bigger game, possibly some complacency too, and those chances taken became slimmer pickings."
.

Honestly g&r I think you are in denial. That shooting performance by Mayo wouldn't beat Roscommon in a Connacht semi never mind an AIF as we saw two years ago. Scores win games, while it must be said the opposition goalie making his usual gift of a goal in an AIF helps also - that probably finished Mayo on Sat.

Whatever about the pressure of an AIF which always exists had Mayo left the guts of 4-6 behind before RH's howler in 2016 replay for example. I think not.

I know most posters here don't understand bookmaking beyond 'you never see a poor bookie' but the fact that Kerry & Dublin are around 6/4 for 2022 and Mayo/Tyrone are circa 9/1 should be a clue as to how good a chance this year's final was for both teams. Those prices were easily predictable on Friday BTW."]One of us is in denial."].


Lets see which of us is in denial G&R, try answering the question I posed in the post you originally responded to.

I will rephrase it for the Mayo fans... Tyrone fans will (mostly) not accept the premise.

Assuming similar weather conditions and that the opposition haven't got RH on a free transfer....
If in an upcoming AIF Mayo go into a second half playing into the hill leading by two points and fail to score a point till the hour mark while kicking several bad wides will they win the match ?
Answers on a postcard."]Timmy, Whatever point you are trying to make doesn't seem to be getting any traction..

As I said before, Tyrone scored 2 goals in the second half playing into Hill 16 before they registered their points... So not sure why this no point till the 60th minute is relevant.. Its a final both teams were edgy.. Second half reminded me off the 2011 final where both were edgy.. never heard anything about a handy AI then

When Tyrone scored the goals they could absorb and hit on the break, they didn't need to score 5/6 points (granted they missed 3/4 chances for points over the second half)

Anyway game done and dusted, Tyrone will head back to the top of the mountain and try to work on the shooting, and Mayo will head to the big Mushroom house to do the same

conman1282 (Tyrone) - Posts: 86 - 17/09/2021 10:08:03    2381256

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "
Replying To timmyhogan:  "[quote=GreenandRed:  "[quote=timmyhogan:  ".

The better team won on the day but to say that "... Tyrone team who would have beaten any team put in front of them" is as far from the truth as its possible to get. Even with their flat performance that particular Mayo team (who are hardly world beaters) would have beaten them easily IF they had taken the majority of their chances.
If Monaghan (or Mayo or whoever) go into a second half leading by two points and fail to score a point till the hour mark while kicking several bad wides they are USUALLY coming home without the cup & probably on the end of a bad beating.
Tyrone won a handy All Ireland - Mayo left a handier one behind."
Sure most teams that lose finals could say they would have won if they took their chances. The difference between winning and losing on the biggest day is the ability to score under the pressure of a final. The converted Tyrone chances were scored without much pressure on the shooter because they had freed themselves up for the opportunity. A lot of our chances missed was because there was pressure on the player shooting or the pressure of the big occasion played a part. Kerry looked red-hot favourites when they destroyed Tyrone in the league in a game that didn't count for anything, looked like they couldn't miss. Roll on to the semi final and Tyrone pressure and the bigger game, possibly some complacency too, and those chances taken became slimmer pickings."
.

Honestly g&r I think you are in denial. That shooting performance by Mayo wouldn't beat Roscommon in a Connacht semi never mind an AIF as we saw two years ago. Scores win games, while it must be said the opposition goalie making his usual gift of a goal in an AIF helps also - that probably finished Mayo on Sat.

Whatever about the pressure of an AIF which always exists had Mayo left the guts of 4-6 behind before RH's howler in 2016 replay for example. I think not.

I know most posters here don't understand bookmaking beyond 'you never see a poor bookie' but the fact that Kerry & Dublin are around 6/4 for 2022 and Mayo/Tyrone are circa 9/1 should be a clue as to how good a chance this year's final was for both teams. Those prices were easily predictable on Friday BTW."]To be honest this year if I was from Kerry I would be kicking myself. Dublin, for whatever reason this year never looked like the team they have been in recent years. Tyrone did well in the end to get over the line this year with their 2 well taken goals in the final but watching the final this year, especially the third quarter when both Mayo and Tyrone seemed to constantly miss chances, myself and the company I was in were talking how Kerry would be kicking themselves. Kerry should probably have beaten Tyrone in the semi but Tyrone rode their luck a bit in that Kerry missed chances while they managed to nab 3 goals to win by a point after extra time.
Kerry in recent years, despite their talent, seem to have found a bad habit of losing matches they should win."]Is that not a self contradictory statement? If they should win these matches why havent they? What are you basing the statement that they should be winning these games on? League form? They havent beaten any team of note in the championship this decade. It looks to me that David Clifford aside they have forwards who can take their scores when not under any undue pressure but that these lads are found wanting when put under pressure by top intercounty defenses playing at championship intensity. When you consider that aside from Tyrone, all of Monaghan, Donegal, Dublin and Mayo have very good championship defenses how can you make the case for Kerry kicking themselves?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3204 - 17/09/2021 10:11:46    2381257

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There was the famous Donal Vaughan red cars a couple of years ago. Sadly Mayo find a way to opt out of glory.

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1110 - 17/09/2021 10:18:49    2381261

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Not good enough, simple as, they can't handle the pressure, how many times have the bottled it now when the games where there to be won?

Rolo99 (Tyrone) - Posts: 19 - 17/09/2021 11:27:43    2381277

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Replying To maroondiesel:  "There was the famous Donal Vaughan red cars a couple of years ago. Sadly Mayo find a way to opt out of glory."
He should never have bought the red car.

Was just asking for trouble all right.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1339 - 17/09/2021 12:04:59    2381283

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Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To bdbuddah:  "[quote=timmyhogan:  "[quote=GreenandRed:  "[quote=timmyhogan:  ".

The better team won on the day but to say that "... Tyrone team who would have beaten any team put in front of them" is as far from the truth as its possible to get. Even with their flat performance that particular Mayo team (who are hardly world beaters) would have beaten them easily IF they had taken the majority of their chances.
If Monaghan (or Mayo or whoever) go into a second half leading by two points and fail to score a point till the hour mark while kicking several bad wides they are USUALLY coming home without the cup & probably on the end of a bad beating.
Tyrone won a handy All Ireland - Mayo left a handier one behind."
Sure most teams that lose finals could say they would have won if they took their chances. The difference between winning and losing on the biggest day is the ability to score under the pressure of a final. The converted Tyrone chances were scored without much pressure on the shooter because they had freed themselves up for the opportunity. A lot of our chances missed was because there was pressure on the player shooting or the pressure of the big occasion played a part. Kerry looked red-hot favourites when they destroyed Tyrone in the league in a game that didn't count for anything, looked like they couldn't miss. Roll on to the semi final and Tyrone pressure and the bigger game, possibly some complacency too, and those chances taken became slimmer pickings."
.

Honestly g&r I think you are in denial. That shooting performance by Mayo wouldn't beat Roscommon in a Connacht semi never mind an AIF as we saw two years ago. Scores win games, while it must be said the opposition goalie making his usual gift of a goal in an AIF helps also - that probably finished Mayo on Sat.

Whatever about the pressure of an AIF which always exists had Mayo left the guts of 4-6 behind before RH's howler in 2016 replay for example. I think not.

I know most posters here don't understand bookmaking beyond 'you never see a poor bookie' but the fact that Kerry & Dublin are around 6/4 for 2022 and Mayo/Tyrone are circa 9/1 should be a clue as to how good a chance this year's final was for both teams. Those prices were easily predictable on Friday BTW."]To be honest this year if I was from Kerry I would be kicking myself. Dublin, for whatever reason this year never looked like the team they have been in recent years. Tyrone did well in the end to get over the line this year with their 2 well taken goals in the final but watching the final this year, especially the third quarter when both Mayo and Tyrone seemed to constantly miss chances, myself and the company I was in were talking how Kerry would be kicking themselves. Kerry should probably have beaten Tyrone in the semi but Tyrone rode their luck a bit in that Kerry missed chances while they managed to nab 3 goals to win by a point after extra time.
Kerry in recent years, despite their talent, seem to have found a bad habit of losing matches they should win."]Is that not a self contradictory statement? If they should win these matches why havent they? What are you basing the statement that they should be winning these games on? League form? They havent beaten any team of note in the championship this decade. It looks to me that David Clifford aside they have forwards who can take their scores when not under any undue pressure but that these lads are found wanting when put under pressure by top intercounty defenses playing at championship intensity. When you consider that aside from Tyrone, all of Monaghan, Donegal, Dublin and Mayo have very good championship defenses how can you make the case for Kerry kicking themselves?"]Because Kerry missed chances against Tyrone, looked to be heading for victory but conceded a bad late goal near the end of normal time and Tyrone got a lot of fortune with their extra time goal which was what ultimately won the match (they won by 1 point).
Most teams in this situation, who have had most of the play but lose by a point based on the opposition hitting you for goals would feel that they left a match behind them.
I'm not saying this to take away from Tyrone, they showed balls to come through a match against a top team like Kerry, I'm was just looking at this year's championship from how I think I would feel if I was from Kerry.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 975 - 17/09/2021 12:36:53    2381290

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Tyrone can't be blamed for winning games played on their terms. Kerry certainly have been kicking themselves and it's no disrespect to Tyrone to point out the obvious. Kerry played with one eye on the final and the tactics they adopted enabled Tyrone to play their own game. I think the Kerry lads thought they'd find a way somehow but instead they found a wall and kept revisiting it.

In Mayo we're kicking ourselves for doing the same thing and fluffing so many chances. Even though the 4 week break had Mayo fresh for the final, the first two weeks would have been leaning in the direction of a game against Kerry given the circumstances leading into the semi-final. As a result what the team brought to the final seemed like a work in progress rather than a well worked, coherent game plan. The boring possession game the Dubs evolved is effective to counter how Tyrone like to play, but getting to be that boring takes a lot of time/practice, a lot more than the two weeks Mayo had to work with.

Will be interesting to see how Tyrone fares against the Dubs in a knockout game should they meet in 2022. It'll be surprising if the Dubs don't themselves tweak the way they've been playing since 2018. No one likes it and I can't imagine it's much fun for the players either.

The bookies see 2021 as a glitch, that's obvious.

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2451 - 17/09/2021 17:04:02    2381364

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Replying To Pericles:  "Tyrone can't be blamed for winning games played on their terms. Kerry certainly have been kicking themselves and it's no disrespect to Tyrone to point out the obvious. Kerry played with one eye on the final and the tactics they adopted enabled Tyrone to play their own game. I think the Kerry lads thought they'd find a way somehow but instead they found a wall and kept revisiting it.

In Mayo we're kicking ourselves for doing the same thing and fluffing so many chances. Even though the 4 week break had Mayo fresh for the final, the first two weeks would have been leaning in the direction of a game against Kerry given the circumstances leading into the semi-final. As a result what the team brought to the final seemed like a work in progress rather than a well worked, coherent game plan. The boring possession game the Dubs evolved is effective to counter how Tyrone like to play, but getting to be that boring takes a lot of time/practice, a lot more than the two weeks Mayo had to work with.

Will be interesting to see how Tyrone fares against the Dubs in a knockout game should they meet in 2022. It'll be surprising if the Dubs don't themselves tweak the way they've been playing since 2018. No one likes it and I can't imagine it's much fun for the players either.

The bookies see 2021 as a glitch, that's obvious."
If the dubs do tweak their game plan it'll be with winning in mind, whether the fans enjoy watching it or the players enjoy playing it won't even enter the conversation.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 936 - 17/09/2021 19:26:40    2381383

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Replying To Pericles:  "Tyrone can't be blamed for winning games played on their terms. Kerry certainly have been kicking themselves and it's no disrespect to Tyrone to point out the obvious. Kerry played with one eye on the final and the tactics they adopted enabled Tyrone to play their own game. I think the Kerry lads thought they'd find a way somehow but instead they found a wall and kept revisiting it.

In Mayo we're kicking ourselves for doing the same thing and fluffing so many chances. Even though the 4 week break had Mayo fresh for the final, the first two weeks would have been leaning in the direction of a game against Kerry given the circumstances leading into the semi-final. As a result what the team brought to the final seemed like a work in progress rather than a well worked, coherent game plan. The boring possession game the Dubs evolved is effective to counter how Tyrone like to play, but getting to be that boring takes a lot of time/practice, a lot more than the two weeks Mayo had to work with.

Will be interesting to see how Tyrone fares against the Dubs in a knockout game should they meet in 2022. It'll be surprising if the Dubs don't themselves tweak the way they've been playing since 2018. No one likes it and I can't imagine it's much fun for the players either.

The bookies see 2021 as a glitch, that's obvious."
I can read your script and between the lines, so -

Why Mayo Cant Win An All-Ireland ?, is a provocative thread & title, why not ask for example, why can't Kildare, Monaghan, Cavan, Laois, Roscommon, etc, etc, etc, reach an all Ireland final at least once every 10 years let alone win one, or why can't Fermanagh or Wicklow win at least one provincial senior title, just one, or why can't Carlow get out of div.4, why can't Kilkenny field a Senior football team at least for the National football league, why can't Westmeath stake a claim on being the second best team in Leinster and then challenge the best for a Leinster title every year (ish)?

Why is it that div.4 counties and indeed more often than not div.3 counties can say before a ball is kicked that televised games will not be applicable to them,?

Why is it that Mayo have to carry the can for all other counties to learn from. Why is it that Mayo as a county breed lads to become household names for some of us to ridicule and criticize as if they are professional footballers, with no families and are stand alone creatures on mega, mega, salaries.

Why can't Leitrim win a Connaught senior football title every 2nd or 3rd year and then go on and contest an All Ireland Senior Football Title.?

Why not,?
all of this would take some pressure off Mayo.
Why do I even bother with all this ***p.??

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2463 - 17/09/2021 19:49:19    2381389

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Replying To supersub15:  "I can read your script and between the lines, so -

Why Mayo Cant Win An All-Ireland ?, is a provocative thread & title, why not ask for example, why can't Kildare, Monaghan, Cavan, Laois, Roscommon, etc, etc, etc, reach an all Ireland final at least once every 10 years let alone win one, or why can't Fermanagh or Wicklow win at least one provincial senior title, just one, or why can't Carlow get out of div.4, why can't Kilkenny field a Senior football team at least for the National football league, why can't Westmeath stake a claim on being the second best team in Leinster and then challenge the best for a Leinster title every year (ish)?

Why is it that div.4 counties and indeed more often than not div.3 counties can say before a ball is kicked that televised games will not be applicable to them,?

Why is it that Mayo have to carry the can for all other counties to learn from. Why is it that Mayo as a county breed lads to become household names for some of us to ridicule and criticize as if they are professional footballers, with no families and are stand alone creatures on mega, mega, salaries.

Why can't Leitrim win a Connaught senior football title every 2nd or 3rd year and then go on and contest an All Ireland Senior Football Title.?

Why not,?
all of this would take some pressure off Mayo.
Why do I even bother with all this ***p.??"
Because every sport on earth has its perpetual also rans, and its basic human nature that if you're not as good as your competitors you won't get the same level of attention from fans or the media, but I doubt there is a team, or individual, anywhere in world sport with a record of getting to so many finals without winning one.
It's be far sillier if people didn't talk about it really.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 936 - 17/09/2021 20:48:52    2381396

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