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Replying To Whammo86: "Yeah I mean for me the qualifiers aren't as bad as some make out. If a team loses twice they don't really deserve to be All Ireland champions any. If a team is from a strong province they have a chance of proving their quality at an All Ireland level. The big problem is the discrepancy in terms of quality and quantity between provinces. 7 of 11 Leinster teams entering round 1 of the qualifiers and 4 rounds away from the All Ireland is tough compared to where Connacht and Munster teams enter. In Connacht there's a guarantee of a weaker side of the draw where a couple of wins against division 4 teams sees a team into an All Ireland round 4. Flattening the All Ireland and reducing the importance of the Provincials goes some way to fixing some of the issues in my mind. The big problem with it is that maybe a team's season being over before June could be a bit early." "The big problem with it is that maybe a team's season being over before June could be a bit early." That's the nature of the beast. You can't keep bad teams in a competition beyond their expiry date, or keep propping them up! foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2138 - 24/09/2021 14:48:29 2382761 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "Play the National League in parallel with the Provincials and have both used for seeding the All Ireland. Let's say the All Ireland final is 24th July, you could have the following calendar. Feb 27th NFL round 1 Mar 6th NFL round 2 Mar 13th Provincial Preliminary round Mar 20th Break Mar 27th NFL round 3 April 3rd NFL round 4 April 10th Provincial Quarterfinals April 17th Break April 24th NFL round 5 May 1st NFL round 6 May 8th Provincial semifinals May 15th Break May 22nd NFL round 7 May 29th Provincial finals and AI round 1 June 5th Break June 12th AI round 2 (last 24) June 19th AI round 3 (last 16) June 26th Break July 3rd AI quarterfinals July 10th AI semifinals July 17th Break July 24th AI Final The league is given more importance and given a better placement in the season. 8 teams get byes to AI round 3, Provincial champions and 4 others from league. 16 teams get byes to AI round 2, 8 Provincial finalists plus 8 others from league. I'd seed the quarterfinals too to make sure Provincial champions or top 4 from league can't meet at that stage." That's good - what more does the GAA or it's membership want ? Colm Collins (Clare Manager) thinks Ulster is holding back reform (link below) https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40705058.html In hurling, we have the great Munster Championship (a la 2019 round robin style) and another group for the best of the Rest (misnamed Leinster). Why not do similar for football - Ulster groups (5 & 4) and best of the Rest (5 & 4). Top 2 from each to AI Series - with 4 winners paired up with double chance (incl Ulster Final, winners to AI SFs, losers to AI QFs). The 4 2nds to KO, 2 winners to AI QFs. omahant (USA) - Posts: 3100 - 25/09/2021 17:10:11 2382886 Link
And, for a longer group phase between Prov Championships and AI Series (in lieu of league), merge the 5 in Ulster or Rest with the 4 in the other (all play 8 matches combined). Then top 4 from each 9 to AI Series (again Aussie AFL style, top 2 in each get back door). Below these 18 teams, Tier 2 could have a group of 7 play the other 7. Again, top 8 of 14 to Aussie AFL style playoffs - 2 Finalists go up to Tier 1 Rest for following year. omahant (USA) - Posts: 3100 - 25/09/2021 18:06:56 2382894 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "Yeah I mean for me the qualifiers aren't as bad as some make out. If a team loses twice they don't really deserve to be All Ireland champions any. If a team is from a strong province they have a chance of proving their quality at an All Ireland level. The big problem is the discrepancy in terms of quality and quantity between provinces. 7 of 11 Leinster teams entering round 1 of the qualifiers and 4 rounds away from the All Ireland is tough compared to where Connacht and Munster teams enter. In Connacht there's a guarantee of a weaker side of the draw where a couple of wins against division 4 teams sees a team into an All Ireland round 4. Flattening the All Ireland and reducing the importance of the Provincials goes some way to fixing some of the issues in my mind. The big problem with it is that maybe a team's season being over before June could be a bit early." I'd play the provincials first. Then counties know how many places are up for grabs in League. Prov champs and top 4 can be kept apart. Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 746 - 25/09/2021 18:08:19 2382895 Link
Replying To omahant: "That's good - what more does the GAA or it's membership want ? Colm Collins (Clare Manager) thinks Ulster is holding back reform (link below) https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40705058.html In hurling, we have the great Munster Championship (a la 2019 round robin style) and another group for the best of the Rest (misnamed Leinster). Why not do similar for football - Ulster groups (5 & 4) and best of the Rest (5 & 4). Top 2 from each to AI Series - with 4 winners paired up with double chance (incl Ulster Final, winners to AI SFs, losers to AI QFs). The 4 2nds to KO, 2 winners to AI QFs." I think the closest you could do would be championship 1 North and Championship 1 South. You can't really have 1 Province with 9 teams (plenty of them not even top teams) at the same level as the 3 other provinces combined. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4416 - 25/09/2021 18:20:38 2382900 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "I think the closest you could do would be championship 1 North and Championship 1 South. You can't really have 1 Province with 9 teams (plenty of them not even top teams) at the same level as the 3 other provinces combined." That's a fair point - maybe somewhat proportionate then - still Ulster 4 of 9, but Rest 12 of 23 (or fairer, 4+10+2 wild) to AI Rd of 16 - or for greater incentive, I prefer a double-size AFL-style 16 - Ulster Finalists and Rest 6 to double chance. omahant (USA) - Posts: 3100 - 25/09/2021 20:28:21 2382913 Link
Brian McAvoy would need me somehow to keep all Ulster 9 in competition for the Anglo Celt Cup (not that he alone should be running the show). omahant (USA) - Posts: 3100 - 25/09/2021 20:31:12 2382915 Link
Replying To omahant: "Brian McAvoy would need me somehow to keep all Ulster 9 in competition for the Anglo Celt Cup (not that he alone should be running the show)." I really do think we should just keep the football provincial competitions as is. Straight knockout really is the best for them. If they have to be linked to the AI then they should be less important than they are now. There's lots of ways to do that. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4416 - 25/09/2021 21:08:40 2382930 Link
Interesting piece on the subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alwNmGkXWv8 Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1467 - 27/09/2021 09:35:41 2383110 Link
Replying To Ban: "Interesting piece on the subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alwNmGkXWv8" Interesting take by Tony McEntee to summarize he's in favour of early provincials and the league based All Ireland format and mentions from the Sligo players perspective this would be better. It seems to me there's a difference between what the Sligo Players want to see and what the general public want to see. brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 400 - 27/09/2021 12:38:02 2383155 Link
Replying To brianb: "Interesting take by Tony McEntee to summarize he's in favour of early provincials and the league based All Ireland format and mentions from the Sligo players perspective this would be better. It seems to me there's a difference between what the Sligo Players want to see and what the general public want to see." What part of the general public? Dedicated GAA fans or the casual viewer who will sit down and watch any decent game. Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 746 - 27/09/2021 17:43:38 2383213 Link
Another interesting piece from Off The Ball on the subject - Podge Collins this time.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFpg5_GtobU Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1467 - 28/09/2021 11:01:39 2383281 Link
Replying To brianb: "Interesting take by Tony McEntee to summarize he's in favour of early provincials and the league based All Ireland format and mentions from the Sligo players perspective this would be better. It seems to me there's a difference between what the Sligo Players want to see and what the general public want to see." Yeah there were a few other interesting things too. It was far from unanimous what the players wanted and I think that's a big theme of this process, everyone has their own ideas around how things should look and why. A financial package is being put forward for the Provinces as a sweetener. It's a very solid point they made about early in the season being not a bad slot for provincial championships with fans hungry for whatever action they can get. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4416 - 28/09/2021 12:45:51 2383314 Link
Don't know why so many people want to complicate a simple competition. Play provincials and then straight open draw 32 knockout for All -Ireland. Either that or bring back qualifiers, some great matches to look forward to. Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2249 - 28/09/2021 13:08:43 2383321 Link
If they go to this league system how will the provincials have relevance anymore? what is the point of playing the Ulster Championship in the Spring when winning it doesn't progress you for a chance at the All ireland? Sounds like a bloody mess they are proposing. Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3093 - 28/09/2021 14:21:22 2383340 Link
Replying To Saynothing: "Don't know why so many people want to complicate a simple competition. Play provincials and then straight open draw 32 knockout for All -Ireland. Either that or bring back qualifiers, some great matches to look forward to." Your proposal guarantees teams 2 matches every year! For some Counties, this will be a reality. Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1467 - 28/09/2021 14:25:13 2383343 Link
Replying To Tirchonaill1: "If they go to this league system how will the provincials have relevance anymore? what is the point of playing the Ulster Championship in the Spring when winning it doesn't progress you for a chance at the All ireland? Sounds like a bloody mess they are proposing." The point would be to win the ulster championship. Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 28/09/2021 15:12:05 2383368 Link
Replying To Tirchonaill1: "If they go to this league system how will the provincials have relevance anymore? what is the point of playing the Ulster Championship in the Spring when winning it doesn't progress you for a chance at the All ireland? Sounds like a bloody mess they are proposing." To be fair Ulster counties have complained for years about our more difficult pathway to the All Ireland series, now it's being equalised it seems like the Ulster council is a big opposer of change. We can't have our cake and eat it. That being said I do think the proposals tabled are actually worse than a qualifiers minus super 8s system. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4416 - 28/09/2021 15:45:13 2383377 Link
Replying To Tirchonaill1: "If they go to this league system how will the provincials have relevance anymore? what is the point of playing the Ulster Championship in the Spring when winning it doesn't progress you for a chance at the All ireland? Sounds like a bloody mess they are proposing." Ulster is the only decent one of the 4. Time to move on. Or link both Provincials and League to Championship. Provincials should be played first. League is the best competition for most counties and it is played in rubbish weather. Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 746 - 28/09/2021 15:50:26 2383378 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "Yeah there were a few other interesting things too. It was far from unanimous what the players wanted and I think that's a big theme of this process, everyone has their own ideas around how things should look and why. A financial package is being put forward for the Provinces as a sweetener. It's a very solid point they made about early in the season being not a bad slot for provincial championships with fans hungry for whatever action they can get." Yeah - fans hungry for whatever action they can get. I've been to a fair few O'Byrne cup games over the years! A big take away from the interview for me was along the lines that in the current system the best play the best all the time making it difficult to break through. We've setup the structures right now for the top teams to play the top teams many times - in the league; in the super 8's and then the knockout. Its increasingly becoming a glass ceiling for teams to break through. This is disheartening for teams so we need to change the structure?? For 14/16 Division 3 & 4 teams it just means the qualifiers are gone and there is no chance to play any of the Division 1/2 teams outside of provisional games that will quickly lose importance. Its almost the definition of ignore the problem and it will go away. I think the solution is an All Ireland organized by tiers with proper promotion / relegation between them. This gives every team a chance of silverware and will allow teams to build over time towards the top. If Monaghan can reach and stay in the top division there's no reason why Sligo can't. In Short I can see the logic in using the league to seed the All Ireland - but I can't see the logic in solely using the league and I can't see the logic in parachuting Division 3/4 teams into the top tier. The provincial championships will become less important and over time the importance could disappear completely. I liked your idea of playing the provincial championships along side the league with spaces from both in the All Ireland. brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 400 - 28/09/2021 16:13:50 2383387 Link